Hi,

I realise that this topic has been extensively covered elsewhere, and
so I apoligise for bringing it up again... I have attempted to wire up
the fan I have to the light circuit. It is a JB arrangement and the JB
in question is the last in the loop. Therefore, the cables I have
coming in/out of the box a
1) Circuit Cable
2) Switch Cable
3) Fan Cable (triple+earth)
4) Cable to lights

I have connected the cables up as follows:
- Red from Circuit Cable, Fan Cable and Switch Cable
- Yellow from Fan Cable, Red from Cable to Lights and Black from
Switch Cable
- Black from Circuit Cable and Cable to Lights and Blue from Fan Cable
- All earths

The result I get is that when the lights are off, the fan is on. When
I turn the lights on, the fan stays on until the timer decides to turn
it off. I am therefore thinking that there is something wrong with the
fan, but there could also quite easily be something wrong iwth my
wiring :-). Is there an easy remedy for this, or do I need to send the
fan back?

Cheers

Tim

On 12 Mar 2004 14:36:04 -0800, in uk.d-i-y (Timothy
Hill) strung together this:

Hi,

I realise that this topic has been extensively covered elsewhere, and
so I apoligise for bringing it up again... I have attempted to wire up
the fan I have to the light circuit. It is a JB arrangement and the JB
in question is the last in the loop. Therefore, the cables I have
coming in/out of the box a
1) Circuit Cable
2) Switch Cable
3) Fan Cable (triple+earth)
4) Cable to lights

I have connected the cables up as follows:
- Red from Circuit Cable, Fan Cable and Switch Cable
- Yellow from Fan Cable, Red from Cable to Lights and Black from
Switch Cable
- Black from Circuit Cable and Cable to Lights and Blue from Fan Cable
- All earths

The result I get is that when the lights are off, the fan is on. When
I turn the lights on, the fan stays on until the timer decides to turn
it off. I am therefore thinking that there is something wrong with the
fan, but there could also quite easily be something wrong iwth my
wiring :-). Is there an easy remedy for this, or do I need to send the
fan back?

Could be that the yellow and red are the wrong way round in the fan,
but then that still doesn't quite explain it.
Assuming all your wiring is correct then it sounds like a duff PCB on
the fan.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

(Lurch) wrote in message ...
Could be that the yellow and red are the wrong way round in the fan,
but then that still doesn't quite explain it.
Assuming all your wiring is correct then it sounds like a duff PCB on
the fan.

Thought about that and tried switch the Red and Yellow over. The
result was that the fan was on when the light was off and when you
switched the lights on, the fan went off - no timer. Can this be fixed
by some good old home tinkering?

"Timothy Hill" wrote in message
om...
(Lurch) wrote in message
...
Could be that the yellow and red are the wrong way round in the fan,
but then that still doesn't quite explain it.
Assuming all your wiring is correct then it sounds like a duff PCB on
the fan.

Thought about that and tried switch the Red and Yellow over. The
result was that the fan was on when the light was off and when you
switched the lights on, the fan went off - no timer. Can this be fixed
by some good old home tinkering?

It sounds like a wiring fault. Are you sure that the cables that go to the
light and lightswitch are correctly identified? If you have mixed the two up
then the fan would work as you described. Taking the bulb out when the
lights are off should let the fan do its timer run and then stop to show
this is the case. It would also mean that you are switching the neutral not
the live for the lights.


--
Adam

"Timothy Hill" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

I realise that this topic has been extensively covered elsewhere, and
so I apoligise for bringing it up again... I have attempted to wire up
the fan I have to the light circuit. It is a JB arrangement and the JB
in question is the last in the loop. Therefore, the cables I have
coming in/out of the box a
1) Circuit Cable
2) Switch Cable
3) Fan Cable (triple+earth)
4) Cable to lights

I have connected the cables up as follows:
- Red from Circuit Cable, Fan Cable and Switch Cable
- Yellow from Fan Cable, Red from Cable to Lights and Black from
Switch Cable
- Black from Circuit Cable and Cable to Lights and Blue from Fan Cable
- All earths

The result I get is that when the lights are off, the fan is on. When
I turn the lights on, the fan stays on until the timer decides to turn
it off. I am therefore thinking that there is something wrong with the
fan, but there could also quite easily be something wrong iwth my
wiring :-). Is there an easy remedy for this, or do I need to send the
fan back?

Cheers

Tim

Sounds to me that it is faulty coz the fan should stay on when both red and
yellow are live.

I also recommend a triple pole "Fan switch" between junction box and fan so
this can be safely isolated without having to disconnect all the lighting
circuit.

In uk.d-i-y, Timothy Hill wrote:
Hi,


[ ... tales of woe regarding apparently-correct wiring of PermLive,
SwitchedLive, N, and E snipped ... ]

There are too many things which could be causing your problem to make
a diagnosis-in-place possible (for exampule, your lighting circuit
might have its L & N reversed). Given that, I'd want to do more systematic
and separated fault-finding: so, disconnect the fan entirely, and satisfy
yourself that the lighting JB really has the voltages we expect, by
measuring voltages with respect to its earth terminal using a multimeter.
There should be NADI (near-as-damn-it) 0V on the neutral terminal (Black from
Circuit Cable + Black to Lights), though an all-electronic meter might show
a significantly higher fooled-you voltage through stray pickup from close-by
lives, which will disappear if you put even a 15W pygmy bulb or similar
tiny load across the alleged voltage. There should be 240V permanently on the
permanent live (your 'Red from Circ Cable & Switch Cable' terminal), and
NADI 0V on the switched live (Red from Cable To Lights & Black from Switch
Cable) when the lightswitch is Off, and 240V when the switch is On. (If you
don't get this pattern of behaviour, e.g. finding the black terminal is
240V permanently, your lighting circuit indeed has a L-N reversal somewhere
along the way - if you're "lucky" it's all the way back at the consumer
unit and all the lights are L-N swapped, more likely though is to find a
miswired JB or ceiling rose somewhere between CU and the end you're working
on. If no consistent voltage with ref to the E terminal, dodgy E in the
lighting circuit (not uncommon) - needs fixing first! then retest. And so
on...)

Having established that the supply side is OK, with the fan off the
wall/ceiling (on the 'bench', aka kitchen table ;-) you can then (paying
due care to safe working practices, i.e. at least use terminal strip
('chocolate block') connectors for your test wiring, not sort-of-twisted
together!) systematically test your fan: E to E, N to N stay in place; now
Live to its Perm-Live terminal only should leave the fan off, and then
a pulsed/switchable Live feed to its control terminal should make it
come on when the switch contact is made, and stay running for the preset
time after the control terminal Live is removed/switched off. If it
doesn't behave that way, you've shown beyond doubt that the fan is faulty,
and can take it back for a new one. (Test the new one on the 'bench' when
you get it, to keep Sod & Murphy off your back in the case of a fault with
the whole batch of fans your shop is supplying ;-)

HTH - Stefek

Hi,

Thanks for your replies :-) After spending many an hour trying to work
this out, I finally cracked it. Well, what I have done works anyhow...
The problem appears to be that the terminals on the fan have been
labelled incorrectly, and after swapping the Live and Neutral over
coming into the fan, works as expected. The reason I think it is a
problem on the Fan side of things is due to swapping the 'Live' and
'Neutral' coming into the final JB from the circuit didn't have much
of an effect... So, the result of this is a working fan and a wasted
weekend :-/

Cheers

Tim