"tim..." wrote in message
...


"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 May 2021 13:31:21 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

processing veggies to look like, taste like, etc meat is just daft

Why, how is it impacting you?

because it pushes up the price of these food items at the shops

Now that may not be an immediate threat to me, but it makes the population
more accepting of this higher price point for individual processed meals
meaning that manufactures can artificially increase prices of other
processed meals. -

Or worse, encourage Governments to add a "non veggie" sin-tax to other
food groups on the bogus reasoning that they complete "unfairly" with more
sustainable veggie products.

That doesn't happen with the meat being discussed.

it should be banned IMHO

Because?

see above

Useless.

On Sun, 9 May 2021 18:14:56 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

I was wondering if they have actually made vegan meat taste of meat and not
cardboard yet.

Yes ... but what's the need to only eat things that taste like burnt
animal flesh ... oh yes, the dopamine you are now addicted to! ;-(

If you like a burger, treat yourself to something like a 'No Bull
Burger' and add what you normally add to a burger (we add fried onion,
melted scheese, mushroom, relish etc) and tell me if that doesn't give
you the same sort of pleasure you would get from the same range of
things in a meat burger.

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 10 May 2021 05:39:28 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 09/05/2021 21:02, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 18:14:56 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

I was wondering if they have actually made vegan meat taste of meat and not
cardboard yet.

Yes ... but what's the need to only eat things that taste like burnt
animal flesh ... oh yes, the dopamine you are now addicted to! ;-(

Most of us don't burn meat. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong?

If you like a burger, treat yourself to something like a 'No Bull
Burger' and add what you normally add to a burger (we add fried onion,
melted scheese, mushroom, relish etc) and tell me if that doesn't give
you the same sort of pleasure you would get from the same range of
things in a meat burger.

I haven't tried that specific make, but substitute meat rarely has the
same texture or taste of meat.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 00:43:27 +0100, Fredxx
wrote:

On 09/05/2021 21:02, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 18:14:56 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

I was wondering if they have actually made vegan meat taste of meat and not
cardboard yet.

Yes ... but what's the need to only eat things that taste like burnt
animal flesh ... oh yes, the dopamine you are now addicted to! ;-(

Most of us don't burn meat. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong?

If you like a burger, treat yourself to something like a 'No Bull
Burger' and add what you normally add to a burger (we add fried onion,
melted scheese, mushroom, relish etc) and tell me if that doesn't give
you the same sort of pleasure you would get from the same range of
things in a meat burger.

I haven't tried that specific make, but substitute meat rarely has the
same texture or taste of meat.

Quorn chunks come pretty close
--

Mike

On Mon, 10 May 2021 08:21:06 +0100, Mike Halmarack
wrote:

snip

I haven't tried that specific make, but substitute meat rarely has the
same texture or taste of meat.

Quorn chunks come pretty close

Quite, and this simply typifies this blinkered / backward attitude
about what we eat.

It's like the British going to Spain and only wanting to eat fish and
chips, because that's all they are used to, or the old folk who
wouldn't even try a curry, lasagne or spag bol because it's 'all
foreign muck', compared with the meat and two veg they have every day
.... of their sad and unadventurous / closed minded lives.

If you happen to be born into an environment (parents / culture /
circumstances) or culture / religion where you don't drink milk after
you wean (as nature intended), offer them some milk and they would
think you were weird.

'Sorry, I'm a big boy now and don't particularly want the growth fluid
meant for a baby, and especially one from a completely different
species'!

Now, if you didn't want to eat your cereal dry or tea / coffle black
and didn't like them with just water or orange juice, the chances are
you would like them with any one of the white liquids they make from
plants.

Like industrial Oat milk.
Take oats and water, blend, sieve, use.

Industrial Cows milk (the milk from a cow, for a cow, not the output
of a machine or chemical process, like spirits, tea or cola).

Artificially extract semen from bull, often by using an anal electro
stimulator.
Take stolen semen and after putting your whole arm up a cows rectum to
manipulate her cervix, inject bull semen in her.
Wait while cow carries calf to birth.

Once born, if it's male:
a) Take calf and shoot him in the head then cut his throat.
b) Keep him in small pen for a few months then shoot him in the head
and cut his throat. Chop into bits and sell the flesh to humans who
can't consume it as it is. (Any supplied to carnivores can be eaten as
it is).

If she's female, either shoot her in the head or keep her to enslave
her like her mother for 7 years before shooting her in the head and
cutting her throat.

For the mother cow in the meantime, you make her make and carry (by
many years of exploitation) 10x more milk than she would naturally,
until she's no longer able to produce sufficient milk (no longer
financially viable as a milk producing machine) then shoot her in the
head and cut her throat.

https://ibb.co/87pYK5S

Cheers, T i m

On 10/05/2021 10:22, T i m wrote:

If you happen to be born into an environment (parents / culture /
circumstances) or culture / religion where you don't drink milk after
you wean (as nature intended), offer them some milk and they would
think you were weird.

Now, if you didn't want to eat your cereal dry or tea / coffle black
and didn't like them with just water or orange juice, the chances are
you would like them with any one of the white liquids they make from
plants.

You are running campaign to brow-beat others into joining your
evangelism for veganism, but you don't explain why it is that you have
to substitute cow's milk with oat milk. Why do you persist in ruining
tea or coffee by adding a thin, cold gruel? Teas and coffees have tastes
of their own, why corrupt them in the same way that you debase
vegetables in order that they look like, cook like, smell like, and
taste like the meat that you despise others for eating? Do you get some
psychological comfort out of ruining everything?

You seem to live in a very strange world, even more so than the British
going to Spain and only wanting to eat fish and chips, because that's
all they are used to, or the old folk who wouldn't even try a curry,
lasagne or spag bol because it's 'all foreign muck', compared with the
meat and two veg they have every day of their sad and unadventurous /
closed minded lives. You seem no different. with pseudomilk in your tea
and pseudomeat for dinner.

--
Spike

On 09/05/2021 20:23, T i m wrote:

Look how much pushback you see just asking people to consider milk
alternatives.

Local Sainsburys sells 200 pints of proper milk for every carton
of watery-white nonsense pretending to be 'milk'.

On 10/05/2021 08:21, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 00:43:27 +0100, Fredxx
wrote:

On 09/05/2021 21:02, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 18:14:56 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

I was wondering if they have actually made vegan meat taste of meat and not
cardboard yet.

Yes ... but what's the need to only eat things that taste like burnt
animal flesh ... oh yes, the dopamine you are now addicted to! ;-(

Most of us don't burn meat. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong?

If you like a burger, treat yourself to something like a 'No Bull
Burger' and add what you normally add to a burger (we add fried onion,
melted scheese, mushroom, relish etc) and tell me if that doesn't give
you the same sort of pleasure you would get from the same range of
things in a meat burger.

I haven't tried that specific make, but substitute meat rarely has the
same texture or taste of meat.

Quorn chunks come pretty close

I find Quorn products variable, some have an unpleasant tang, others
where you might expect the meat texture as in sausages seem ok.

On 09/05/2021 20:00, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 09:03:44 UTC+1, Spike wrote:
Perhaps the high cost of vegan foods comes from the extra processing
needed, with the consequent extra burden on the environment and its
effect on climate change, in order to make them look like, taste like,
smell like, and cook like the very things they are substituting for,
because vegans miss their meat.

Strange that.

When we first discovered cooking meat to make it edible, why didn't we think "now how can we make this roast suckling pig taste just like the delicious boiled cabbage we've been eating for the last then thousand years?"

Owain


And apart from which it is easier the roast a lump of meat over an open
fire with a just one pointy stick, like they do to this day in rural
Brazil.

Bit tricky cooking veggies on an open fire without any pots, which
they would not have had.

On 10/05/2021 11:59, Tim Streater wrote:
On 10 May 2021 at 11:48:53 BST, Spike wrote:

On 10/05/2021 10:22, T i m wrote:

If you happen to be born into an environment (parents / culture /
circumstances) or culture / religion where you don't drink milk after
you wean (as nature intended), offer them some milk and they would
think you were weird.

Nature doesn't "intend" anything.


And it abhores a vacuum, like the space inside the average blinkered
activist

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:44:21 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 10/05/2021 11:59, Tim Streater wrote:
On 10 May 2021 at 11:48:53 BST, Spike wrote:

On 10/05/2021 10:22, T i m wrote:

If you happen to be born into an environment (parents / culture /
circumstances) or culture / religion where you don't drink milk after
you wean (as nature intended), offer them some milk and they would
think you were weird.

Nature doesn't "intend" anything.


And it abhores a vacuum, like the space inside the average blinkered
activist

Funny that you fail to come up with a single valid / tangible reply to
my points, other than admitting your own blinkered POV and
selfishness?

Cheers, T i m

On 10 May 2021 10:59:43 GMT, Tim Streater
wrote:

On 10 May 2021 at 11:48:53 BST, Spike wrote:

On 10/05/2021 10:22, T i m wrote:

If you happen to be born into an environment (parents / culture /
circumstances) or culture / religion where you don't drink milk after
you wean (as nature intended), offer them some milk and they would
think you were weird.

Nature doesn't "intend" anything.

Aww bless, more left brainer strawmen because you have FCUK ALL else
to answer with.

https://ell.stackexchange.com/questi...ature-intended

If you think humans were ever part of the evolution of a cow and why
it produces milk then you are thicker than I imagined (and that was
quite a lot)!

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 May 2021 11:31:43 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 7 May 2021 13:31:21 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

processing veggies to look like, taste like, etc meat is just daft

Why, how is it impacting you?

because it pushes up the price of these food items at the shops

Only initially possibly, till they can reach sufficient market
penetration for quantity of scale can kick in.

Look how much pushback you see just asking people to consider milk
alternatives.

because it don't taste like milk, does it?

and if it doesn't taste like milk, don't flipping call it milk

call it whatever it is drink

and then market that as a new healthy generic option.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
...


"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 May 2021 13:31:21 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

processing veggies to look like, taste like, etc meat is just daft

Why, how is it impacting you?

because it pushes up the price of these food items at the shops

Now that may not be an immediate threat to me, but it makes the
population more accepting of this higher price point for individual
processed meals meaning that manufactures can artificially increase
prices of other processed meals. -

Or worse, encourage Governments to add a "non veggie" sin-tax to other
food groups on the bogus reasoning that they complete "unfairly" with
more sustainable veggie products.

That doesn't happen with the meat being discussed.

Well of course not. Because the greenies haven't yet managed to persuade
TPTB that they should reduce meat consumption by taxing it

but they are on the road to that destinations

On 10/05/2021 14:02, tim... wrote:
"T i m" wrote

Look how much pushback you see just asking people to consider milk
alternatives.

because it don't taste like milk, does it?

and if it doesn't taste like milk, don't flipping call it milk

call it whatever it is drink

Nah...

"Would you like Thin Cold Gruel with that?'" just isn't going to cut it.

--
Spike

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:39:19 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 09/05/2021 20:23, T i m wrote:

Look how much pushback you see just asking people to consider milk
alternatives.

Local Sainsburys sells 200 pints of proper milk for every carton
of watery-white nonsense pretending to be 'milk'.

Cite (not that that's relevant as I'm sure they didn't sell many
'Slave freedom kits' until they started setting the slaves free).

By 'proper milk' you mean the bovine growth fluid that we once used to
help us survive that we no longer need, shouldn't be consuming once
weaned, where 60% of the worlds adult population are intolerant to and
causes high levels of pollution and resource waste, along with the
animal pain , suffering and death you mean?

Have you not evolved at all since we may have *had* to consume such
things to survive?

(Don't bother answering that, I know the answer obviously).

Hey, I've found a picture of you, having a natural drink ...

https://ibb.co/Pjyhq40

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 10 May 2021 15:02:15 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:
snip

Look how much pushback you see just asking people to consider milk
alternatives.

because it don't taste like milk, does it?

Erm, in many cases, 'yes'? But aren't you fed up only having the same
taste, especcially all these years after you have weaned?

and if it doesn't taste like milk, don't flipping call it milk

Here you go, I'm sure that will help alleviate your confusion.
https://ibb.co/C6QQf1n

The irony here of course is that we have comodified the lactate of
cows with a label of 'Milk' when it's no different 'a milk' (in it's
natural role) than human breast milk or whale milk.

It's the cry babies (no irony there of course) who 'complain' that you
shouldn't call anything else 'milk' when maybe what you (not me obvs)
typically refer to as 'Milk' should actually be called 'Cows Milk' (as
in the milk *from* cows (*for* calves etc)).

call it whatever it is drink

You can call it what you like but they often call stuff things to make
it easier for the thick people to understand what it is and how they
might use it. Call it 'Oat drink' and people may not reaslise you can
use it in the same way as the milk they have been stealing from calves
all these years?

And I must have missed your complaints here about 'peanut butter' not
being made of butter (how confusing that must have been for you) or
that your beef burger was actually made of horse meat (and very little
'meat' at that) or how 'Milk of magnesia' must have been off and
ruined your Rice Crispies?

Do you care about what they call the glue they use to hold together
what you think is one bit of meat is called? I mean, if it lists
Transglutaminase on the ingredients is that better than saying 'Meat
glue'?

and then market that as a new healthy generic option.

They have, as in 'Plant based milk' (where 'milk' is the role, not a
brand) but the only people complaining about any of this are the
people trying to defend the exploitation of animals and the criminally
stupid (defined by the hundreds of other products out there that don't
have the contents you assume).

I bet you would support the labeling of a packet of nuts that it 'May
contain nuts' (in case you got confused with coal nuts)?

Hey, if you really want to avoid all this confusion (?), pick a more
appropriate name for 'Cows milk' from this funny video ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM95_k9onEc

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:41:47 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

snip

And apart from which it is easier the roast a lump of meat over an open
fire with a just one pointy stick, like they do to this day in rural
Brazil.

Ah yes, and the epicentre of the world population of course, so is
bound to be representative of how we should all do things today.

Bit tricky cooking veggies on an open fire without any pots, which
they would not have had.

Yup ... and thanks for another history lesson Neanderthal ... don't
walk too near the edge ...

Cheers, T i m

Spike wrote:
[...] why it is that you have to substitute cow's milk
with oat milk. Why do you persist in ruining
tea or coffee by adding a thin, cold gruel?

In my distinctly non-vegan opinion, oat milk goes really well
with coffee - perhaps even better than cows milk does. I just
happened to see it taste-tested favourably on tv, I think on
one of those "Inside the Factory things" on a milk producer
and thought I had little to lose by trying it. There was even
some food-sciencey reason why it was expected to work well. I
did buy a slightly fancier brand of oat milk, but I was very
pleasantly surprised.

Haven't been adventurous enough to try it with tea, though :-)

#Paul

On Mon, 10 May 2021 19:03:20 +0100,
(#Paul) wrote:

Spike wrote:
[...] why it is that you have to substitute cow's milk
with oat milk. Why do you persist in ruining
tea or coffee by adding a thin, cold gruel?

In my distinctly non-vegan opinion, oat milk goes really well
with coffee -

I agree. In fact we generally keep 3 plant based milks on the go. Oat
milk to whiten hot beverages, unsweetened soya for my cereal and
sweetened for hers.

Any can be used for any role, just we prefer that range for those uses
(and variety is the spice of life eh). ;-)

perhaps even better than cows milk does.

What isn't. ;-)

I just
happened to see it taste-tested favourably on tv, I think on
one of those "Inside the Factory things" on a milk producer
and thought I had little to lose by trying it.

And that's the right attitude Paul, especially if it means in doing
so, less suffering and death is imposed on innocent creatures (even if
you aren't doing it for that reason).

There was even
some food-sciencey reason why it was expected to work well.

Oh?

I
did buy a slightly fancier brand of oat milk, but I was very
pleasantly surprised.

We (or daughter atm) just get's it from Aldi I think but we have been
buying ours (mostly Soya) from Sainsbury's for over 5 years now.

Haven't been adventurous enough to try it with tea, though :-)

We have a friend who is 'fussy' about how he takes his tea, it has to
have just the right amount of milk etc and whilst I might make an
effort to get it right for us (or a visitor who expresses a
preference), I normally say 'white / normal / no sugar thanks' to
anyone asking me how I like my tea they are making me and drink it
'whatever' (well, so far anyway).

Even our local biker burger-van keeps a selection of plant based milks
because more and more people are asking / preferring it over the stuff
meant for baby cows (even big hairy bikers). ;-)

It's no different from going from say Heinz baked beans to 'Own label'
that are slightly different but not 50p (or whatever) different /
better per tin. Well, in general the own label BB are lower in sugar
and salt than Heinz and so like plant based milk, they are actually
better for you. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 09/05/2021 20:00, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 09:03:44 UTC+1, Spike wrote:
Perhaps the high cost of vegan foods comes from the extra processing
needed, with the consequent extra burden on the environment and its
effect on climate change, in order to make them look like, taste like,
smell like, and cook like the very things they are substituting for,
because vegans miss their meat.

Strange that.

When we first discovered cooking meat to make it edible, why didn't we
think "now how can we make this roast suckling pig taste just like the
delicious boiled cabbage we've been eating for the last then thousand
years?"

Owain


And apart from which it is easier the roast a lump of meat over an open
fire with a just one pointy stick, like they do to this day in rural
Brazil.

Bit tricky cooking veggies on an open fire without any pots, which
they would not have had.

They did actually and you can also cook veg in the ashes with root veg.

On 10/05/2021 18:13, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 15:02:15 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:
snip

Look how much pushback you see just asking people to consider milk
alternatives.

because it don't taste like milk, does it?

Erm, in many cases, 'yes'? But aren't you fed up only having the same
taste, especcially all these years after you have weaned?

and if it doesn't taste like milk, don't flipping call it milk

Here you go, I'm sure that will help alleviate your confusion.
https://ibb.co/C6QQf1n

The irony here of course is that we have comodified the lactate of
cows with a label of 'Milk' when it's no different 'a milk' (in it's
natural role) than human breast milk or whale milk.

It's the cry babies (no irony there of course) who 'complain' that you
shouldn't call anything else 'milk' when maybe what you (not me obvs)
typically refer to as 'Milk' should actually be called 'Cows Milk' (as
in the milk *from* cows (*for* calves etc)).

The only cry babies are the fanatics carving for real cow's milk, but
their 'loved ones' won't let them drink the nectar.

call it whatever it is drink

You can call it what you like but they often call stuff things to make
it easier for the thick people to understand what it is and how they
might use it. Call it 'Oat drink' and people may not reaslise you can
use it in the same way as the milk they have been stealing from calves
all these years?

Are you saying vegans are too thick to understand oaty water?

And I must have missed your complaints here about 'peanut butter' not
being made of butter (how confusing that must have been for you)

Quite, in some countries it is called peanut cheese because of issues
with being called butter

or
that your beef burger was actually made of horse meat (and very little
'meat' at that) or how 'Milk of magnesia' must have been off and
ruined your Rice Crispies?

When you use cow's milk we don't get those issues. You make things very
difficult for yourself.

Do you care about what they call the glue they use to hold together
what you think is one bit of meat is called? I mean, if it lists
Transglutaminase on the ingredients is that better than saying 'Meat
glue'?

I prefer to use egg as a binder.

and then market that as a new healthy generic option.

They have, as in 'Plant based milk' (where 'milk' is the role, not a
brand) but the only people complaining about any of this are the
people trying to defend the exploitation of animals and the criminally
stupid (defined by the hundreds of other products out there that don't
have the contents you assume).

You're the one bringing up the inappropriate use of milk. Perhaps it's
an idea to confuse those with lower intelligence it can be treated and
used as if it is real cow's milk.

I bet you would support the labeling of a packet of nuts that it 'May
contain nuts' (in case you got confused with coal nuts)?

Which goes to show the lengths a fanatical vegan will go to to lose an
argument.

Hey, if you really want to avoid all this confusion (?), pick a more
appropriate name for 'Cows milk' from this funny video ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM95_k9onEc

Yes it is funny, it shows the lengths fanatics will go to.

On 10/05/2021 18:16, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:41:47 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

snip

And apart from which it is easier the roast a lump of meat over an open
fire with a just one pointy stick, like they do to this day in rural
Brazil.

Ah yes, and the epicentre of the world population of course, so is
bound to be representative of how we should all do things today.

Bit tricky cooking veggies on an open fire without any pots, which
they would not have had.

Yup ... and thanks for another history lesson Neanderthal ... don't
walk too near the edge ...

There's quite a bit of evidence to suggest Neanderthal were more
intelligent than humans.

It is also noted that dogs (slaves that you would refer to as pets) were
not usually associated with Neanderthal settlements.

On 10/05/2021 14:52, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:44:21 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 10/05/2021 11:59, Tim Streater wrote:
On 10 May 2021 at 11:48:53 BST, Spike wrote:

On 10/05/2021 10:22, T i m wrote:

If you happen to be born into an environment (parents / culture /
circumstances) or culture / religion where you don't drink milk after
you wean (as nature intended), offer them some milk and they would
think you were weird.

Nature doesn't "intend" anything.


And it abhores a vacuum, like the space inside the average blinkered
activist

Funny that you fail to come up with a single valid / tangible reply to
my points, other than admitting your own blinkered POV and
selfishness?

I'm sure you fail to come up with a single valid / tangible reply to the
points below, other than admitting your own blinkered POV and envy
towards those who have a natural balanced diet.

1) You are a fanatic
2) Hypocrite in terms of incarcerating your pets unbecoming of a vegan.
3) Keeping a dog in captivity, admitting you subjecting it to pain
through full bladders and bowels.
4) Likely deficient in B12
5) Being an unworthy example of a vegan
6) Abusing others who disagree with you, questioning their brain
7) In denial you abuse others who disagree with you
8) Not caring for animal welfare, as indicated by the snipping of
petitions and not wanting to improve slaughter procedures.
9) You believe in a deity like father christmas and endorse religious
practises employed in cruel animal slaughter
10) Admit you don't want the conditions during the animal's life to be
improved
11) Subject children to age restricted violence
12) Endorse the cruel forcefeeding of geese so you can enjoy fois gras
13) Endorse the cruel practice of caging bears for their raw bile
14) Endorse cruel blood sports
15) You agree you're a blinkered troll

On 10/05/2021 20:49, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 19:03:20 +0100,
(#Paul) wrote:

Spike wrote:
[...] why it is that you have to substitute cow's milk
with oat milk. Why do you persist in ruining
tea or coffee by adding a thin, cold gruel?

In my distinctly non-vegan opinion, oat milk goes really well
with coffee -

I agree. In fact we generally keep 3 plant based milks on the go. Oat
milk to whiten hot beverages, unsweetened soya for my cereal and
sweetened for hers.

Any can be used for any role, just we prefer that range for those uses
(and variety is the spice of life eh). ;-)

Of course I enjoy those as well as cows milk, an even greater variety.

perhaps even better than cows milk does.

What isn't. ;-)

Not much.

On 10/05/2021 12:39, Andrew wrote:
On 09/05/2021 20:23, T i m wrote:

Look how much pushback you see just asking people to consider milk
alternatives.

Local Sainsburys sells 200 pints of proper milk for every carton
of watery-white nonsense pretending to be 'milk'.

By "proper" do you mean "standardised", i.e. watered down? That's
against the Seventh Commandment.

--
Max Demian

"tim..." wrote in message
...


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
...


"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 May 2021 13:31:21 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

processing veggies to look like, taste like, etc meat is just daft

Why, how is it impacting you?

because it pushes up the price of these food items at the shops

Now that may not be an immediate threat to me, but it makes the
population more accepting of this higher price point for individual
processed meals meaning that manufactures can artificially increase
prices of other processed meals. -

Or worse, encourage Governments to add a "non veggie" sin-tax to other
food groups on the bogus reasoning that they complete "unfairly" with
more sustainable veggie products.

That doesn't happen with the meat being discussed.

Well of course not. Because the greenies haven't yet managed to persuade
TPTB that they should reduce meat consumption by taxing it

but they are on the road to that destinations

It aint gunna happen, you watch. No govt except
the greens would ever be that stupid and there is no
possibility that the stupid greens will ever be the govt.

On 10/05/2021 14:57, T i m wrote:
On 10 May 2021 10:59:43 GMT, Tim Streater
wrote:

On 10 May 2021 at 11:48:53 BST, Spike wrote:

On 10/05/2021 10:22, T i m wrote:

If you happen to be born into an environment (parents / culture /
circumstances) or culture / religion where you don't drink milk after
you wean (as nature intended), offer them some milk and they would
think you were weird.

Nature doesn't "intend" anything.

Aww bless, more left brainer strawmen because you have FCUK ALL else
to answer with.

We are natural beings in a natural world. Or would you regard beavers as
being unnatural as they modify their environment to suit their needs too?

https://ell.stackexchange.com/questi...ature-intended

If you think humans were ever part of the evolution of a cow and why
it produces milk then you are thicker than I imagined (and that was
quite a lot)!

Given the breed are selected for their milk production, it's the next
best thing to evolution.

On Tue, 11 May 2021 07:05:19 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Another typical retarded "conversation" between the two resident idiots:

Birdbrain: "But imagine how cool it was to own slaves."

Senile Rodent: "Yeah, right. Feed them, clothe them, and fix them when
they're broken.
After all, you paid good money for them. Then you've got to keep an eye
on them all the time."

Birdbrain: "Better than having to give them wages on top of that."

Senile Rodent: "Specially when they make more slaves for you
and produce their own food and clothes."

MID:

On Tue, 11 May 2021 06:19:31 +1000, "Joey" wrote:

snip

Bit tricky cooking veggies on an open fire without any pots, which
they would not have had.

They did actually and you can also cook veg in the ashes with root veg.

It's like some of these people have never heard of 'baking' eh.

You know, 'a baked potato' (even with the clue in the name).

That probably means they have never been wild camping either ...
probably frightened the animals will get *them* (ironic or what).

Cheers, T i m

On 10/05/2021 22:58, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 11 May 2021 06:19:31 +1000, "Joey" wrote:

snip

Bit tricky cooking veggies on an open fire without any pots, which
they would not have had.

They did actually and you can also cook veg in the ashes with root veg.

It's like some of these people have never heard of 'baking' eh.

You know, 'a baked potato' (even with the clue in the name).

Ah yes a potato, one of those things that humans can't digest unless
cooked - surely that must tell you something? ((c) T i m)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Saturday, 8 May 2021 at 03:42:56 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 08:03:50 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 06/05/2021 19:48, T i m wrote:

But hey-ho, if the Co-Op are only bringing the price of their vegan
range down to that that better match all the others, at least they
might benefit from that in the same way as Greggs have with their
(fairly restricted) vegan range and yet another place we know we can
pick stuff up if convenient etc. ;-)
It is all posturing. The Coop claim to have ethical policies and support
the community but its hardly supporting the poorer in society with their
pricing policy.

Staying with friends in an area of the country where the only 3
supermarkets within a radius of 10 to 15 miles of where they live are
Co-op shows me how really expensive they are, and I don't live in a
"cheap" part of the country (S.E. Essex). My friends now get home
deliveries from the more distant mainstream big supermarkets - a service
expanded greatly in their area since the start of the covid pandemic.
Better for us, better for them, better for the animals and better for
(all of our) environment. ;-)
It's easy to have price parity between goods if you have high prices to
start with. Surely vegan "substitute food" should be cheaper anyway as
the raw ingredients are cheaper?

Not really when you can get pre-cooked ready to eat studd from take-aways.
2 chicken wings and chups for £1 is difficult to beat price wise.

Perhaps some organisations have
realised that a fool and his money are soon parted and there is a lot of
money to be made from the vegan fad while it lasts?

Not sure that is true as people are fooled by buligar cavair
and it's the mid priced wines that have the biggest markup on them.
So it's those paying abpout £8 for a bottle of wine that are the most
fooled.
I'd stick to my £3.99 thunderbird ;-)



If the co-op are embracing veganism as part of their ethical policies
shouldn't that also stop selling meat, milk, butter, eggs, fish etc.?

Well thre's a differnce to embracing and totalling converting.

it's like those that want to help the enviroment, will they give up flying
to another country,,
will they give up their cars, their gas central heating.
Will those against slavery boycotte the tate gallery which was built from
the profits
of slaverery.


I'm not sure why vegans are paying more for food.

They aren't, it's mostly due to supply and demand.

And if you grow your own in the garden of have an allottment it hardly
costs anything.

When I go and buy
fruit and vegetables, nuts, spicy bean burgers and a variety of other
goods I don't seem to be paying more than anyone else, however I don't
get these items from the vegan aisle!

I doubt most vegans do, friends of mine that have been veggies for years
wouldn't be fooled by this.
But who is stupid enough to pay money to go to an art gallery to see
painting
that an artist couldn't sell in his liftime, if they were crap then why
aren't they still crap
but cost millions to buy ?
Because he was ahead of his time, silly.

How can artist be ahead of his time, art shouldn't be time limited
like a sack of spuds.

On Sunday, 9 May 2021 at 20:01:00 UTC+1, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 09:03:44 UTC+1, Spike wrote:
Perhaps the high cost of vegan foods comes from the extra processing
needed, with the consequent extra burden on the environment and its
effect on climate change, in order to make them look like, taste like,
smell like, and cook like the very things they are substituting for,
because vegans miss their meat.

Strange that.

When we first discovered cooking meat to make it edible, why didn't we think "now how can we make this roast suckling pig taste just like the delicious boiled cabbage we've been eating for the last then thousand years?"

Owain

Makes me wonder why ketchup wasn't invented milleniums before it was ;-)

On Monday, 10 May 2021 at 00:43:30 UTC+1, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/05/2021 21:02, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 18:14:56 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

I was wondering if they have actually made vegan meat taste of meat and not
cardboard yet.

Yes ... but what's the need to only eat things that taste like burnt
animal flesh ... oh yes, the dopamine you are now addicted to! ;-(
Most of us don't burn meat. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong?

I remmeber when my french flatmate cook me a stealk for the first time.
She placed it in the pan then almost immediately took it out again claiming it was cooked.
I bet a vet would have brought it back to life.
I put mine back in the pan and she'd eaten hers by the time mine was nice and brown and crispy around the edges


If you like a burger, treat yourself to something like a 'No Bull
Burger' and add what you normally add to a burger (we add fried onion,
melted scheese, mushroom, relish etc) and tell me if that doesn't give
you the same sort of pleasure you would get from the same range of
things in a meat burger.
I haven't tried that specific make, but substitute meat rarely has the
same texture or taste of meat.

That can be an advantage I like linda mccartney mozzarella burgers but not the
other ones. I don't like the fat on bacon and was always picking it off.
But I like the plant bacon sainsburys have tastes enough like bacon and I don't have to spend
most of the time cutting the fat off because there isn't any.
I like the pukka vegan pies more than some of the real meat ones.

On Monday, 10 May 2021 at 11:48:56 UTC+1, Spike wrote:
On 10/05/2021 10:22, T i m wrote:

If you happen to be born into an environment (parents / culture /
circumstances) or culture / religion where you don't drink milk after
you wean (as nature intended), offer them some milk and they would
think you were weird.
Now, if you didn't want to eat your cereal dry or tea / coffle black
and didn't like them with just water or orange juice, the chances are
you would like them with any one of the white liquids they make from
plants.
You are running campaign to brow-beat others into joining your
evangelism for veganism, but you don't explain why it is that you have
to substitute cow's milk with oat milk.

Yes and it's unlikely to work.

Why do you persist in ruining
tea or coffee by adding a thin, cold gruel? Teas and coffees have tastes
of their own, why corrupt them in the same way that you debase
vegetables in order that they look like, cook like, smell like, and
taste like the meat that you despise others for eating? Do you get some
psychological comfort out of ruining everything?

Makes me wonder why he even cooks anyhting humans were never meant to cook stuff or wear clothes.
I guess some of us have evolved, not all directions of evolutioin were successful
the most successful I think were based on exploiting others.
We can and should now try to reverse this but it will take 1000s of years and I'm betting we'll destroy
the planet before we get aback to not wearing clothes and munching orn raw veg.

Maybe T i ms ancestors never evolved , perhaps that's why he has no use for the left hand side of his brain.
There is a reason why most of us have the teeth we have and why we can't easily digest grass
and uncooked 'food' like we once could.
Those 2 stomachs some seem to have are mostly caused by beer.



You seem to live in a very strange world, even more so than the British
going to Spain and only wanting to eat fish and chips, because that's
all they are used to, or the old folk who wouldn't even try a curry,
lasagne or spag bol because it's 'all foreign muck', compared with the
meat and two veg they have every day of their sad and unadventurous /
closed minded lives. You seem no different. with pseudomilk in your tea
and pseudomeat for dinner.

I have evolved further I like to eat what I like the taste and texture of
I don't like animal cruelty, I don't believe man/women can live on raw veg alone.
Cooking does cause global warming maybe not much but lighting fires
is unnatural animals don't do it, but they do kill other animals for food.

I no longer curse neighbours for not triiming/cutting back their front garden hedge
as I risk life and limb walking past them at night while tipsy and they jump out at me.
As I now appreciate the sparrows making their home in them. But I do wonder what sparrows might taste like. ;-)
Don't know why T i m refused to say Y or N in the EU referedum or what his NOTA
was meant to show.

Surely he is against taxpayers vegan, veggie and even meat eaters all having their
taxes pay for other to have cheap milk and dairy products. Also foie gras, bull fighting
all fully supported by the EU taxpayers money.




--
Spike

On Monday, 10 May 2021 at 20:49:57 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 19:03:20 +0100,
(#Paul) wrote:

Spike wrote:
[...] why it is that you have to substitute cow's milk
with oat milk. Why do you persist in ruining
tea or coffee by adding a thin, cold gruel?

In my distinctly non-vegan opinion, oat milk goes really well
with coffee -
I agree. In fact we generally keep 3 plant based milks on the go. Oat
milk to whiten hot beverages, unsweetened soya for my cereal and
sweetened for hers.

For me soya or soy not sure which or if they are the same is far too oily for anything.
I'd rather use WD40 ;-)

Oat milk for Tea or coffee is fine for me although I still use
cows milk a few times a week just in case there's something I'm missing vitamin wise.
My ancestors were brought up drinking it for as long as they were brought up to wear shoes and clothes.

Need to find soemthing to use for making coctails such as grasshopper and velevet hammer which use
types of cream have some cashew nut 'oil' and almond to try .
soya oil coaguladed when I tied it


Any can be used for any role, just we prefer that range for those uses
(and variety is the spice of life eh). ;-)
perhaps even better than cows milk does.
What isn't. ;-)

Most liguors I've tried.

I just
happened to see it taste-tested favourably on tv, I think on
one of those "Inside the Factory things" on a milk producer
and thought I had little to lose by trying it.
And that's the right attitude Paul, especially if it means in doing
so, less suffering and death is imposed on innocent creatures (even if
you aren't doing it for that reason).

I hope so although transporting all the soya from china by boat
might be causing whales problems.

and as for almond milk, seems there's always some problem to overcome.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...onds-hives-aoe



There was even
some food-sciencey reason why it was expected to work well.
Oh?
I
did buy a slightly fancier brand of oat milk, but I was very
pleasantly surprised.
We (or daughter atm) just get's it from Aldi I think but we have been
buying ours (mostly Soya) from Sainsbury's for over 5 years now.

I haven;t been able to tell the differnce between aldis at 79p and the local
shops grey baritistor(SP) at £2.49 so well please I can;t tell the differnce


Haven't been adventurous enough to try it with tea, though :-)

I found it fine, just don;t use too much I use slightly less (colourwise) than I would with milk.

We have a friend who is 'fussy' about how he takes his tea, it has to
have just the right amount of milk etc and whilst I might make an
effort to get it right for us (or a visitor who expresses a
preference), I normally say 'white / normal / no sugar thanks' to
anyone asking me how I like my tea they are making me and drink it
'whatever' (well, so far anyway).

White & normal ! racist homophob ;-)


Even our local biker burger-van keeps a selection of plant based milks
because more and more people are asking / preferring it over the stuff
meant for baby cows (even big hairy bikers). ;-)

it certainly keeps longer (unopened) than cows milk which is also handy.
Don;t need to keep it in the fridge until opened.

It's no different from going from say Heinz baked beans to 'Own label'
that are slightly different but not 50p (or whatever) different /
better per tin. Well, in general the own label BB are lower in sugar
and salt than Heinz and so like plant based milk, they are actually
better for you. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 11 May 2021 23:34:43 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 10/05/2021 22:58, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 11 May 2021 06:19:31 +1000, "Joey" wrote:

snip

Bit tricky cooking veggies on an open fire without any pots, which
they would not have had.

They did actually and you can also cook veg in the ashes with root veg.

It's like some of these people have never heard of 'baking' eh.

You know, 'a baked potato' (even with the clue in the name).

Ah yes a potato, one of those things that humans can't digest unless
cooked - surely that must tell you something? ((c) T i m)

Yes, that you must have a pretty poor understanding of what foods we
can eat without cooking (other than meat of course) and how we could
possibly have survived before we learned how cooking released the
energy easier in some stuff and made meat and other things safe /
digestible. ;-)

But (of course) it's not all about our selfish needs is it (well it
shouldn't be to any 'highly evolved' species). It's specifically about
the animals and how we cause them unnecessary (in 2021) pain and
suffering though our exploitation (now getting even greater rights
under the new AWA), then the environment, the resources, the
antibiotic resistance and the sustainability of it all yada yada.

It's not vegans who are pushing hard towards the plant based foods,
it's the scientists, those who have access to the data, a good
understanding of the bigger picture and how it really doesn't make
sense (in 2021) to be breeding, feeding, maintaining, transporting,
processing and dealing with the waste of more livestock on this planet
than people!

Now, from the pov of those who don't want to inflict unnecessary
cruelty, exploitation and death on animals know that nothing changes
overnight but some of this can so easily be fixed by us individually
simply by not eating and using animals as we do now. We aim for a 100%
reduction and can then be happy we are going in that direction when
it's less. Aim for some arbitrary reduction and we would likely never
get there.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I just dived in Iceland on the way back from dropping some 3D
printing off and dog walk and it was like xmyth g. Loads of
additional things to try and it looks like it's going to be a curry
tonight. ;-)

On 11/05/2021 23:34, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/05/2021 22:58, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 11 May 2021 06:19:31 +1000, "Joey" wrote:

snip

Bit tricky cooking veggies on an open fire without any pots, which
they would not have had.

They did actually and you can also cook veg in the ashes with root veg.

It's like some of these people have never heard of 'baking' eh.

You know, 'a baked potato' (even with the clue in the name).

Ah yes a potato, one of those things that humans can't digest unless
cooked - surely that must tell you something? ((c) T i m)



Until South America was 'discovered' europeans didn't have potatoes
or (presumbly) tomatoes or tobacco.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 8 May 2021 at 03:42:56 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 08:03:50 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 06/05/2021 19:48, T i m wrote:

But hey-ho, if the Co-Op are only bringing the price of their vegan
range down to that that better match all the others, at least they
might benefit from that in the same way as Greggs have with their
(fairly restricted) vegan range and yet another place we know we can
pick stuff up if convenient etc. ;-)
It is all posturing. The Coop claim to have ethical policies and
support
the community but its hardly supporting the poorer in society with
their
pricing policy.

Staying with friends in an area of the country where the only 3
supermarkets within a radius of 10 to 15 miles of where they live are
Co-op shows me how really expensive they are, and I don't live in a
"cheap" part of the country (S.E. Essex). My friends now get home
deliveries from the more distant mainstream big supermarkets - a
service
expanded greatly in their area since the start of the covid pandemic.
Better for us, better for them, better for the animals and better
for
(all of our) environment. ;-)
It's easy to have price parity between goods if you have high prices
to
start with. Surely vegan "substitute food" should be cheaper anyway as
the raw ingredients are cheaper?

Not really when you can get pre-cooked ready to eat studd from
take-aways.
2 chicken wings and chups for £1 is difficult to beat price wise.

Perhaps some organisations have
realised that a fool and his money are soon parted and there is a lot
of
money to be made from the vegan fad while it lasts?

Not sure that is true as people are fooled by buligar cavair
and it's the mid priced wines that have the biggest markup on them.
So it's those paying abpout £8 for a bottle of wine that are the most
fooled.
I'd stick to my £3.99 thunderbird ;-)



If the co-op are embracing veganism as part of their ethical policies
shouldn't that also stop selling meat, milk, butter, eggs, fish etc.?

Well thre's a differnce to embracing and totalling converting.

it's like those that want to help the enviroment, will they give up
flying
to another country,,
will they give up their cars, their gas central heating.
Will those against slavery boycotte the tate gallery which was built
from
the profits
of slaverery.


I'm not sure why vegans are paying more for food.

They aren't, it's mostly due to supply and demand.

And if you grow your own in the garden of have an allottment it hardly
costs anything.

When I go and buy
fruit and vegetables, nuts, spicy bean burgers and a variety of other
goods I don't seem to be paying more than anyone else, however I don't
get these items from the vegan aisle!

I doubt most vegans do, friends of mine that have been veggies for
years
wouldn't be fooled by this.
But who is stupid enough to pay money to go to an art gallery to see
painting
that an artist couldn't sell in his liftime, if they were crap then why
aren't they still crap but cost millions to buy ?

Because he was ahead of his time, silly.

How can artist be ahead of his time,

Because fashion drives art, stupid.

art shouldn't be time limited like a sack of spuds.

Its not time LIMITED but fashions do change over time.