It looks like the CoOp are leading a drive to reduce the disparity
between the cost of meat and animal_cruelty_free alternatives.

https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-...--7909926.html

I was wondering how all that fits in with how all the farming
subsidies are handed out.

https://www.surgeactivism.org/articl...exit-explained

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/743169...-and-dairy.pdf

Right, off for a walk to the CoOp (via the polling station) to show
support for their incentive ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 06/05/2021 14:49, T i m wrote:
It looks like the CoOp are leading a drive to reduce the disparity
between the cost of meat and animal_cruelty_free alternatives.

https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-...--7909926.html

I was wondering how all that fits in with how all the farming
subsidies are handed out.

https://www.surgeactivism.org/articl...exit-explained

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/743169...-and-dairy.pdf

Right, off for a walk to the CoOp (via the polling station) to show
support for their incentive ... ;-)

My experience is that such reductions are short-lived and designed to
attract short term news coverage, so intended for those with short
memories or ulterior motives.

Co-Op also sell Halal meat so you must support that form of slaughter
too via the polling station.

Is this another opportunity to spoil your vote?

On 06/05/2021 14:49, T i m wrote:
It looks like the CoOp are leading a drive to reduce the disparity
between the cost of meat and animal_cruelty_free alternatives.

https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-...--7909926.html

I was wondering how all that fits in with how all the farming
subsidies are handed out.

https://www.surgeactivism.org/articl...exit-explained

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/743169...-and-dairy.pdf

Right, off for a walk to the CoOp (via the polling station) to show
support for their incentive ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m



We often visit North Norfolk, and we refer to the local Coop as Fortnums
North. That's because the competition is so dire that it makes the Coop
appear rather more up-market than they intend to be.

On 06/05/2021 14:49, T i m wrote:
It looks like the CoOp are leading a drive to reduce the disparity
between the cost of meat and animal_cruelty_free alternatives.


https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-...--7909926.html

In my experience the Coop is the most expensive retailer of food items
in the market place, especially where they have a near monopoly in rural
areas.

Around my way where there is competition from not only the main
supermarkets, both German supermarkets and quite a few independents
their stores have closed over the past decade.




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 14:49:44 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
It looks like the CoOp are leading a drive to reduce the disparity
between the cost of meat and animal_cruelty_free alternatives.
https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-...--7909926.html

The prices the Co-op charge for stuff, they can slash their prices all they want. It's like Allied Carpets having a "Sale".

Whilst that might be the case 'generally', I'm not sure it applies to
this particular move.

And the Co-op would love to see us reducing our emissions as the only way they can sell more overpriced stuff in their convenience stores is if people can't take the car or bus to proper supermarkets.

Personally, I don't really like 'proper supermarkets', too big.

Which is why most Co-ops are in places where people already can't afford a car or bus.

So no CoOp in any of the 'well off' areas then?

Bcause they're more expensive than bloody Waitrose.

Ok. I rarely (if I ever have) used Waitrose so I'll be guided by you.

And they don't even sell aubergines (Co-op that is.)

They can keep them (any of them that is). ;-)

Pineapple Co-op £1.15, Aldi 59p, Waitrose £1
6 Tomatoes Co-op 75p, Aldi 49p, Waitrose 75p
Mushrooms Co-op 200g £1, Aldi 250g 49p, Waitrose 250g £1

So, product for product you are paying roughly the same in Co-Op as
Waitrose but both are more than Aldi. I'm not sure that would be a
surprise to most people.

With the Co-Op you are paying for the 'local' convenience.

With Waitrose you are paying for the name.

For Aldi you are not paying for the range or customer service or the
chance to bag all your shopping up without smashing half of it or
feeling like you are in the Generation Game. [1] ;-)

Meanwhile, Asda had Scotch pies for 75p for 4,

I can't see them on Asda's web site so were they reduced or in-store
only?

so that's my fortnight's meat intake for £2.25

Googles '15% Beef ... plus soya and other stuff so apart from the
beef and the milk, 'mostly vegan'. ;-)

We just picked up a couple of packs of 'wraps' (£1 for 6) and a lovely
box of mixed salad from the kebab shop for £4 and that will, with the
addition of some vegan chicken make the two of us at least two easy /
healthy meals each (probably 3 this time as the manager served me and
is particularly generous). ;-)

"Hey, Mr Tim ... how are you doing ...?"

Cheers, T i m

[1] We have a Lidl that's probably a 7 minute walk away versus a
smaller Sainsburies that's 5 but we generally (only) use Sainsbury's
because we CBA with Lidl checkout (and no self checkouts), the queues
and the temptation of the middle isle. ;-(

On Thu, 6 May 2021 18:26:29 +0100, GB
wrote:

snip

We often visit North Norfolk,

We love(ed?) Norfolk and spent most of our family holidays there.

and we refer to the local Coop as Fortnums
North. That's because the competition is so dire that it makes the Coop
appear rather more up-market than they intend to be.

Hehe.

It is funny how what is 'just' a corner shop for the locals can be a
special find when you are camping. ;-)

I think it was when we were staying on Oulton Broad Dad found a
mushroom farm a reasonable walk away where you could buy a basket of
monster / seconds mushrooms for next to nothing. We might have one
between us as they could be as big as our frying pan. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 6 May 2021 18:44:14 +0100, alan_m
wrote:

On 06/05/2021 14:49, T i m wrote:
It looks like the CoOp are leading a drive to reduce the disparity
between the cost of meat and animal_cruelty_free alternatives.


https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-...--7909926.html

In my experience the Coop is the most expensive retailer of food items
in the market place, especially where they have a near monopoly in rural
areas.

I can't say we have ever used one regularly, only maybe when camping,
either because (as you say) it was the only gay/// shop in the village
(when you sort of expect to pay 'sea prices') or when we have been on
the road (again, generally when on holiday) and pick up some
provisions where we can. They are also 'quicker' because they are
smaller and with parking right outside so better if you just want to
'pop in' for a few 'bits'.

Around my way where there is competition from not only the main
supermarkets, both German supermarkets and quite a few independents
their stores have closed over the past decade.

On the way home from the dog walk tonight I bought some 'bit's' in a
general independent, 7/11 type place, even though there was a Tesco
express nearly opposite that could well have been cheaper. However,
the chances are it would have been slower as these independents seem
to have the price of everything in their heads (and I do keep an eye
on the price / change and I have never had an issue) and so /
therefore move people though faster (less time with my mask on). ;-)

But hey-ho, if the Co-Op are only bringing the price of their vegan
range down to that that better match all the others, at least they
might benefit from that in the same way as Greggs have with their
(fairly restricted) vegan range and yet another place we know we can
pick stuff up if convenient etc. ;-)

Better for us, better for them, better for the animals and better for
(all of our) environment. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 06/05/2021 18:52, T i m wrote:

snip

and the temptation of the middle isle. ;-(

My local Lidl middle isle is mainly full of meat and meat products. I
presume yours is the same?

On 06/05/2021 15:36, Fredxx wrote:
On 06/05/2021 14:49, T i m wrote:
It looks like the CoOp are leading a drive to reduce the disparity
between the cost of meat and animal_cruelty_free alternatives.

https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-...--7909926.html


I was wondering how all that fits in with how all the farming
subsidies are handed out.

https://www.surgeactivism.org/articl...exit-explained


https://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/743169...-and-dairy.pdf


Right, off for a walk to the CoOp (via the polling station) to show
support for their incentive ... ;-)

My experience is that such reductions are short-lived and designed to
attract short term news coverage, so intended for those with short
memories or ulterior motives.

Co-Op also sell Halal meat so you must support that form of slaughter
too via the polling station.

Is this another opportunity to spoil your vote?





I have just been to my local Co-op as I needed cigs and beer and a few
other essentials.

The reduced to clear fridge was full of GRO vegan products with a sell
by date of 06/05/2021.

Need I say more?

--
Adam

On Thu, 6 May 2021 11:11:35 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 18:52:41 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
Which is why most Co-ops are in places where people already can't afford a car or bus.
So no CoOp in any of the 'well off' areas then?

Well, this one's round the corner from a Waitrose; I don't know if that quite counts as upmarket.
XJQG+44 Eastleigh

From my memory of Eastleigh it's no slum. ;-)

And they don't even sell aubergines (Co-op that is.)
They can keep them (any of them that is). ;-)
For Aldi you are not paying for the range

Aldi have a wider range than Co-op. Co-op don't sell aubergines, wheelbarrow wheels, or wetsuits.

;-)

Meanwhile, Asda had Scotch pies for 75p for 4,
I can't see them on Asda's web site so were they reduced or in-store
only?

Yes, reduced.

Ah, the had (rather than 'has').

so that's my fortnight's meat intake for £2.25
Googles '15% Beef ... plus soya and other stuff so apart from the
beef and the milk, 'mostly vegan'. ;-)

I'm glad they meet with your approval.

Well, they don't of course because they still require animal suffering
and death but if they really are your only meat for two weeks it
definitely a step in the right direction.

We just picked up a couple of packs of 'wraps' (£1 for 6) and a lovely
box of mixed salad from the kebab shop for £4

Not where I would buy mixed salad from,

I'm not sure where else you would buy that sort of mixed salad from?
It's sliced red cabbage, white cabbage, lettuce, tomato, cucumber and
onion and in one of the large boxes where he had to force the lid down
to get it all in. ;-)

but I suppose it's probably cheaper than Co-op.

I didn't buy it with price in mind as it's quite possible I could have
bought loads more of each ingredient for less. It was the fact that
whilst walking past their front door, I could be handed to me in a box
like that ready to use and whilst hardly stopping. ;-)

Given that it will form the bulk of 6 meals and with next to no effort
on my part, I don't consider it 'expensive'?

So, half a bag of these between us (that was 7 chunks each, about the
max you could get in a wrap with all that salad).

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/...chicken-pieces

So, 44p for the 'meat'.

A pack of 6 wraps for £1 means 17p each for that.

1/6th of the salad at £4 the box another 67p.

Add the cost of a dollop of vegan salad cream and that's about £1.50
per meal?

(We aim to get some vegan garlic sauce to give more of the kebab taste
we are used to.) ;-)

The pudding nearly cost as much, I had the other half (1st half
yesterday) of raspberry one of these: (that daughter got for us to
try).

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/plant-ba...650045.article

In a mo I think I'll have a mug of tea (oat milk) and a row of dark
chocolate:

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/...e--basics-100g

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 6 May 2021 13:29:06 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 21:10:23 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
Well, this one's round the corner from a Waitrose; I don't know if that quite counts as upmarket.
XJQG+44 Eastleigh
From my memory of Eastleigh it's no slum. ;-)

Chandler's Ford, actually.

Even better. ;-)

Meanwhile, Asda had Scotch pies for 75p for 4,
Ah, the had (rather than 'has').

Yes. Aldi had, now my freezer has.

Hehe. I like a pie now and again and again, no problem getting them.

Well, they don't of course because they still require animal suffering
and death but if they really are your only meat for two weeks it
definitely a step in the right direction.

Unless there are sausages reduced tomorrow or Sat.

Move away from the dark side. ;-)

Christmas dinner was bambi-balls

;-(

Not where I would buy mixed salad from,
I'm not sure where else you would buy that sort of mixed salad from?

In bags from the reduced fruit and veg section

But no, they are 'just' a light / lose bag of leaves. This was one of
those large kebab boxes *bulging* full of freshly chopped salad stuff.
It weighed like a box full of chips.

Today's lunch was pie (reduced) in a bun (reduced), and dinner was pasta (Aldi) and cheese sauce (home Bargains).

My Mum used to hound the man with the yellow sticker gun (he was using
it, not her) in Tesco express and I guess that was something she had
just grown up doing, 'making ends meet' etc. Dad left her with a good
pension so she *really* doesn't need to now but still often does (of
course). The problem is she often buys 'bargains' that she doesn't
like and tries to give them to us. ;-(

We are giving our dog more fresh veg (more than might already be in
the kibble etc) and it's interesting watching him eat it all (veg,
'complete' kibble and tinned meat).

Tonight he lifted the lump of cauliflower out of his bowl, ate half of
it then went in for some carrot. Then he ate one of the sprigs of
broccoli, the sprout then the meat / kibble, then finished off the
remaining veg and the other half of cauliflower from the floor. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 06/05/2021 21:56, Tim Streater wrote:
On 06 May 2021 at 19:57:42 BST, Fredxx wrote:

On 06/05/2021 18:52, T i m wrote:

snip

and the temptation of the middle isle. ;-(

My local Lidl middle isle is mainly full of meat and meat products. I
presume yours is the same?

I assume you clowns mean aisle.

Well spotted, this clown did.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 May 2021 11:11:35 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 18:52:41 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
Which is why most Co-ops are in places where people already can't
afford a car or bus.
So no CoOp in any of the 'well off' areas then?

Well, this one's round the corner from a Waitrose; I don't know if that
quite counts as upmarket.
XJQG+44 Eastleigh

From my memory of Eastleigh it's no slum. ;-)

Looks pretty posh to me
https://goo.gl/maps/wy4PsivyJtKQSMJe7

And they don't even sell aubergines (Co-op that is.)
They can keep them (any of them that is). ;-)
For Aldi you are not paying for the range

Aldi have a wider range than Co-op. Co-op don't sell aubergines,
wheelbarrow wheels, or wetsuits.

;-)

Meanwhile, Asda had Scotch pies for 75p for 4,
I can't see them on Asda's web site so were they reduced or in-store
only?

Yes, reduced.

Ah, the had (rather than 'has').

so that's my fortnight's meat intake for £2.25
Googles '15% Beef ... plus soya and other stuff so apart from the
beef and the milk, 'mostly vegan'. ;-)

I'm glad they meet with your approval.

Well, they don't of course because they still require animal suffering
and death but if they really are your only meat for two weeks it
definitely a step in the right direction.

We just picked up a couple of packs of 'wraps' (£1 for 6) and a lovely
box of mixed salad from the kebab shop for £4

Not where I would buy mixed salad from,

I'm not sure where else you would buy that sort of mixed salad from?
It's sliced red cabbage, white cabbage, lettuce, tomato, cucumber and
onion and in one of the large boxes where he had to force the lid down
to get it all in. ;-)

but I suppose it's probably cheaper than Co-op.

I didn't buy it with price in mind as it's quite possible I could have
bought loads more of each ingredient for less. It was the fact that
whilst walking past their front door, I could be handed to me in a box
like that ready to use and whilst hardly stopping. ;-)

Given that it will form the bulk of 6 meals and with next to no effort
on my part, I don't consider it 'expensive'?

So, half a bag of these between us (that was 7 chunks each, about the
max you could get in a wrap with all that salad).

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/...chicken-pieces

So, 44p for the 'meat'.

A pack of 6 wraps for £1 means 17p each for that.

1/6th of the salad at £4 the box another 67p.

Add the cost of a dollop of vegan salad cream and that's about £1.50
per meal?

(We aim to get some vegan garlic sauce to give more of the kebab taste
we are used to.) ;-)

The pudding nearly cost as much, I had the other half (1st half
yesterday) of raspberry one of these: (that daughter got for us to
try).

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/plant-ba...650045.article

In a mo I think I'll have a mug of tea (oat milk) and a row of dark
chocolate:

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/...e--basics-100g

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 May 2021 13:29:06 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 21:10:23 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
Well, this one's round the corner from a Waitrose; I don't know if that
quite counts as upmarket.
XJQG+44 Eastleigh
From my memory of Eastleigh it's no slum. ;-)

Chandler's Ford, actually.

Even better. ;-)

Meanwhile, Asda had Scotch pies for 75p for 4,
Ah, the had (rather than 'has').

Yes. Aldi had, now my freezer has.

Hehe. I like a pie now and again and again, no problem getting them.

Well, they don't of course because they still require animal suffering
and death but if they really are your only meat for two weeks it
definitely a step in the right direction.

Unless there are sausages reduced tomorrow or Sat.

Move away from the dark side. ;-)

Christmas dinner was bambi-balls

;-(

Not where I would buy mixed salad from,
I'm not sure where else you would buy that sort of mixed salad from?

In bags from the reduced fruit and veg section

But no, they are 'just' a light / lose bag of leaves. This was one of
those large kebab boxes *bulging* full of freshly chopped salad stuff.
It weighed like a box full of chips.

Today's lunch was pie (reduced) in a bun (reduced), and dinner was pasta
(Aldi) and cheese sauce (home Bargains).

My Mum used to hound the man with the yellow sticker gun (he was using
it, not her) in Tesco express and I guess that was something she had
just grown up doing, 'making ends meet' etc. Dad left her with a good
pension so she *really* doesn't need to now but still often does (of
course). The problem is she often buys 'bargains' that she doesn't
like and tries to give them to us. ;-(

We are giving our dog more fresh veg (more than might already be in
the kibble etc) and it's interesting watching him eat it all (veg,
'complete' kibble and tinned meat).

Tonight he lifted the lump of cauliflower out of his bowl, ate half of
it then went in for some carrot. Then he ate one of the sprigs of
broccoli, the sprout then the meat / kibble, then finished off the
remaining veg and the other half of cauliflower from the floor. ;-)

I've reported you to the RSPCA, you'll be sorree...

On Fri, 7 May 2021 08:20:13 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On Fri, 7 May 2021 08:28:36 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

On 06/05/2021 19:48, T i m wrote:

But hey-ho, if the Co-Op are only bringing the price of their vegan
range down to that that better match all the others, at least they
might benefit from that in the same way as Greggs have with their
(fairly restricted) vegan range and yet another place we know we can
pick stuff up if convenient etc. ;-)

It is all posturing. The Coop claim to have ethical policies and support
the community but its hardly supporting the poorer in society with their
pricing policy.

Staying with friends in an area of the country where the only 3
supermarkets within a radius of 10 to 15 miles of where they live are
Co-op shows me how really expensive they are, and I don't live in a
"cheap" part of the country (S.E. Essex). My friends now get home
deliveries from the more distant mainstream big supermarkets - a service
expanded greatly in their area since the start of the covid pandemic.

Better for us, better for them, better for the animals and better for
(all of our) environment. ;-)

It's easy to have price parity between goods if you have high prices to
start with. Surely vegan "substitute food" should be cheaper anyway as
the raw ingredients are cheaper? Perhaps some organisations have
realised that a fool and his money are soon parted and there is a lot of
money to be made from the vegan fad while it lasts?

If the co-op are embracing veganism as part of their ethical policies
shouldn't that also stop selling meat, milk, butter, eggs, fish etc.?

I'm not sure why vegans are paying more for food. When I go and buy
fruit and vegetables, nuts, spicy bean burgers and a variety of other
goods I don't seem to be paying more than anyone else, however I don't
get these items from the vegan aisle!




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"Owain Lastname" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 14:49:44 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
It looks like the CoOp are leading a drive to reduce the disparity
between the cost of meat and animal_cruelty_free alternatives.
https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-...--7909926.html

The prices the Co-op charge for stuff, they can slash their prices all
they want. It's like Allied Carpets having a "Sale".

And the Co-op would love to see us reducing our emissions as the only way
they can sell more overpriced stuff in their convenience stores is if
people can't take the car or bus to proper supermarkets. Which is why most
Co-ops are in places where people already can't afford a car or bus.
Because they're more expensive than bloody Waitrose. And they don't even
sell aubergines (Co-op that is.)

Pineapple Co-op £1.15, Aldi 59p, Waitrose £1
6 Tomatoes Co-op 75p, Aldi 49p, Waitrose 75p

which Aldi is this?

cos round my way, the saving on buying 6 tomatoes in Aldi against
Sainsbury/Tesco is 4p (65 v 69)

"Owain Lastname" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 18:52:41 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
Which is why most Co-ops are in places where people already can't afford
a car or bus.
So no CoOp in any of the 'well off' areas then?

Well, this one's round the corner from a Waitrose; I don't know if that
quite counts as upmarket.
XJQG+44 Eastleigh

And they don't even sell aubergines (Co-op that is.)
They can keep them (any of them that is). ;-)
For Aldi you are not paying for the range

Aldi have a wider range than Co-op. Co-op don't sell aubergines,
wheelbarrow wheels, or wetsuits.

well bugger me

I'll remember that the next time I need to buy a wheelbarrow wheel

On 07/05/2021 07:03, alan_m wrote:

It's easy to have price parity between goods if you have high prices to
start with. Surely vegan "substitute food" should be cheaper anyway as
the raw ingredients are cheaper?

Perhaps the high cost of vegan foods comes from the extra processing
needed, with the consequent extra burden on the environment and its
effect on climate change, in order to make them look like, taste like,
smell like, and cook like the very things they are substituting for,
because vegans miss their meat.

--
Spike

On 6 May 2021 at 18:44:14 BST, "alan_m" wrote:

On 06/05/2021 14:49, T i m wrote:
It looks like the CoOp are leading a drive to reduce the disparity
between the cost of meat and animal_cruelty_free alternatives.



https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-...--7909926.html

In my experience the Coop is the most expensive retailer of food items
in the market place, especially where they have a near monopoly in rural
areas.

Around my way where there is competition from not only the main
supermarkets, both German supermarkets and quite a few independents
their stores have closed over the past decade.

I wonder when we'll* stop obsessing about price and think about wider costs
like animal welfare, sustainable farming and working conditions? Barely a
mention in this thread - just money.

* those who can afford to choose
--
Cheers, Rob

On Thu, 06 May 2021 14:03:13 -0700, Owain Lastname wrote:

Venison is one of the most animal-friendly and environment-friendly
meats to eat.

I thought it was a little dear, though.

On Fri, 07 May 2021 02:21:19 -0700, Owain Lastname wrote:

On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 10:04:58 UTC+1, Scion wrote:
Venison is one of the most animal-friendly and environment-friendly
meats to eat.
I thought it was a little dear, though.

No kidding, I doe agree with you

Owain

Glad to see you're game.

On Thu, 6 May 2021 14:03:13 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 21:53:56 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
Even better. ;-)

That Co-op was a Safeway and used to be our weekly "big shop"

Ok.

Christmas dinner was bambi-balls
;-(

Venison is one of the most animal-friendly and environment-friendly meats to eat.

'Animal friendly', killing it? It's just that I'm sure it would
rather be doing what they do than laying in pieces on your plate?

And what when we take that further and more intensively farm them like
we do with cows, pigs, sheep and chickens?

My Mum used to hound the man with the yellow sticker gun (he was using
it, not her) in Tesco express and I guess that was something she had
just grown up doing, 'making ends meet' etc. Dad left her with a good
pension so she *really* doesn't need to now but still often does (of
course). The problem is she often buys 'bargains' that she doesn't
like and tries to give them to us. ;-(

I've got a stack of tinned fruit I bought as it was reduced.

Tinned stuff is always good because it lasts so long. We might have a
tin of mixed fruits with a vegan yogurt as a pud, if we don't have
fresh (and we generally have bananas, tangerines and apples).

I vary rarely eat tinned fruit, I just convince myself I do. I blame the episode of Porridge for convincing me subconsciously that a tin of pineapple chunks is a sought-after commodity.

;-)

We are giving our dog more fresh veg (more than might already be in
the kibble etc) and it's interesting watching him eat it all (veg,
'complete' kibble and tinned meat).

Someone's labrador visited the garden this week and stole the fat balls put out for the birds.

I asked a Labrador owner if it was ok to give his dog a treat with
ours (sociability training) and would his dog take it (some owners say
their dog won't take treats from others or are fussy about the treat
etc)?

His answer, 'it's a Labrador ...' (so at least an answer to one of the
questions). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 07/05/2021 10:04, Scion wrote:
On Thu, 06 May 2021 14:03:13 -0700, Owain Lastname wrote:

Venison is one of the most animal-friendly and environment-friendly
meats to eat.

I thought it was a little dear, though.


Only Muntjac deer

A bit on one of the early morning farming programs today said that with
much of hospitality closed they (or at least one large supplier) doesn't
currently have much of a market for venison at the moment and they have
been channelling a lot of meat in the form of mince to various charities.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 7 May 2021 08:03:48 +0100, alan_m
wrote:

On 06/05/2021 19:48, T i m wrote:

But hey-ho, if the Co-Op are only bringing the price of their vegan
range down to that that better match all the others, at least they
might benefit from that in the same way as Greggs have with their
(fairly restricted) vegan range and yet another place we know we can
pick stuff up if convenient etc. ;-)

It is all posturing. The Coop claim to have ethical policies and support
the community but its hardly supporting the poorer in society with their
pricing policy.

It's supporting everyone if it's to do with the environment?

Staying with friends in an area of the country where the only 3
supermarkets within a radius of 10 to 15 miles of where they live are
Co-op shows me how really expensive they are, and I don't live in a
"cheap" part of the country (S.E. Essex). My friends now get home
deliveries from the more distant mainstream big supermarkets - a service
expanded greatly in their area since the start of the covid pandemic.

Noted.

Better for us, better for them, better for the animals and better for
(all of our) environment. ;-)

It's easy to have price parity between goods if you have high prices to
start with.

Of course.

Surely vegan "substitute food" should be cheaper anyway as
the raw ingredients are cheaper?

It will be, as demand further increases and as subsidies on the animal
based stuff is removed.

Perhaps some organisations have
realised that a fool and his money are soon parted and there is a lot of
money to be made from the vegan fad while it lasts?

It's not a fad, it's a lifestyle choice for people who don't want to
contribute cruelty and exploitation of animals and has been growing in
popularity for years. Many million people have been doing this for
thousands of years of course, but just not under the name 'vegan'
(which was invented to differentiate them from vegetarians).

If the co-op are embracing veganism as part of their ethical policies
shouldn't that also stop selling meat, milk, butter, eggs, fish etc.?

Not if they don't want to become a purely 'vegan supplier' as many
places now are.

I'm not sure why vegans are paying more for food.

Depends on what food you are talking about? They aren't paying more
for the things that non vegans regularly buy, like fruit and veg?

When I go and buy
fruit and vegetables, nuts, spicy bean burgers and a variety of other
goods I don't seem to be paying more than anyone else, however I don't
get these items from the vegan aisle!

No, and nor do we, but some places make it easier for those who only
want to buy vegan products to group them together so they don't have
to traipse around all the animal carcasses to get their burgers.

Personally, I don't mind if they are just in with similar things
because that way others might see them when they might not realise
that 'vegan food' is for everyone ... '(or just 'food without
unnecessary animal cruelty' as we call it.) ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 7 May 2021 08:56:44 +0000 (UTC), RJH
wrote:

snip

I wonder when we'll* stop obsessing about price and think about wider costs
like animal welfare, sustainable farming and working conditions? Barely a
mention in this thread - just money.

Good point Rob and I think one answer will be where there is a
critical mass of vegans to make others realise it's more 'normal' (for
an evolved human in 2021) to not treat animals the way some currently
do. (Aligning their actions with their morals).

* those who can afford to choose

Again, something that will / is changing as the popularity for a vegan
lifestyle increases and quantity of scale and competition forces the
prices down, that along with making the meat / dairy / egg farmers pay
the real cost of their 'output' and removing any subsidies for any
food stuffs that aren't sustainable (like meat, dairy and eggs).

As mentioned elsewhere, how can a box of blueberries be more expensive
than a chunk of beef?

Start charging any industry for the cost of it's pollution or fining
it for polluting (that impacts all of us) are sometimes the only way
you can get these industries to change, and they either change or go
bust (demonstrating that they weren't really viable in the first
place, when the true costs are considered).

As we remove livestock from areas that are just feeding livestock
(directly or indirectly) we can grow human consumable produce on much
of it and it's suggested that if we were only to use those areas that
is easily viable, there would still be more than enough area to grow
more food than we need.

I was thinking about eggs and how we think that it's ok to keep taking
the eggs away from them (any bird) and that's 'ok'.

eg, In nature a bird would lay a clutch of eggs (say 1 to 5 typically)
then stop, incubate them, see them fledge and eventually 'leave the
nest' and wouldn't keep doing that all year round, just in the
'breeding season'?

Why do we disassociate chickens from these same birds and so think
it's ok to keep taking the eggs away, forcing them to carry on
creating eggs (in an unnatural quantity) until they are exhausted and
killed, simply because they are no longer productive at that
industrial level?

Cheers, T i m

"Spike" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2021 07:03, alan_m wrote:

It's easy to have price parity between goods if you have high prices to
start with. Surely vegan "substitute food" should be cheaper anyway as
the raw ingredients are cheaper?

Perhaps the high cost of vegan foods comes from the extra processing
needed, with the consequent extra burden on the environment and its
effect on climate change, in order to make them look like, taste like,
smell like, and cook like the very things they are substituting for,
because vegans miss their meat.

Yup

processing veggies to look like, taste like, etc meat is just daft

it should be banned IMHO



--
Spike

On 07/05/2021 12:23, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 6 May 2021 14:03:13 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 21:53:56 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
Even better. ;-)

That Co-op was a Safeway and used to be our weekly "big shop"

Ok.

Christmas dinner was bambi-balls
;-(

Venison is one of the most animal-friendly and environment-friendly meats to eat.

'Animal friendly', killing it? It's just that I'm sure it would
rather be doing what they do than laying in pieces on your plate?

And what when we take that further and more intensively farm them like
we do with cows, pigs, sheep and chickens?

My Mum used to hound the man with the yellow sticker gun (he was using
it, not her) in Tesco express and I guess that was something she had
just grown up doing, 'making ends meet' etc. Dad left her with a good
pension so she *really* doesn't need to now but still often does (of
course). The problem is she often buys 'bargains' that she doesn't
like and tries to give them to us. ;-(

I've got a stack of tinned fruit I bought as it was reduced.

Tinned stuff is always good because it lasts so long. We might have a
tin of mixed fruits with a vegan yogurt as a pud, if we don't have
fresh (and we generally have bananas, tangerines and apples).

I vary rarely eat tinned fruit, I just convince myself I do. I blame the episode of Porridge for convincing me subconsciously that a tin of pineapple chunks is a sought-after commodity.

;-)

We are giving our dog more fresh veg (more than might already be in
the kibble etc) and it's interesting watching him eat it all (veg,
'complete' kibble and tinned meat).

Someone's labrador visited the garden this week and stole the fat balls put out for the birds.

I asked a Labrador owner if it was ok to give his dog a treat with
ours (sociability training) and would his dog take it (some owners say
their dog won't take treats from others or are fussy about the treat
etc)?

His answer, 'it's a Labrador ...' (so at least an answer to one of the
questions). ;-)

I see a common theme. The Labrador would hanker after food its loved one
would say they couldn't have.

On 07/05/2021 08:03, alan_m wrote:
On 06/05/2021 19:48, T i m wrote:

But hey-ho, if the Co-Op are only bringing the price of their vegan
range down to that that better match all the others, at least they
might benefit from that in the same way as Greggs have with their
(fairly restricted) vegan range and yet another place we know we can
pick stuff up if convenient etc. ;-)

It is all posturing. The Coop claim to have ethical policies and support
the community but its hardly supporting the poorer in society with their
pricing policy.

Staying with friends in an area of the country where the only 3
supermarkets within a radius of 10 to 15 miles of where they live are
Co-op shows me how really expensive they are, and I don't live in a
"cheap" part of the country (S.E. Essex). My friends now get home
deliveries from the more distant mainstream big supermarkets - a service
expanded greatly in their area since the start of the covid pandemic.

Better for us, better for them, better for the animals and better for
(all of our) environment. ;-)

It's easy to have price parity between goods if you have high prices to
start with. Surely vegan "substitute food" should be cheaper anyway as
the raw ingredients are cheaper?Â* Perhaps some organisations have
realised that a fool and his money are soon parted and there is a lot of
money to be made from the vegan fad while it lasts?

If the co-op are embracing veganism as part of their ethical policies
shouldn't that also stop selling meat, milk, butter, eggs, fish etc.?

Or even Halal meat.

I'm not sure why vegans are paying more for food. When I go and buy
fruit and vegetables, nuts, spicy bean burgers and a variety of other
goods I don't seem to be paying more than anyone else, however I don't
get these items from the vegan aisle!

I think vegans are willing to pay more, so shops can charge more. Being
a low volume produce doesn't help.

On Fri, 7 May 2021 13:31:21 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

processing veggies to look like, taste like, etc meat is just daft

Why, how is it impacting you?

it should be banned IMHO

Because?

See, all it's about is to cater for the familiarisation people have
with certain foods, you know, when they had the idea of taking the
flesh of an animal and forcing it into the intestines of an animal to
form it into tubes?

So, people still want to buy tubes of things but without the cruelty
and so they make them like that but from plants?

People (especially very old / blinkered / backward looking people) are
very resistant to change and so they have to make such things for them
so they don't get confused what they are and how they might cook / eat
them.

From a more practical POV, if you form minced up animal parts (inc
eyeballs and arseholes) and push it into an intestine tube, but
someone wants to eat a similar looking dinner at the same time but
without all that gunge, making a plant based alternative look / cook
similarly means they can both be cooked at the same time and served
similarly.

'Vegans' don't demand food is made in such a way / shape.

Cheers, T i m

On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 18:44:18 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 06/05/2021 14:49, T i m wrote:
It looks like the CoOp are leading a drive to reduce the disparity
between the cost of meat and animal_cruelty_free alternatives.


https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-...--7909926.html
In my experience the Coop is the most expensive retailer of food items
in the market place, especially where they have a near monopoly in rural
areas.

Not as expensive as the students union appear to be.
But I'll have to recheck when they are open again.

So for me it's lunch from the coop meal deals which I prefer to the sainsbury version
which is also a bit further to walk.


Currently (1pm) there was a queue to get into the pub.


Around my way where there is competition from not only the main
supermarkets, both German supermarkets and quite a few independents
their stores have closed over the past decade.

There's a german kebab place that always seems to have a few delivery people waiting outside
to take ordres to the lazy.





--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 07/05/2021 13:09, T i m wrote:

People (especially very old / blinkered / backward looking people) are
very resistant to change and so they have to make such things for them
so they don't get confused what they are and how they might cook / eat
them.

Don't be so pessimistic.

Your 'holier than thou' approach to your campaign might be more
convincing if, like me, you had stopped eating beef and lamb some 40
years ago instead of just a few months.. You have a long way to go to
make up for your inaction.

--
Spike

On 07/05/2021 11:36, T i m wrote:
alan_m wrote:

It is all posturing. The Coop claim to have ethical policies and support
the community but its hardly supporting the poorer in society with their
pricing policy.

It's supporting everyone if it's to do with the environment?

The flaw in your argument us that, in order to get vegetables to look
like, smell like, and taste like meat (for some strange reason?), they
need extra environment-polluting processing and probably extra storage.
So perhaps there is less benefit to the environment than your posts
suggests.

--
Spike

On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 18:52:41 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 14:49:44 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
It looks like the CoOp are leading a drive to reduce the disparity
between the cost of meat and animal_cruelty_free alternatives.
https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-...--7909926.html

The prices the Co-op charge for stuff, they can slash their prices all they want. It's like Allied Carpets having a "Sale".
Whilst that might be the case 'generally', I'm not sure it applies to
this particular move.

I've always found the coop to be more expensive because they claim to be more ethical whether that is true or not I don;t know.
Butn I'll use whatever is more convient for me at the time and don't mind paying a bit more.
But I can get 4 bottles of spitfire in aldi for the same price as 3 bottles at the coop.


And the Co-op would love to see us reducing our emissions as the only way they can sell more overpriced stuff in their convenience stores is if people can't take the car or bus to proper supermarkets.
Personally, I don't really like 'proper supermarkets', too big.
Which is why most Co-ops are in places where people already can't afford a car or bus.
So no CoOp in any of the 'well off' areas then?

well most of the flats/houses in mile end road are quite expensive it seems £450k + for a small 2 bed flat
Even the students pay around £130 per week for a 1 bed flat.


Bcause they're more expensive than bloody Waitrose.

Ok. I rarely (if I ever have) used Waitrose so I'll be guided by you.
And they don't even sell aubergines (Co-op that is.)
They can keep them (any of them that is). ;-)

waitrose a bit far from me too, well a few hundred metres that is.


Pineapple Co-op £1.15, Aldi 59p, Waitrose £1
6 Tomatoes Co-op 75p, Aldi 49p, Waitrose 75p
Mushrooms Co-op 200g £1, Aldi 250g 49p, Waitrose 250g £1
So, product for product you are paying roughly the same in Co-Op as
Waitrose but both are more than Aldi. I'm not sure that would be a
surprise to most people.

It's also depends on whether it is truelly the same product.
Aldi to there version of feta and red pepper rolls ~50p cheaper and they are tasteless.
Comparted to the sainsburys ones from a differnt producer.

My meal deal today was a vegan' chicken tiki sandwich whch was OK
but the white bread a bit bland , why can't they use the same bread as they do in their chicken
salad sarines. Also wish their cheese sandwiches were better value , don;t seem to contain much cheese
for the money.


We just picked up a couple of packs of 'wraps' (£1 for 6) and a lovely
box of mixed salad from the kebab shop for £4 and that will, with the
addition of some vegan chicken make the two of us at least two easy /
healthy meals each (probably 3 this time as the manager served me and
is particularly generous). ;-)

reminds me of a Dr. who episode set in WWII

Oh and as for vegan products it;s not always as vegan and some might thing

Did you see this about olive oil which is vegan in the eyes of most,
well best not to put it in your eyes but you know what I mean. :-)

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/food...ng-bird-deaths

On 07/05/2021 09:56, RJH wrote:


I wonder when we'll* stop obsessing about price and think about wider costs
like animal welfare, sustainable farming and working conditions? Barely a
mention in this thread - just money.

But sticking a label on something saying vegan or organic often doesn't
mean those products are any better for animal welfare or sustainable
farming, or for climate change with all the food miles they travel.




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 08:03:50 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 06/05/2021 19:48, T i m wrote:

But hey-ho, if the Co-Op are only bringing the price of their vegan
range down to that that better match all the others, at least they
might benefit from that in the same way as Greggs have with their
(fairly restricted) vegan range and yet another place we know we can
pick stuff up if convenient etc. ;-)
It is all posturing. The Coop claim to have ethical policies and support
the community but its hardly supporting the poorer in society with their
pricing policy.

Staying with friends in an area of the country where the only 3
supermarkets within a radius of 10 to 15 miles of where they live are
Co-op shows me how really expensive they are, and I don't live in a
"cheap" part of the country (S.E. Essex). My friends now get home
deliveries from the more distant mainstream big supermarkets - a service
expanded greatly in their area since the start of the covid pandemic.
Better for us, better for them, better for the animals and better for
(all of our) environment. ;-)
It's easy to have price parity between goods if you have high prices to
start with. Surely vegan "substitute food" should be cheaper anyway as
the raw ingredients are cheaper?

Not really when you can get pre-cooked ready to eat studd from take-aways.
2 chicken wings and chups for £1 is difficult to beat price wise.

Perhaps some organisations have
realised that a fool and his money are soon parted and there is a lot of
money to be made from the vegan fad while it lasts?

Not sure that is true as people are fooled by buligar cavair
and it's the mid priced wines that have the biggest markup on them.
So it's those paying abpout £8 for a bottle of wine that are the most fooled.
I'd stick to my £3.99 thunderbird ;-)



If the co-op are embracing veganism as part of their ethical policies
shouldn't that also stop selling meat, milk, butter, eggs, fish etc.?

Well thre's a differnce to embracing and totalling converting.

it's like those that want to help the enviroment, will they give up flying to another country,,
will they give up their cars, their gas central heating.
Will those against slavery boycotte the tate gallery which was built from the profits
of slaverery.


I'm not sure why vegans are paying more for food.

They aren't, it's mostly due to supply and demand.

And if you grow your own in the garden of have an allottment it hardly costs anything.

When I go and buy
fruit and vegetables, nuts, spicy bean burgers and a variety of other
goods I don't seem to be paying more than anyone else, however I don't
get these items from the vegan aisle!

I doubt most vegans do, friends of mine that have been veggies for years
wouldn't be fooled by this.
But who is stupid enough to pay money to go to an art gallery to see painting
that an artist couldn't sell in his liftime, if they were crap then why aren't they still crap
but cost millions to buy ?




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 12:23:19 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 6 May 2021 14:03:13 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 21:53:56 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
Even better. ;-)

That Co-op was a Safeway and used to be our weekly "big shop"
Ok.

Christmas dinner was bambi-balls
;-(

Venison is one of the most animal-friendly and environment-friendly meats to eat.
'Animal friendly', killing it? It's just that I'm sure it would
rather be doing what they do than laying in pieces on your plate?

But that wouldn;t be their choice their choice would be which of them starves to death
and which lives a hungar ridden life.
Remmber that they have no natural preditors in the UK, no wolves etc..
so they just breed and there ends up to many of them for the local area to sustain.


And what when we take that further and more intensively farm them like
we do with cows, pigs, sheep and chickens?

That's differnt we don't let them starve to death,we are more likely to feed them up.
I'm not saying it's right but it is a fact. We won;t even let the runt of the litter die,
well get a vet in if it'll help profits, either make it well or kill it, but not leave it to suffer.



My Mum used to hound the man with the yellow sticker gun (he was using
it, not her) in Tesco express and I guess that was something she had
just grown up doing, 'making ends meet' etc. Dad left her with a good
pension so she *really* doesn't need to now but still often does (of
course). The problem is she often buys 'bargains' that she doesn't
like and tries to give them to us. ;-(

I've got a stack of tinned fruit I bought as it was reduced.
Tinned stuff is always good because it lasts so long.

and frozen.
I had 6 of those delmonti (part of your one a day) ice lollies
think I OD'd as I ended up with the guts ache.

On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 12:52:32 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 7 May 2021 08:56:44 +0000 (UTC), RJH
wrote:

snip
I wonder when we'll* stop obsessing about price and think about wider costs
like animal welfare, sustainable farming and working conditions? Barely a
mention in this thread - just money.
Good point Rob and I think one answer will be where there is a
critical mass of vegans to make others realise it's more 'normal' (for
an evolved human in 2021) to not treat animals the way some currently
do. (Aligning their actions with their morals).

First they have to realise what's going on, and whether it is cruel or just nature,
with us at the top of the food chain.
I was atv a Spanish wedding in spain years ago as my veggie frinds ask for
some nom meat food. They were asked why they don't eat meat as that's what God put animals on the Earth for .
I expected a massive arguement and raised voives but my veggie friends just shook their heads and walked away.

I did ask my veggoe frined recently whether thier olive oil was vegan, they lok at me confused and said of course it's
not meat and its not cruel to pick them.

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/food...ng-bird-deaths
So I left them trying to work out were their olive oil comes from.



* those who can afford to choose
Again, something that will / is changing as the popularity for a vegan
lifestyle increases and quantity of scale and competition forces the
prices down, that along with making the meat / dairy / egg farmers pay
the real cost of their 'output' and removing any subsidies for any
food stuffs that aren't sustainable (like meat, dairy and eggs).

yes a lot of political back handers especailly in the EU, where everyone is expected to contribute
their money to fund cheap meat production and dairy.
You're tax money has gone into this in the past, whether that will continue though
is a little uncertain.


As mentioned elsewhere, how can a box of blueberries be more expensive
than a chunk of beef?

How can a pint of beer (mostly water) be more expensive than cola , orange juice or even tea.
But don;t forget how expensive was but its now so cheap to get it from the other side
of the world, but is tea vegan ?


Start charging any industry for the cost of it's pollution or fining
it for polluting (that impacts all of us) are sometimes the only way
you can get these industries to change, and they either change or go
bust (demonstrating that they weren't really viable in the first
place, when the true costs are considered).

That would be very difficult to do, even if it's the right thing.
It's like raising the price of petrol a few fold to offset it;s damage.
How many would support that ?


As we remove livestock from areas that are just feeding livestock
(directly or indirectly) we can grow human consumable produce on much
of it and it's suggested that if we were only to use those areas that
is easily viable, there would still be more than enough area to grow
more food than we need.

I think it;s more difficult to transport things like fresh veg from the other side of the world that
it is to do the same with frozen meat.


I was thinking about eggs and how we think that it's ok to keep taking
the eggs away from them (any bird) and that's 'ok'.

Maybe they just get used to it.
In todays world in the UK if yuo have gets you don't expect them to die from hunger
por disease this is not so true in africa, such things are expected, it;s why they have so many children per adult.
Which is also the same with animals.

eg, In nature a bird would lay a clutch of eggs (say 1 to 5 typically)
then stop, incubate them, see them fledge and eventually 'leave the
nest' and wouldn't keep doing that all year round, just in the
'breeding season'?

So why does a spider lay 1000s of eegs ?


Why do we disassociate chickens from these same birds and so think
it's ok to keep taking the eggs away, forcing them to carry on
creating eggs (in an unnatural quantity) until they are exhausted and
killed, simply because they are no longer productive at that
industrial level?

My veggies friends parents keep chicken and they do eat their eggs
but the are not commercaily sold adn I don;t think they force them to lay eggs.


Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 7 May 2021 05:55:29 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 12:23:19 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
Venison is one of the most animal-friendly and environment-friendly meats to eat.
'Animal friendly', killing it? It's just that I'm sure it would
rather be doing what they do than laying in pieces on your plate?

It could live starving in a hedge somewhere, which is what happens when deer aren't managed.

Oh, I wonder how they managed for the thousands (millions?) of years
before we arrived?

And what when we take that further and more intensively farm them like
we do with cows, pigs, sheep and chickens?

Not sure that will ever be possible.

We camped near a 'reindeer farm' about 20 years ago so it's been
possible to some level for a long time.

A lot of venison sold in the UK is farmed in New Zealand. I'd rather see and support UK production.

So would I, production of food without all the cruelty, exploitation
and death.

Cheers, T i m