"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , JNugent
writes
On 07/04/2021 03:41 pm, GB wrote:
On 07/04/2021 15:03, T i m wrote:

Talking of inconsiderate people g, it seems there is a report that
has suggested the SUV's are the top 10 vehicles in the list of most
polluting vehicles used in cities and the owners the least likely to
take them (inc the 4WD ones) off road.

The reason they are so high on the list is that the marketing is the
most aggressive because the profit margins are the greatest.

People don't 'need' these SUVs (in the main and especially in the
inner city) but are made to believe they do by the marketing.

They get used for the school run. Half a dozen yummies take turns
picking up and dropping off each other's children, and so they need
fairly large vehicles to fit them all in. A people carrier or large SUV
fits the bill.

I know this has come up before (in other NGs), but in fact, are these
"SUVs" really any bigger (wider / longer) in footprint than very ordinary
cars from makers such as Skoda, Peugeot, Citroen, Vauxhall and Ford?

No

They are both wider and longer than the small cars from
Hyundai and Toyota with the Getz and Jazz respectively.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 08 Apr 2021 at 20:47:30 BST, JNugent wrote:

On 07/04/2021 03:41 pm, GB wrote:
On 07/04/2021 15:03, T i m wrote:

Talking of inconsiderate people g, it seems there is a report that
has suggested the SUV's are the top 10 vehicles in the list of most
polluting vehicles used in cities and the owners the least likely to
take them (inc the 4WD ones) off road.

The reason they are so high on the list is that the marketing is the
most aggressive because the profit margins are the greatest.

People don't 'need' these SUVs (in the main and especially in the
inner city) but are made to believe they do by the marketing.
They get used for the school run. Half a dozen yummies take turns
picking up and dropping off each other's children, and so they need
fairly large vehicles to fit them all in. A people carrier or large SUV
fits the bill.

I know this has come up before (in other NGs), but in fact, are these
"SUVs" really any bigger (wider / longer) in footprint than very ordinary
cars from makers such as Skoda, Peugeot, Citroen, Vauxhall and Ford?

They appear to be taller.

Not only appear to be, they actually are much taller.

Not sure if they're wider door-handle to door-handle.

They are than the smallest cars most manufacturers have.

I can sleep on the back seat sideways across the car
with normal cars but not with the smallest models
most have like the Getz and Jazz.

On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 08:58:48 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



I know this has come up before (in other NGs), but in fact, are these
"SUVs" really any bigger (wider / longer) in footprint than very ordinary
cars from makers such as Skoda, Peugeot, Citroen, Vauxhall and Ford?

No

They are both wider and longer than the small cars from
Hyundai and Toyota with the Getz and Jazz respectively.

You just HAVE to auto-contradict, you clinically insane senile pest! LOL

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 09:06:06 +1000, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

They appear to be taller.

Not only appear to be, they actually are much taller.

Post PROOF, senile bull**** artist!

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On 08/04/2021 13:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 08/04/2021 11:14, Andrew wrote:
On 07/04/2021 19:17, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2021 17:38:30 +0100, charles
wrote:

snip

I think they were saying that one EV was sold for every 37 SUV's and
from their observation, very few were required by their owners for the
characteristics that they offered, so was more a lifestyle choice

some 20 years ago, my daughter had a cartoon from the Telegraph weekend
supplement pinned up in her kitchen. In the female character was
saying "I
want my child to have wide open space, security and fresh air. So we've
bought a large 4x4 with aircondtioning and central locking."

Â* ;-)

What's new?

More cars and people in the same space?

Bigger cars (and more of them) in the same space.

If we all still drove BMC minis, Hillman imps and Bond bugs the
increased number of cars would be less of a problem.
wish I still had my 1963 mini 850 ......

Buy one.
Nice little one in the Netherlands for sale:
https://www.classic-trader.com/uk/ca...en/1963/232359

or in the UK and a bit cheaper and younger:
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1312780

On 08/04/2021 20:50, JNugent wrote:
On 07/04/2021 08:10 pm, Rod Speed wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message

[ ... ]

Talking of inconsiderate people g, it seems there is a report that
has suggested the SUV's are the top 10 vehicles in the list of most
polluting vehicles used in cities and the owners the least likely to
take them (inc the 4WD ones) off road.
The reason they are so high on the list is that the marketing is the
most aggressive because the profit margins are the greatest.
People don't 'need' these SUVs (in the main and especially in the
inner city) but are made to believe they do by the marketing.

Nope, women drivers feel safer in them, even tho they are actually
less safe in reality.

Less safe for the occupants?

Far less safe for any person outside the vehicle that they
might hit

On 09/04/2021 08:42, JohnP wrote:
Quite simply - in a queue of traffic the cars should be like wagons on a
train. They close up when stationery and spread out when moving - But above
all stay in the same order unless exceptional circumstances.


You keep using the "wagons on a train" thing. Ever thought of selling
the car and going by train?

On 10/04/2021 18:58, Tim+ wrote:


I was following a very clean 1988 Rolls Royce Silver Spirit yesterday and
from the back, it really didnt look any bigger than a Mondeo. Back in 88
Im sure it was huge but its now only €œmedium-big€�.

Tim


It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road
and notice how small it is in comparision to todays
'small' cars. Ditto 1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends
father was a bank manager and in the 1960's they drove to
the South of France towing a caravan behind their Hillman minx
and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road
and notice how small it is in comparision to todays
'small' cars. Ditto 1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends
father was a bank manager and in the 1960's they drove to
the South of France towing a caravan behind their Hillman minx
and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

I'm amazed at how *narrow* old cars were, and yet I wasn't aware of
constantly rubbing shoulders with the person next to me, or my shoulder
forever hitting the door pillars.

Probably due to less side-impact protection in the doors.

I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the driver's
right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the Hillman Hunter. In
a modern car the seat edge almost touches the inside of the door (including
door pockets etc).

On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 08:07:28 GMT, JohnP wrote:

snip

I must have a vivid imagination! Able to create analogies!

"Quite simply - in a queue of traffic the cars should be like wagons
on a train. They close up when stationery and spread out when moving
-"

And they do of course.

"But above all stay in the same order unless exceptional
circumstances."

Perfectly valid observation.

I don't think that analogy is particularly vivid, especially to a
right brainer *with* a typical imagination. ;-)

To a left brainer / troll / bot it isn't what they are able to see so
(of course) they will be unwilling to 'go along with', let alone
accept / understand.

Maybe a better description than left brainer (someone who is
LBDominant) is 'Cold and prickly', as opposed to someone who is a
right brainer (RBDominant) who could be described as 'warm and fuzzy'.

Glass half empty over half full etc.

Be as cold and prickly as some here in a pub to a stranger (round here
anyway) and you would likely wake up in an ambulance. ;-)

The problem ITRW is that people feel enclosed / isolated in their
vehicles in a way they might not be unless in a large group in any
other public place and so can (and do) act differently than they might
otherwise.

Innocent mistakes are seen (especially by the left brainers) as a
direct act against them and so the red mist starts to rise and then
anyone can get caught up in how they react next.

Round here there is a bit of road where the parked cars, always along
one side are parking illegally (because they reduce the road to less
than two car widths) but because paring it tight round there, no one
says / does anything about it (It really should have double yellows
both sides but it actually adds a form of chicane, slowing / deterring
the rat runners so not a bad thing).

Now, legally, anyone approaching on the same side of the road as the
parked cars should give way (the obstruction on their side) but it's
easier for cars coming from the other direction to give way, even
though they have right of way.

Now, anyone who knows the area knows how this works but if they don't,
it can (and sometimes does) end in all sorts of stand offs.

It works best, most efficiently when people do what works the easiest
for *all parties*, even though it might mean giving your right of way
away, being proactive, kind and considerate.

Cheers, T i m

On 09/04/2021 14:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Amazing how many people like driving something the size of a van.


Order of preference for driving my vehicles (not including tractor)

1. Transit LWB high top 3.5
2. Merc 709D
3. Volvo car

Bill

On 10/04/2021 15:11, Fredxx wrote:

Your Rover might match this but I doubt it is as refined or will get the
mpg of this pretty standard van. You will be high up and can anticipate
what the car in front, or the car in front of that, will do.

When I have a passenger in the van they always say how great it is to be
high up. And when I show off the acceleration they say, "Bloody 'ell it
goes like **** off a shovel!"

Bill

On 08/04/2021 11:14, Andrew wrote:
If we all still drove BMC minis, Hillman imps and Bond bugs the
increased number of cars would be less of a problem.

There'd be more deaths.

Bill

On 08/04/2021 11:48, NY wrote:
There was a sad case in the USA some years ago where a railway ran
parallel and close to a road which had traffic lights to control access
from a side road over a level crossing on the railway.

Take a look at Kiveton Park Station. Nightmare.

Bill

On 08/04/2021 10:16, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2021 21:55:37 GMT, JohnP wrote:

ces of their selfish actions and have added
another 5 minutes on the journey time to for no justifiable /
unavoidable reason.

In a different vein it also frustrates us when someone at the end of a
string of cars stops to let us cross, rather than carrying on past and
letting us cross in the massive gap behind them and the next batch of
cars (for the extra pollution that causes if nothing else).


Spot on - likewise the "flasher" who waves a car out of a side turn -
oblivious to what is coming the other way. Just wanting a "nice" credit.

Well, I don't know how many people do it for that reason (unless they
know them possibly), rather than they just aren't seeing the bigger
picture?

I really believe many people turn off their brain as they turn on
their car engine.

Or they change character, pushing into queues in a way they wouldn't
dare to if on foot.

On the road-space one, another thing that get's me are people parking
in bays that are beside / parallel to the road where they don't park
right close to the end (meaning a bay can now only take 2 not 3 cars).
Similarly, parking 7/8ths of a cars length from a car that's obviously
at the end of any parking space (like on the road beside an access
road) when the front car can just drive out so you only need to leave
enough space to get out yourself assuming someone parks close behind
you or the person in front needs to get access to the rear of their
vehicle (like an estate to get dogs back in after a walk etc).

I often give them the benefit of the doubt and assume there may have
been a motorcycle or longer vehicle parked there but the chances are
there wasn't (as I've sometimes seen them parking).

Cheers, T i m



When you were a prefect at school did you enjoy it? Did you ever
consider a job as a traffic warden or policeman? Do you volunteer to
direct the traffic at local festivals? Are you the admin of a Facebook
group? Do your children keep secrets from you? Would you vote for a
political party that would force people to eat less meat? Do you
sometimes wonder why almost no-one except you obeys the rules?

Bill

On 11/04/2021 12:17 pm, NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road
and notice how small it is in comparision to todays
'small' cars. Ditto 1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends
father was a bank manager and in the 1960's they drove to
the South of France towing a caravan behind their Hillman minx
and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

I'm amazed at how *narrow* old cars were, and yet I wasn't aware of
constantly rubbing shoulders with the person next to me, or my shoulder
forever hitting the door pillars.

Probably due to less side-impact protection in the doors.

I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the driver's
right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the Hillman
Hunter. In a modern car the seat edge almost touches the inside of the
door (including door pockets etc).

My brother had a Hunter GT and I often used to drive it (circa 1974 /
1975). I don't remember the brake lever being between the driver's seat
and door.

On 10/04/2021 11:58 pm, Rod Speed wrote:


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , JNugent
writes
On 07/04/2021 03:41 pm, GB wrote:
On 07/04/2021 15:03, T i m wrote:

Talking of inconsiderate people g, it seems there is a report that
has suggested the SUV's are the top 10 vehicles in the list of most
polluting vehicles used in cities and the owners the least likely to
take them (inc the 4WD ones) off road.

The reason they are so high on the list is that the marketing is the
most aggressive because the profit margins are the greatest.

People don't 'need' these SUVs (in the main and especially in the
inner city) but are made to believe they do by the marketing.

Â*They get used for the school run. Half a dozen yummies take turns
picking up and dropping off each other's children, and so they need
fairly large vehicles to fit them all in. A people carrier or large
SUV fits the bill.

I know this has come up before (in other NGs), but in fact, are these
"SUVs" really any bigger (wider / longer) in footprint than very
ordinary cars from makers such as Skoda, Peugeot, Citroen, Vauxhall
and Ford?

No

They are both wider and longer than the small cars from
Hyundai and Toyota with the Getz and Jazz respectively.

Well, yes, but I was referring to standard size cars rather than to
minis or superminis.

On 11/04/2021 05:27 pm, JNugent wrote:
On 11/04/2021 12:17 pm, NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road
and notice how small it is in comparision to todays
'small' cars. Ditto 1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends
father was a bank manager and in the 1960's they drove to
the South of France towing a caravan behind their Hillman minx
and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

I'm amazed at how *narrow* old cars were, and yet I wasn't aware of
constantly rubbing shoulders with the person next to me, or my
shoulder forever hitting the door pillars.

Probably due to less side-impact protection in the doors.

I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the driver's
right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the Hillman
Hunter. In a modern car the seat edge almost touches the inside of the
door (including door pockets etc).

My brother had a Hunter GT and I often used to drive it (circa 1974 /
1975). I don't remember the brake lever being between the driver's seat
and door.

UPDATE: I rang him and he clearly remembered the brake lever being down
on the RHS of the driving seat. That had definitely not stayed in my memory.

In article ,
JNugent wrote:
On 11/04/2021 12:17 pm, NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road
and notice how small it is in comparision to todays
'small' cars. Ditto 1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends
father was a bank manager and in the 1960's they drove to
the South of France towing a caravan behind their Hillman minx
and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

I'm amazed at how *narrow* old cars were, and yet I wasn't aware of
constantly rubbing shoulders with the person next to me, or my shoulder
forever hitting the door pillars.

Probably due to less side-impact protection in the doors.

I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the driver's
right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the Hillman
Hunter. In a modern car the seat edge almost touches the inside of the
door (including door pockets etc).

My brother had a Hunter GT and I often used to drive it (circa 1974 /
1975). I don't remember the brake lever being between the driver's seat
and door.

my father had a Rootes car (Sceptre?). It had a bench front seat, so the
handbrake had to fit between the driver's seat and the door.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

charles wrote:
In article ,
JNugent wrote:
On 11/04/2021 12:17 pm, NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road
and notice how small it is in comparision to todays
'small' cars. Ditto 1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends
father was a bank manager and in the 1960's they drove to
the South of France towing a caravan behind their Hillman minx
and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

I'm amazed at how *narrow* old cars were, and yet I wasn't aware of
constantly rubbing shoulders with the person next to me, or my shoulder
forever hitting the door pillars.

Probably due to less side-impact protection in the doors.

I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the driver's
right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the Hillman
Hunter. In a modern car the seat edge almost touches the inside of the
door (including door pockets etc).

My brother had a Hunter GT and I often used to drive it (circa 1974 /
1975). I don't remember the brake lever being between the driver's seat
and door.

my father had a Rootes car (Sceptre?). It had a bench front seat, so the
handbrake had to fit between the driver's seat and the door.


No €œhad to€� about it. Youre forgetting under dash €œumbrella€� style
handbrakes that you pulled (and foot operated parking brakes although Im
not sure these were ever popular in the UK).

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 11/04/2021 18:05, charles wrote:
In article ,
JNugent wrote:
On 11/04/2021 12:17 pm, NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road
and notice how small it is in comparision to todays
'small' cars. Ditto 1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends
father was a bank manager and in the 1960's they drove to
the South of France towing a caravan behind their Hillman minx
and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

I'm amazed at how *narrow* old cars were, and yet I wasn't aware of
constantly rubbing shoulders with the person next to me, or my shoulder
forever hitting the door pillars.

Probably due to less side-impact protection in the doors.

I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the driver's
right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the Hillman
Hunter. In a modern car the seat edge almost touches the inside of the
door (including door pockets etc).

My brother had a Hunter GT and I often used to drive it (circa 1974 /
1975). I don't remember the brake lever being between the driver's seat
and door.

my father had a Rootes car (Sceptre?). It had a bench front seat, so the
handbrake had to fit between the driver's seat and the door.

my 62' sunbeam alpine was like that ......

On 11/04/2021 18:30, Tim+ wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
JNugent wrote:
On 11/04/2021 12:17 pm, NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road
and notice how small it is in comparision to todays
'small' cars. Ditto 1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends
father was a bank manager and in the 1960's they drove to
the South of France towing a caravan behind their Hillman minx
and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

I'm amazed at how *narrow* old cars were, and yet I wasn't aware of
constantly rubbing shoulders with the person next to me, or my shoulder
forever hitting the door pillars.

Probably due to less side-impact protection in the doors.

I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the driver's
right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the Hillman
Hunter. In a modern car the seat edge almost touches the inside of the
door (including door pockets etc).

My brother had a Hunter GT and I often used to drive it (circa 1974 /
1975). I don't remember the brake lever being between the driver's seat
and door.

my father had a Rootes car (Sceptre?). It had a bench front seat, so the
handbrake had to fit between the driver's seat and the door.


No €œhad to€� about it. Youre forgetting under dash €œumbrella€� style
handbrakes that you pulled (and foot operated parking brakes although Im
not sure these were ever popular in the UK).

Tim

my 66' mustang had an umbrella and my '98 merc had a foot operated
one.....had them all...tee hee......

On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 16:24:03 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

snip

When you were a prefect at school did you enjoy it? Did you ever
consider a job as a traffic warden or policeman? Do you volunteer to
direct the traffic at local festivals? Are you the admin of a Facebook
group? Do your children keep secrets from you? Would you vote for a
political party that would force people to eat less meat? Do you
sometimes wonder why almost no-one except you obeys the rules?


Bit early to be drinking Bill?

Cheers, T i m

In article
,
Tim+ wrote:
charles wrote:
In article , JNugent
wrote:
On 11/04/2021 12:17 pm, NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road and
notice how small it is in comparision to todays 'small' cars. Ditto
1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends father was a bank manager and
in the 1960's they drove to the South of France towing a caravan
behind their Hillman minx and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

I'm amazed at how *narrow* old cars were, and yet I wasn't aware of
constantly rubbing shoulders with the person next to me, or my
shoulder forever hitting the door pillars.

Probably due to less side-impact protection in the doors.

I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the
driver's right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the
Hillman Hunter. In a modern car the seat edge almost touches the
inside of the door (including door pockets etc).

My brother had a Hunter GT and I often used to drive it (circa 1974 /
1975). I don't remember the brake lever being between the driver's
seat and door.

my father had a Rootes car (Sceptre?). It had a bench front seat, so
the handbrake had to fit between the driver's seat and the door.


No ”had to• about it. You‘re forgetting under dash ”umbrella• style
handbrakes that you pulled (and foot operated parking brakes although I‘m
not sure these were ever popular in the UK).

I remember the 'umbrella' handbreke - can't remember whicj car it was in,

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 07/04/2021 14:09, JohnP wrote:
Similar annoyance is Mr Kind who stops to let cars out of every side road -
preferably before they have to stop. What about some consideration to those
behind?
Never mind that. People wanting to make a right turn in front of me are
so annoying.

I'm writing to Grant Shaps to suggest making the manoeuvre illegal.

On 11/04/2021 06:05 pm, charles wrote:
In article ,
JNugent wrote:
On 11/04/2021 12:17 pm, NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road
and notice how small it is in comparision to todays
'small' cars. Ditto 1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends
father was a bank manager and in the 1960's they drove to
the South of France towing a caravan behind their Hillman minx
and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

I'm amazed at how *narrow* old cars were, and yet I wasn't aware of
constantly rubbing shoulders with the person next to me, or my shoulder
forever hitting the door pillars.

Probably due to less side-impact protection in the doors.

I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the driver's
right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the Hillman
Hunter. In a modern car the seat edge almost touches the inside of the
door (including door pockets etc).

My brother had a Hunter GT and I often used to drive it (circa 1974 /
1975). I don't remember the brake lever being between the driver's seat
and door.

my father had a Rootes car (Sceptre?). It had a bench front seat, so the
handbrake had to fit between the driver's seat and the door.

I have had only one bench-seat car (a Ford Zephyr 4, Mk III) and the
handbrake was one of those Walking-stick type handled things that
emerged from under the dash.

On 11/04/2021 06:30 pm, Tim+ wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
JNugent wrote:
On 11/04/2021 12:17 pm, NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road
and notice how small it is in comparision to todays
'small' cars. Ditto 1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends
father was a bank manager and in the 1960's they drove to
the South of France towing a caravan behind their Hillman minx
and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

I'm amazed at how *narrow* old cars were, and yet I wasn't aware of
constantly rubbing shoulders with the person next to me, or my shoulder
forever hitting the door pillars.

Probably due to less side-impact protection in the doors.

I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the driver's
right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the Hillman
Hunter. In a modern car the seat edge almost touches the inside of the
door (including door pockets etc).

My brother had a Hunter GT and I often used to drive it (circa 1974 /
1975). I don't remember the brake lever being between the driver's seat
and door.

my father had a Rootes car (Sceptre?). It had a bench front seat, so the
handbrake had to fit between the driver's seat and the door.


No €œhad to€� about it. Youre forgetting under dash €œumbrella€� style
handbrakes that you pulled (and foot operated parking brakes although Im
not sure these were ever popular in the UK).

The foot--operated ones are big in the USA.

On 11/04/2021 07:29 pm, Mark Carver wrote:
On 07/04/2021 14:09, JohnP wrote:
Similar annoyance is Mr Kind who stops to let cars out of every side
road -
preferably before they have to stop. What about some consideration to
those
behind?
Never mind that. People wanting to make a right turn in front of me are
so annoying.

I'm writing to Grant Shaps to suggest making the manoeuvre illegal.

But even if it's made illegal, how will they know that you're the one
behind?

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
On 11/04/2021 05:27 pm, JNugent wrote:
On 11/04/2021 12:17 pm, NY wrote:
I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the driver's
right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the Hillman
Hunter. In a modern car the seat edge almost touches the inside of the
door (including door pockets etc).

My brother had a Hunter GT and I often used to drive it (circa 1974 /
1975). I don't remember the brake lever being between the driver's seat
and door.

UPDATE: I rang him and he clearly remembered the brake lever being down on
the RHS of the driving seat. That had definitely not stayed in my memory.

LOL. I remember it well because when he let me drive it (I was about 10) on
a deserted road, I bashed my calf on the end of the handbrake as I was
getting into the driver's seat. Bloody stupid place to put the handbrake -
on a car that has two separate seats rather than a bench seat, and so has
space between the seats for the handbrake. For a bench seat (*) under the
dashboard, as an umbrella handle, is better than on the driver's side where
there is only a narrow gap between seat and door and where it is a hazard to
young boys' legs ;-)


(*) Or a car with two seats which touch, with no space between them, like on
my mum's old Renault 6.

On 11/04/2021 18:05, charles wrote:
In article ,
JNugent wrote:
On 11/04/2021 12:17 pm, NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
It's quite a surprise to see a Mk1 Ford Cortina on the road
and notice how small it is in comparision to todays
'small' cars. Ditto 1968 Mk1 Ford Escort. School friends
father was a bank manager and in the 1960's they drove to
the South of France towing a caravan behind their Hillman minx
and with a dinghy on the roof rack too.

I'm amazed at how *narrow* old cars were, and yet I wasn't aware of
constantly rubbing shoulders with the person next to me, or my shoulder
forever hitting the door pillars.

Probably due to less side-impact protection in the doors.

I can't work out how they managed to fit the handbrake on the driver's
right, between the seat and the door, in cars such as the Hillman
Hunter. In a modern car the seat edge almost touches the inside of the
door (including door pockets etc).

My brother had a Hunter GT and I often used to drive it (circa 1974 /
1975). I don't remember the brake lever being between the driver's seat
and door.

my father had a Rootes car (Sceptre?). It had a bench front seat, so the
handbrake had to fit between the driver's seat and the door.

My father had a Vauxhall (a Victor 101 Super). That had a bench seat
too. It originally had a 3-speed column shift gearbox and the handbrake
was a pull out, twist to release, handle - just below the dash.

He later cut a hole in the floor and fitted a 4-speed box, with a floor
mounted gear-lever, to improve towing ability.

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
my father had a Rootes car (Sceptre?). It had a bench front seat, so the
handbrake had to fit between the driver's seat and the door.


No €œhad to€� about it. Youre forgetting under dash €œumbrella€� style
handbrakes that you pulled (and foot operated parking brakes although Im
not sure these were ever popular in the UK).

Foot operated parking brakes are a pain because you need an extra leg to
release the brake at a time which is precisely coordinated with the clutch
and accelerator when doing a hill start. They also latch on and have to be
pressed down to release them. So you can't release them or apply them as
quickly or with as much control. The same is true of electric handbrakes,
controlled by a switch which uses an electric motor to apply/release. A good
hill start is one where at the moment of setting off the handbrake bites
only just enough to hold the car back, and not so much that it prevents the
car going forwards - that needs a non-binary control of the brake.

OK, so automatic cars don't strictly speaking need a handbrake to be
coordinated during a hill start, because the transmission with idling engine
will (hopefully) hold the car from rolling back unless the hill is very
steep - but as with handbrake assist on a manual car, I haven't the guts to
rely on it. I'll have to try it on a hill when there's nothing behind me and
see if our car's handbrake assist actually *does* hold the car if it is
released *before* the clutch is engaged and the power is applied. With my
hand on the handbrake lever , just in case ;-)

Anyway, I will not, as a service to the car behind me, use my footbrake to
stay stopped at a junction etc. That would dazzle him with my brake lights.
I want to shoot other drivers who do it to me, so I won't do it to them.
"Footbrake to stop the car. Handbrake to *stay* stopped." Wise Saw number
387 from my driving instructor all those years ago.

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
my father had a Rootes car (Sceptre?). It had a bench front seat, so
the
handbrake had to fit between the driver's seat and the door.


No €œhad to€� about it. Youre forgetting under dash €œumbrella€� style
handbrakes that you pulled (and foot operated parking brakes although Im
not sure these were ever popular in the UK).

Foot operated parking brakes are a pain because you need an extra leg to
release the brake at a time which is precisely coordinated with the clutch
and accelerator when doing a hill start. They also latch on and have to be
pressed down to release them. So you can't release them or apply them as
quickly or with as much control. The same is true of electric handbrakes,
controlled by a switch which uses an electric motor to apply/release. A
good hill start is one where at the moment of setting off the handbrake
bites only just enough to hold the car back, and not so much that it
prevents the car going forwards - that needs a non-binary control of the
brake.

OK, so automatic cars don't strictly speaking need a handbrake to be
coordinated during a hill start, because the transmission with idling
engine will (hopefully) hold the car from rolling back unless the hill is
very steep - but as with handbrake assist on a manual car, I haven't the
guts to rely on it. I'll have to try it on a hill when there's nothing
behind me and see if our car's handbrake assist actually *does* hold the
car if it is released *before* the clutch is engaged and the power is
applied. With my hand on the handbrake lever , just in case ;-)

Anyway, I will not, as a service to the car behind me, use my footbrake to
stay stopped at a junction etc. That would dazzle him with my brake
lights.

I have never been dazzled by any brake lights. There is some problem with
your eyes.

I want to shoot other drivers who do it to me, so I won't do it to them.
"Footbrake to stop the car. Handbrake to *stay* stopped." Wise Saw number
387 from my driving instructor all those years ago.

Just because someone got that wrong doesnt mean you have to keep doing it
wrong.

On 11/04/2021 15:59, williamwright wrote:
On 09/04/2021 14:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Amazing how many people like driving something the size of a van.


Order of preference for driving my vehicles (not including tractor)

1. Transit LWB high top 3.5

When I had one it was lovely and stable on a long journey, I guess its
length had something to do with it!

Being white I found I was given a little respect too!

2. Merc 709D
3. Volvo car

Bill

"charles" wrote in message
...
my father had a Rootes car (Sceptre?). It had a bench front seat, so
the handbrake had to fit between the driver's seat and the door.


No "had to. about it. You're forgetting under dash "umbrella. style
handbrakes that you pulled (and foot operated parking brakes although I'm
not sure these were ever popular in the UK).

I remember the 'umbrella' handbrake - can't remember which car it was in,

Most 1950s/1960s cars with bench seats, and those which had two seats but
where a bench was an option. My dad's Ford Corsair (two seats but bench was
an option on some models). My mum's two Renault 6s (two seats but they had
no space between them). My dad's Citroen GS (space was occupied by
radio/cassette - a vertical cassette slot gets a lot of day-to-day crap in
it!).

The Citroen was a spade handle with a release button inside - and it was
designed for the LHD market where it would be operated by the index finger,
so on a RHD car (which did not have the control on the other side) you had
to use your little finger or else turn our hand over so it was palm upwards.
It was unusual in that it acted on the front rather than rear brakes - and
those brakes were close to the gearbox, a lot further "inboard" than disc
brakes are usually, just behind the wheels. All extra labour time when a
brake disc needs changing - I *think* they had to remove the drive shaft to
remove/replace it...

Usually the umbrella handle was rotated 90 degrees to release the ratchet,
and then pulled up like that and rotated back to its rest position to lock
onto the ratchet. Some may instead have had a ratchet release button. I
liked the under-the-dashboard on mum's R6. And the hockey-stick gear lever
was lovely and smooth (not notchy) and had a very big "throw" between the
1st/2nd, 3rd/4th and R planes of the gear positions - about +/- 45 degrees
wrt to the 3/4 plane, so no danger of hitting first instead of third etc. It
was the first car I drove that actually had lateral springs to bias the gear
lever into the 3/4 plane, rather than being equally at home in 1/2 or 3/4 -
that also helped in not confusing the gears. I got very used to a 4th to 2nd
change when accelerating out of corners: apply a bit of anti-clockwise
pressure, push the lever half way in (into neutral) and pull it straight
back out again.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 05:43:04 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

I have never been dazzled by any brake lights.

Of COURSE not, auto-contradicting senile pest! LOL

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On 11/04/2021 18:48, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 16:24:03 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

snip

When you were a prefect at school did you enjoy it? Did you ever
consider a job as a traffic warden or policeman? Do you volunteer to
direct the traffic at local festivals? Are you the admin of a Facebook
group? Do your children keep secrets from you? Would you vote for a
political party that would force people to eat less meat? Do you
sometimes wonder why almost no-one except you obeys the rules?


Bit early to be drinking Bill?

Cheers, T i m

I didn't think it was Bill doing the drinking. I suspect he was trying
to understand the basis of your post. Your posts do seem a bit
"unhinged" recently.

On 11/04/2021 20:50, Fredxx wrote:

1. Transit LWB high top 3.5

When I had one it was lovely and stable on a long journey, I guess its
length had something to do with it!

Being white I found I was given a little respect too!

2. Merc 709D

Yes, in big vans you really feel you're moving along very smoothly. It's
far nicer than being in a car.

Bill

On Sunday, 11 April 2021 at 19:29:58 UTC+1, Mark Carver wrote:
On 07/04/2021 14:09, JohnP wrote:
Similar annoyance is Mr Kind who stops to let cars out of every side road -
preferably before they have to stop. What about some consideration to those
behind?
Never mind that. People wanting to make a right turn in front of me are
so annoying.

I'm writing to Grant Shaps to suggest making the manoeuvre illegal.
I once read an account about a woman who only made left turns going miles out of her way to get to destinations without doing a right turn.

Richard

On 12/04/2021 00:02, williamwright wrote:
On 11/04/2021 20:50, Fredxx wrote:

1. Transit LWB high top 3.5

When I had one it was lovely and stable on a long journey, I guess its
length had something to do with it!

Being white I found I was given a little respect too!

2. Merc 709D

Yes, in big vans you really feel you're moving along very smoothly. It's
far nicer than being in a car.

When we moved house we hired a Mercedes LWB van and spent a week driving
from our new house to our old one, loading up, returning, unloading -
rinse and repeat every day for a week. The "old house" was my parents
holiday cottage so we had access to it - we didn't have to be out on a
set day. We just got a small removal van to bring the really big things
like fridge, freezer and washing machine right at the end.

It was a bit unnerving to drive to begin with, especially as the first
journey from the hire place to our new house was on my own (no wife to
look the opposite way at junctions etc because she had to drive home in
her own car), and it was a bit tight reversing into our drive with only
a reversing camera and door mirrors, but no view through the central
rear-view mirror. As with all things, what is scary the first time
becomes easier and piece-of-**** by the end. Without a reversing camera,
and only views down the *side* of the van, reversing would have been
very scary.

We both found it a nice van to drive, and not too bad on acceleration.
Best not to dwell on the diesel consumption. Keeping down to 50 on
single carriageway and 60 on dual took a bit of remembering - especially
coming off the A1M (motorway) onto the A64 (dual, not motorway). The
full van handled very differently to when it was empty, but it still
made it up Garrowby Hill on the A166 between York and Bridlington and
even managed to overtake a slow vehicle on the hill. We decided that
Sutton Bank was too steep to manage when loaded, hence the longer
Garrowby Hill route coming home. Sutton Bank would probably have been
fine, but I didn't want to risk the embarrassment of not being able to
set off from rest on the hill if some pillock in front ground to a halt
- I've witnessed too many HGVs, especially triple-decker waggons of
sheep, gradually grind to a halt on Sutton Bank and then be unable to
set off again. *Those* are the people who should be banned from Sutton
Bank, not drivers of car+caravan who probably have better power:weight.
Ideally they should be banned from driving altogether for even
attempting it in a vehicle that is underpowered enough not to be able to
set off on the hill.

The one thing we both fell foul of occasionally was the dreaded clipping
a kerb with the back wheels. Even when I allowed extra distance, going
wide at the front end, I still once or twice mounted the kerb.

Maybe because the van had hire-company markings so other drivers knew we
weren't as used to driving a longer vehicle, I noticed that cars and
other van drivers were inclined to give us a quick flash when we were
overtaking them and the back end was safely clear of their front end, to
say "OK to pull in now".

Given the lack of central rear-view mirror and the poorer side
visibility (no side windows behind the driver/passenger), the door
mirrors had to be good to compensate - and the Merc's were excellent:
plane glass, convex blind spot, and convex angled down to show back
wheels and a feet feet forwards of that. Much better than the ones in
either of our cars. Parallel parking was not much harder than a car -
use the angled-down mirror to show when the rear wheel was about to
touch the kerb, full lock to straighten up, reversing camera to check
that I didn't get too close to the vehicle behind, wife to keep an eye
on the front wing against the car in front.

On Monday, 12 April 2021 at 00:52:57 UTC+1, NY wrote:
On 12/04/2021 00:02, williamwright wrote:
On 11/04/2021 20:50, Fredxx wrote:

1. Transit LWB high top 3.5

When I had one it was lovely and stable on a long journey, I guess its
length had something to do with it!

Being white I found I was given a little respect too!

2. Merc 709D

Yes, in big vans you really feel you're moving along very smoothly. It's
far nicer than being in a car.
When we moved house we hired a Mercedes LWB van and spent a week driving
from our new house to our old one, loading up, returning, unloading -
rinse and repeat every day for a week. The "old house" was my parents
holiday cottage so we had access to it - we didn't have to be out on a
set day. We just got a small removal van to bring the really big things
like fridge, freezer and washing machine right at the end.

It was a bit unnerving to drive to begin with, especially as the first
journey from the hire place to our new house was on my own (no wife to
look the opposite way at junctions etc because she had to drive home in
her own car), and it was a bit tight reversing into our drive with only
a reversing camera and door mirrors, but no view through the central
rear-view mirror. As with all things, what is scary the first time
becomes easier and piece-of-**** by the end. Without a reversing camera,
and only views down the *side* of the van, reversing would have been
very scary.

We both found it a nice van to drive, and not too bad on acceleration.
Best not to dwell on the diesel consumption. Keeping down to 50 on
single carriageway and 60 on dual took a bit of remembering - especially
coming off the A1M (motorway) onto the A64 (dual, not motorway). The
full van handled very differently to when it was empty, but it still
made it up Garrowby Hill on the A166 between York and Bridlington and
even managed to overtake a slow vehicle on the hill. We decided that
Sutton Bank was too steep to manage when loaded, hence the longer
Garrowby Hill route coming home. Sutton Bank would probably have been
fine, but I didn't want to risk the embarrassment of not being able to
set off from rest on the hill if some pillock in front ground to a halt
- I've witnessed too many HGVs, especially triple-decker waggons of
sheep, gradually grind to a halt on Sutton Bank and then be unable to
set off again. *Those* are the people who should be banned from Sutton
Bank, not drivers of car+caravan who probably have better power:weight.
Ideally they should be banned from driving altogether for even
attempting it in a vehicle that is underpowered enough not to be able to
set off on the hill.

The one thing we both fell foul of occasionally was the dreaded clipping
a kerb with the back wheels. Even when I allowed extra distance, going
wide at the front end, I still once or twice mounted the kerb.

Maybe because the van had hire-company markings so other drivers knew we
weren't as used to driving a longer vehicle, I noticed that cars and
other van drivers were inclined to give us a quick flash when we were
overtaking them and the back end was safely clear of their front end, to
say "OK to pull in now".

Given the lack of central rear-view mirror and the poorer side
visibility (no side windows behind the driver/passenger), the door
mirrors had to be good to compensate - and the Merc's were excellent:
plane glass, convex blind spot, and convex angled down to show back
wheels and a feet feet forwards of that. Much better than the ones in
either of our cars. Parallel parking was not much harder than a car -
use the angled-down mirror to show when the rear wheel was about to
touch the kerb, full lock to straighten up, reversing camera to check
that I didn't get too close to the vehicle behind, wife to keep an eye
on the front wing against the car in front.

Just as an aside, when learning to drive I was always taught when reversing to twist round in the drivers seat and look where I am going through the rear window. All my most recent cars have had a fairly small rear window high up with a view from the drivers seat several metres away. Added to that headrests getting in the way and age taking a toll on flexibility I find I can see more using my door mirrors and relying on the visual display from the reversing radar to see kerbs and distances from other vehicles. Would that be a fail in a driving test?

Richard