On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:38:50 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

Are you referring there to vegetables. The sort of thing that's good for
you?

snip

And that's the thing, if you even followed the old adage that has
allowed a generation to live longer than many before them is a diet of
'meat' and *two* veg ... and the meat was only offered because they
weren't aware of all the alternative protein sources that were
available and it was what they had 'always' done.

But the likes of Turnip would be one of the last of those (like the
other trolls / goblins here) to have given up their slaves and has no
issue what-so-ever with the idea of causing pain, suffering and death
to an animal because 1) that's what he believes to be 'normal', 2) has
been brought up to consider such as 'acceptable' and 3) (therefore)
knows no other way. ;-(

Plus, like a spoilt child, simply won't eat his greens.

Cheers, T i m

On 02/02/2021 17:23, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2021-02-02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/2021 12:36, Spike wrote:
On 01/02/2021 16:10, T i m wrote:

OK, well that's half the battle (towards less animal suffering,
cruelty and death), getting people to at least consider the
consequences of their actions.

Like destroying rain forests to provide you with soy protein, you mean?

+1


Myth.

Vast majority of that soya is used as cheap cattle feed.

Jim
(not a vegan)

Are you sure?

UK Government statistics show that in 2015/16 total imports of soy
beans, soy meal and soy oil totalled 3.1 million tonnes. Of this
approximately:

1.1 million tonnes (35%) was fed to livestock,
1.42 million tonnes (45%) was used in food products for humans,
0.58 million tonnes (18%) was used in non-food products.

I would say a minority of soy imports go to feed cattle and wondering
why you think differently?

On 02/02/2021 17:27, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 13:35:26 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip


Like destroying rain forests to provide you with soy protein, you mean?

+1

Aww bless, the soppy old Turnip following a stupid troll psychopath.

'My' soy protein is most likely to come from Europe, the protein the
meat you eat was more likely fed on soy from the Amazon and the likes.

So if you stopped eating soy, we wouldn't need to import any from Amazon
and the likes.

On 02/02/2021 17:34, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 13:35:52 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 02/02/2021 12:38, GB wrote:
On 02/02/2021 11:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Â*revolting green****

Are you referring there to vegetables. The sort of thing that's good for
you?Â* You do eat vegetables, don't you?


some

Aww, the stupid old Turnip *is* a cannibal!

Do you have trouble in distinguishing between a cannibal and an omnivore?

This seems a common trait amongst fanatical vegans.

On 02/02/2021 17:42, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:38:50 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

Are you referring there to vegetables. The sort of thing that's good for
you?

snip

And that's the thing, if you even followed the old adage that has
allowed a generation to live longer than many before them is a diet of
'meat' and *two* veg ... and the meat was only offered because they
weren't aware of all the alternative protein sources that were
available and it was what they had 'always' done.

But the likes of Turnip would be one of the last of those (like the
other trolls / goblins here) to have given up their slaves and has no
issue what-so-ever with the idea of causing pain, suffering and death
to an animal because 1) that's what he believes to be 'normal', 2) has
been brought up to consider such as 'acceptable' and 3) (therefore)
knows no other way. ;-(

I don't have any slave pets that are expected to respond to command,
keep their bowls and bladders to bursting point and then say they are
being kind to allow the dog to live whilst the poor thing is being tortured.


Plus, like a spoilt child, simply won't eat his greens.

Nothing wrong with greens accompanying a natural source of B12.

In message , Jim Jackson
writes
On 2021-02-02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/2021 12:36, Spike wrote:
On 01/02/2021 16:10, T i m wrote:

OK, well that's half the battle (towards less animal suffering,
cruelty and death), getting people to at least consider the
consequences of their actions.

Like destroying rain forests to provide you with soy protein, you mean?

+1


Myth.

Vast majority of that soya is used as cheap cattle feed.

Actually used to boost the protein levels of other hard feeds: generally
cereals blended with by-products such as sugar beet shreds.

--
Tim Lamb

On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 17:46:11 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 02/02/2021 17:34, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 13:35:52 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 02/02/2021 12:38, GB wrote:
On 02/02/2021 11:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

*revolting green****

Are you referring there to vegetables. The sort of thing that's good for
you?* You do eat vegetables, don't you?


some

Aww, the stupid old Turnip *is* a cannibal!

Do you have trouble in distinguishing between a cannibal and an omnivore?

Oh ****headXX, the levels you will go to to try to provoke me to reply
to your BS, even purposefully / publicly faceplanting it seems!!!

Please don't tell me your literal left brainer fanatical troll view
missed the whole eating veg and the '*Turnip* / cannibal' thing (that
I couldn't have signposted much clearer ... )?

No, you really couldn't be that slow ... or is it your fanatical
insistence that everyone should eat meat (when it's patently obvious
that many don't think they are gods, to lord over all animals as you
do), just to get stuff they can get without causing suffering and
death to animals?

See, the solution to the reduction to the pain, suffering and death we
cause to trillions of animals a years doesn't start with pets or
assuming that meat is some sort of irreplaceable elixir to life (when
it's actually often the opposite and why we are told to eat less meat
and more fruit and veg), it starts by people cutting out meat (eggs /
dairy) and going towards more plant based foods, just like *ALL* the
expert advice from all segments are telling us (other than the meat,
egg and dairy industries of course).


Cheers, T i m

p.s. Do you realise that very few people ever respond to your
craziness? Does nurse know you are on the day room computer again? ;-(

I bet if the Covid19 pandemic turns out to be yet another zoonotic one
it wouldn't impact your level of support for continuing the
unnecessary exploitation and death of animals will it?

On 2021-02-02, Fredxx wrote:
On 02/02/2021 17:23, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2021-02-02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/2021 12:36, Spike wrote:
On 01/02/2021 16:10, T i m wrote:

OK, well that's half the battle (towards less animal suffering,
cruelty and death), getting people to at least consider the
consequences of their actions.

Like destroying rain forests to provide you with soy protein, you mean?

+1


Myth.

Vast majority of that soya is used as cheap cattle feed.

Jim
(not a vegan)

Are you sure?

UK Government statistics show that in 2015/16 total imports of soy
beans, soy meal and soy oil totalled 3.1 million tonnes. Of this
approximately:

1.1 million tonnes (35%) was fed to livestock,
1.42 million tonnes (45%) was used in food products for humans,
0.58 million tonnes (18%) was used in non-food products.

I would say a minority of soy imports go to feed cattle and wondering
why you think differently?

I was responding to the claim that soya grown on land from destroyed
rain forest was used to feed vegans.

So does the stats say where the soya came from. Most S.American Soya is GM.

see https://royalsociety.org/topics-poli...s-being-eaten/

Most Soya in the human food chain is not GM and a lot os grown in the EU.

On 02/02/2021 18:21, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2021-02-02, Fredxx wrote:
On 02/02/2021 17:23, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2021-02-02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/2021 12:36, Spike wrote:
On 01/02/2021 16:10, T i m wrote:

OK, well that's half the battle (towards less animal suffering,
cruelty and death), getting people to at least consider the
consequences of their actions.

Like destroying rain forests to provide you with soy protein, you mean?

+1


Myth.

Vast majority of that soya is used as cheap cattle feed.

Jim
(not a vegan)

Are you sure?

UK Government statistics show that in 2015/16 total imports of soy
beans, soy meal and soy oil totalled 3.1 million tonnes. Of this
approximately:

1.1 million tonnes (35%) was fed to livestock,
1.42 million tonnes (45%) was used in food products for humans,
0.58 million tonnes (18%) was used in non-food products.

I would say a minority of soy imports go to feed cattle and wondering
why you think differently?

I was responding to the claim that soya grown on land from destroyed
rain forest was used to feed vegans.

So does the stats say where the soya came from. Most S.American Soya is GM.

see https://royalsociety.org/topics-poli...s-being-eaten/

Most Soya in the human food chain is not GM and a lot os grown in the EU.

Given the amount used for human consumption, a reduction would mean that
there might be insufficient demand to chop down any more rain forest.
I'm sure if the source really matters for what is a worldwide resourced
crop.

On 02/02/2021 18:16, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 17:46:11 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 02/02/2021 17:34, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 13:35:52 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 02/02/2021 12:38, GB wrote:
On 02/02/2021 11:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Â*revolting green****

Are you referring there to vegetables. The sort of thing that's good for
you?Â* You do eat vegetables, don't you?


some

Aww, the stupid old Turnip *is* a cannibal!

Do you have trouble in distinguishing between a cannibal and an omnivore?

Oh ****headXX, the levels you will go to to try to provoke me to reply
to your BS, even purposefully / publicly faceplanting it seems!!!

Resulting to abuse oncer again demonstrates the futility of your argument.

Please don't tell me your literal left brainer fanatical troll view
missed the whole eating veg and the '*Turnip* / cannibal' thing (that
I couldn't have signposted much clearer ... )?

Only a fanatic would call even Turnip a cannibal. I'm sure if he was
he'd had left a series of skeletons leading to his arrest.


No, you really couldn't be that slow ... or is it your fanatical
insistence that everyone should eat meat (when it's patently obvious
that many don't think they are gods, to lord over all animals as you
do), just to get stuff they can get without causing suffering and
death to animals?

I respect those who avoid meat and meat products through choice, but
respect counts for nothing with fanatical people who thrust their
unbalanced and unnatural diet onto those around them.

See, the solution to the reduction to the pain, suffering and death we
cause to trillions of animals a years

A lack of B12 can result of analytical thought.

doesn't start with pets

They do say charity should start at home. If you stopped torturing your
pets with unnatural diets, force them to keep their bowels and bladders
full and endorse the mutilation of their genitalia you might gain more
respect.

or
assuming that meat is some sort of irreplaceable elixir to life (when
it's actually often the opposite and why we are told to eat less meat
and more fruit and veg), it starts by people cutting out meat (eggs /
dairy) and going towards more plant based foods, just like *ALL* the
expert advice from all segments are telling us (other than the meat,
egg and dairy industries of course).

Agreed, we should move to more of a plant based diet, but if we want to
keep healthy naturally then we ought to consider consuming a wide
ranging balanced natural diet than includes meat and meat products.


Cheers, T i m

p.s. Do you realise that very few people ever respond to your
craziness? Does nurse know you are on the day room computer again? ;-(

That's because few feel the need to correct me, and my facts are well
researched.

On the other hand your posts regularly gain an adverse reaction. You
make Rod look tame. He makes the remark about bull**** and paper bags,
you do your best to abuse through claiming some handedness of the brain
opposite to yours. I would hate to be a right brainer if it meant I was
anything like you and displayed your fanaticism..

I bet if the Covid19 pandemic turns out to be yet another zoonotic one
it wouldn't impact your level of support for continuing the
unnecessary exploitation and death of animals will it?

Interesting, it is a concern that viruses can also cross from plants to
humans. There is some evidence this has happened where subjects have
developed an antibodies to plant based viruses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4411691/

While we restrict movements of animals perhaps we should consider the
same with plants?

On 02/02/2021 17:27, T i m wrote:

'My' soy protein is most likely to come from Europe, the protein the
meat you eat was more likely fed on soy from the Amazon and the likes.

Then give us the data, rather than prevaricate with 'most likely',
'more likely', and 'the likes' - which smacks of cognitive dissonance
rather than hard facts.

--
Spike

On 02/02/2021 18:16, T i m wrote:

Please don't tell me your literal left brainer fanatical troll view
missed the whole eating veg and the '*Turnip* / cannibal' thing (that
I couldn't have signposted much clearer ... )?

It whooshed right past me, too. :/

A lack of B12 can result of analytical thought.
^

I assume there is a "in lack" lacking there! Or something similar.

As a sufferer of Pernicious Anaemia, I know lack of B12 can affect nerve
function, hence I suppose brain function. But my (slight) nerve symptoms
were in my arms and legs. I'd always put down the slight depression
before disgnosis as related to exhaustion due to the anaemia.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 11:37:25 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson
wrote:


A lack of B12 can result of analytical thought.
^

I assume there is a "in lack" lacking there! Or something similar.

As a sufferer of Pernicious Anaemia, I know lack of B12 can affect nerve
function, hence I suppose brain function. But my (slight) nerve symptoms
were in my arms and legs.

In what form may I ask Jim?

I'd always put down the slight depression
before disgnosis as related to exhaustion due to the anaemia.

And what was that caused by? (The email works if you prefer).

I had 'a differentially high white blood count' (or somesuch) when in
my teens that appears as a lack of energy / strength (I thought the MM
van steering was seizing up!) and that turned out to be the after /
side affect of having glandular fever?

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 11:26:23 +0000, GB
wrote:

On 02/02/2021 18:16, T i m wrote:

Please don't tell me your literal left brainer fanatical troll view
missed the whole eating veg and the '*Turnip* / cannibal' thing (that
I couldn't have signposted much clearer ... )?

It whooshed right past me, too. :/

Ah, but you don't claim to be always right, like the trolls do. ;-(

I really don't know what's wrong with them (well, other than them
being trolls etc).

It's like they think arguing black is white with me is going to change
anything for anyone?

The warm and fuzzies, when reminded that some of their lifestyle
choices are having an avoidable negative impact on someone/thing will
generally change their ways to avoid such (as is the case with the
ever growing number of vegans worldwide etc).

The cold and prickles won't be pressed into considering anything about
anyone else, unless it is better for them, even if it makes things
worse for others (like Brexit).

So the carnist, right wing, Brexit voting people are (statistically)
less likely to become vegan because they don't have the empathy
required to make such choices or be / willing to consider the bigger
picture (pollution, resources), because it doesn't suit / do anything
for them. ;-(

I am not consuming the things I was pre going vegan and I'm not
missing them because I shouldn't (morally / ethically / resources /
pollution etc) have been consuming them in the first place. [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] I rang the Dr back yesterday re my Flu jab (I had a recorded
message last week re getting one) and they said they were no longer
offering them and to contact my local Pharmacy. I'm hoping that means
I can have the option of a vegan one?

On 03/02/2021 11:37, Jim Jackson wrote:

A lack of B12 can result of analytical thought.
^

I assume there is a "in lack" lacking there! Or something similar.

Apologies, yes you are correct.

As a sufferer of Pernicious Anaemia, I know lack of B12 can affect nerve
function, hence I suppose brain function. But my (slight) nerve symptoms
were in my arms and legs. I'd always put down the slight depression
before disgnosis as related to exhaustion due to the anaemia.

Was this down to a lack of one of the 3 enzymes required to absorb B12?
Normally what would be called Intrinsic Factor.

I hope you are now feeling a great deal better.

On 03/02/2021 13:46, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 11:26:23 +0000, GB
wrote:

On 02/02/2021 18:16, T i m wrote:

Please don't tell me your literal left brainer fanatical troll view
missed the whole eating veg and the '*Turnip* / cannibal' thing (that
I couldn't have signposted much clearer ... )?

It whooshed right past me, too. :/

Ah, but you don't claim to be always right, like the trolls do. ;-(

Is that an admission you don't understand the difference between a
cannibal and an omnivore?

I really don't know what's wrong with them (well, other than them
being trolls etc).

We get our hit of B12 and the only troll here is the one who abuses meat
eaters.

It's like they think arguing black is white with me is going to change
anything for anyone?

B12 deficiency is a black or white thing. You either have reserves in
your liver,or you don't.

The warm and fuzzies, when reminded that some of their lifestyle
choices are having an avoidable negative impact on someone/thing will
generally change their ways to avoid such (as is the case with the
ever growing number of vegans worldwide etc).

Is fuzzieness a mental condition or perhaps a thought process caused by
a lack of B12?

The cold and prickles won't be pressed into considering anything about
anyone else, unless it is better for them, even if it makes things
worse for others (like Brexit).

You have truly lost any semblance of coherent thought.

So the carnist, right wing, Brexit voting people are (statistically)
less likely to become vegan because they don't have the empathy
required to make such choices or be / willing to consider the bigger
picture (pollution, resources), because it doesn't suit / do anything
for them. ;-(

And in general right wing people live longer, possible from a naturally
balanced diet?

I am not consuming the things I was pre going vegan and I'm not
missing them because I shouldn't (morally / ethically / resources /
pollution etc) have been consuming them in the first place. [1]

Is that why you feel the need to have synthetic burgers and turkeys made
from ingredients and chemicals to make them look, taste, and feel the
same as the cooked native animal?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I rang the Dr back yesterday re my Flu jab (I had a recorded
message last week re getting one) and they said they were no longer
offering them and to contact my local Pharmacy. I'm hoping that means
I can have the option of a vegan one?

I thought you endorsed the manufacture of chicken eggs for vaccine
preparation?

On 02/02/2021 17:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 02/02/2021 17:42, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:38:50 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

Are you referring there to vegetables. The sort of thing that's good for
you?

snip

And that's the thing, if you even followed the old adage that has
allowed a generation to live longer than many before them is a diet of
'meat' and *two* veg ... and the meat was only offered because they
weren't aware of all the alternative protein sources that were
available and it was what they had 'always' done.

But the likes of Turnip would be one of the last of those (like the
other trolls / goblins here) to have given up their slaves and has no
issue what-so-ever with the idea of causing pain, suffering and death
to an animal because 1) that's what he believes to be 'normal', 2) has
been brought up to consider such as 'acceptable' and 3) (therefore)
knows no other way. ;-(

I don't have any slave pets that are expected to respond to command,
keep their bowls and bladders to bursting point and then say they are
being kind to allow the dog to live whilst the poor thing is being
tortured.

You're in denial of the fact.


Plus, like a spoilt child, simply won't eat his greens.

Nothing wrong with greens accompanying a natural source of B12.

On 03/02/2021 13:46, T i m wrote:

I rang the Dr back yesterday re my Flu jab (I had a recorded
message last week re getting one) and they said they were no longer
offering them and to contact my local Pharmacy. I'm hoping that means
I can have the option of a vegan one.

I fully realise that this might be a left-brainer thing, but why don't
you ring the pharmacy and ask?

--
Spike - always helping right-brainers

On 2021-02-03, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 11:37:25 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson
wrote:


A lack of B12 can result of analytical thought.
^

I assume there is a "in lack" lacking there! Or something similar.

As a sufferer of Pernicious Anaemia, I know lack of B12 can affect nerve
function, hence I suppose brain function. But my (slight) nerve symptoms
were in my arms and legs.

In what form may I ask Jim?

My leg cramps got worse, also got "twitchy legs". And my sense of position
where my hand was (with out looking) got worse. I got clumsy, putting
down mugs and misjudging so clashing the mug on the table of letting go
too soon. I learnt to watch doing things.

The hand clumsyness returns ocassionally before my B12 injection is due.

I'd always put down the slight depression
before disgnosis as related to exhaustion due to the anaemia.

And what was that caused by? (The email works if you prefer).

Without the ability to absorb B12 in the gut (Pernicious Anaemia) you
can't make efficient use of Iron (affecting oxygen transport in the blood)
- hence get very anaemic, and without B12 injections, die.

(sorry if over explaining)

I had 'a differentially high white blood count' (or somesuch) when in
my teens that appears as a lack of energy / strength (I thought the MM
van steering was seizing up!) and that turned out to be the after /
side affect of having glandular fever?

Cheers, T i m

On 2021-02-03, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/02/2021 11:37, Jim Jackson wrote:

A lack of B12 can result of analytical thought.
^

I assume there is a "in lack" lacking there! Or something similar.

Apologies, yes you are correct.

As a sufferer of Pernicious Anaemia, I know lack of B12 can affect nerve
function, hence I suppose brain function. But my (slight) nerve symptoms
were in my arms and legs. I'd always put down the slight depression
before disgnosis as related to exhaustion due to the anaemia.

Was this down to a lack of one of the 3 enzymes required to absorb B12?
Normally what would be called Intrinsic Factor.

Yes. I appears I cannot absorb B12 in the gut. I get B12 injections
regularly. This appeared fairly quickly in my middle 50's. I had been
very healthy upto that point. Within 18 months I got old(!!) and once I
got a diagnosis, and got the B12 booster and regular 3 month injections,
bounced back to health. A couple of years later some symptoms tended to
re-appear a few weeks before injections - the doctor reduced the time
between jabs to 2 months. Been fine since then.

On 04/02/2021 14:23, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2021-02-03, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/02/2021 11:37, Jim Jackson wrote:

A lack of B12 can result of analytical thought.
^

I assume there is a "in lack" lacking there! Or something similar.

Apologies, yes you are correct.

As a sufferer of Pernicious Anaemia, I know lack of B12 can affect nerve
function, hence I suppose brain function. But my (slight) nerve symptoms
were in my arms and legs. I'd always put down the slight depression
before disgnosis as related to exhaustion due to the anaemia.

Was this down to a lack of one of the 3 enzymes required to absorb B12?
Normally what would be called Intrinsic Factor.

Yes. I appears I cannot absorb B12 in the gut. I get B12 injections
regularly. This appeared fairly quickly in my middle 50's. I had been
very healthy upto that point. Within 18 months I got old(!!) and once I
got a diagnosis, and got the B12 booster and regular 3 month injections,
bounced back to health. A couple of years later some symptoms tended to
re-appear a few weeks before injections - the doctor reduced the time
between jabs to 2 months. Been fine since then.

Many years ago a member of the family had pernicious anaemia but apart
from grumpiness I wasn't aware of what ailments she had. She also have
diverticulitis for which there does seem some association with B12
absorption. A combinations from her age, most she knew had already died,
and her grumpiness, I recall, sadly there were few attending her funeral.

I believe things have changed dramatically since and I find medicine is
awesome how it can keep us in fine fettle.

Its good how you could tell the difference before and after an
injection. I thought the symptoms generally grew on you without you
noticing.