On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 2:02:42 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Exactly. And you don't get the motivation to do more than the bare
minimum by only needing to earn beer money. Speak to any really decent
tradesman, in any trade, and they'll have a real interest and passion in
doing a damn good job, above and beyond pure economic interest.

but it begins with 'needing' beer money.

Then stack shelves or whatever.

An apprenticeship is quite a long period of time at low money relative to
the work involved. The carrot on the stick being a decent living and
employment prospects if you complete it. And hopefully an interesting and
enjoyable career.

If you have no interest in the trade, find one you are keen on.

We all have to work to live - but it makes sense to choose something you
might actually enjoy. Or leave that chance to others who may benefit from
it.

I think its unrealistic to expect all competent tradespeople/diyers to be enthusiastic about a trade/diy when they start, and unrealistic to say you can pick out the future good ones with an interview. It certainly doesnt match my experience anyway. Wanting beer money works as good as anything else to get them going, and success with skills & projects inspires getting more into it, from what I've observed. Of course those folk might have been an unrepresentative sample, but I expect not.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 2:02:42 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Exactly. And you don't get the motivation to do more than the bare
minimum by only needing to earn beer money. Speak to any really
decent
tradesman, in any trade, and they'll have a real interest and passion
in
doing a damn good job, above and beyond pure economic interest.

but it begins with 'needing' beer money.

Then stack shelves or whatever.

An apprenticeship is quite a long period of time at low money relative to
the work involved. The carrot on the stick being a decent living and
employment prospects if you complete it. And hopefully an interesting and
enjoyable career.

If you have no interest in the trade, find one you are keen on.

We all have to work to live - but it makes sense to choose something you
might actually enjoy. Or leave that chance to others who may benefit from
it.

I think its unrealistic to expect all competent tradespeople/diyers
to be enthusiastic about a trade/diy when they start,

True, but you're more likely to get a useful one if you choose one
who is and who also is prepared to learn and do what he is told.

and unrealistic to say you can pick out
the future good ones with an interview.

Yep, that's why it's a lot easier to get rid of
the duds after you have tried them for a while
and get to see how they actually operate.

It certainly doesnt match my experience anyway. Wanting
beer money works as good as anything else to get them
going, and success with skills & projects inspires getting
more into it, from what I've observed. Of course those folk
might have been an unrepresentative sample, but I expect not.

I think its more that some who don't have much of a
clue about what they want to do straight out of school
may end up being very useful tradesmen anyway.

It isn't always clear what the downsides in a particular
trade are until you have tried doing it for a while.

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 2:02:42 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Exactly. And you don't get the motivation to do more than the bare
minimum by only needing to earn beer money. Speak to any really
decent
tradesman, in any trade, and they'll have a real interest and passion
in
doing a damn good job, above and beyond pure economic interest.

but it begins with 'needing' beer money.

Then stack shelves or whatever.

An apprenticeship is quite a long period of time at low money relative to
the work involved. The carrot on the stick being a decent living and
employment prospects if you complete it. And hopefully an interesting and
enjoyable career.

If you have no interest in the trade, find one you are keen on.

We all have to work to live - but it makes sense to choose something you
might actually enjoy. Or leave that chance to others who may benefit from
it.

I think its unrealistic to expect all competent tradespeople/diyers to be
enthusiastic about a trade/diy when they start,

but it does seem a sensible way of filtering candidates when supply exceeds
demand, (presumably by some wide margin)

tim

On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 10:22:48 +0000, tim..... wrote:

We all have to work to live - but it makes sense to choose something
you might actually enjoy. Or leave that chance to others who may
benefit from it.

I think its unrealistic to expect all competent tradespeople/diyers to
be enthusiastic about a trade/diy when they start,

but it does seem a sensible way of filtering candidates when supply
exceeds demand, (presumably by some wide margin)

I do know of one university department (not mine, or my university) that
automatically rejects CS applicants that start thir personal statement
with "from a very early age". Which knocks out about 40% of them.

I reject them if they can't be arsed to come to an interview. One of them
recently cried off because it was "too far". He lives about 40 miles away.



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"tim....." wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 2:02:42 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Exactly. And you don't get the motivation to do more than the bare
minimum by only needing to earn beer money. Speak to any really
decent
tradesman, in any trade, and they'll have a real interest and
passion in
doing a damn good job, above and beyond pure economic interest.

but it begins with 'needing' beer money.

Then stack shelves or whatever.

An apprenticeship is quite a long period of time at low money relative
to
the work involved. The carrot on the stick being a decent living and
employment prospects if you complete it. And hopefully an interesting
and
enjoyable career.

If you have no interest in the trade, find one you are keen on.

We all have to work to live - but it makes sense to choose something you
might actually enjoy. Or leave that chance to others who may benefit
from
it.

I think its unrealistic to expect all competent tradespeople/diyers to be
enthusiastic about a trade/diy when they start,

but it does seem a sensible way of filtering candidates when supply
exceeds demand, (presumably by some wide margin)

It doesn't with the ones will be useful and isn't necessarily
a good way of working out who will be useful either.