I'm planning to get a Byron plug-in wireless kinetic door bell to
replace the battery powered bellpush wireless set that we've had for a
few years. Any comments from those with experience?


The problem with the battery-driven one is that the bell push is
extremely unreliable - some days it works, some days not. It's on the
porch which faces directly south; thus, it's exposed to the extremes of
weather. I've replaced the battery 3 or 4 times in its life (and the
battery holder seems pretty flimsy to me), and I have sealed the
bell-push with various gunges round the edges every now and again to try
and keep out damp -- but after a period of solid functionality, it
always becomes unreliable again.


One thing that bugs me about the kinetic one is: the bell-push travel
seems tiny (I've tried it through the packaging): how can such a tiny
movement generate enough [whatever]. And how long will _this_ one last,
I wonder?

Cheers
John

People tend to press the button through the circuit board!

On 20/12/2020 12:58, Another John wrote:
I'm planning to get a Byron plug-in wireless kinetic door bell to
replace the battery powered bellpush wireless set that we've had for a
few years. Any comments from those with experience?


The problem with the battery-driven one is that the bell push is
extremely unreliable - some days it works, some days not. It's on the
porch which faces directly south; thus, it's exposed to the extremes of
weather. I've replaced the battery 3 or 4 times in its life (and the
battery holder seems pretty flimsy to me), and I have sealed the
bell-push with various gunges round the edges every now and again to try
and keep out damp -- but after a period of solid functionality, it
always becomes unreliable again.


One thing that bugs me about the kinetic one is: the bell-push travel
seems tiny (I've tried it through the packaging): how can such a tiny
movement generate enough [whatever]. And how long will _this_ one last,
I wonder?

Maybe it's really piezoelectric rather than kinetic.

--
Max Demian

Another John brought next idea :
The problem with the battery-driven one is that the bell push is
extremely unreliable - some days it works, some days not. It's on the
porch which faces directly south; thus, it's exposed to the extremes of
weather. I've replaced the battery 3 or 4 times in its life (and the
battery holder seems pretty flimsy to me), and I have sealed the
bell-push with various gunges round the edges every now and again to try
and keep out damp -- but after a period of solid functionality, it
always becomes unreliable again.

So the problem is a poor quality bell push button?

Why not track down a better quality push button, which is waterproof
and connect it in parallel with the existing one?

I have two remote controls for my roller shutter garage door, one in
the house, other in the car. The buttons of which became iffy after a
few years and I could never lay my hand on them. I simply wired a
centre off, up / down switch to each and fixed the switches one in the
car, one in the house.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Another John brought next idea :
The problem with the battery-driven one is that the bell push is
extremely unreliable - some days it works, some days not. It's on the
porch which faces directly south; thus, it's exposed to the extremes of
weather. I've replaced the battery 3 or 4 times in its life (and the
battery holder seems pretty flimsy to me), and I have sealed the
bell-push with various gunges round the edges every now and again to try
and keep out damp -- but after a period of solid functionality, it
always becomes unreliable again.

So the problem is a poor quality bell push button?

Why not track down a better quality push button, which is waterproof
and connect it in parallel with the existing one?

I have two remote controls for my roller shutter garage door, one in
the house, other in the car. The buttons of which became iffy after a
few years and I could never lay my hand on them. I simply wired a
centre off, up / down switch to each and fixed the switches one in the
car, one in the house.

Lots of these sort of things use 'tactile' switches. My car remote control
does. And they all seem relatively short lived. Luckily replacements are
very cheap. Even although there are variations. I bought an assortment box
from Ebay which covers most.

BTW, a new remote for my car costs over £400 from a dealer including
coding. I suppose no option if you'd lost it. Bought a new case for my
iffy one and replaced the push buttons for about £20 (from Ebay). Good as
new.

--
*I have a degree in liberal arts -- do you want fries with that

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/12/2020 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Another John brought next idea :
The problem with the battery-driven one is that the bell push is
extremely unreliable - some days it works, some days not. It's on the
porch which faces directly south; thus, it's exposed to the extremes of
weather. I've replaced the battery 3 or 4 times in its life (and the
battery holder seems pretty flimsy to me), and I have sealed the
bell-push with various gunges round the edges every now and again to try
and keep out damp -- but after a period of solid functionality, it
always becomes unreliable again.

So the problem is a poor quality bell push button?

Why not track down a better quality push button, which is waterproof
and connect it in parallel with the existing one?

I have two remote controls for my roller shutter garage door, one in
the house, other in the car. The buttons of which became iffy after a
few years and I could never lay my hand on them. I simply wired a
centre off, up / down switch to each and fixed the switches one in the
car, one in the house.

Lots of these sort of things use 'tactile' switches. My car remote control
does. And they all seem relatively short lived. Luckily replacements are
very cheap. Even although there are variations. I bought an assortment box
from Ebay which covers most.

BTW, a new remote for my car costs over £400 from a dealer including
coding. I suppose no option if you'd lost it. Bought a new case for my
iffy one and replaced the push buttons for about £20 (from Ebay). Good as
new.

I've done that too, very easy.

..


If people don't see or hear an immediate response then they press harder on
the button.

?


,,and more prone to damp?

Was thinking about doorbells yesterday after going to someone's house and
resorting to knocking on the window when the door wasn't answered. "Aw, it
hasn't worked for a year or so" Wasn the pathetic response.

I decided I would like one of thos olde worlde pull handles outside - but
when pulled it would sound a very loud "Rat a Tat Tat" from a speaker near
the door pull. the thought amused me.

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 14:55:09 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

Lots of these sort of things use 'tactile' switches. My car remote
control does. And they all seem relatively short lived.

If they are pizeo, surely there's quite a high voltage to be dealt with ?

Not quite sure why they'd be 'pizeo'?

--
*Dance like nobody's watching.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 12:58:29 +0000, Another John wrote:

... and I have sealed the bell-push with various gunges round the edges
every now and again to try and keep out damp ...

Mistake. It's very difficult to seal anything just with "sealant".
Getting a reliable water vapour proof bond between the selant and
substrate is next to imposible. Atmospheric pressure variations force
water vapour in. It then condenses and can't fully get out again.

... -- but after a period of solid functionality, it always becomes
unreliable again.

'cause it gets wet... Unless an enclosure is designed to seal, ie
have a complete, compressable, gasket of some sort between suitable
surfaces its far better to accept that water will get in and give it
some means to get out, ie at or near the lowest point. Doesn't need
to be very big 1 mm maybe 1.5 and sheltered from direct, wind blown,
rain if possible.

Few examples. Exterior "water proof" mains socket, with the cover
clipped down and no plug/cable in place, would end up very wet
inside. Drilled small hole hidden up a recess at the bottom of the
cover. No longer gets wet inside. Rear light cluster had condensation
in it, drilled small hole at the bottom on the back of the unit. Took
a couple of weeks to clear but now doesn't steam up at all.

One thing that bugs me about the kinetic one is: the bell-push travel
seems tiny (I've tried it through the packaging): how can such a tiny
movement generate enough [whatever].

Probably piezo electric but relatively gently flexing the crystal
rather than high stress/sudden release of a high voltage piezo
igniter.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 20/12/2020 12:58, Another John wrote:
I'm planning to get a Byron plug-in wireless kinetic door bell to
replace the battery powered bellpush wireless set that we've had for a
few years. Any comments from those with experience?


We've had this "Innoo" for two years and it's still working perfectly.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B072QVJKKX


--
Reentrant

Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 17:37:18 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 14:55:09 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

Lots of these sort of things use 'tactile' switches. My car remote
control does. And they all seem relatively short lived.

If they are pizeo, surely there's quite a high voltage to be dealt with
?

Not quite sure why they'd be 'pizeo'?

*Shrug*

I saw an array of IoT crap at IBM a while back. "Kinetic" switches etc.
They were pizeo powered. Meaning you could stick them anywhere with no
need for wiring.

I think part of the point of that comment was that it's "Piezo" not
"Pizeo".

I'm not sure anyway if the electricity generating technology in these
'kinetic' door bell switches is Piezo. Take a look at https://www.quinetic.co.uk/
which presumably uses the same method, they certainly don't sat piezo
specifically.

--
Chris Green
·

In article ,
JohnP wrote:


Was thinking about doorbells yesterday after going to someone's house
and resorting to knocking on the window when the door wasn't answered.
"Aw, it hasn't worked for a year or so" Wasn the pathetic response.

I decided I would like one of thos olde worlde pull handles outside -
but when pulled it would sound a very loud "Rat a Tat Tat" from a
speaker near the door pull. the thought amused me.

I fitted wired bells running off a transformer some 40 years ago. With an
illuminated push which goes out when you ring the bell - which you can
hear from outside anyway.

Sometimes, old is better than high tech.

--
*No radio - Already stolen.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 17:37:18 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 14:55:09 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

Lots of these sort of things use 'tactile' switches. My car remote
control does. And they all seem relatively short lived.

If they are pizeo, surely there's quite a high voltage to be dealt with
?

Not quite sure why they'd be 'pizeo'?

*Shrug*

I saw an array of IoT crap at IBM a while back. "Kinetic" switches etc.
They were pizeo powered. Meaning you could stick them anywhere with no
need for wiring.

Ah - right. Didn't think of that. But wouldn't the push button move the
crystal mechanically to generate the power rather than being a switch?

--
*What are the pink bits in my tyres? Cyclists & Joggers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
JohnP wrote:


Was thinking about doorbells yesterday after going to someone's house
and resorting to knocking on the window when the door wasn't answered.
"Aw, it hasn't worked for a year or so" Wasn the pathetic response.

I decided I would like one of thos olde worlde pull handles outside -
but when pulled it would sound a very loud "Rat a Tat Tat" from a
speaker near the door pull. the thought amused me.

I fitted wired bells running off a transformer some 40 years ago. With an
illuminated push which goes out when you ring the bell - which you can
hear from outside anyway.

Sometimes, old is better than high tech.

--
*No radio - Already stolen.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


My bell-push is probably over 100 years old, a big convex brass
thing set into the brickwork with a ceramic button inviting you
to PRESS.
The bell is a Friedland Westminster Chime, a mere 50 years old or so.
--

%Profound_observation%


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 00:54:14 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 17:37:18 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 14:55:09 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

Lots of these sort of things use 'tactile' switches. My car remote
control does. And they all seem relatively short lived.

If they are pizeo, surely there's quite a high voltage to be dealt with
?

Not quite sure why they'd be 'pizeo'?

*Shrug*

I saw an array of IoT crap at IBM a while back. "Kinetic" switches etc.
They were pizeo powered. Meaning you could stick them anywhere with no
need for wiring.

Ah - right. Didn't think of that. But wouldn't the push button move the
crystal mechanically to generate the power rather than being a switch?

My KE 'button' sends the signal upon realease, so it looks as if the push
generates energy both ways. It's hinged at the top so that there isn't a
joint or crack there (not really a hinge, that I can see, perhaps summat
else?). It has a rating of IP(?)5 (can't remember the first figure).
It came with two plug-in sounders; I've split them upstairs and downstairs,
in rooms away fom the party wall and can hear them from all over the house.
One drawback is lack of portability - one in my pocket when I'm in the
garden...
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Dave Plowman wrote:

I fitted wired bells running off a transformer some 40 years ago. With an
illuminated push which goes out when you ring the bell - which you can
hear from outside anyway.

That's what I have ... with my surname in the illuminated window,
doesn't stop drivers knocking instead of, or as well as ringing, or
asking my surname.

OP he thanks so much for all the opinions and advice.

I'm having second thoughts about renewing the wifi bell: as more than
one person has said "Newer is not necessarily better".
(Ho, Yes! I agree with that sentiment alright! "Newer" usually has
more convenience, and lots of "neat" new tricks (if you can be arsed);
but it brings with it a world of niggles, re-learning, complications,
dead-end diagnostics, and ultimately replacement.)

I still have the original decades-old house bell set in place (though
not connected). I may decide to reconnect it, and extend the bell wire
from the house doorpost through the porch to the porch doorpost.

But first I will try following Dave L's excellent advice concerning
sealing something "too well", resulting in condensation: I may have done
that, which would explain a lot.


If I go down the re-install-the-old-bell route: is there any advice on
drilling through the porch door post (which is the usual uPVC with (I
presume) a steel core)?

John


And PS:
Jethro_uk wrote:

There's a whole town in Italy rigged with this stuff that monitors the
(elderly) residents and uses pattern matching (hence IBMs involvement) to
allocate care visits.

Ah, god: I still get a little thrill from seeing that acronym! We had a
giant 360/67, then a massively bigger giant 370/168 at work, 1967 -
1984. (In this particular case, "newer" was in fact better, by an order
of mega-steps :-) We got an Amdahl after that -- astonishingly more
impressive; but it didn't have those powerful three letters.