I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no hammer) and
ID, but the range of model numbers is impenetrable and I haven't found a
simple comparison page. Does such a thing exist, or has anyone got a
decode table for the model numbers?

On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:

I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no hammer) and
ID,

Combi and ID would be the more typical paring, any particular reason for
wanting a DD only?

but the range of model numbers is impenetrable and I haven't found a
simple comparison page.

To paraphrase Douglas Adams, Makita think their range of 18V platform
tools is superior to other brands because the vast range of tools
available. Other brands think their range is superior for the same reason.

Does such a thing exist, or has anyone got a
decode table for the model numbers?

There are prefixes: First letter indicates battery platform. For LiIon
tools that will be:

B Previous range of LiIon batts
D Current range

Anything you buy now will start with a D

Then the next two letters give a bit of information about the class of
tool. So:

TD Impact driver
HP Combi drill
DF Drill driver
HR Rotary hammer (typically SDS)
HS Circular saw
UC Chainsaw
UH Hedge trimmer

(and so on - there are loads of them)


Then you get the model number. As a general rule, like bigger number,
the higher up the range it is - but that is not always the case.
Sometimes you can go by price for a similar indication, but even then
there are some exceptions bases the tools are grouped into ranges.

So for example the following two tools:

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/makita-...th-makpac-case

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/makita-...y-only-ddf481z

The lower numbered one is the higher end tool since its from a different
range. The 483 is a basic DD, and the 481 is one of the range of high
torque DDs. The 483 is smaller lighter, but has no option for a side
handle. The 481 has the torque require to rip your arm off, and comes
with the appropriate side handle!

Then there is a suffix - that normally just tells you about the way its
supplied, what batteries it comes with etc. The most useful on is
probably "Z" which always means "Body Only" - i.e. bare tool with no
case, batts or charger. (very handy once you have enough batts and
chargers). (although ZJ means the same but with a case)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

There are prefixes: First letter indicates battery platform. For LiIon
tools that will be:

BÂ*Â*Â* Previous range of LiIon batts
DÂ*Â*Â* Current range

Then the next two letters give a bit of information about the class of
tool. So:

TDÂ*Â*Â* Impact driver
HPÂ*Â*Â* Combi drill
DFÂ*Â*Â* Drill driver
HRÂ*Â*Â* Rotary hammer (typically SDS)
HSÂ*Â*Â*Â* Circular saw
UCÂ*Â*Â* Chainsaw
UHÂ*Â*Â*Â* Hedge trimmer

(and so on - there are loads of them)

but they seem to vary by continent, so be aware if you see a tool on
youtube, then can't find anyone selling it when you search for that model

e.g in the UK impact wrenches are DTWnnn, in the US they're XWTnnn
drill-drivers DDFnnn vs XFDnnn
chainsaws DUCnnn vs XCUnnn

the theme seems to be swap X and D prefix, reverse the next two letters.

Then there is a suffix - that normally just tells you about the way its
supplied, what batteries it comes with etc. The most useful on is
probably "Z" which always means "Body Only" - i.e. bare tool with no
case, batts or charger. (very handy once you have enough batts and
chargers). (although ZJ means the same but with a case)

I've avoided the cult of systainers and shadow foam, but I thought J
suffix was more specifically a makpac case?

On 13/12/2020 15:57, John Rumm wrote:

HPÂ*Â*Â* Combi drill
DFÂ*Â*Â* Drill driver

What's the difference? My daughter has asked for a drill for Xmas and I
suspect she wants something to drive screws and drill into walls.

I had already decided to go for 18V and probably Makita

AJH wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

HPÂ*Â*Â* Combi drill
DFÂ*Â*Â* Drill driver

What's the difference?

drill-driver has no hammer function.

On 13/12/2020 16:44, Andy Burns wrote:

Then there is a suffix - that normally just tells you about the way
its supplied, what batteries it comes with etc. The most useful on is
probably "Z" which always means "Body Only" - i.e. bare tool with no
case, batts or charger. (very handy once you have enough batts and
chargers). (although ZJ means the same but with a case)

I've avoided the cult of systainers and shadow foam, but I thought J
suffix was more specifically a makpac case?

Yup, quite likely.

(not a great fan of the systainer type cases myself - I find the
previous case type more practical generally)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 13/12/2020 18:11, AJH wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:57, John Rumm wrote:

HPÂ*Â*Â* Combi drill
DFÂ*Â*Â* Drill driver

What's the difference? My daughter has asked for a drill for Xmas and I
suspect she wants something to drive screws and drill into walls.

I had already decided to go for 18V and probably Makita

Combi has three modes:

Drill (i.e. turn only - no clutch)
Screw, turn only user selectable slipping point on clutch
Percussion, drill with hammer action.

DD lack the percussion mode.

The only advantage is its very slightly smaller / lighter and a bit
cheaper. However far less versatile since masonry drilling performance
is very limited without hammer.

(there is a separate class for drills with SDS style hammer)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 13/12/2020 15:57, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:

I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no hammer)
and ID,

Combi and ID would be the more typical paring, any particular reason for
wanting a DD only?
In this house only an SDS will make a dent on the walls, so why have a
(presumed) slight weight and cost penalty to get a hammer function that
I won't use? Once having used an SDS I would never revert to hammer action.

but the range of model numbers is impenetrable and I haven't found a
simple comparison page.

To paraphrase Douglas Adams, Makita think their range of 18V platform
tools is superior to other brands because the vast range of tools
available. Other brands think their range is superior for the same reason.

Does such a thing exist, or has anyone got a decode table for the
model numbers?

There are prefixes: First letter indicates battery platform. For LiIon
tools that will be:

BÂ*Â*Â* Previous range of LiIon batts
DÂ*Â*Â* Current range

Anything you buy now will start with a D

Then the next two letters give a bit of information about the class of
tool. So:

TDÂ*Â*Â* Impact driver
HPÂ*Â*Â* Combi drill
DFÂ*Â*Â* Drill driver
HRÂ*Â*Â* Rotary hammer (typically SDS)
HSÂ*Â*Â*Â* Circular saw
UCÂ*Â*Â* Chainsaw
UHÂ*Â*Â*Â* Hedge trimmer

(and so on - there are loads of them)


Then you get the model number. As a general rule, like bigger number,
the higher up the range it is - but that is not always the case.
Sometimes you can go by price for a similar indication, but even then
there are some exceptions bases the tools are grouped into ranges.

So for example the following two tools:

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/makita-...th-makpac-case


https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/makita-...y-only-ddf481z


The lower numbered one is the higher end tool since its from a different
range. The 483 is a basic DD, and the 481 is one of the range of high
torque DDs. The 483 is smaller lighter, but has no option for a side
handle. The 481 has the torque require to rip your arm off, and comes
with the appropriate side handle!

Then there is a suffix - that normally just tells you about the way its
supplied, what batteries it comes with etc. The most useful on is
probably "Z" which always means "Body Only" - i.e. bare tool with no
case, batts or charger. (very handy once you have enough batts and
chargers). (although ZJ means the same but with a case)


I now understand why I was puzzled ;-)
More seriously, is this all documented somewhere (other than your
excellent response)?

On 13/12/2020 21:32, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:57, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:

I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no hammer)
and ID,

Combi and ID would be the more typical paring, any particular reason
for wanting a DD only?

In this house only an SDS will make a dent on the walls, so why have a
(presumed) slight weight and cost penalty to get a hammer function that
I won't use? Once having used an SDS I would never revert to hammer action.

Armed with a Bosch multimaterial bit, I have found that the combi can be
surprisingly effective on masonry. Somewhat battery than on main
percussion drills I have used in the past.

In fact I quite often find cases where I can do the whole job easily
enough with the combi to not make it worth getting the SDS out. (there
are also times like when working on a ladder its easier)

I now understand why I was puzzled ;-)
More seriously, is this all documented somewhere (other than your
excellent response)?

There are various bits of it scattered about. Sometimes just a good
retailer's site using a suitably qualified search will drill down
(sorry!) through the model range. So for example on the lawson site I
linked before, searching makita drill driver 18v brushless will find
there are 5 products (ans some of those are the same machine in a
different package) that match the search, and its quite easy from there
to look at the specs.


The Makita UK site does have a compare function. So say you go to:

https://www.makitauk.com/products/18v-drill-drivers

You can click on compare for a number of tools. It does suffer a bit by
not having the same set of specs listed for all tools though - or the
naming not being consistent - say listing "Capacity in Steel" on one
drill and no value listed for others, but the others having "Max. in Steel"


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 13/12/2020 22:46, John Rumm wrote:

Armed with a Bosch multimaterial bit, I have found that the combi can be
surprisingly effective on masonry.

+1
I have a 18V makita combi and it surprising what the hammer action gets
through when used with a decent drill bit (Bosch multi-construction bit
or a decent masonry bit)

https://www.toolstation.com/bosch-mu...bit-set/p66729

I would use the hammer on my combi for drilling up to 10mm in to brick.

I would still use my 2kg Dewalt mains SDS for real serious work



In fact I quite often find cases where I can do the whole job easily
enough with the combi to not make it worth getting the SDS out. (there
are also times like when working on a ladder its easier)

+1

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 13/12/2020 22:46, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/12/2020 21:32, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:57, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:

I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no hammer)
and ID,

Combi and ID would be the more typical paring, any particular reason
for wanting a DD only?

In this house only an SDS will make a dent on the walls, so why have a
(presumed) slight weight and cost penalty to get a hammer function
that I won't use? Once having used an SDS I would never revert to
hammer action.

Armed with a Bosch multimaterial bit, I have found that the combi can be
surprisingly effective on masonry. Somewhat battery than on main
percussion drills I have used in the past.

In fact I quite often find cases where I can do the whole job easily
enough with the combi to not make it worth getting the SDS out. (there
are also times like when working on a ladder its easier)
My experience of hammer drills comes from 10+ years of using B&D mains
hammer drills before I discovered SDS. I still have one lying around
which was fine with brick and block walls but which won't touch these
walls, which are made of unusual and very hard (and very heavy!)
concrete blocks that are about 820x230x110mm. I presume the modern
hammer drills still have a ramped disk that makes the chuck move
forwards and backwards slightly(?) - are they hugely better than the old
B&D ones?

I now understand why I was puzzled ;-)
More seriously, is this all documented somewhere (other than your
excellent response)?

There are various bits of it scattered about. Sometimes just a good
retailer's site using a suitably qualified search will drill down
(sorry!) through the model range. So for example on the lawson site I
linked before, searching makita drill driver 18v brushless will find
there are 5 products (ans some of those are the same machine in a
different package) that match the search, and its quite easy from there
to look at the specs.


The Makita UK site does have a compare function. So say you go to:

https://www.makitauk.com/products/18v-drill-drivers

You can click on compare for a number of tools. It does suffer a bit by
not having the same set of specs listed for all tools though - or the
naming not being consistent - say listing "Capacity in Steel" on one
drill and no value listed for others, but the others having "Max. in Steel"

I'd found that but was hoping for some simple comparison table to make
it easy for potential customers to be Mak products. I'll have to keep
wading through the number swamp.

wrote:

I presume the modern hammer drills still have a ramped disk that makes
the chuck move forwards and backwards slightly(?) - are they hugely
better than the old B&D ones?

Presumably still the same design, sometimes that is enough and an SDS
would be too much, IME it's worth having both types of drill available,
presumably like most of us you use your tools on friends/relatives
houses as well as your own?

On 14/12/2020 17:02, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 22:46, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/12/2020 21:32, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:57, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:

I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no
hammer) and ID,

Combi and ID would be the more typical paring, any particular reason
for wanting a DD only?

In this house only an SDS will make a dent on the walls, so why have
a (presumed) slight weight and cost penalty to get a hammer function
that I won't use? Once having used an SDS I would never revert to
hammer action.

Armed with a Bosch multimaterial bit, I have found that the combi can
be surprisingly effective on masonry. Somewhat battery than on main
percussion drills I have used in the past.

In fact I quite often find cases where I can do the whole job easily
enough with the combi to not make it worth getting the SDS out. (there
are also times like when working on a ladder its easier)

My experience of hammer drills comes from 10+ years of using B&D mains
hammer drills before I discovered SDS. I still have one lying around
which was fine with brick and block walls but which won't touch these
walls, which are made of unusual and very hard (and very heavy!)
concrete blocks that are about 820x230x110mm. I presume the modern
hammer drills still have a ramped disk that makes the chuck move
forwards and backwards slightly(?) - are they hugely better than the old
B&D ones?

IIUC its a similar concept of operation, but it does seem to work
better. I get the impression there is more travel on the hammer action
than that on the B&D's of old (which tended to be lots of noise and some
vibration, but not much actual hammer!)

Case in point, previous house had a very hard render, and I remember
spending 15 mins trying to drill one hole with a new masonry bit in a
green Bosch hammer drill - the wall was having none of it.

Some time later I needed to stick in a hole in the wall but while up a
ladder, and decided to give it a try with the combi - fully expecting to
be met with similar dismal performance and have to go get out the SDS
and extension lead. I was very surprised that it coped quite easily. Now
this is not a like for like comparison since I had also discovered the
Bosch multimaterial bits by then. But I have found the combi useable as
a hammer drill on many occasions. So with that experience I personally
would opt for the combi version each time since the extra versatility
outweighs the minor down sides IMHO.

The Makita UK site does have a compare function. So say you go to:

https://www.makitauk.com/products/18v-drill-drivers

You can click on compare for a number of tools. It does suffer a bit
by not having the same set of specs listed for all tools though - or
the naming not being consistent - say listing "Capacity in Steel" on
one drill and no value listed for others, but the others having "Max.
in Steel"

I'd found that but was hoping for some simple comparison table to make
it easy for potential customers to be Mak products. I'll have to keep
wading through the number swamp.

Its not as bad as it first seems - if you specify say DD and brushless
in your search you are rapidly down to only a handful. You can assess
visually which have big side handles are the high torque ones. So you
will likely be only comparing two or three tools at that point.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 14/12/2020 18:16, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/12/2020 17:02, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 22:46, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/12/2020 21:32, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:57, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:

I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no
hammer) and ID,

Combi and ID would be the more typical paring, any particular
reason for wanting a DD only?

In this house only an SDS will make a dent on the walls, so why have
a (presumed) slight weight and cost penalty to get a hammer function
that I won't use? Once having used an SDS I would never revert to
hammer action.

Armed with a Bosch multimaterial bit, I have found that the combi can
be surprisingly effective on masonry. Somewhat battery than on main
percussion drills I have used in the past.

In fact I quite often find cases where I can do the whole job easily
enough with the combi to not make it worth getting the SDS out.
(there are also times like when working on a ladder its easier)

My experience of hammer drills comes from 10+ years of using B&D mains
hammer drills before I discovered SDS. I still have one lying around
which was fine with brick and block walls but which won't touch these
walls, which are made of unusual and very hard (and very heavy!)
concrete blocks that are about 820x230x110mm. I presume the modern
hammer drills still have a ramped disk that makes the chuck move
forwards and backwards slightly(?) - are they hugely better than the
old B&D ones?

IIUC its a similar concept of operation, but it does seem to work
better. I get the impression there is more travel on the hammer action
than that on the B&D's of old (which tended to be lots of noise and some
vibration, but not much actual hammer!)

Case in point, previous house had a very hard render, and I remember
spending 15 mins trying to drill one hole with a new masonry bit in a
green Bosch hammer drill - the wall was having none of it.

Some time later I needed to stick in a hole in the wall but while up a
ladder, and decided to give it a try with the combi - fully expecting to
be met with similar dismal performance and have to go get out the SDS
and extension lead. I was very surprised that it coped quite easily. Now
this is not a like for like comparison since I had also discovered the
Bosch multimaterial bits by then. But I have found the combi useable as
a hammer drill on many occasions. So with that experience I personally
would opt for the combi version each time since the extra versatility
outweighs the minor down sides IMHO.

The Makita UK site does have a compare function. So say you go to:

https://www.makitauk.com/products/18v-drill-drivers

You can click on compare for a number of tools. It does suffer a bit
by not having the same set of specs listed for all tools though - or
the naming not being consistent - say listing "Capacity in Steel" on
one drill and no value listed for others, but the others having "Max.
in Steel"

I'd found that but was hoping for some simple comparison table to make
it easy for potential customers to be Mak products. I'll have to keep
wading through the number swamp.

Its not as bad as it first seems - if you specify say DD and brushless
in your search you are rapidly down to only a handful. You can assess
visually which have big side handles are the high torque ones. So you
will likely be only comparing two or three tools at that point.



Well, I've just spent a couple of hours looking around the web and it
seems that the DHP481 or DDF481 are the models to choose, with the
weights, sizes and prices being quite similar - so I'm prepared to go
for the combi. Because of the staggering and confusing number of options
it's very difficult to find the best deal, especially when the likes of
FFX have the bare DHP481 for £150 and with a 5Ah battery for £267, yet
the 5Ah battery by itself is available for £75. It's bad enough to make
me want to give up and buy a brand that knows how to market sensibly and
transparently.
It seems that the ID of choice is either the DTD171 or the DTD154, so it
would be great to find someone who will sell one of these as a package
with the 481 ... but I'm not sure I've got the will to keep looking :-(

wrote:

It seems that the ID of choice is either the DTD171 or the DTD154, so it
would be great to find someone who will sell one of these as a package
with the 481

combo sets

https://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/brands/makita/makita-drills/makita-combo-kits

On 15/12/2020 21:21, wrote:

Well, I've just spent a couple of hours looking around the web and it
seems that the DHP481 or DDF481 are the models to choose, with the
weights, sizes and prices being quite similar - so I'm prepared to go
for the combi. Because of the staggering and confusing number of options
it's very difficult to find the best deal, especially when the likes of
FFX have the bare DHP481 for £150 and with a 5Ah battery for £267, yet
the 5Ah battery by itself is available for £75. It's bad enough to make
me want to give up and buy a brand that knows how to market sensibly and
transparently.

Don't overlook that if buying a bare unit and a battery separately that
you also need the charger.
Does the £267 kit also contain the charger and perhaps a carry case?


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 15/12/2020 22:54, alan_m wrote:
On 15/12/2020 21:21, wrote:

Well, I've just spent a couple of hours looking around the web and it
seems that the DHP481 or DDF481 are the models to choose, with the
weights, sizes and prices being quite similar - so I'm prepared to go
for the combi. Because of the staggering and confusing number of
options it's very difficult to find the best deal, especially when the
likes of FFX have the bare DHP481 for £150 and with a 5Ah battery for
£267, yet the 5Ah battery by itself is available for £75. It's bad
enough to make me want to give up and buy a brand that knows how to
market sensibly and transparently.

Don't overlook that if buying a bare unit and a battery separately that
you also need the charger.
Does the £267 kit also contain the charger and perhaps a carry case?


I've already got a charger and two 5Ah batteries (I bought the 36V
plunge/track saw a short while ago - expensive but superb)

On 15/12/2020 21:21, wrote:
On 14/12/2020 18:16, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/12/2020 17:02, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 22:46, John Rumm wrote:

The Makita UK site does have a compare function. So say you go to:

https://www.makitauk.com/products/18v-drill-drivers

You can click on compare for a number of tools. It does suffer a bit
by not having the same set of specs listed for all tools though - or
the naming not being consistent - say listing "Capacity in Steel" on
one drill and no value listed for others, but the others having
"Max. in Steel"

I'd found that but was hoping for some simple comparison table to
make it easy for potential customers to be Mak products. I'll have to
keep wading through the number swamp.

Its not as bad as it first seems - if you specify say DD and brushless
in your search you are rapidly down to only a handful. You can assess
visually which have big side handles are the high torque ones. So you
will likely be only comparing two or three tools at that point.



Well, I've just spent a couple of hours looking around the web and it
seems that the DHP481 or DDF481 are the models to choose, with the
weights, sizes and prices being quite similar - so I'm prepared to go

115Nm of torque ought to be enough :-)

for the combi. Because of the staggering and confusing number of options
it's very difficult to find the best deal, especially when the likes of
FFX have the bare DHP481 for £150 and with a 5Ah battery for £267, yet
the 5Ah battery by itself is available for £75. It's bad enough to make
me want to give up and buy a brand that knows how to market sensibly and
transparently.

I could not see those exact deals at FFX - body only was £150, but £295
for + 2x4Ah, or £300 for 2x5Ah

The £300 deal seems ok since its equal to the cost of the two 5Ah batts,
but you get a case and charger as well.

(although Lawson are doing the same kit at £290)

It seems that the ID of choice is either the DTD171 or the DTD154, so it
would be great to find someone who will sell one of these as a package
with the 481 ... but I'm not sure I've got the will to keep looking :-(

Closest I saw was:

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/makita-...-brushless-kit

But not that impressed with the price!

Might also be worth considering if you particularly want/need brushless
- since with a drill and ID you will get quite significant run time on a
5Ah battery anyway. BL give some extra toys like constant speed with
varying load, and on very high drain tools like angle grinders, BL is
well worth it.

When I replaced my NiMh kit I went for a kit like:

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/makita-...aces-dlx2005mj

as a starting point, and bought another twin pack of bats and the other
tools I need body only.

So far they have tackled anything and everything I have thrown at them.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message ,
writes

Well, I've just spent a couple of hours looking around the web and it
seems that the DHP481 or DDF481 are the models to choose, with the
weights, sizes and prices being quite similar - so I'm prepared to go
for the combi. Because of the staggering and confusing number of
options it's very difficult to find the best deal, especially when the
likes of FFX have the bare DHP481 for £150 and with a 5Ah battery for
£267, yet the 5Ah battery by itself is available for £75. It's bad
enough to make me want to give up and buy a brand that knows how to
market sensibly and transparently.
It seems that the ID of choice is either the DTD171 or the DTD154, so
it would be great to find someone who will sell one of these as a
package with the 481 ... but I'm not sure I've got the will to keep
looking :-(

ITS London do a fair bit of Makita stuff. Deals tend to crop up when a
product is being replaced or not selling well.
--
Tim Lamb

On 16/12/2020 01:16, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/12/2020 21:21, wrote:
On 14/12/2020 18:16, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/12/2020 17:02, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 22:46, John Rumm wrote:

The Makita UK site does have a compare function. So say you go to:

https://www.makitauk.com/products/18v-drill-drivers

You can click on compare for a number of tools. It does suffer a
bit by not having the same set of specs listed for all tools though
- or the naming not being consistent - say listing "Capacity in
Steel" on one drill and no value listed for others, but the others
having "Max. in Steel"

I'd found that but was hoping for some simple comparison table to
make it easy for potential customers to be Mak products. I'll have
to keep wading through the number swamp.

Its not as bad as it first seems - if you specify say DD and
brushless in your search you are rapidly down to only a handful. You
can assess visually which have big side handles are the high torque
ones. So you will likely be only comparing two or three tools at that
point.



Well, I've just spent a couple of hours looking around the web and it
seems that the DHP481 or DDF481 are the models to choose, with the
weights, sizes and prices being quite similar - so I'm prepared to go

115Nm of torque ought to be enough :-)

for the combi. Because of the staggering and confusing number of
options it's very difficult to find the best deal, especially when the
likes of FFX have the bare DHP481 for £150 and with a 5Ah battery for
£267, yet the 5Ah battery by itself is available for £75. It's bad
enough to make me want to give up and buy a brand that knows how to
market sensibly and transparently.

I could not see those exact deals at FFX - body only was £150, but £295
for + 2x4Ah, or £300 for 2x5Ah

The £300 deal seems ok since its equal to the cost of the two 5Ah batts,
but you get a case and charger as well.

(although Lawson are doing the same kit at £290)

It seems that the ID of choice is either the DTD171 or the DTD154, so
it would be great to find someone who will sell one of these as a
package with the 481 ... but I'm not sure I've got the will to keep
looking :-(

Closest I saw was:

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/makita-...-brushless-kit


But not that impressed with the price!

Might also be worth considering if you particularly want/need brushless
- since with a drill and ID you will get quite significant run time on a
5Ah battery anyway. BL give some extra toys like constant speed with
varying load, and on very high drain tools like angle grinders, BL is
well worth it.

When I replaced my NiMh kit I went for a kit like:

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/makita-...aces-dlx2005mj


as a starting point, and bought another twin pack of bats and the other
tools I need body only.

So far they have tackled anything and everything I have thrown at them.

It seemed that N&B Power Tools currently have the best price so a
DHP481, DTD154 and battery will be dropping through the letter box in a
few days time. This will probably be the cue for someone to tell me
they're a bad choice and are much cheaper at xyz.com :-(

Tim Lamb wrote:

ITS London do a fair bit of Makita stuff. Deals tend to crop up when a
product is being replaced or not selling well.

Either ITS, or buyaparcel.com

On 16/12/2020 09:32, wrote:
snip

It seemed that N&B Power Tools currently have the best price so a
DHP481, DTD154 and battery will be dropping through the letter box in a
few days time. This will probably be the cue for someone to tell me
they're a bad choice and are much cheaper at xyz.com

you must have one FO big letter box...

or you've bought scale models designed for Barbie's Ken in his
construction worker role


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 16/12/2020 09:40, Robin wrote:
On 16/12/2020 09:32, wrote:
snip

It seemed that N&B Power Tools currently have the best price so a
DHP481, DTD154 and battery will be dropping through the letter box in
a few days time. This will probably be the cue for someone to tell me
they're a bad choice and are much cheaper at xyz.com

you must have one FO big letter box...

or you've bought scale models designed for Barbie's Ken in his
construction worker role


Who's to say that I don't have Barbie screwing and drilling for me ;-)
(brought back memories of "Hello Barbie, Let's go party", one of those
awful songs that maggot around the head
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyhrYis509A)

wrote:

Who's to say that I don't have Barbie screwing and drilling for me

UR "benny benassi" AICM£5

On 16/12/2020 09:56, wrote:
On 16/12/2020 09:40, Robin wrote:
On 16/12/2020 09:32, wrote:
snip

It seemed that N&B Power Tools currently have the best price so a
DHP481, DTD154 and battery will be dropping through the letter box in
a few days time. This will probably be the cue for someone to tell me
they're a bad choice and are much cheaper at xyz.com

you must have one FO big letter box...

or you've bought scale models designed for Barbie's Ken in his
construction worker role


Who's to say that I don't have Barbie screwing and drilling for me ;-)
(brought back memories of "Hello Barbie, Let's go party", one of those
awful songs that maggot around the head
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyhrYis509A)

I cant work out whether that is a work of genius or utter ****, really.

--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On 16/12/2020 10:10, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote:

Who's to say that I don't have Barbie screwing and drilling for me

UR "benny benassi" AICM£5
The cheque is in the post :-)

On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:
I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no hammer) and
ID, but the range of model numbers is impenetrable and I haven't found a
simple comparison page. Does such a thing exist, or has anyone got a
decode table for the model numbers?

After much helpful input from JR and others I went for the DHP481 and
DTD154, which arrived today. Here are some first impressions in case
anyone else is contemplating a similar present to themselves. Ergonomics
and "feel of quality" are excellent. Size is good without battery, but
the drill is a bit cumbersome with the battery and surprisingly heavy (I
read the specs but it's different when the weight is in the hand).
Power, performance and controllability are all superb (much better than
my ancient DeWalt ID and drills) but the very long side handle on the
drill suggests that the torque may lead to care being needed at times.
The ID is so good that I doubt I'll use anything else for screw driving.
I haven't tried the hammer function on the drill yet but will order some
of the Bosch drills.
HTH.

wrote:

Size is good without battery, but the drill is a bit cumbersome with the
battery and surprisingly heavy

As well as various 3.0/5.0/6.0Ah batteries, I have one 2.0Ah battery for
times when a light tool+battery combo is welcome.

On 17/12/2020 15:36, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote:

Size is good without battery, but the drill is a bit cumbersome with
the battery and surprisingly heavy

As well as various 3.0/5.0/6.0Ah batteries, I have one 2.0Ah battery for
times when a light tool+battery combo is welcome.

I saw that the 3, 4, 5, and 6Ah batteries were all essentially the same
weight and that the 2Ah battery is about 0.22kg less - that doesn't seem
much of a difference. I've got a couple of Metabo 10.8V drill drivers
(highly recommended!) and will keep those for when the new Mak is a bit
too much.
I've spent the afternoon making and fitting a hob extractor (more to do)
and am very impressed with the Mak ID - a wonderful beast.

On 17/12/2020 13:07, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:
I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no hammer)
and ID, but the range of model numbers is impenetrable and I haven't
found a simple comparison page. Does such a thing exist, or has anyone
got a decode table for the model numbers?

After much helpful input from JR and others I went for the DHP481 and
DTD154, which arrived today. Here are some first impressions in case
anyone else is contemplating a similar present to themselves. Ergonomics
and "feel of quality" are excellent. Size is good without battery, but
the drill is a bit cumbersome with the battery and surprisingly heavy (I
read the specs but it's different when the weight is in the hand).
Power, performance and controllability are all superb (much better than
my ancient DeWalt ID and drills) but the very long side handle on the
drill suggests that the torque may lead to care being needed at times.
The ID is so good that I doubt I'll use anything else for screw driving.
I haven't tried the hammer function on the drill yet but will order some
of the Bosch drills.
HTH.
A quick update in case anyone is interested ...
On JR's recommendation I bought the Bosch Multi-material bits in the
hope that the Mak hammer function would be useful; it isn't. The bits
just rattle against the dense blocks in my 30s house whereas the elderly
2kg DeWalt SDS sails through them fairly easily. It might be some use in
modern blockwork, but not mine.

In my experience Bosch Multimaterial bits are indeed very good, but not good enough to drill into the bricks found in a 1930s semi - you need and SDS drill for that as the bricks are so incredibly hard

On 16/01/2021 12:16, wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:07, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:
I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no hammer)
and ID, but the range of model numbers is impenetrable and I haven't
found a simple comparison page. Does such a thing exist, or has
anyone got a decode table for the model numbers?

After much helpful input from JR and others I went for the DHP481 and
DTD154, which arrived today. Here are some first impressions in case
anyone else is contemplating a similar present to themselves.
Ergonomics and "feel of quality" are excellent. Size is good without
battery, but the drill is a bit cumbersome with the battery and
surprisingly heavy (I read the specs but it's different when the
weight is in the hand). Power, performance and controllability are all
superb (much better than my ancient DeWalt ID and drills) but the very
long side handle on the drill suggests that the torque may lead to
care being needed at times. The ID is so good that I doubt I'll use
anything else for screw driving. I haven't tried the hammer function
on the drill yet but will order some of the Bosch drills.
HTH.

A quick update in case anyone is interested ...
On JR's recommendation I bought the Bosch Multi-material bits in the
hope that the Mak hammer function would be useful; it isn't. The bits
just rattle against the dense blocks in my 30s house whereas the elderly
2kg DeWalt SDS sails through them fairly easily. It might be some use in
modern blockwork, but not mine.

They must be impressive blocks then!

(I can drill a blue engineering brick (slowly) with a multi material bit
in a 18V combi drill)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 16/01/2021 18:14, John Rumm wrote:

They must be impressive blocks then!

(I can drill a blue engineering brick (slowly) with a multi material bit
in a 18V combi drill)

+1

I've just tried it with a very hard brick. 18V cordless drill, not on
hammer, inch deep hole in under 5 seconds.

I've also drilled through concrete paving slabs using these bits with
relative ease, again with a 18V cordless (not SDS)


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 16/01/2021 18:14, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/01/2021 12:16, wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:07, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:
I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no hammer)
and ID, but the range of model numbers is impenetrable and I haven't
found a simple comparison page. Does such a thing exist, or has
anyone got a decode table for the model numbers?

After much helpful input from JR and others I went for the DHP481 and
DTD154, which arrived today. Here are some first impressions in case
anyone else is contemplating a similar present to themselves.
Ergonomics and "feel of quality" are excellent. Size is good without
battery, but the drill is a bit cumbersome with the battery and
surprisingly heavy (I read the specs but it's different when the
weight is in the hand). Power, performance and controllability are
all superb (much better than my ancient DeWalt ID and drills) but the
very long side handle on the drill suggests that the torque may lead
to care being needed at times. The ID is so good that I doubt I'll
use anything else for screw driving. I haven't tried the hammer
function on the drill yet but will order some of the Bosch drills.
HTH.

A quick update in case anyone is interested ...
On JR's recommendation I bought the Bosch Multi-material bits in the
hope that the Mak hammer function would be useful; it isn't. The bits
just rattle against the dense blocks in my 30s house whereas the
elderly 2kg DeWalt SDS sails through them fairly easily. It might be
some use in modern blockwork, but not mine.

They must be impressive blocks then!

(I can drill a blue engineering brick (slowly) with a multi material bit
in a 18V combi drill)


AFAIK they're unique to this area: the English side of the Welsh borders.

On 16/01/2021 21:36, wrote:
On 16/01/2021 18:14, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/01/2021 12:16, wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:07, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:
I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no
hammer) and ID, but the range of model numbers is impenetrable and
I haven't found a simple comparison page. Does such a thing exist,
or has anyone got a decode table for the model numbers?

After much helpful input from JR and others I went for the DHP481
and DTD154, which arrived today. Here are some first impressions in
case anyone else is contemplating a similar present to themselves.
Ergonomics and "feel of quality" are excellent. Size is good without
battery, but the drill is a bit cumbersome with the battery and
surprisingly heavy (I read the specs but it's different when the
weight is in the hand). Power, performance and controllability are
all superb (much better than my ancient DeWalt ID and drills) but
the very long side handle on the drill suggests that the torque may
lead to care being needed at times. The ID is so good that I doubt
I'll use anything else for screw driving. I haven't tried the hammer
function on the drill yet but will order some of the Bosch drills.
HTH.

A quick update in case anyone is interested ...
On JR's recommendation I bought the Bosch Multi-material bits in the
hope that the Mak hammer function would be useful; it isn't. The bits
just rattle against the dense blocks in my 30s house whereas the
elderly 2kg DeWalt SDS sails through them fairly easily. It might be
some use in modern blockwork, but not mine.

They must be impressive blocks then!

(I can drill a blue engineering brick (slowly) with a multi material
bit in a 18V combi drill)


AFAIK they're unique to this area: the English side of the Welsh borders.

Sounds like they must be close to porcelain in hardness then. You may
find those miniature[1] grit edged hole saws will cut them in which case.

[1] available in typical drill diameters like 6, 7, 8 mm etc.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/01/2021 01:06, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/01/2021 21:36, wrote:
On 16/01/2021 18:14, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/01/2021 12:16, wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:07, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:
I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no
hammer) and ID, but the range of model numbers is impenetrable and
I haven't found a simple comparison page. Does such a thing exist,
or has anyone got a decode table for the model numbers?

After much helpful input from JR and others I went for the DHP481
and DTD154, which arrived today. Here are some first impressions in
case anyone else is contemplating a similar present to themselves.
Ergonomics and "feel of quality" are excellent. Size is good
without battery, but the drill is a bit cumbersome with the battery
and surprisingly heavy (I read the specs but it's different when
the weight is in the hand). Power, performance and controllability
are all superb (much better than my ancient DeWalt ID and drills)
but the very long side handle on the drill suggests that the torque
may lead to care being needed at times. The ID is so good that I
doubt I'll use anything else for screw driving. I haven't tried the
hammer function on the drill yet but will order some of the Bosch
drills.
HTH.

A quick update in case anyone is interested ...
On JR's recommendation I bought the Bosch Multi-material bits in the
hope that the Mak hammer function would be useful; it isn't. The
bits just rattle against the dense blocks in my 30s house whereas
the elderly 2kg DeWalt SDS sails through them fairly easily. It
might be some use in modern blockwork, but not mine.

They must be impressive blocks then!

(I can drill a blue engineering brick (slowly) with a multi material
bit in a 18V combi drill)


AFAIK they're unique to this area: the English side of the Welsh borders.

Sounds like they must be close to porcelain in hardness then. You may
find those miniature[1] grit edged hole saws will cut them in which case.

[1] available in typical drill diameters like 6, 7, 8 mm etc.

They cut, chisel and (SDS) drill just like other dense blocks, so
stitch-drilling and then SDS chisel is the best way to cut in situ;
diamond-tipped hole saws work fine. The slightly odd thing is that
they're about 32" long (9" high) - when I took the first wall down I
discovered they're also f...'ing heavy.

On 16/01/2021 12:16, wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:07, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:
I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no hammer)
and ID, but the range of model numbers is impenetrable and I haven't
found a simple comparison page. Does such a thing exist, or has
anyone got a decode table for the model numbers?

After much helpful input from JR and others I went for the DHP481 and
DTD154, which arrived today. Here are some first impressions in case
anyone else is contemplating a similar present to themselves.
Ergonomics and "feel of quality" are excellent. Size is good without
battery, but the drill is a bit cumbersome with the battery and
surprisingly heavy (I read the specs but it's different when the
weight is in the hand). Power, performance and controllability are all
superb (much better than my ancient DeWalt ID and drills) but the very
long side handle on the drill suggests that the torque may lead to
care being needed at times. The ID is so good that I doubt I'll use
anything else for screw driving. I haven't tried the hammer function
on the drill yet but will order some of the Bosch drills.
HTH.
A quick update in case anyone is interested ...
On JR's recommendation I bought the Bosch Multi-material bits in the
hope that the Mak hammer function would be useful; it isn't. The bits
just rattle against the dense blocks in my 30s house whereas the elderly
2kg DeWalt SDS sails through them fairly easily. It might be some use in
modern blockwork, but not mine.
A further update (in the unlikely case that someone is still interested
;-) ): I've changed my opinion, slightly. With old-style hammer drills
and masonry bits it was usual to use a low speed, so that's what I tried
with the Mak and Bosch bits. Recently I had to do something that would
have been awkward with the mains SDS so I tried the Mak+Bosch bits
again, but at high speed - they worked quite well but it needed a lot of
pressure. There was a small amount of "wander" once they'd gone through
the plaster and before they'd started in the blocks, but I dealt with
this by starting with a small bit and then using the final size.

On 27/02/2021 09:11, wrote:
On 16/01/2021 12:16, wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:07, wrote:
On 13/12/2020 15:14, wrote:
I'd decided to treat myself to a Mak 18V brushless drill (no hammer)
and ID, but the range of model numbers is impenetrable and I haven't
found a simple comparison page. Does such a thing exist, or has
anyone got a decode table for the model numbers?

After much helpful input from JR and others I went for the DHP481 and
DTD154, which arrived today. Here are some first impressions in case
anyone else is contemplating a similar present to themselves.
Ergonomics and "feel of quality" are excellent. Size is good without
battery, but the drill is a bit cumbersome with the battery and
surprisingly heavy (I read the specs but it's different when the
weight is in the hand). Power, performance and controllability are
all superb (much better than my ancient DeWalt ID and drills) but the
very long side handle on the drill suggests that the torque may lead
to care being needed at times. The ID is so good that I doubt I'll
use anything else for screw driving. I haven't tried the hammer
function on the drill yet but will order some of the Bosch drills.
HTH.
A quick update in case anyone is interested ...
On JR's recommendation I bought the Bosch Multi-material bits in the
hope that the Mak hammer function would be useful; it isn't. The bits
just rattle against the dense blocks in my 30s house whereas the
elderly 2kg DeWalt SDS sails through them fairly easily. It might be
some use in modern blockwork, but not mine.


A further update (in the unlikely case that someone is still interested
;-) ):

Still listening :-)

I've changed my opinion, slightly. With old-style hammer drills
and masonry bits it was usual to use a low speed, so that's what I tried
with the Mak and Bosch bits. Recently I had to do something that would
have been awkward with the mains SDS so I tried the Mak+Bosch bits
again, but at high speed - they worked quite well but it needed a lot of
pressure. There was a small amount of "wander" once they'd gone through
the plaster and before they'd started in the blocks, but I dealt with
this by starting with a small bit and then using the final size.

Ah, yes good point about the speed, my fault, I had not thought to
mention it.

(I always found "percussion" hammer drilling to work better at high
speeds, so would not normally use the combination of low speed and hammer).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/