Hi all
To those that recognise me - long time no see, it's been a while!!

I'm wanting to re-cell my old cordless Makita 8390D drill - at least one of the three power packs, maybe more.... I'm aware that finding decent quality cells to replace the originals is a complete jungle, so I'm wondering if anyone who's done this before can recommend a good supplier of decent kit please?

Part 2 of the question is that the original power packs are NiCd. The OEM charger (a DC1804T) states that it's good for both NiMH and NiCd: so does that mean I can buy NiMH cells and simply swap those out for the existing duff NiCd items? Or will there be electronickery inside the power packs that I would need to contend with, and should therefore stick with NiCd?

Thanks a lot for any pointers

On 17/11/2020 20:14, Lobster wrote:
Hi all
To those that recognise me - long time no see, it's been a while!!

I'm wanting to re-cell my old cordless Makita 8390D drill - at least one of the three power packs, maybe more.... I'm aware that finding decent quality cells to replace the originals is a complete jungle, so I'm wondering if anyone who's done this before can recommend a good supplier of decent kit please?

Part 2 of the question is that the original power packs are NiCd. The OEM charger (a DC1804T) states that it's good for both NiMH and NiCd: so does that mean I can buy NiMH cells and simply swap those out for the existing duff NiCd items? Or will there be electronickery inside the power packs that I would need to contend with, and should therefore stick with NiCd?

Thanks a lot for any pointers

Is it worth it? Third party NiMH packs are available for my old Maks at
half the price of OEM. Ebay, in spite of the dodgy name "Floureon" have
been fine for me.

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:14:32 -0800 (PST), Lobster
wrote:

snip

Part 2 of the question is that the original power packs are NiCd. The OEM charger (a DC1804T) states that it's good for both NiMH and NiCd: so does that mean I can buy NiMH cells and simply swap those out for the existing duff NiCd items?

If that is the case then potentially 'yes'.

Or will there be electronickery inside the power packs that I would need to contend with, and should therefore stick with NiCd?

Not that should care AFAIK as with NiCd / NiMh most of the
'intelligence is in the charger. I don't think they have any voltage
protection / cutoff in the battery as shown by the fact they (or all
the ones I have ever played with) do get slower and slower, rather
than just cut off, as per most lithium powered things.

You are probably looking for 'tagged' sub C cells but it's best to
check what's in there first.

Cheers, T i m

On 17/11/2020 20:14, Lobster wrote:

Hi all To those that recognise me - long time no see, it's been a
while!!

Welcome back :-)

I'm wanting to re-cell my old cordless Makita 8390D drill - at least
one of the three power packs, maybe more.... I'm aware that finding
decent quality cells to replace the originals is a complete jungle,
so I'm wondering if anyone who's done this before can recommend a
good supplier of decent kit please?

Not bought any NiMh cells in ages so hard to recommend. CPC will
probably do you "real" ones - but may be far from the cheapest.

Part 2 of the question is that the original power packs are NiCd.
The OEM charger (a DC1804T) states that it's good for both NiMH and
NiCd: so does that mean I can buy NiMH cells and simply swap those
out for the existing duff NiCd items? Or will there be
electronickery inside the power packs that I would need to contend
with, and should therefore stick with NiCd?

It should be fine with NiMh - the tools were the same, and the chargers
will do either. There are no particular smarts in the battery itself
except for perhaps a temperature sensor.

You can still buy the NiMh cells new (OEM and "compatible").

You can also get adaptors that will let you fit the modern LiIon packs
onto the old drills although you need to be careful to not run the packs
too low since the old drills don't have any smarts to communicate with
the battery management system in the new batts - so you run a higher
risk of bricking a battery.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/11/2020 20:14, Lobster wrote:
Part 2 of the question is that the original power packs are NiCd. The OEM charger (a DC1804T) states that it's good for both NiMH and NiCd: so does that mean I can buy NiMH cells and simply swap those out for the existing duff NiCd items? Or will there be electronickery inside the power packs that I would need to contend with, and should therefore stick with NiCd?

IF the charger can cope with either, then yes you can swap one for the
other.

But consider the cost. Re celling may be as expensive as a new drill and
battery with LI ION ...

In general a sub C Nixx is between £2 and £5. 8 of then is already
£16-£40....

https://www.batteriesplus.co.uk/acat...d_Battery.html


--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

In message
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/11/2020 20:14, Lobster wrote:
Part 2 of the question is that the original power packs are NiCd. The OEM
charger (a DC1804T) states that it's good for both NiMH and NiCd: so does
that mean I can buy NiMH cells and simply swap those out for the existing
duff NiCd items? Or will there be electronickery inside the power packs
that I would need to contend with, and should therefore stick with NiCd?

IF the charger can cope with either, then yes you can swap one for the
other.

But consider the cost. Re celling may be as expensive as a new drill and
battery with LI ION ...

In general a sub C Nixx is between £2 and £5. 8 of then is already
£16-£40....

https://www.batteriesplus.co.uk/acat...Tagged_Battery
.html

I have recently re-celled an ancient B & D electric screwdriver using
cells from batteriesplus and everything seems ok so far..


--
John Bryan

On Tuesday, 17 November 2020 at 21:39:04 UTC, newshound wrote:
On 17/11/2020 20:14, Lobster wrote:
I'm wanting to re-cell my old cordless Makita 8390D drill - at least one of the three power packs, maybe more.... I'm aware that finding decent quality cells to replace the originals is a complete jungle, so I'm wondering if anyone who's done this before can recommend a good supplier of decent kit please?

Part 2 of the question is that the original power packs are NiCd. The OEM charger (a DC1804T) states that it's good for both NiMH and NiCd: so does that mean I can buy NiMH cells and simply swap those out for the existing duff NiCd items? Or will there be electronickery inside the power packs that I would need to contend with, and should therefore stick with NiCd?

Is it worth it? Third party NiMH packs are available for my old Maks at
half the price of OEM. Ebay, in spite of the dodgy name "Floureon" have
been fine for me.

Thanks all very much for all the pointers - definitely very enlightening. I've just been researching cells at CPC/batteriesplus and agree - that would be an expensive route... I've also just opened up my bricked power pack and it looks like it would be a right ball-ache to replace the daisy chain of 13 cells in there too, so I'm binning that idea! Especially as I didn't actually realise you could buy aftermarket power packs....

Two of my power packs are still just about serviceable, and especially so if I replace my third one with a new item, so I reckon that's the way forward for now at least. Ebay throws up loads of them starting at 17 GBP delivered:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...at= 0&_sop=15
There's no way of ascertaining quality so I guess I'll just take a chance? Have to say I've had bad experiences in the past buying mobile phone and laptop batteries that way. Can't see any evidence of 'Floureon' unfortunately!!

On 18/11/2020 13:06, Lobster wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 November 2020 at 21:39:04 UTC, newshound wrote:
On 17/11/2020 20:14, Lobster wrote:
I'm wanting to re-cell my old cordless Makita 8390D drill - at least one of the three power packs, maybe more.... I'm aware that finding decent quality cells to replace the originals is a complete jungle, so I'm wondering if anyone who's done this before can recommend a good supplier of decent kit please?

Part 2 of the question is that the original power packs are NiCd. The OEM charger (a DC1804T) states that it's good for both NiMH and NiCd: so does that mean I can buy NiMH cells and simply swap those out for the existing duff NiCd items? Or will there be electronickery inside the power packs that I would need to contend with, and should therefore stick with NiCd?

Is it worth it? Third party NiMH packs are available for my old Maks at
half the price of OEM. Ebay, in spite of the dodgy name "Floureon" have
been fine for me.

Thanks all very much for all the pointers - definitely very enlightening. I've just been researching cells at CPC/batteriesplus and agree - that would be an expensive route... I've also just opened up my bricked power pack and it looks like it would be a right ball-ache to replace the daisy chain of 13 cells in there too, so I'm binning that idea! Especially as I didn't actually realise you could buy aftermarket power packs....

Two of my power packs are still just about serviceable, and especially so if I replace my third one with a new item, so I reckon that's the way forward for now at least. Ebay throws up loads of them starting at 17 GBP delivered:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...at= 0&_sop=15
There's no way of ascertaining quality so I guess I'll just take a chance? Have to say I've had bad experiences in the past buying mobile phone and laptop batteries that way. Can't see any evidence of 'Floureon' unfortunately!!


The old Makita stuff is just so well built, there's no excuse to replace
them. With the NiMH replacements they just go on and on.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
You can also get adaptors that will let you fit the modern LiIon packs
onto the old drills although you need to be careful to not run the packs
too low since the old drills don't have any smarts to communicate with
the battery management system in the new batts - so you run a higher
risk of bricking a battery.

On my Lidl stuff, I'm fairly certain that protection is in the battery,
not drill?

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
newshound wrote:
The old Makita stuff is just so well built, there's no excuse to replace
them. With the NiMH replacements they just go on and on.

IMHO, though, Li-Ion batteries have a vastly longer service life as well
as better performance. I've yet to have one fail. Unlike Ni-Cad or NiMh.

--
*He's not dead - he's electroencephalographically challenged

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 21:39:00 +0000, newshound wrote:

On 17/11/2020 20:14, Lobster wrote:
Hi all
To those that recognise me - long time no see, it's been a while!!

I'm wanting to re-cell my old cordless Makita 8390D drill - at least one of the three power packs, maybe more.... I'm aware that finding decent quality cells to replace the originals is a complete jungle, so I'm wondering if anyone who's done this before can recommend a good supplier of decent kit please?

Part 2 of the question is that the original power packs are NiCd. The OEM charger (a DC1804T) states that it's good for both NiMH and NiCd: so does that mean I can buy NiMH cells and simply swap those out for the existing duff NiCd items? Or will there be electronickery inside the power packs that I would need to contend with, and should therefore stick with NiCd?

Thanks a lot for any pointers

Is it worth it? Third party NiMH packs are available for my old Maks at
half the price of OEM. Ebay, in spite of the dodgy name "Floureon" have
been fine for me.

I bought a Floureon 3Ah 18V NiMH battery via Amazon in 2016. It's still
going, not an enormous amount of use, and recently it was used for what
seemed to be for ever.
I've just spent some time searching and it looks as if Floureon s pretty
well out of the tools market and replacements for the old NiCads are rare.
My Mak did 4.5 years then the NiCads both failed on consecutive charges! I
suppose that timing chips are as cheap as chips.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 18/11/2020 13:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:
The old Makita stuff is just so well built, there's no excuse to replace
them. With the NiMH replacements they just go on and on.

IMHO, though, Li-Ion batteries have a vastly longer service life as well
as better performance. I've yet to have one fail. Unlike Ni-Cad or NiMh.

I had a Li-Ion "jump-starter" battery fail (after not very much work).
Just refusing to charge any more, not an exciting failure.

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 17 November 2020 at 21:39:04 UTC, newshound wrote:
On 17/11/2020 20:14, Lobster wrote:
I'm wanting to re-cell my old cordless Makita 8390D drill -

You could buy a Li-ion Battery Adapter, and then a charger and genuine
Makita
18volt battery
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Li-ion-Ba...K/392984536462

On 18/11/2020 13:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
You can also get adaptors that will let you fit the modern LiIon packs
onto the old drills although you need to be careful to not run the packs
too low since the old drills don't have any smarts to communicate with
the battery management system in the new batts - so you run a higher
risk of bricking a battery.

On my Lidl stuff, I'm fairly certain that protection is in the battery,
not drill?

There will usually be a BMS in the pack on any respectable battery,
however some also communicate with the device - perhaps allowing the BMS
to instruct the tool to shut off or passing thermal data from the tool
to the batt (this is conjecture - I have not studied what passes on the
additional pinouts on the batteries)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
There will usually be a BMS in the pack on any respectable battery,
however some also communicate with the device - perhaps allowing the BMS
to instruct the tool to shut off or passing thermal data from the tool
to the batt (this is conjecture - I have not studied what passes on the
additional pinouts on the batteries)

That's pretty much how it works in this Aldi pack/drill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d6iggXptNc

The BMS handles the battery monitoring (a bit sad he didn't take that
apart), but the drill has its own cutoff circuit if the battery is over
temperature.

Theo

On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 00:36:26 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

There will usually be a BMS in the pack on any respectable battery,
however some also communicate with the device - perhaps allowing the BMS
to instruct the tool to shut off or passing thermal data from the tool
to the batt (this is conjecture - I have not studied what passes on the
additional pinouts on the batteries)

I believe that to be the case on at least some of the Makita batteries
in that there is an external connection to the thermistor in the
battery that *could* be read by both the charger and / or tool.

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 00:36:26 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

There will usually be a BMS in the pack on any respectable battery,
however some also communicate with the device - perhaps allowing the BMS
to instruct the tool to shut off or passing thermal data from the tool
to the batt (this is conjecture - I have not studied what passes on the
additional pinouts on the batteries)

I believe that to be the case on at least some of the Makita batteries
in that there is an external connection to the thermistor in the
battery that *could* be read by both the charger and / or tool.

Cheers, T i m

The Lidl battery I bought had the BMS board in the battery housing which was
good, but the size of it meant I could not get it in the old NiCd battery
housing so had to make an adaptor
https://imgbox.com/sPWaIlpZ

-

On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 17:02:11 -0000, "Mark" wrote:

snip

I believe that to be the case on at least some of the Makita batteries
in that there is an external connection to the thermistor in the
battery that *could* be read by both the charger and / or tool.


The Lidl battery I bought had the BMS board in the battery housing

That is fairly typical for a Lithium.

which was
good, but the size of it meant I could not get it in the old NiCd battery
housing so had to make an adaptor
https://imgbox.com/sPWaIlpZ

Sorry, what are we looking at there Mark? Is that the Lidl Lithium
battery with the top cover off?

Cheers, T i m