https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQkwPMnCqc

On 17/10/2020 11:37, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQkwPMnCqc

Except that Gogglebox seems to suggest that the problem
existed before lockdown.
What happened to the guy who was a taxi-driver or
chauffeur or whatever. The one who weighed 20+stone
and had a daughter who was almost the same size ?.

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 11:38:01 UTC+1, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQkwPMnCqc
Why "very true"? What does that phrasing mean which would not have been conveyed by "true"?


In everyday speech and informal writing, emphatic pleonasms are often acceptable. For example, a letter ending with Thanks for your help; I
really appreciate it, is entirely forgivable, just as we might legitimately stress that something is absolutely essential, completely unnecessary,
extremely urgent or very true. But in formal scripts, pleonasms generally give the impression of weak writing skills and serve only to fill valuable
space with dross.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 11:38:01 UTC+1, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQkwPMnCqc
Why "very true"? What does that phrasing mean which would not have been conveyed by "true"?


In everyday speech and informal writing, emphatic pleonasms are often acceptable. For example, a letter ending with Thanks for your help; I
really appreciate it, is entirely forgivable, just as we might legitimately stress that something is absolutely essential, completely unnecessary,
extremely urgent or very true. But in formal scripts, pleonasms generally give the impression of weak writing skills and serve only to fill valuable
space with dross.

What happened to the formatting? Grammarly, copy / paste from
somewhere?

The one that really gets me and happens very often (on TV etc) is '3
am in the morning'? WTF do they think a.m. means?

'Very pregnant ...'

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google wrote:

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 11:38:01 UTC+1, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQkwPMnCqc
Why "very true"? What does that phrasing mean which would not have been conveyed by "true"?

In everyday speech and informal writing, emphatic pleonasms are often acceptable. For example, a letter ending with Thanks for your help; I
really appreciate it, is entirely forgivable, just as we might legitimately stress that something is absolutely essential, completely unnecessary,
extremely urgent or very true. But in formal scripts, pleonasms generally give the impression of weak writing skills and serve only to fill valuable
space with dross.

Descend down to the valley below
08:00 am in the morning
I actually had the latter sent to me on a form.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 17/10/2020 13:43, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Saturday, 17 October 2020 11:38:01 UTC+1, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQkwPMnCqc
Why "very true"? What does that phrasing mean which would not have been conveyed by "true"?


In everyday speech and informal writing, emphatic pleonasms are often acceptable. For example, a letter ending with Thanks for your help; I
really appreciate it, is entirely forgivable, just as we might legitimately stress that something is absolutely essential, completely unnecessary,
extremely urgent or very true. But in formal scripts, pleonasms generally give the impression of weak writing skills and serve only to fill valuable
space with dross.

so....very true ....

On 17/10/2020 15:27, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 11:38:01 UTC+1, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQkwPMnCqc
Why "very true"? What does that phrasing mean which would not have been conveyed by "true"?


In everyday speech and informal writing, emphatic pleonasms are often acceptable. For example, a letter ending with Thanks for your help; I
really appreciate it, is entirely forgivable, just as we might legitimately stress that something is absolutely essential, completely unnecessary,
extremely urgent or very true. But in formal scripts, pleonasms generally give the impression of weak writing skills and serve only to fill valuable
space with dross.

What happened to the formatting? Grammarly, copy / paste from
somewhere?

The one that really gets me and happens very often (on TV etc) is '3
am in the morning'? WTF do they think a.m. means?

'Very pregnant ...'

Cheers, T i m


totly fecked

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 15:27:24 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 11:38:01 UTC+1, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQkwPMnCqc
Why "very true"? What does that phrasing mean which would not have been conveyed by "true"?


In everyday speech and informal writing, emphatic pleonasms are often acceptable. For example, a letter ending with Thanks for your help; I
really appreciate it, is entirely forgivable, just as we might legitimately stress that something is absolutely essential, completely unnecessary,
extremely urgent or very true. But in formal scripts, pleonasms generally give the impression of weak writing skills and serve only to fill valuable
space with dross.

What happened to the formatting? Grammarly, copy / paste from
somewhere?

The one that really gets me and happens very often (on TV etc) is '3
am in the morning'? WTF do they think a.m. means?

'Very pregnant ...'

Cheers, T i m

I didn't expect anyone to read my quote, still less to have any curiosity as to where it came from!

https://www.gsbe.co.uk/style-clichss...verbosity.html

At home, we tend to talk about times like 17 o'clock. Am amazed how the 12-hour format remains so prevalent. It is crazy in this online world.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 09:28:12 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

snip

I didn't expect anyone to read my quote,

Ah, well, you might be surprised who might read what you type here,
those who don't treat it like ****ter especially. ;-)

still less to have any curiosity as to where it came from!

For me it was more the formatting that suggested it had either be
post-processed somewhere or copied and pasted (and not typical of you
etc). ;-)

https://www.gsbe.co.uk/style-clichss...verbosity.html

Handy.

At home, we tend to talk about times like 17 o'clock.

Yes, I imagine you might ... ;-)

Am amazed how the 12-hour format remains so prevalent. It is crazy in this online world.

But many people, especially the older people don't live in this online
world, this is just a world they dip into now and again for specific
things?

Cheers, T i m

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 20:48:49 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 09:28:12 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

snip

I didn't expect anyone to read my quote,

Ah, well, you might be surprised who might read what you type here,
those who don't treat it like ****ter especially. ;-)

still less to have any curiosity as to where it came from!

For me it was more the formatting that suggested it had either be
post-processed somewhere or copied and pasted (and not typical of you
etc). ;-)

https://www.gsbe.co.uk/style-clichss...verbosity.html

Handy.

At home, we tend to talk about times like 17 o'clock.

Yes, I imagine you might ... ;-)

Well, it is with a smile.

Am amazed how the 12-hour format remains so prevalent. It is crazy in this online world.

But many people, especially the older people don't live in this online
world, this is just a world they dip into now and again for specific
things?

But good old British Rail starting using 24-hour clock an awfully long time ago. :-) In fact, most travel.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 13:41:21 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

snip

Am amazed how the 12-hour format remains so prevalent. It is crazy in this online world.

But many people, especially the older people don't live in this online
world, this is just a world they dip into now and again for specific
things?

But good old British Rail starting using 24-hour clock an awfully long time ago. :-) In fact, most travel.

Sure, because we are often talking days ahead and you need to get it
right and with no typical rules or context.

If it's 10 am and I say to the Mrs 'you ok to take the dogs out around
two', she's not going to think I mean two the next morning.

If it's 10pm and I say 'I've just had an email saying that item will
be delivered between 8 and 9 tomorrow', given the deliveries *could*
be any time between 8am and 9pm, she would be right to be unsure if
that's what I meant or that it will be delivered between 8am and 9am
(not unreasonable) or 8pm and 9pm (less likely).

If it was 8-9am, I might say 'it's going at be delivered between 8 and
9 tomorrow morning or in the morning'. If it was the 8am and 9pm, I
might say 'anytime tomorrow between 8 and 9', where the 'any time'
would imply a greater range of time than just a 1 hour slot?

If someone says '... I'll meet you there between 8 and 9', that
*would* typically be a 1hr slot and the am / pm thing would be
whatever was appropriate for that event (cafe for breakfast or pub for
a drink etc).

I don't know anyone who uses the 24 hour clock for that sort of thing,
just travel (as you say) and the TV schedules. ;-)

I've often thought of getting a 24 hour analogue wall clock (we have a
'backwards' clock in the bathroom that's relatively easy to deal with)
but I think it would just look too busy and I'm not sure would fulfil
the 'point' of just glancing and reading the time ... or if not the
time, whereabouts in the day you were. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 22:27:51 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
.. ;-)

I've often thought of getting a 24 hour analogue wall clock (we have a
'backwards' clock in the bathroom that's relatively easy to deal with)
but I think it would just look too busy and I'm not sure would fulfil
the 'point' of just glancing and reading the time ... or if not the
time, whereabouts in the day you were. ;-)

There are some quite impressive 24-hr watches but few nice clocks. In my opinion, of course.

One of the reasons I much prefer 24-hour time is when setting something up - boiler, oven, or many of the other devices we have with some form of time setting. Suspect many of us have had the heating coming on 12 hours adrift to what we want. (In time, we'll probably find a lot of these things will pick up time from the internet, one way or another. Via Bluetooth, wifi, NFC, UWB, ...)

There is an objectionable advert going at the moment in which somebody is
said to be Nose blind. For a start, Noses do not have eyes, and I am not
really liking the negative spin on the word blind either.
odour impaired, maybe?
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 17 October 2020 11:38:01 UTC+1, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQkwPMnCqc
Why "very true"? What does that phrasing mean which would not have been
conveyed by "true"?


In everyday speech and informal writing, emphatic pleonasms are often
acceptable. For example, a letter ending with Thanks for your help; I
really appreciate it, is entirely forgivable, just as we might
legitimately stress that something is absolutely essential, completely
unnecessary,
extremely urgent or very true. But in formal scripts, pleonasms generally
give the impression of weak writing skills and serve only to fill valuable
space with dross.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 09:28:12 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google wrote:

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 15:27:24 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 11:38:01 UTC+1, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQkwPMnCqc
Why "very true"? What does that phrasing mean which would not have been conveyed by "true"?


In everyday speech and informal writing, emphatic pleonasms are often acceptable. For example, a letter ending with Thanks for your help; I
really appreciate it, is entirely forgivable, just as we might legitimately stress that something is absolutely essential, completely unnecessary,
extremely urgent or very true. But in formal scripts, pleonasms generally give the impression of weak writing skills and serve only to fill valuable
space with dross.

What happened to the formatting? Grammarly, copy / paste from
somewhere?

The one that really gets me and happens very often (on TV etc) is '3
am in the morning'? WTF do they think a.m. means?

'Very pregnant ...'

Cheers, T i m

I didn't expect anyone to read my quote, still less to have any curiosity as to where it came from!

https://www.gsbe.co.uk/style-clichss...verbosity.html

At home, we tend to talk about times like 17 o'clock. Am amazed how the 12-hour format remains so prevalent. It is crazy in this online world.

Somehow I prefer that - the 25h way of giving times is too long-winded and
too precise: oh-eight-hundred-hours versus eight, with morning etc. if
needed. Most day-to-day times don't matter a damn to a minute or few, that's
one reason that I like analogue clocks - I don't want to know the time of
day, just how long until..., so a quick glance for how long 'til the 'bus
goes is enough.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 15:35:24 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 22:27:51 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
. ;-)

I've often thought of getting a 24 hour analogue wall clock (we have a
'backwards' clock in the bathroom that's relatively easy to deal with)
but I think it would just look too busy and I'm not sure would fulfil
the 'point' of just glancing and reading the time ... or if not the
time, whereabouts in the day you were. ;-)

There are some quite impressive 24-hr watches but few nice clocks.

Again, do you think you can (would be able to) 'glance' at a 24hr
clock / watch and get the same instant feeling of the time as you
would a 12hr version, especially given most 24 hour things are digital
in the first place so you don't need to 'compute' the time?

In my opinion, of course.

Of course. I'd be interested to get a 24hr wall clock and just see how
'natural' it becomes.

One of the reasons I much prefer 24-hour time is when setting something up - boiler, oven, or many of the other devices we have with some form of time setting.

Ah yes, it makes perfect sense for those because as you say, you 'set
them up', not 'glance at' and get a feeling for the time (and what
percentage of the day you have left etc). Do you set a digital timer
from your analogue watch or the digital time on your phone or other
digital clock? ;-)

Suspect many of us have had the heating coming on 12 hours adrift to what we want.

Oh indeed ... or the day - date turning over on a watch at lunchtime.
;-)

(In time, we'll probably find a lot of these things will pick up time from the internet, one way or another. Via Bluetooth, wifi, NFC, UWB, ...)

Funnily the battery went flat in our radio controlled kitchen clock
the other day and when I put a new battery in it wound the hands round
super fast till they were all parked at 12.00 ... and then had a think
about it and then moved on at fast rate to the right time.

A much older radio clock we have here requires you to wind it onto
12.00 yourself and then it sorts itself from there.

That reminds me, I bought a little radio clock receiver kit (just the
receiver bit) that you can interface with an Arduino or similar that I
need to assemble at some time ... I thought it might be interested to
have something that shows when the signal was actually being
transmitted (and received of course). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sunday, 18 October 2020 09:49:26 UTC+1, PeterC wrote:


Somehow I prefer that - the 25h way of giving times is too long-winded and
too precise: oh-eight-hundred-hours versus eight, with morning etc. if
needed. Most day-to-day times don't matter a damn to a minute or few, that's
one reason that I like analogue clocks - I don't want to know the time of
day, just how long until..., so a quick glance for how long 'til the 'bus
goes is enough.

It just started one day, years ago, I think one of us started to say eighteen-hundred - and just diverted to saying 18 o'clock because we got bored with the overly pedantic feeling of that halfway through saying it.

I can't see any reason NOT to say "o'clock". (Except the literal failure to display 13 to 24 on a physical 12-hour clock!)