New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0

harry wrote:

New superconductor found, works at room temperature.

"seems to conduct electricity"

"it will not have any immediate practical applications"

On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0


So this isn't actually a breakthrough.

On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0

However, it needs a pressure of *40,000,000psi* to work.

https://phys.org/news/2020-10-room-t...-material.html

A feat at present only possible between carefully shaped diamond anvils
and a very large hydraulic press. It is a curiosity - nothing more.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0


a. most rooms - and transmission lines - are a damn site warmer than
287.7 K (c.15C) and

b. that temp. was only achieved with a pressure of 267 gigapascals.

I shall stick to my practice of following no more than one of your links
per term.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

harry Wrote in message:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0


At those pressures?
--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0


Not there yet, but €œIf I have seen further, it is by standing on the
shoulders of giants.€� This is definitely a shoulder.

On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found,

thought buses were one man operated these days ....

On 17/10/2020 11:01, Robin wrote:
On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0


a.Â*Â*Â* most rooms - and transmission lines - are a damn site warmer than
287.7 K (c.15C) and

b.Â*Â*Â* that temp. was only achieved with a pressure of 267 gigapascals.

I shall stick to my practice of following no more than one of your links
per term.

And in terms of transmission line practicalities and costs it is almost
completely irrelevant, anyway.


--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

On 17/10/2020 11:23, GB wrote:
On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0


Not there yet, but €œIf I have seen further, it is by standing on the
shoulders of giants.€� This is definitely a shoulder.

No it isn't. It's a toenail at best.

The ONLY place we have found superconductors are deal makers is in
generating massive magnetic fields were we simply cannot cram enough
current into a room temperature copper coil without melting it. And a
bigger coil leads to a larger magnetic field.

It is supremely irrelevant to HVDC links where losses can be kept down
at sane cost by using a larger conductor or a pair of them.

That's the difference between being an armchair wannabe scientist, and a
retired engineer.

The instant question an engineer asks is 'whether it will do more at
lower cost and higher reliability?'

superconductors would make no difference to performance really and costs
would probably rise.


--
Theres a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 17/10/2020 13:00, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 12:18:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/10/2020 11:23, GB wrote:
[quoted text muted]
No it isn't. It's a toenail at best.

The ONLY place we have found superconductors are deal makers is in
generating massive magnetic fields were we simply cannot cram enough
current into a room temperature copper coil without melting it. And a
bigger coil leads to a larger magnetic field.

Maglev trains would be a practical application too.

Not 'too'. That is fully covered by 'massive magnetic fields'.

But again the small gains in friction of getting rid of steel wheels on
steel rails simply isn't worth that much.

High conductivity to total conductivity is not a huge step.
semiconductors have meant far more to the world than superconductors

--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 17/10/2020 12:17, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 02:35:38 -0700, harry wrote:

New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0

Files alongside nuclear fusion articles ...

Possibly.

But it is interesting to compare it with the history of nuclear power.
It took only 10 years from its discovery by Rutherford to the first
nuclear pile in 1942, even though, according to the Wiki
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power#Origins) in 1932
Rutherford, Bohr, and Einstein "believed harnessing the power of the
atom for practical purposes anytime in the near future was unlikely." No
doubt the war and development of an atomic bomb was a huge influence,
but it showed how even the most eminent scientists of the time were way
out when it came to predicting the future.

I suppose the real question is whether or not a practical RT
superconducting power transmission line would be cheaper than the
current ones. Is it possible to compare the differences in cost of
manufacture, use, maintenance, etc?

--

Jeff

On 17/10/2020 13:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
I suppose the real question is whether or not a practical RT
superconducting power transmission line would be cheaper than the
current ones. Is it possible to compare the differences in cost of
manufacture, use, maintenance, etc?

The copper cost of an undersea HVDC cable is the smallest part. All the
cost is in laying it, in the armouring and the massive insulations
needed and in the layers that (seriously) deter shark attack and the like.


And operated at the sorts of levels the cables are, the actual cable
losses are probably well below 5% - there are more losses in the
inverters and rectifier circuits. So a superconductor cable represents
very very little gain at all.

Obviously if it was as cheap and easy to manufacture as copper everyone
would use it routinely, but it wouldn't affect the decision to lay the
cable or not.

My issue was only with the stupidity of the statement that such a
material would make the implementation of a global supergrid *inevitable*.

It's as stupid as the 'renewable energy is free' statement, So too is
coal gas, uranium,... God doesn't charge for any of them. Always, what
counts is the lifetime cost of the total solution.

--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On 17/10/2020 12:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/10/2020 11:23, GB wrote:
On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0


Not there yet, but €œIf I have seen further, it is by standing on the
shoulders of giants.€� This is definitely a shoulder.

No it isn't. It's a toenail at best.

The ONLY place we have found superconductors are dealÂ* makers is in
generating massive magnetic fields were we simply cannot cram enough
current into a room temperature copper coil without melting it. And a
bigger coil leads to a larger magnetic field.

It is supremely irrelevant to HVDC links where losses can be kept down
at sane cost by using a larger conductor or a pair of them.

That's the difference between being an armchair wannabe scientist, and a
retired engineer.

The instant question an engineer asks is 'whether it will do more at
lower cost and higher reliability?'

superconductors would make no difference to performance really and costs
would probably rise.



Do you dismiss similarly superconducting magnetic energy storage?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 17/10/2020 12:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That's the difference between being an armchair wannabe scientist, and a
retired engineer.

I used to think that my physics Masters qualified me as a scientist. I'm
so, so grateful to you for putting me right.

On 17/10/2020 15:36, Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Oct 2020 at 15:22:20 BST, GB wrote:

On 17/10/2020 12:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That's the difference between being an armchair wannabe scientist, and a
retired engineer.

I used to think that my physics Masters qualified me as a scientist. I'm
so, so grateful to you for putting me right.

Well it might qualify you as a scientist. But does it qualify you to do the
engineering costings for a project?



No. But, it's all hot air at the moment, anyway.

On 17/10/2020 14:48, Robin wrote:
On 17/10/2020 12:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/10/2020 11:23, GB wrote:
On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0


Not there yet, but €œIf I have seen further, it is by standing on the
shoulders of giants.€� This is definitely a shoulder.

No it isn't. It's a toenail at best.

The ONLY place we have found superconductors are dealÂ* makers is in
generating massive magnetic fields were we simply cannot cram enough
current into a room temperature copper coil without melting it. And a
bigger coil leads to a larger magnetic field.

It is supremely irrelevant to HVDC links where losses can be kept down
at sane cost by using a larger conductor or a pair of them.

That's the difference between being an armchair wannabe scientist, and
a retired engineer.

The instant question an engineer asks is 'whether it will do more at
lower cost and higher reliability?'

superconductors would make no difference to performance really and
costs would probably rise.



Do you dismiss similarly superconducting magnetic energy storage?

No, but that to be meaningful requires a lot of other constraints to be
satisfied. Like fuel cells, in theory its great until you actually try
and build one, and then you quickly run into severe performance limitations,


--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On 17/10/2020 15:22, GB wrote:
On 17/10/2020 12:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That's the difference between being an armchair wannabe scientist, and
a retired engineer.

I used to think that my physics Masters qualified me as a scientist. I'm
so, so grateful to you for putting me right.

Well it just goes to show, that scientists cant do engineering, because
they are all theory, no practice, and someone else's money...


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 17/10/2020 11:06, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 02:35:38 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0

A step in the right direction, certainly, but "The superconductor has
one serious limitation, however: it survives only under extremely high
pressures, approaching those at the centre of Earth, meaning that it
will not have any immediate practical applications."

Run a power cable through the centre of the earth so we can buy solar
power from Australia when it is dark here?

On 17/10/2020 16:46, Andrew wrote:
On 17/10/2020 11:06, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 02:35:38 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0

A step in the right direction, certainly, but "The superconductor has
one serious limitation, however: it survives only under extremely high
pressures, approaching those at the centre of Earth, meaning that it
will not have any immediate practical applications."

Run a power cable through the centre of the earth so we can buy solar
power from Australia when it is dark here?

angle grinder and an SDS should be all you need....

--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On 17/10/2020 16:52, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 12:18:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 17/10/2020 11:23, GB wrote:
On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0


Not there yet, but €œIf I have seen further, it is by standing on the
shoulders of giants.€� This is definitely a shoulder.

No it isn't. It's a toenail at best.

The ONLY place we have found superconductors are deal makers is in
generating massive magnetic fields were we simply cannot cram enough
current into a room temperature copper coil without melting it. And a
bigger coil leads to a larger magnetic field.

Not my understanding.

http://mriquestions.com/superconductive-design.html


Superconductors will only support a magnetic
field up to a certain strength, admittedly fairly high. But above
that, they no longer stay superconducting, and to achieve the highest
magnetic fields, air-cored copper is used, copper piping with water
cooling probably. It's been getting on for fifty years since I was
peripherally involved with a lab-scale superconducting magnet, so
things may have changed by now, but at the time, that was the case. I
forget which lab was using them, possibly the Clarendon, but someone
had bought massive DC dynamos from London Underground that were being
replaced to drive their high-intensity air-cored magnet.



--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/10/2020 16:46, Andrew wrote:
On 17/10/2020 11:06, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 02:35:38 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0

A step in the right direction, certainly, but "The superconductor has
one serious limitation, however: it survives only under extremely high
pressures, approaching those at the centre of Earth, meaning that it
will not have any immediate practical applications."

Run a power cable through the centre of the earth so we can buy solar
power from Australia when it is dark here?

angle grinder and an SDS should be all you need....

do they make bits that long?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 17/10/2020 17:36, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/10/2020 16:46, Andrew wrote:
On 17/10/2020 11:06, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 02:35:38 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0

A step in the right direction, certainly, but "The superconductor has
one serious limitation, however: it survives only under extremely high
pressures, approaching those at the centre of Earth, meaning that it
will not have any immediate practical applications."

Run a power cable through the centre of the earth so we can buy solar
power from Australia when it is dark here?

angle grinder and an SDS should be all you need....

do they make bits that long?

You get them from Tool satan along with pixie dust and canned unicorn fart

--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 14:37:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/10/2020 13:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
I suppose the real question is whether or not a practical RT
superconducting power transmission line would be cheaper than the
current ones. Is it possible to compare the differences in cost of
manufacture, use, maintenance, etc?

The copper cost of an undersea HVDC cable is the smallest part. All the
cost is in laying it, in the armouring and the massive insulations
needed and in the layers that (seriously) deter shark attack and the
like.


And operated at the sorts of levels the cables are, the actual cable
losses are probably well below 5% - there are more losses in the
inverters and rectifier circuits. So a superconductor cable represents
very very little gain at all.

Obviously if it was as cheap and easy to manufacture as copper everyone
would use it routinely, but it wouldn't affect the decision to lay the
cable or not.

My issue was only with the stupidity of the statement that such a
material would make the implementation of a global supergrid
*inevitable*.

It's as stupid as the 'renewable energy is free' statement, So too is
coal gas, uranium,... God doesn't charge for any of them. Always, what
counts is the lifetime cost of the total solution.

Lossless distribution makes an awful lot of substations redundant, TurNiP.

On 17/10/2020 19:41, Brian Reay wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 14:37:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/10/2020 13:49, Jeff Layman wrote:
I suppose the real question is whether or not a practical RT
superconducting power transmission line would be cheaper than the
current ones. Is it possible to compare the differences in cost of
manufacture, use, maintenance, etc?

The copper cost of an undersea HVDC cable is the smallest part. All the
cost is in laying it, in the armouring and the massive insulations
needed and in the layers that (seriously) deter shark attack and the
like.


And operated at the sorts of levels the cables are, the actual cable
losses are probably well below 5% - there are more losses in the
inverters and rectifier circuits. So a superconductor cable represents
very very little gain at all.

Obviously if it was as cheap and easy to manufacture as copper everyone
would use it routinely, but it wouldn't affect the decision to lay the
cable or not.

My issue was only with the stupidity of the statement that such a
material would make the implementation of a global supergrid
*inevitable*.

It's as stupid as the 'renewable energy is free' statement, So too is
coal gas, uranium,... God doesn't charge for any of them. Always, what
counts is the lifetime cost of the total solution.

Lossless distribution makes an awful lot of substations redundant, TurNiP.

No, it doesn't. You simply do not understand why they are there. Or the
limitations of superconduction.


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

NO since the pressures you need to make it work, over 5000 atmospheres is
almost as impossible to get as absolute zero. I believe its metallic
Hydrogen is it not?
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"harry" wrote in message
...
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0

No it was theorised that Metallic hydrogen, which occurs at huge pressures
should have zero resistance. It just means that in a lab somebody managed to
do that for long enough to be pretty sure they were right.
The problem with the room temperature is that there is randomness in the
internal structure, we see as resistance. The two ways to reduce random
fluctuations is by getting to absolute zero or great pressures, effectively
squeezing out the ability for the atoms to move at all. Might be handy for a
wire running through thats core I guess, but there is a small snag there!

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Richard" wrote in message
...
On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0


So this isn't actually a breakthrough.

On 18/10/2020 08:45, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
No it was theorised that Metallic hydrogen, which occurs at huge pressures
should have zero resistance. It just means that in a lab somebody managed to
do that for long enough to be pretty sure they were right.

Metallic hydrogen is still in the realms of computational simulation
with only very slim experimental evidence as yet. It also requires a
diamond anvil and working pressures above 3M bar.

The problem with the room temperature is that there is randomness in the
internal structure, we see as resistance. The two ways to reduce random
fluctuations is by getting to absolute zero or great pressures, effectively
squeezing out the ability for the atoms to move at all. Might be handy for a
wire running through thats core I guess, but there is a small snag there!

They think that experimentalists may have seen the analogous phase to
graphite if the latest papers are to be believed:

https://cen.acs.org/physical-chemist...imental/98/i35


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 17/10/2020 14:48, Robin wrote:

Do you dismiss similarly superconducting magnetic energy storage?


Until somebody comes up with some numbers - yes. Do you have some I
don't know about?

Andy

On 18/10/2020 21:44, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 17/10/2020 14:48, Robin wrote:

Do you dismiss similarly superconducting magnetic energy storage?


Until somebody comes up with some numbers - yes. Do you have some I
don't know about?



Well I patently don't have crucial ones such as the cost of the
superconductor and its critical current since they are unknowable until
someone comes up with a practicable new SC.

OTOH I don't write off a technology just because with current options it
is only economic for niche applications.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 04:47:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Lossless distribution makes an awful lot of substations redundant,

TurNiP.

No, it doesn't. You simply do not understand why they are there.

The AC/DC convertors may need to be there but if you have a truely
lossless distribution you don't need all that stepping up to 500 kV
and back down to avoid the distribution cable I^2R losses. You can
distribute at the final 415 V three phase over something very small,
no losses, no heating... All the supercondutor has to do is have
enough physical space to carry enough electrons (aka current) to
produce the required fields in, say, a motor. Electrons are very,
very small. B-)

What I'm struggling with is the division by zero in I = V/R.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 18/10/2020 22:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:

What I'm struggling with is the division by zero in I = V/R.
Basically, Ohm's Law does not apply to superconductors. I didn't realise
that it isn't really a law, and there are times when it doesn't apply:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law#Scope

Googling "Ohm's Law" and "Superconductor" will result in many hits
confirming it doesn't apply.

--

Jeff

On 18/10/2020 22:09, Robin wrote:
On 18/10/2020 21:44, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 17/10/2020 14:48, Robin wrote:

Do you dismiss similarly superconducting magnetic energy storage?


Until somebody comes up with some numbers - yes. Do you have some I
don't know about?



Well I patently don't have crucial ones such as the cost of the
superconductor and its critical current since they are unknowable until
someone comes up with a practicable new SC.

OTOH I don't write off a technology just because with current options it
is only economic for niche applications.

OTOH I do write off a technology when its clear it *never will* be
economic for anything *but* niche applications...


....as it now seems that wind and solar power are...

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/10/...ewable-energy/

--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 18/10/2020 22:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 04:47:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Lossless distribution makes an awful lot of substations redundant,

TurNiP.

No, it doesn't. You simply do not understand why they are there.

The AC/DC convertors may need to be there but if you have a truely
lossless distribution you don't need all that stepping up to 500 kV
and back down to avoid the distribution cable I^2R losses. You can
distribute at the final 415 V three phase over something very small,
no losses, no heating... All the supercondutor has to do is have
enough physical space to carry enough electrons (aka current) to
produce the required fields in, say, a motor. Electrons are very,
very small. B-)

And that is in the end the limiting factor. You cannot send infinite
current down a superconductor

And you need to keep it cool. So instead of staged transformers you have
staged liquid hydrogen....

Current world record is 20kA over 20 meters. At 415V that is 8.3MW.
Enough for a couple of wind turbines maybe.

https://home.cern/news/news/engineer...superconductor

What I'm struggling with is the division by zero in I = V/R.

V is zero of course.


--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 19/10/2020 08:13, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 18/10/2020 22:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:

What I'm struggling with is the division by zero in I = V/R.
Basically, Ohm's Law does not apply to superconductors. I didn't realise
that it isn't really a law, and there are times when it doesn't apply:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law#Scope

Googling "Ohm's Law" and "Superconductor" will result in many hits
confirming it doesn't apply.

ohms law is an approximately correct model in metallic conductors at DC only

--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 19/10/2020 10:33, Tim Streater wrote:
On 19 Oct 2020 at 09:58:01 BST, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 18/10/2020 22:09, Robin wrote:
On 18/10/2020 21:44, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 17/10/2020 14:48, Robin wrote:

Do you dismiss similarly superconducting magnetic energy storage?


Until somebody comes up with some numbers - yes. Do you have some I
don't know about?

Well I patently don't have crucial ones such as the cost of the
superconductor and its critical current since they are unknowable until
someone comes up with a practicable new SC.

OTOH I don't write off a technology just because with current options it
is only economic for niche applications.

OTOH I do write off a technology when its clear it *never will* be
economic for anything *but* niche applications...

...as it now seems that wind and solar power are...

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/10/...ewable-energy/

Interesting that it essentially confirms what I was saying about batteries for
the grid a few days ago.

Really what we are seeing is the unbridgeable gap between qualitative
hand-wavey magic-thinking 'it could work' and quantitative 'but not for
very long'

Renewable energy is simply not sustainable.

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

ۥ Confucius

On 19/10/2020 14:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Renewable energy is simply not sustainable.

Hydro electric power _is_ sustainable. You can keep catching the rain
and making power from it indefinitely.

What it _isn't_ is a solution for all our power needs - there just isn't
enough rain falling in enough mountain valleys.

AIUI wind/hydro works quite well in New Zealand, where they have lots of
wind and rain in a hilly country with low population density.

There is of course the Banqiao problem. Orders of magnitude more deaths
than have ever ben caused by nuclear power.

Andy

On 19/10/2020 21:34, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 19/10/2020 14:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Renewable energy is simply not sustainable.

Hydro electric power _is_ sustainable. You can keep catching the rain
and making power from it indefinitely.

Hydro is not classed as 'renewable' for subsidies, but strangely it is
when totting up the totals for how much is on the grid...along with
woodburners...


What it _isn't_ is a solution for all our power needs - there just isn't
enough rain falling in enough mountain valleys.

AIUI wind/hydro works quite well in New Zealand, where they have lots of
wind and rain in a hilly country with low population density.

yes, its the one country in te wprld where windmills make a little sense.

--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 21:34:44 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 19/10/2020 14:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Renewable energy is simply not sustainable.
Hydro electric power _is_ sustainable. You can keep catching the rain
and making power from it indefinitely.

What it _isn't_ is a solution for all our power needs - there just isn't
enough rain falling in enough mountain valleys.

AIUI wind/hydro works quite well in New Zealand, where they have lots of
wind and rain in a hilly country with low population density.

There is of course the Banqiao problem. Orders of magnitude more deaths
than have ever ben caused by nuclear power.

Andy

In NZ, 54% of the electricity is hydroelectric, 20% gas, 10%
geothermal, only 7% is wind. But total usage is low. Total capacity is
only about 10GW; average output 5GW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...in_New_Zealand

Norway is 95% hydroelectric, with a capacity of 31GW in 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr..._consum ption

In Iceland, it's about 70% hydroelectric, 30% hydrothermal. The
aluminium industry uses 71% of electricity production.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...and#Production

All of which is fine if your electricity consumption isn't high and
you have the topography and geology to support it. Not may places
have, so it's not widely applicable.


"More than 70,000 MW of hydropower have already been developed in Canada.

Approximately 475 hydroelectric generating plants across the country
produce an average of 355 terawatt-hours per year."

And Three Gorges is 22.5GW. It takes quite a few nukes
to match something like that.

Itaipu Dam in Brazil is 14GW.

These are pretty good sources. It would take a fair number
of nukes to match them.

And some (not all) hydroelectric projects last a while.
The tiny station downtown (generates less than a megawatt),
it probably lasted a hundred years before it was closed.
The building is still there, but the water flow is reduced.
They're in no rush to take it apart, because that would
cost money :-)

The local watershed, has around 35 stations, piddly things
not worth counting. They dam everything around here. That's
how the count gets to 475.

At the old river we used to go tubing in, the head end
of the river is a generating station. With a rather
substantial whirlpool up near the exit gate on the
station. If you stick your truck tube in the water
there, you'll spin around forever. There's a sign there
to tell people to not do that, but no complex fences or
gates to keep you out. And during Tubing Festival, the
generating station output is adjusted to make tubing fun.
(You don't want to be running a rapids when drunk, so the
water rate is turned down to a laminar flow.) All sorts of
people blasted out of their minds, riding down a river on
inner tubes. Hippy heaven. Wearing apparel is
"swim trunks and wine skin".

Having rivers all over the place, is great.

Paul

On 17/10/2020 10:42:28, Richard wrote:
On 17/10/2020 10:35, harry wrote:
New superconductor found, works at room temperature.
Most important discovery of the decade?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02895-0


So this isn't actually a breakthrough.

It is possibly a similar breakthrough to a field-effect transistor that
was proposed in 1925.

Or wouldn't you consider that a pretty useless device in 1925 could ever
result in something like the iPhone?

Sorry, I would say room temperature superconductivity is a breakthrough.
There may well be other similar materials that exhibit the same effect
at pressures we may be more used to.