In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use it
I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath extractor
outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead guard. This
takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be expected BUT THE
NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's probably going to annoy
my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some kind
of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is these
days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

TW

On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:
In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use it
I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath extractor
outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead guard. This
takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be expected BUT THE
NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's probably going to annoy
my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some kind
of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is these
days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

Can you use an extension for the vacuum hoses to take the machines some
way away from the saw table? Maybe also use a bit of rockwool insulation
or expanded polystyrene around them to cut down the noise (but not the
air needed to cool their motors!)?

--

Jeff

On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:
In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use it
I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath extractor
outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead guard. This
takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be expected BUT THE
NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's probably going to annoy
my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some kind
of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is these
days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

TW

Doesn't the noise of the saw drown out the noise of the Henry?

Plenty of Youtube videos on DIY cyclone catchment containers (run off an
existing vacuum cleaner). With extra tubes to the cyclone and then
another to the vacuum cleaner then the vacuum cleaner could be placed
further away and/or enclosed some sound deadening box. Further as the
vacuum cleaner is not collecting the majority of the dust it may run a
bit quieter with a near empty bag.

example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87kxif63puc

Probably watch a few similar videos as some ideas are better than others.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Maybe you need to also wear some noise cancelling headphones too.
Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:
In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use it
I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath extractor
outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead guard. This
takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be expected BUT THE
NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's probably going to annoy
my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some kind
of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is these
days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

Can you use an extension for the vacuum hoses to take the machines some
way away from the saw table? Maybe also use a bit of rockwool insulation
or expanded polystyrene around them to cut down the noise (but not the air
needed to cool their motors!)?

--

Jeff

On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:
In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use it
I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath extractor
outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead guard. This
takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be expected BUT THE
NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's probably going to annoy
my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some kind
of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is these
days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

TW
Search for Dust Commander, mount it on a steel drum (not a plastic one;
they collapse) and put whatever device sucks somewhere else

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 10:16:38 UTC+1, wrote:
On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:
In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use it
I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath extractor
outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead guard. This
takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be expected BUT THE
NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's probably going to annoy
my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some kind
of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is these
days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

TW
Search for Dust Commander, mount it on a steel drum (not a plastic one;
they collapse) and put whatever device sucks somewhere else

Very interesting.

I note they offer it ready fitted to a drum - with plastic and steel options. The plastic comes with an anti-crush valve. I didn't see them selling that separately - unfortunately.

On 17/10/2020 08:21, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:
In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use it
I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath extractor
outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead guard. This
takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be expected BUT THE
NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's probably going to annoy
my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some kind
of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is these
days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

Can you use an extension for the vacuum hoses to take the machines some
way away from the saw table? Maybe also use a bit of rockwool insulation
or expanded polystyrene around them to cut down the noise (but not the
air needed to cool their motors!)?


I am wondering if a muffler on the hoover exhaust would do any good.

TW

On 17/10/2020 10:32, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Saturday, 17 October 2020 10:16:38 UTC+1, wrote:
On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:
In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use it
I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath extractor
outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead guard. This
takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be expected BUT THE
NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's probably going to annoy
my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some kind
of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is these
days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

TW
Search for Dust Commander, mount it on a steel drum (not a plastic one;
they collapse) and put whatever device sucks somewhere else

Very interesting.

I note they offer it ready fitted to a drum - with plastic and steel options. The plastic comes with an anti-crush valve. I didn't see them selling that separately - unfortunately.

I bought the plastic one some years ago but have recently replaced it
with a steel drum from an eBay seller. The plastic one always partially
collapsed whereas the steel one just works. Also, the steel drum has a
larger base so is more stable.

In article ,
TimW wrote:
On 17/10/2020 08:21, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:
In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use
it I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath
extractor outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead
guard. This takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be
expected BUT THE NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's
probably going to annoy my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some
kind of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is
these days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

Can you use an extension for the vacuum hoses to take the machines
some way away from the saw table? Maybe also use a bit of rockwool
insulation or expanded polystyrene around them to cut down the noise
(but not the air needed to cool their motors!)?


I am wondering if a muffler on the hoover exhaust would do any good.

I'd say the noise comes from the high revving motor and fan. To reduce
that, you'd need a slower running motor and larger fan.

--
*According to my calculations, the problem doesn't exist.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:

In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use it
I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath extractor
outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead guard. This
takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be expected BUT THE
NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's probably going to annoy
my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some kind
of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is these
days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

There are two basic options for dust collection, low volume high
pressure (LVHP) small hose, and high volume low pressure (HVLP) large
hose. Vacuum cleaners and dedicated small dust collectors are usually
LVHP. Big bag style chip collectors are HVLP.

Then dust filtration is whole other subject.

Both have LVHP and HLVP a place - but much depends on the type of dust
you are collecting, and the source.

For *effective* collection from a saw, the air speed needs to be faster
than the blade tip speed, and the volume high enough to capture the dust
at the point of creation - so air moving at 150mph+ is ideal since you
need to capture the dust coming off the blade tips at that speed. (a
LVHP system will capture the the dust that hits a baffle of some sort
and falls into the saw body, but won't catch the stuff thrown in your
direction by the top of the blade. Blade guard collection helps in that
it physically intercepts some of the blade tip dust.

Things like planers and thicknessers especially need HVLP just to cope
with the rate and volume of chip creation. Table saws can go either way,
but HVLP is usually better for cabinet saws (although contractor
portable saws are often only ported for small hoses).

So hand held tools like sanders etc producing fine dust, are normally
optimised for LVHP, and usually benefit from good fine dust filtration
since the dust is not being ejected at speed, and the air paths
convoluted, and for ease of use, small diameter hoses work ok, and the
high pressure overcomes the flow resistance.


Bagged chip collectors [1] are typically large dirty fan type designs
powered by quiet induction motors. In use the air flow noise is probably
comparable to the motor noise, and they are typically quieter than the
tool itself. Filtration performance on them depends on the construction
of the bags. The basic cloth ones given good airflow but only large
particle filtration, felted top bags, and plastic dust bags give finer
collection (at some expense of airflow), and pleated cartridge filter
style top bags can do HEPA style filtration but need lots of power to
maintain air flow.

Of the "bin" style vacuum collectors - some are very much noisier than
others (some of the early generations of wet'n'dry vacs were
astonishingly loud!). As you go up market they get quieter. Note there
is a big jump in price the moment you move to M class [2] filtration
(which is usually the legal minimum for on site use in businesses).

So in short, a chip collector will be a much quieter option, and
probably work better on a table saw if it has a decent port size
(ideally 4").


[1]

https://www.axminstertools.com/axmin...tractor-105184

[2]

L Class = 1.0% Dusts with maximum allowable concentrations 1 mg/cubic
meter

M Class 0.1% Dusts with maximum allowable concentrations = 0.1 mg/
cubic meter

H Class 0.005% Dusts with maximum allowable concentrations 0.1
mg/cubic meter

L class will normally do for table saws and softwoods, M class for table
saws and hardwoods and MDF etc, plus also sanding.

(H is only for specialist applications like machining asbestos, or
collecting soot).



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/10/2020 12:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
TimW wrote:
On 17/10/2020 08:21, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:
In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use
it I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath
extractor outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead
guard. This takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be
expected BUT THE NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's
probably going to annoy my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some
kind of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is
these days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

Can you use an extension for the vacuum hoses to take the machines
some way away from the saw table? Maybe also use a bit of rockwool
insulation or expanded polystyrene around them to cut down the noise
(but not the air needed to cool their motors!)?


I am wondering if a muffler on the hoover exhaust would do any good.

I'd say the noise comes from the high revving motor and fan. To reduce
that, you'd need a slower running motor and larger fan.

+1, wet and dry vacs are pretty cheap and nasty. Henrys, on the other
hand, are normally remarkably quiet IMHO. Perhaps you need a new Henry.
You could connect this to a home-made cyclone collector, plenty of
examples on YouTube.

On 19/10/2020 14:38, newshound wrote:
On 17/10/2020 12:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* TimW wrote:
On 17/10/2020 08:21, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:
In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use
it I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath
extractor outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead
guard. This takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be
expected BUT THE NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's
probably going to annoy my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some
kind of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is
these days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

Can you use an extension for the vacuum hoses to take the machines
some way away from the saw table? Maybe also use a bit of rockwool
insulation or expanded polystyrene around them to cut down the noise
(but not the air needed to cool their motors!)?


I am wondering if a muffler on the hoover exhaust would do any good.

I'd say the noise comes from the high revving motor and fan. To reduce
that, you'd need a slower running motor and larger fan.

+1, wet and dry vacs are pretty cheap and nasty. Henrys, on the other
hand, are normally remarkably quiet IMHO. Perhaps you need a new Henry.
You could connect this to a home-made cyclone collector, plenty of
examples on YouTube.

Or for that matter Numatic make a number of Henry like vacuums designed
for the purpose:

https://numatic.co.uk/industry/construction/

(although at a price I expect!)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, 19 October 2020 15:58:29 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/10/2020 14:38, newshound wrote:
On 17/10/2020 12:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* TimW wrote:
On 17/10/2020 08:21, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:
In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use
it I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath
extractor outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead
guard. This takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be
expected BUT THE NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's
probably going to annoy my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some
kind of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is
these days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

Can you use an extension for the vacuum hoses to take the machines
some way away from the saw table? Maybe also use a bit of rockwool
insulation or expanded polystyrene around them to cut down the noise
(but not the air needed to cool their motors!)?


I am wondering if a muffler on the hoover exhaust would do any good.

I'd say the noise comes from the high revving motor and fan. To reduce
that, you'd need a slower running motor and larger fan.

+1, wet and dry vacs are pretty cheap and nasty. Henrys, on the other
hand, are normally remarkably quiet IMHO. Perhaps you need a new Henry.
You could connect this to a home-made cyclone collector, plenty of
examples on YouTube.

Or for that matter Numatic make a number of Henry like vacuums designed
for the purpose:

https://numatic.co.uk/industry/construction/

(although at a price I expect!)

I have a Nilfisk Alto Aero 26-21 which copes well with brick dust
plaster dust and general rubble.

John

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 11:53:57 -0700, jrwalliker wrote:

I have a Nilfisk Alto Aero 26-21 which copes well with brick dust
plaster dust and general rubble.

When we bought our first house, we hired a Nilfisk and vacummed out the
subfloor with it. And there was a lot of mess down there.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 19/10/2020 11:24, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/10/2020 00:45, TimW wrote:

In my shed I have a basic, noisy 1500w Screwfix table saw. When I use
it I connect a 1000w wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the underneath
extractor outlet and an old 1000W henry type hoover to the overhead
guard. This takes care of the sawdust probably as well as can be
expected BUT THE NOISE IS DEAFENING, the lights flicker and it's
probably going to annoy my neighbours soon.

Is there some better way of extracting dust from power tools? Some
kind of cyclone thing? or a quieter single dust extractor. Trouble is
these days you just have to buy the stuff off of a catalogue.

There are two basic options for dust collection, low volume high
pressure (LVHP) small hose, and high volume low pressure (HVLP) large
hose. Vacuum cleaners and dedicated small dust collectors are usually
LVHP. Big bag style chip collectors are HVLP.

Then dust filtration is whole other subject.

Both have LVHP and HLVP a place - but much depends on the type of dust
you are collecting, and the source.

For *effective* collection from a saw, the air speed needs to be faster
than the blade tip speed, and the volume high enough to capture the dust
at the point of creation - so air moving at 150mph+ is ideal since you
need to capture the dust coming off the blade tips at that speed. (a
LVHP system will capture the the dust that hits a baffle of some sort
and falls into the saw body, but won't catch the stuff thrown in your
direction by the top of the blade. Blade guard collection helps in that
it physically intercepts some of the blade tip dust.

Things like planers and thicknessers especially need HVLP just to cope
with the rate and volume of chip creation. Table saws can go either way,
but HVLP is usually better for cabinet saws (although contractor
portable saws are often only ported for small hoses).

So hand held tools like sanders etc producing fine dust, are normally
optimised for LVHP, and usually benefit from good fine dust filtration
since the dust is not being ejected at speed, and the air paths
convoluted, and for ease of use, small diameter hoses work ok, and the
high pressure overcomes the flow resistance.


Bagged chip collectors [1] are typically large dirty fan type designs
powered by quiet induction motors. In use the air flow noise is probably
comparable to the motor noise, and they are typically quieter than the
tool itself. Filtration performance on them depends on the construction
of the bags. The basic cloth ones given good airflow but only large
particle filtration, felted top bags, and plastic dust bags give finer
collection (at some expense of airflow), and pleated cartridge filter
style top bags can do HEPA style filtration but need lots of power to
maintain air flow.

Of the "bin" style vacuum collectors - some are very much noisier than
others (some of the early generations of wet'n'dry vacs were
astonishingly loud!). As you go up market they get quieter. Note there
is a big jump in price the moment you move to M class [2] filtration
(which is usually the legal minimum for on site use in businesses).

So in short, a chip collector will be a much quieter option, and
probably work better on a table saw if it has a decent port size
(ideally 4").


[1]

https://www.axminstertools.com/axmin...tractor-105184


[2]

L Class = 1.0% Dusts with maximum allowable concentrations 1 mg/cubic
meter

M Class 0.1% Dusts with maximum allowable concentrationsÂ* = 0.1 mg/
cubic meter

H Class 0.005% Dusts with maximum allowable concentrations 0.1
mg/cubic meter

L class will normally do for table saws and softwoods, M class for table
saws and hardwoods and MDF etc, plus also sanding.

(H is only for specialist applications like machining asbestos, or
collecting soot).



I use a Jet JCDC-1.5 HVLP cyclone extractor for the table saw and
planer/thicknesser, and an Earlex LVHP+Dust Commander for routers,
sanders, etcetera. Until recently I used LVHP for the bandsaw but
upgraded the saw and the new one came with a 4" port, which seems odd.
The problem is the Bosch chopsaw, which comes with a 2"'ish port that is
totally inadequate. I keep meaning to add some sort of scoop behind it
but too many other jobs keep cropping-up. What do others do about
controlling chopsaw dust?

On 20/10/2020 10:20, wrote:

I use a Jet JCDC-1.5 HVLP cyclone extractor for the table saw and
planer/thicknesser, and an Earlex LVHP+Dust Commander for routers,
sanders, etcetera. Until recently I used LVHP for the bandsaw but
upgraded the saw and the new one came with a 4" port, which seems odd.

Mine has a 4" port... it seems quite well suited since it gives enough
air speed to capture pretty much all the dust. (which is moderately
coarse anyway)

The problem is the Bosch chopsaw, which comes with a 2"'ish port that is
totally inadequate. I keep meaning to add some sort of scoop behind it
but too many other jobs keep cropping-up. What do others do about
controlling chopsaw dust?

Let is spew all over the workshop, and keep saying to myself I must
build a proper chop saw station with a fully enclosed back!

Which I will do, although I might build a new workshop to put it in first...

To be fair the bag on it probably captures 60 - 70% of the dust, but
that still leaves plenty to go elsewhere.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/