A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.

--
*Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/10/2020 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.

It depends a bit on whether you have a blind hole or whether you have
gone into a void of any significant size. Polyester resin is one of the
classic "fixes" for this sort of problem, but perhaps a bit expensive
for just the one, and a small hole. Also, how strong does the fixing
have to be?

If probing suggests you have a reasonably small blind hole, it's just
that the plastic plug is spinning, then one strategy would be to inject
a surplus of epoxy glue, then push in the plug and wait for it all to
set. Make sure the plug is all the way through the tile. If the void is
larger but still fillable could you inject in mixed up car body filler
to fill it completely? Forget the wall plug, just drill a pilot hole and
let the screw grip on the filler.

On 09/10/2020 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.


If you have a large syringe a two part epoxy would do it. I should warm
it a bit first so it's runny, and be prepared to squirt in a lot more
than you'd think. As preparation you could drill through the hole
slightly diagonally to make a bigger cavity. You could enlarge the hole
through the tile with a little round file if necessary. Put gaffer tape
over the hole to keep the resin in.

Bill

On 09/10/2020 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.


Hot melt glue works well, pump it in and be quick with the plug.

--
Cheers
Clive

On 09/10/2020 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.


pva, gripfill, pva and newspaper, matchsticks, more pva, caulk, another
wall plug, pva.

TW

On 09/10/2020 14:54, williamwright wrote:
I should warm it a bit first so it's runny, and be prepared to squirt in
a lot more than you'd think.

Old terraced house with thin party walls ? :-)

On 09/10/2020 15:21, TimW wrote:
On 09/10/2020 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.


pva, gripfill, pva and newspaper, matchsticks, more pva, caulk, another
wall plug, pva.

TW

Plus the victorians old favourite - horse hair.

On 09/10/2020 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.



My solution to this type of problem would be to first remove the plug,
then get a syringe (without needle - the type used for filling ink
cartridges) and force clean water into the hole. Mix some filler and
after again wetting down the inside of the hole force the filler into
the hole using the back end of the drill bit to pack it to the back of
the hole. If you don't wet the hole sufficiently the water in the filler
will be immediately sucked out by the dry brickwork and become somewhat
ineffective. Either allow the filler to dry and re-drill for the plug or
whilst still wet re-drill very slowly by hand to the exact depth of the
plug and insert the plug. Allow everything to dry before inserting the
screw.

A sloppy gritty sand cement mix often works better than a smooth filler.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Yes I did that many years ago with a toilet roll holder, its still on the
wall!
Brian

--
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/10/2020 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.

It depends a bit on whether you have a blind hole or whether you have gone
into a void of any significant size. Polyester resin is one of the classic
"fixes" for this sort of problem, but perhaps a bit expensive for just the
one, and a small hole. Also, how strong does the fixing have to be?

If probing suggests you have a reasonably small blind hole, it's just that
the plastic plug is spinning, then one strategy would be to inject a
surplus of epoxy glue, then push in the plug and wait for it all to set.
Make sure the plug is all the way through the tile. If the void is larger
but still fillable could you inject in mixed up car body filler to fill it
completely? Forget the wall plug, just drill a pilot hole and let the
screw grip on the filler.

In article ,
newshound wrote:
On 09/10/2020 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.

It depends a bit on whether you have a blind hole or whether you have
gone into a void of any significant size. Polyester resin is one of the
classic "fixes" for this sort of problem, but perhaps a bit expensive
for just the one, and a small hole. Also, how strong does the fixing
have to be?

If probing suggests you have a reasonably small blind hole, it's just
that the plastic plug is spinning, then one strategy would be to inject
a surplus of epoxy glue, then push in the plug and wait for it all to
set. Make sure the plug is all the way through the tile. If the void is
larger but still fillable could you inject in mixed up car body filler
to fill it completely? Forget the wall plug, just drill a pilot hole and
let the screw grip on the filler.

Snag is due to the uneven plaster, I used dot and dab for the tiles.
Meaning there is very likely a void between the tile and hole in the
brick. It's approx 35mm from the outside of the tile to the bricks.

Some form of syringe with a long needle would allow me to inject gunge
into where the wall plug is - but where to get one that long?

--
*I have never hated a man enough to give his diamonds back.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/10/2020 11:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Some form of syringe with a long needle would allow me to inject gunge
into where the wall plug is - but where to get one that long?


I have the tee shirt. You will not get anything much thicker the
consistency of water down the needle.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-Pla...r=503293265138

https://tinyurl.com/y2c7gune

Large syringes (100ml or greater) may have a long and wide enough outlet
(without needle) and maybe you could force a tube of wide enough
diameter over the outlet. However you would still need a fairy running
mix that doesn't allow the water to separate (sand cement mix can be
problematical as the water is forced out first and then almost
immediately you are trying to inject dryish sand which will not compress
with the syringe plunger).


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 09/10/2020 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.

How strong a fixing do you need? If it's a relatively light load, you
may get away with one of those grey universal plugs which you can use in
either brick or plasterboard. If it's a good fit in the tile (don't push
it right through) the tile may be able to support the load.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Saturday, 10 October 2020 11:41:30 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:
On 09/10/2020 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.

It depends a bit on whether you have a blind hole or whether you have
gone into a void of any significant size. Polyester resin is one of the
classic "fixes" for this sort of problem, but perhaps a bit expensive
for just the one, and a small hole. Also, how strong does the fixing
have to be?

If probing suggests you have a reasonably small blind hole, it's just
that the plastic plug is spinning, then one strategy would be to inject
a surplus of epoxy glue, then push in the plug and wait for it all to
set. Make sure the plug is all the way through the tile. If the void is
larger but still fillable could you inject in mixed up car body filler
to fill it completely? Forget the wall plug, just drill a pilot hole and
let the screw grip on the filler.

Snag is due to the uneven plaster, I used dot and dab for the tiles.
Meaning there is very likely a void between the tile and hole in the
brick. It's approx 35mm from the outside of the tile to the bricks.

Some form of syringe with a long needle would allow me to inject gunge
into where the wall plug is - but where to get one that long?

If you really mean you've got 35mm from tile to brick, I'd just bung filler in & redrill. The filler creates solid sides for your new hole, which you can then fill as needed.

In article ,
wrote:
If you really mean you've got 35mm from tile to brick, I'd just bung
filler in & redrill. The filler creates solid sides for your new hole,
which you can then fill as needed.

The 35mm is only where I measured it. The Victorians used the most
irregular bricks where they knew it was going to be plastered, and kept
the best one where on show.

My worry about simply filling the void is that the load will be taken by
the tile - unless it bonds well to the brick. As the plaster ain't up to
taking much load.

--
*I took an IQ test and the results were negative.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
Large syringes (100ml or greater) may have a long and wide enough outlet
(without needle) and maybe you could force a tube of wide enough
diameter over the outlet. However you would still need a fairy running
mix that doesn't allow the water to separate (sand cement mix can be
problematical as the water is forced out first and then almost
immediately you are trying to inject dryish sand which will not compress
with the syringe plunger).

Thing is I'd need a 'needle' or tube from the syringe which is reasonably
rigid to direct the epoxy or whatever into the hole in the brick. And that
would likely mean steel, to fit through the hole in the tile, and have a
large enough flow.

--
*If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
alan_m wrote:
Large syringes (100ml or greater) may have a long and wide enough outlet
(without needle) and maybe you could force a tube of wide enough
diameter over the outlet. However you would still need a fairy running
mix that doesn't allow the water to separate (sand cement mix can be
problematical as the water is forced out first and then almost
immediately you are trying to inject dryish sand which will not compress
with the syringe plunger).

Thing is I'd need a 'needle' or tube from the syringe which is reasonably
rigid to direct the epoxy or whatever into the hole in the brick. And that
would likely mean steel, to fit through the hole in the tile, and have a
large enough flow.


Just use a longer plug...
--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 11 Oct 2020 at 10:50:04 BST, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote:

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
Large syringes (100ml or greater) may have a long and wide enough outlet
(without needle) and maybe you could force a tube of wide enough
diameter over the outlet. However you would still need a fairy running
mix that doesn't allow the water to separate (sand cement mix can be
problematical as the water is forced out first and then almost
immediately you are trying to inject dryish sand which will not compress
with the syringe plunger).

Thing is I'd need a 'needle' or tube from the syringe which is reasonably
rigid to direct the epoxy or whatever into the hole in the brick. And that
would likely mean steel, to fit through the hole in the tile, and have a
large enough flow.

You can get large syringe needles, certainly up to about 8G which is over 1/8"
ID. Should work with two part epoxy or cementitious tile glue.

--
Roger Hayter

On 11/10/2020 10:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
If you really mean you've got 35mm from tile to brick, I'd just bung
filler in & redrill. The filler creates solid sides for your new hole,
which you can then fill as needed.

The 35mm is only where I measured it. The Victorians used the most
irregular bricks where they knew it was going to be plastered, and kept
the best one where on show.

My worry about simply filling the void is that the load will be taken by
the tile - unless it bonds well to the brick. As the plaster ain't up to
taking much load.


If the plaster is anything like mine (10mm+ thick) and a sandy type mix
squirt some 50:50 water:PVA mix into the hole and let it dry. Then do a
filler of your choice. This will stabilise the plaster around the hole
and make it less likely to crumble.

As has been mentioned before there are different types of wall plugs and
if you have been using the standard brown/red/blue/yellow type then a
different type of plug may work better if the inside of the hole has
been stabilised with PVA.

These days I prefer this type
https://www.toolstation.com/fischer-...ce-plug/p98292

The kind of rigid tube you need to go down the hole is the kind found on
(disposable) pump action soap dispensers that you may have in your
bathroom, wash-room, or next to the kitchen sink. The tube should just
pull out of the pump head. Choose a soap dispenser with a fairly thick
soap as the tube is likely to have a larger inside bore.One I'm just to
put in the recycle sack is 5mm inside diameter and not bendy.

https://tinyurl.com/y5yb85nj

Ive just tried the fit with two ink refill type syringes that I have.
It is a loose fit on a 30ml syringe and too small to fit over the outlet
of a 100ml syringe.

Just a random thought: with a suitable tube you could fill it with a
substance of your choice and use the back end of a suitably sized drill
bit as the plunger to push out the contents


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

After serious thinking Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
A fixing into a plastered brick wall through tiles.

Most of the fixings went well - wall plugs pushed through the tiles into
the brick. But one obviously hit the soft old mortar, and won't tighten.

Anything that could be squirted through the hole to give a decent fixing?
Or any other ideas? I'm already at the limit of the longest screws I can
find in that diameter.

Apply some grease to the thread of 'your longest screw', then mix some
Plastic Padding car body filler and quickly before it sets and using a
syringe, squirt it deeply into the hole. Push it in as full as you can
get it, then put the screw in, but not all the way. Later, once it has
set, you can tighten the greased screw.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
If you really mean you've got 35mm from tile to brick, I'd just bung
filler in & redrill. The filler creates solid sides for your new hole,
which you can then fill as needed.

The 35mm is only where I measured it. The Victorians used the most
irregular bricks where they knew it was going to be plastered, and kept
the best one where on show.

My worry about simply filling the void is that the load will be taken by
the tile - unless it bonds well to the brick. As the plaster ain't up to
taking much load.

I met similar in my father's house in Edinburgh when putting hand rails.
The house was built of stone, so, much more irregular. I think I ended up
with 4 inch screws.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 09/10/2020 15:56, Andrew wrote:
On 09/10/2020 14:54, williamwright wrote:
I should warm it a bit first so it's runny, and be prepared to squirt
in a lot more than you'd think.

Old terraced house with thin party walls ? :-)

I did that once.

Bill