I happen to glance at my mums electricity meter today (she lives in a
tenement flat). The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�. Fortunately
shes not a heavy electricity user but Im curious as to what current this
kind of cable is rated to.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7


--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 25/09/2020 22:56, Tim+ wrote:
I happen to glance at my mums electricity meter today (she lives in a
tenement flat). The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�. Fortunately
shes not a heavy electricity user but Im curious as to what current this
kind of cable is rated to.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7


should be good for a couple of hundred amps, same as a car starter motor
draws.

House is probably fused at 60A.

--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

On 25/09/2020 22:56, Tim+ wrote:
I happen to glance at my mums electricity meter today (she lives in a
tenement flat). The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�. Fortunately
shes not a heavy electricity user but Im curious as to what current this
kind of cable is rated to.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7


Looks like a fairly standard supply arrangement, should be capable of at
least 60A.

On Friday, 25 September 2020 22:56:36 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
I happen to glance at my mums electricity meter today (she lives in a
tenement flat). The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�. Fortunately
shes not a heavy electricity user but Im curious as to what current this
kind of cable is rated to.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7

If it's 16mm or Imperial equivalent, Single phase clipped direct or better (C/1) = 87A

It's "suppliers works" anyway, so BS 7671 doesn't apply. I think my flat was on about 6mm.

Unless mum has 8 3-bar electric fires running full tilt, it's not going to overheat.

And assuming mum being in a tenement flat is of the Scottish persuasion, she'll not be running 3-bar electric fires when one would do, turning the second one on for visitors.

Owain

On 25 Sep 2020 at 22:56:31 BST, "Tim+" wrote:

I happen to glance at my mums electricity meter today (she lives in a
tenement flat). The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�. Fortunately
shes not a heavy electricity user but Im curious as to what current this
kind of cable is rated to.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7

The outgoing wires from the meter to the fusebox look more worryingly slim.
Can you show us the consumer unit, or tell us how many and what rating MCBs or
fuses it has? Or when you said incoming did you mean from the meter to the
house? Normally incoming would mean the grey covered wires from the supply
to the meter.


--
Roger Hayter

Roger Hayter wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7

The outgoing wires from the meter to the fusebox look more worryingly slim.

Surely the outgoing (on the right) are thicker than the incoming?

On 26 Sep 2020 at 11:54:29 BST, "Andy Burns" wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7

The outgoing wires from the meter to the fusebox look more worryingly slim.

Surely the outgoing (on the right) are thicker than the incoming?

Oh yes, you could be right. I interpreted the grey wires as daisy-chained
supply wires going to other flats, but perhaps this flat has three large meter
tails from a connection block to three CUs - that's even odder to my mind.

--
Roger Hayter

On 26/09/2020 12:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Sep 2020 at 11:54:29 BST, "Andy Burns" wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7

The outgoing wires from the meter to the fusebox look more worryingly slim.

Surely the outgoing (on the right) are thicker than the incoming?

Oh yes, you could be right. I interpreted the grey wires as daisy-chained
supply wires going to other flats, but perhaps this flat has three large meter
tails from a connection block to three CUs - that's even odder to my mind.

If you look closely the black tails coming out of the meter are quite slim!

Roger Hayter wrote:

I interpreted the grey wires as daisy-chained
supply wires going to other flats, but perhaps this flat has three large meter
tails from a connection block to three CUs - that's even odder to my mind.

The "henley" block (actually it's an MK) does look odd, one red/black in
and three reds out plus another of unknown colour tucked behind the three?

On 26 Sep 2020 at 12:15:28 BST, "Andy Burns" wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:

I interpreted the grey wires as daisy-chained
supply wires going to other flats, but perhaps this flat has three large
meter
tails from a connection block to three CUs - that's even odder to my mind.

The "henley" block (actually it's an MK) does look odd, one red/black in
and three reds out plus another of unknown colour tucked behind the three?

I suppose the red wires could be to an Economy 7 switch, but aren't these
normally two pole? Is it possible that the MK block is arranged as joined
pairs front to back rather than a multiway block?

--
Roger Hayter

On 25/09/2020 22:56, Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires
The black ones?

On 26/09/2020 12:24, R D S wrote:
On 25/09/2020 22:56, Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires
The black ones?

They are more likely to be the 'outgoing'.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 01:43:29 -0700, spuorgelgoog wrote:

And assuming mum being in a tenement flat is of the Scottish persuasion,
she'll not be running 3-bar electric fires when one would do, turning
the second one on for visitors.

Surely she'd turn the one off, with visitors radiating extra heat!



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

If you look closely the black tails coming out of the meter are quite slim!

ITYM "going into"

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 12:15:28 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:

I interpreted the grey wires as daisy-chained supply wires going to
other flats, but perhaps this flat has three large meter tails from a
connection block to three CUs - that's even odder to my mind.

The "henley" block (actually it's an MK) does look odd, one red/black in
and three reds out plus another of unknown colour tucked behind the
three?

Ours is like that. It's because there was originally one consumer unit,
and I wanted more ways on it. Impossible in the space, so there are two
more above the first, with a Henley block below. All the tails are
25mmsq, apart from the ones from the meter to the Henley block!



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
On 25/09/2020 22:56, Tim+ wrote:
I happen to glance at my mums electricity meter today (she lives in a
tenement flat). The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�. Fortunately
shes not a heavy electricity user but Im curious as to what current this
kind of cable is rated to.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7


Looks like a fairly standard supply arrangement, should be capable of at
least 60A.


There isnt a problem but I find the disparity between the meter inputs and
outputs rather amusing. I guess the tails between the meter and the fuse
box are determined by regulations rather than need.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

R D S wrote:
On 25/09/2020 22:56, Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires
The black ones?


Yep...

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
On 26/09/2020 12:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Sep 2020 at 11:54:29 BST, "Andy Burns" wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7

The outgoing wires from the meter to the fusebox look more worryingly slim.

Surely the outgoing (on the right) are thicker than the incoming?

Oh yes, you could be right. I interpreted the grey wires as daisy-chained
supply wires going to other flats, but perhaps this flat has three large meter
tails from a connection block to three CUs - that's even odder to my mind.

If you look closely the black tails coming out of the meter are quite slim!

Um no. Thats the input.

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 26/09/2020 12:27, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
On 26/09/2020 12:24, R D S wrote:
On 25/09/2020 22:56, Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires
The black ones?

They are more likely to be the 'outgoing'.

That's what I thought originally but then got to wondering why you'd
have several supply connected in that block.

On 26/09/2020 12:29, Andy Burns wrote:
Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

If you look closely the black tails coming out of the meter are quite
slim!

ITYM "going into"

What i meant was the black tails are quite slim. Whether they are
'coming out' or 'going in' to the meter is hard to ascertain from the
photo.

Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

R D S wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires

The black ones?

They are more likely to be the 'outgoing'.

I thought the supply into a meter was always on the left?

On 26/09/2020 12:30, Tim+ wrote:
R D S wrote:
On 25/09/2020 22:56, Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires
The black ones?


Yep...


I'm sure if was a problem it would have been flagged up by now but yes,
they do look very poxy don't they?

Makes you wonder if half of the copper on the other side of the meter is
a waste of money!

Jack Harry Teesdale has brought this to us :
If you look closely the black tails coming out of the meter are quite slim!

4mm or maybe 6mm at a guess. I wonder if they are single or double
sheathed? I have never seen black double sheathed.

On 26/09/2020 12:30, Tim+ wrote:

There isnt a problem but I find the disparity between the meter inputs and
outputs rather amusing. I guess the tails between the meter and the fuse
box are determined by regulations rather than need.

From arguments I've had with commercial landlords over the years i've
learned that if something is potentially inadequate but historical, it
can be left.

On 26 Sep 2020 11:30:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

There isn t a problem but I find the disparity between the meter
inputs and outputs rather amusing.

It does look odd and a bit skinny. And I bet they would get quite
warm if there are highish sustained loads like night storage heating.
The 16 mm^2 tails here get warm with only 10 kW of loading. Those
black wires look nearer 10 mm^2.

IIRC the DNO is resposible up to the main cutout's output terminals
and the MET. The supplier does cutout to meter and the meter. The
customer down stream from the meter output terminals and to the MET
as required. Trying to get the supplier to pay any attention might be
fun and if they can be persuaded to do anything they'll probably sub
it out to the DNO...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 26/09/2020 12:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Sep 2020 at 11:54:29 BST, "Andy Burns" wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7

The outgoing wires from the meter to the fusebox look more worryingly slim.

Surely the outgoing (on the right) are thicker than the incoming?

Oh yes, you could be right. I interpreted the grey wires as daisy-chained
supply wires going to other flats, but perhaps this flat has three large meter
tails from a connection block to three CUs - that's even odder to my mind.



Meter are wired left to right Lin Nin Nout Lout

Nout actually serves no purpose and the neutral to the CU could be
direct from the cut out if desired. The neutral is only there to allow
the meter to work.

--
Adam

On 26/09/2020 12:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jack Harry Teesdale has brought this to us :
If you look closely the black tails coming out of the meter are quite
slim!

4mm or maybe 6mm at a guess. I wonder if they are single or double
sheathed? I have never seen black double sheathed.


Probably MICC cable. Note the red sleeving on one of the cores.

6mm should do 60A.

--
Adam

On 26/09/2020 12:41, R D S wrote:
On 26/09/2020 12:30, Tim+ wrote:
R D S wrote:
On 25/09/2020 22:56, Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires
The black ones?


Yep...


I'm sure if was a problem it would have been flagged up by now but yes,
they do look very poxy don't they?

Makes you wonder if half of the copper on the other side of the meter is
a waste of money!


Or not.

The cable on the load side might have a different maximum operating
temperature to the incoming cable. The bigger the cable the lower the
temperature.

--
Adam

On 26/09/2020 12:15, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Hayter wrote:

I interpreted the grey wires as daisy-chained
supply wires going to other flats, but perhaps this flat has three
large meter
tails from a connection block to three CUs - that's even odder to my
mind.

The "henley" block (actually it's an MK) does look odd, one red/black in
and three reds out plus another of unknown colour tucked behind the three?


That suggests after a closer look that there are 2 CUs and somebody only
had red tails on their van,

The two tails on the left are in the neutral bar in the MK block

--
Adam

On 26/09/2020 12:15, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Hayter wrote:

I interpreted the grey wires as daisy-chained
supply wires going to other flats, but perhaps this flat has three
large meter
tails from a connection block to three CUs - that's even odder to my
mind.

The "henley" block (actually it's an MK) does look odd,

Well it is upside down and probably an EICR fail.


--
Adam

ARW submitted this idea :
Probably MICC cable. Note the red sleeving on one of the cores.

6mm should do 60A.

MICC installed by the DNO - I have never seen that.

On 26/09/2020 13:20, ARW wrote:
On 26/09/2020 12:41, R D S wrote:
On 26/09/2020 12:30, Tim+ wrote:
R D S wrote:
On 25/09/2020 22:56, Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires
The black ones?


Yep...


I'm sure if was a problem it would have been flagged up by now but
yes, they do look very poxy don't they?

Makes you wonder if half of the copper on the other side of the meter
is a waste of money!


Or not.

The cable on the load side might have a different maximum operating
temperature to the incoming cable. The bigger the cable the lower the
temperature.

And MICC is often rated at 90 deg operating. (not sure what the meter is
rated for though).

At a guess the PVC tails look to be at least 16mm^2 which would make
those at least 9mm diameter. Since there are two MICC cables,that
suggests a 1H? configuration (i.e. single core with mineral insulation
and copper clad sheath). Something like 1H6 (6mm^2 conductor) is only
about 6.5mm overall diameter, and that is good for ~50A


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25 Sep 2020 21:56:31 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

I happen to glance at my mum’s electricity meter today (she lives in a
tenement flat). The incoming wires look decidedly “skinny”. Fortunately
she’s not a heavy electricity user but I’m curious as to what current this
kind of cable is rated to.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7

I've read through this thread with interest. Until two years ago I
lived in a tenement flat in Dundee, built c 1890. Obviously gas-lit
originally, the electric supply was installed by "the Dundee Electric
Co." The single incoming cable was original, about 1.5" diameter. This
went to a locked box on the first floor, and power was distributed to
the communal lighting and the eight flats in the block I sometimes
wondered about the load going through that cable on a cold winter's
night, but there was never any trouble in the 20 years I was there.

On 26/09/2020 12:38, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
On 26/09/2020 12:29, Andy Burns wrote:
Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

If you look closely the black tails coming out of the meter are quite
slim!

ITYM "going into"

What i meant was the black tails are quite slim. Whether they are
'coming out' or 'going in' to the meter is hard to ascertain from the
photo.

Input is on the left of most meters...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 26/09/2020 18:16, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/09/2020 12:38, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
On 26/09/2020 12:29, Andy Burns wrote:
Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

If you look closely the black tails coming out of the meter are
quite slim!

ITYM "going into"

What i meant was the black tails are quite slim. Whether they are
'coming out' or 'going in' to the meter is hard to ascertain from the
photo.

Input is on the left of most meters...


Do neutral tails actually need to be the same rating as the
live one anyway ?. Often wondered because the overhead supply to
older properties frequently seem to have two uninsulated copper
cables where one is noticibly thicker than the other.

On 26 Sep 2020 at 13:05:44 BST, "ARW" wrote:

On 26/09/2020 12:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Sep 2020 at 11:54:29 BST, "Andy Burns" wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7

The outgoing wires from the meter to the fusebox look more worryingly
slim.

Surely the outgoing (on the right) are thicker than the incoming?

Oh yes, you could be right. I interpreted the grey wires as daisy-chained
supply wires going to other flats, but perhaps this flat has three large
meter
tails from a connection block to three CUs - that's even odder to my mind.



Meter are wired left to right Lin Nin Nout Lout

Nout actually serves no purpose and the neutral to the CU could be
direct from the cut out if desired. The neutral is only there to allow
the meter to work.

Best not if there is an isolation switch between the cutout and the meter.
Just in case anyone followed your suggestion literally.
--
Roger Hayter

On 26/09/2020 19:33, Andrew wrote:
On 26/09/2020 18:16, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/09/2020 12:38, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
On 26/09/2020 12:29, Andy Burns wrote:
Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

If you look closely the black tails coming out of the meter are
quite slim!

ITYM "going into"

What i meant was the black tails are quite slim. Whether they are
'coming out' or 'going in' to the meter is hard to ascertain from the
photo.

Input is on the left of most meters...


Do neutral tails actually need to be the same rating as the
live one anyway ?.

Within a single phase installation, then yes generally (unless upstream
fusing is adequate to protect the thinner conductor, and the other is
just over provisioned)

Often wondered because the overhead supply to
older properties frequently seem to have two uninsulated copper
cables where one is noticibly thicker than the other.

I would guess that in cases where the overhead supply is three phase and
neutral, and they have spread the loads (i.e. properties) reasonably
evenly between the phases, they would expect the total neutral current
to be noticeably lower than that of the phases. (in an ideal world it
would be zero)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 26/09/2020 20:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Sep 2020 at 13:05:44 BST, "ARW" wrote:

On 26/09/2020 12:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Sep 2020 at 11:54:29 BST, "Andy Burns" wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

The incoming wires look decidedly €œskinny€�.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7

The outgoing wires from the meter to the fusebox look more worryingly
slim.

Surely the outgoing (on the right) are thicker than the incoming?

Oh yes, you could be right. I interpreted the grey wires as daisy-chained
supply wires going to other flats, but perhaps this flat has three large
meter
tails from a connection block to three CUs - that's even odder to my mind.



Meter are wired left to right Lin Nin Nout Lout

Nout actually serves no purpose and the neutral to the CU could be
direct from the cut out if desired. The neutral is only there to allow
the meter to work.

Best not if there is an isolation switch between the cutout and the meter.
Just in case anyone followed your suggestion literally.


Trust me, that is the last place an electric co will place an isolation
switch.

--
Adam

On 26/09/2020 14:27, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
ARW submitted this idea :
Probably MICC cable. Note the red sleeving on one of the cores.

6mm should do 60A.

MICC installed by the DNO - I have never seen that.

We are talking about a different country:-)

--
Adam

Tim+ Wrote in message:
I happen to glance at my mum?s electricity meter today (she lives in a
tenement flat). The incoming wires look decidedly ?skinny?. Fortunately
she?s not a heavy electricity user but I?m curious as to what current this
kind of cable is rated to.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bxXz6j1vgG8fNX7T7


--
Please don't feed the trolls


****in ell!
--

%Profound_observation%


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