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Default Running power to shed

Hi
I know this has been asked many times before, but just wondering...

House did have a spur from ring to shed a while back. This was laid
under path etc as standard 2.5mm in various conduits (mostly old
hosepipe). This was surely the way to do it in the 60's.
Anyway, that failed at various places and with some burn marks too. It
has now been disconnected by an electrician when he was re-wiring the
kitchen. The shed did have it's own set of fuses, but ALL of the
electrics have now been removed due to cracking, age, etc.

So, is it acceptable to run normal cable in a more suitable conduit as a
fused spur off the main house ring along the top of a fence some 20m to
the shed? The wire run would exit the house about a foot from the
ground, go up the wall about 2m then across about 1m to the fence. Along
the fence and enter the shed. Only to be used for lighting and normal
power tools.

Ta.
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Default Running power to shed

On 06/07/2020 08:28, Grumps wrote:
Hi
I know this has been asked many times before, but just wondering...

House did have a spur from ring to shed a while back. This was laid
under path etc as standard 2.5mm in various conduits (mostly old
hosepipe). This was surely the way to do it in the 60's.
Anyway, that failed at various places and with some burn marks too. It
has now been disconnected by an electrician when he was re-wiring the
kitchen. The shed did have it's own set of fuses, but ALL of the
electrics have now been removed due to cracking, age, etc.

So, is it acceptable to run normal cable in a more suitable conduit as a
fused spur off the main house ring along the top of a fence some 20m to
the shed? The wire run would exit the house about a foot from the
ground, go up the wall about 2m then across about 1m to the fence. Along
the fence and enter the shed. Only to be used for lighting and normal
power tools.

Ta.


I wouldn't. I'd run armoured cable in the original conduit if I could.
Even if no more than to have a house I wasn't ashamed to sell on, one day



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Default Running power to shed

On 06/07/2020 08:28, Grumps wrote:
Hi
I know this has been asked many times before, but just wondering...

House did have a spur from ring to shed a while back. This was laid
under path etc as standard 2.5mm in various conduits (mostly old
hosepipe). This was surely the way to do it in the 60's.


Totally agree it was the way they did it. My parents 1968 built house
had a detached garage with 2.5mm T&E (with a 1mm cpc) in hosepipe under
the lawn.

Anyway, that failed at various places and with some burn marks too. It
has now been disconnected by an electrician when he was re-wiring the
kitchen. The shed did have it's own set of fuses, but ALL of the
electrics have now been removed due to cracking, age, etc.

So, is it acceptable to run normal cable in a more suitable conduit as a
fused spur off the main house ring along the top of a fence some 20m to
the shed? The wire run would exit the house about a foot from the
ground, go up the wall about 2m then across about 1m to the fence. Along
the fence and enter the shed. Only to be used for lighting and normal
power tools.

Ta.


T&E or singles in conduit is fine however I would just use SWA.

--
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Default Running power to shed

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I'd run armoured cable in the original conduit if I could.


I suspect you'd struggle to get more than a few feet of SWA inside a
hosepipe ...
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Default Running power to shed

On Monday, 6 July 2020 08:28:30 UTC+1, Grumps wrote:
So, is it acceptable to run normal cable in a more suitable conduit as a
fused spur off the main house ring along the top of a fence some 20m to
the shed?


Not along a fence, which isn't considered a permanent structure.

Along a wall is okay.

If you don't want to go underground, overhead cable on a catenary wire is ok.

Owain


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Default Running power to shed

On 06/07/2020 08:28, Grumps wrote:
Hi
I know this has been asked many times before, but just wondering...

House did have a spur from ring to shed a while back. This was laid
under path etc as standard 2.5mm in various conduits (mostly old
hosepipe). This was surely the way to do it in the 60's.


Indeed...

Anyway, that failed at various places and with some burn marks too. It
has now been disconnected by an electrician when he was re-wiring the
kitchen. The shed did have it's own set of fuses, but ALL of the
electrics have now been removed due to cracking, age, etc.

So, is it acceptable to run normal cable in a more suitable conduit as a
fused spur off the main house ring along the top of a fence some 20m to
the shed?


Cable in proper conduit is ok, although I would be less keen on "top of
the fence" bit.

Having said that, SWA is much simpler - since it in effect has its own
conduit, and so less aggro.

The wire run would exit the house about a foot from the
ground, go up the wall about 2m then across about 1m to the fence. Along
the fence and enter the shed. Only to be used for lighting and normal
power tools.


I would probably clip it to the base of the fence, or for that matter
lay it on the ground if its not going to be in the way of anything.
Ideally bury it, but that may be impractical.

Might be worth looking at:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ricity_outside





--
Cheers,

John.

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Default Running power to shed

Is there room in your consumer unit to fit it to a new RCBO?

So if/when it trips it wont take out other things,
and easier to isolate it

[g]

On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 8:28:30 AM UTC+1, Grumps wrote:
Hi
I know this has been asked many times before, but just wondering...

House did have a spur from ring to shed a while back. This was laid
under path etc as standard 2.5mm in various conduits (mostly old
hosepipe). This was surely the way to do it in the 60's.
Anyway, that failed at various places and with some burn marks too. It
has now been disconnected by an electrician when he was re-wiring the
kitchen. The shed did have it's own set of fuses, but ALL of the
electrics have now been removed due to cracking, age, etc.

So, is it acceptable to run normal cable in a more suitable conduit as a
fused spur off the main house ring along the top of a fence some 20m to
the shed? The wire run would exit the house about a foot from the
ground, go up the wall about 2m then across about 1m to the fence. Along
the fence and enter the shed. Only to be used for lighting and normal
power tools.

Ta.




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Default Running power to shed

On 06/07/2020 09:22, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I'd run armoured cable in the original conduit if I could.


I suspect you'd struggle to get more than a few feet of SWA inside a
hosepipe ...


Depends on the diameter. 16A stuff no probs. 60A stuff, you are right.

BUT the OP doesn't need to get it in more than a few feet - only where
it goes under concrete paths etc.


--
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the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

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Default Running power to shed

Bury the SWA with plastic marker tape above it, there is a legal minimum depth

400-700 mm ish

count it as exercise

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...#Direct_burial


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Default Running power to shed

On 06/07/2020 12:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That's an engineering decision.

LOL!

Some fences are better than others.


Yeah, Adam, we all know you went over an loaded up most of the Berlin
wall in your van and erected it between you and your neighbour. Did you
get planning permission for the machine gun post?



I can't see why you would insert such gratuitous nonsense into the
discussion other than for your own perverted gratification.

There are structures described as fences that form part of the
infrastructure of prisons and other establishments that are very
definitely permanent structures. Serious concrete, large size I sections
and rails, mesh that would stop a truck, etc.

BIll
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Default Running power to shed

George Miles wrote:
Is there room in your consumer unit to fit it to a new RCBO?

So if/when it trips it wont take out other things,
and easier to isolate it

Yes, it's a very good idea if you can separate the outside circuits,
they do have more reasons for tripping in my experience. Until I
separated ours the garden would trip the garage circuit that powered
the door that gave access to the outside consumer unit! (We did have
alternative access but that involved finding the key to the side door
and fighting through piles of junk)

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On 06/07/2020 13:35, williamwright wrote:


There are structures described as fences that form part of the
infrastructure of prisons and other establishments that are very
definitely permanent structures. Serious concrete, large size I sections
and rails, mesh that would stop a truck, etc.


I know. I had to dig down under one at a secure unit last year to power
their new lampposts.

This was just a mesh fence.

Just to add the choice of shrubbery is almost certainly there to stop
people from digging their way out.

And that was at the ward I was given keys to and not the very secure
unit round the corner that needs fingerprint access to open doors.


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On Monday, 6 July 2020 14:04:40 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
And that was at the ward I was given keys to and not the very secure
unit round the corner that needs fingerprint access to open doors.


*Live* fingerprints?

Owain



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Default Running power to shed

Yes there is. This is all sounding like it needs notification. Might be
simpler to get a sparks in.

Adding an FCU is allowed and non-notifiable (yes?).
Adding a new circuit for a shed is notifiable. Does that include adding
cable to the other side of the FCU?


On 06/07/2020 12:12, George Miles wrote:
Is there room in your consumer unit to fit it to a new RCBO?

So if/when it trips it wont take out other things,
and easier to isolate it

[g]

On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 8:28:30 AM UTC+1, Grumps wrote:
Hi
I know this has been asked many times before, but just wondering...

House did have a spur from ring to shed a while back. This was laid
under path etc as standard 2.5mm in various conduits (mostly old
hosepipe). This was surely the way to do it in the 60's.
Anyway, that failed at various places and with some burn marks too. It
has now been disconnected by an electrician when he was re-wiring the
kitchen. The shed did have it's own set of fuses, but ALL of the
electrics have now been removed due to cracking, age, etc.

So, is it acceptable to run normal cable in a more suitable conduit as a
fused spur off the main house ring along the top of a fence some 20m to
the shed? The wire run would exit the house about a foot from the
ground, go up the wall about 2m then across about 1m to the fence. Along
the fence and enter the shed. Only to be used for lighting and normal
power tools.

Ta.



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On 06/07/2020 15:43, Grumps wrote:

Yes there is. This is all sounding like it needs notification. Might be
simpler to get a sparks in.


Outside electrics are no longer classed as notifiable.

However installing a whole new circuit is. So something similar to
previous (i.e. spur[1] from existing circuit) would not need notification.

[1] Make it a double pole switched spur, and you then have a means of
isolating the outside stuff if a fault causes tripping on the house
circuit.

Adding an FCU is allowed and non-notifiable (yes?).


Yes

Adding a new circuit for a shed is notifiable.


A new circuit back to the main CU would be notifiable.

Does that include adding
cable to the other side of the FCU?


No, that's extending an existing circuit.

Since your house circuit likely already has 30mA trip RCD protection,
then that is fine for the shed also. However if you are likely to be in
there using power tools after dark, then it might be sensible to include
a "non maintained" emergency light in the shed, just in case you trip
something while still holding a "spinning down" machine.



--
Cheers,

John.

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On 06/07/2020 12:56, George Miles wrote:

Bury the SWA with plastic marker tape above it, there is a legal minimum depth


I am not aware of any legal minimum specified depth, however 522.8.10 in
BS7671:2018 simply says "Buried cables, conduits and ducts, shall be at
a sufficient depth to avoid being damaged by any reasonable forceable
disturbance of the ground". So under a concrete path can be shallower
than say under vegetable plot.

400-700 mm ish

count it as exercise

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...#Direct_burial



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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On 06/07/2020 16:00, ARW wrote:
On 06/07/2020 14:25, wrote:
On Monday, 6 July 2020 14:04:40 UTC+1, ARWÂ* wrote:
And that was at the ward I was given keys to and not the very secure
unit round the corner that needs fingerprint access to open doors.


*Live* fingerprints?



Blakes 7 series one episode 2

24 min 30 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpqQPKjs27o

AICMFP


"We only need the hand": I still remember that as one of the most
chilling lines ever in tv or film!
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On 06/07/2020 18:05, newshound wrote:
On 06/07/2020 16:00, ARW wrote:
On 06/07/2020 14:25, wrote:
On Monday, 6 July 2020 14:04:40 UTC+1, ARWÂ* wrote:
And that was at the ward I was given keys to and not the very secure
unit round the corner that needs fingerprint access to open doors.

*Live* fingerprints?



Blakes 7 series one episode 2

24 min 30 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpqQPKjs27o

AICMFP


"We only need the hand": I still remember that as one of the most
chilling lines ever in tv or film!


It's funny, I don't remember them all being so young!

Andy
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On Mon, 06 Jul 2020 22:05:57 +0100, Vir Campestris wrote:

"We only need the hand": I still remember that as one of the most
chilling lines ever in tv or film!


If it weren't such a bad book, I'd tell you to go and lok at "Digital
Fortress". With the retinal scan lock..



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"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/07/2020 16:01, No Name wrote:
On 06/07/2020 12:51, GB wrote:
On 06/07/2020 11:48, Andrew wrote:
On 06/07/2020 11:18, Chris Green wrote:
ARW wrote:
On 06/07/2020 10:08, wrote:
On Monday, 6 July 2020 08:28:30 UTC+1, Grumps wrote:
So, is it acceptable to run normal cable in a more suitable conduit
as a
fused spur off the main house ring along the top of a fence some
20m to
the shed?

Not along a fence, which isn't considered a permanent structure.

Along a wall is okay.

If you don't want to go underground, overhead cable on a catenary
wire is ok.


That's an engineering decision.

Some fences are better than others.

I have SWA routed along a solid (horse proof) post and rail fence.
It's lasted 20 years already and survived one bit of fence collapse
(the SWA helped it stay sort of in place while I replaced a couple of
posts).


Horses quite like nibbling away at horizontal fence rails and
tops of stable doors though :-(

They'll get quite a surprise when they nibble through the SWA.



that'll teach them not to indulge in horseplay!


Horses are vicious violent *******s


Thats because that and their speed is all they have against predators.

no idea why Penelope wants one for her 15th birthday


Its certainly something that appeals to young girls for some reason.

other than it has teeth that look like her mothers dentures that were used
to replace the teeth the horse kicked out of her mouth.



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Whatever he does, I'd use armoured cable. I still have mine connected
waiting for a new shed, but looking at it its completely unscathed and that
would not be the case with anything else out there for that long even if it
were in some conduit.

Brian

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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 06/07/2020 08:28, Grumps wrote:
Hi
I know this has been asked many times before, but just wondering...

House did have a spur from ring to shed a while back. This was laid under
path etc as standard 2.5mm in various conduits (mostly old hosepipe).
This was surely the way to do it in the 60's.
Anyway, that failed at various places and with some burn marks too. It
has now been disconnected by an electrician when he was re-wiring the
kitchen. The shed did have it's own set of fuses, but ALL of the
electrics have now been removed due to cracking, age, etc.

So, is it acceptable to run normal cable in a more suitable conduit as a
fused spur off the main house ring along the top of a fence some 20m to
the shed? The wire run would exit the house about a foot from the ground,
go up the wall about 2m then across about 1m to the fence. Along the
fence and enter the shed. Only to be used for lighting and normal power
tools.

Ta.


I wouldn't. I'd run armoured cable in the original conduit if I could.
Even if no more than to have a house I wasn't ashamed to sell on, one day



--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"



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On 07/07/2020 08:55, Peeler wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 16:40:01 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
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