Hi all,

I'm basically planning on buying a shed, and converting it to an office. I know that its likely cheaper to just build the whole thing yourself, but I really am not confident that I could do that, so have decided to go down the conversion route.

I'd like to start with something like this: Suvi 212 Log Cabin - Summerhouses & Log Cabins - Garden Sheds & Buildings -Gardens - Wickes or this: http://www.gardenbuildingsdirect.co....fice-Log-Cabin

Which I'll then insulate, and basically I want the final finish to be plaster-boarded internal walls, with a good thick insulation all around, ad I'll be working in it year-round.

The annoying thing is that pretty much every 'high-street' shed is really awful quality, and very expensive. However at this stage I'm not sure I could undertake a self-designed/self-built one as I have never done anything like this before.

I'm really looking for some advice, mainly for the insulation and damp proofing. From my understanding, if I take a box-standard shed like the one linked to above, is the following correct?

1. Wrap the internal walls , roof and floor in a damp-proof material such as celotex. (How do I go about venting this, and does the air vent just need to go through the celotex, or all the way through the internal plasterboard?)

2. Add battens as you normally would for a wall, get internal wiring in place, so the electrician can then just hook it up to the shed's fuse box (the electrician will be doing all the stuff he has to, but I'd be ok putting the plug sockets in place ready for him)

3. Insulate the walls (at this stage I have no idea what type of insulation I should be using. Advice?

4. Add plasterboards over insulation and fix in place.

5. Roof: Add insulation (again, no idea what type) followed by plasterboards

6. Floor: Add internal batters, with insulation, followed by ply (or should it be mdf?) flooring, which will be covered with laminate at the end.

7. Door: Once the floor has (I assume) been rased due to the internal insulation, I'm guessing a few inches will need lopping off the bottom.

I could have this all majorly wrong so any advice would be appreciated greatly. I've been searching high and low for some decent info, but a lot of the places only cover US sheds, and while there are a few similarities, the construction of them seems very different with a 'farm barn' style that we dont really have in the UK.

Getting back onto the subject of a completely custom / diy one. I think the biggest problems I have is A) the plans and B) the roof. I'd have no idea how to plan it, and I'd be worried that the roof wouldn't be strong enough.

On 29/04/2012 18:26, rmwebs wrote:
Hi all,

I'm basically planning on buying a shed, and converting it to an office.
I know that its likely cheaper to just build the whole thing yourself,
but I really am not confident that I could do that, so have decided to
go down the conversion route.

I'd like to start with something like this: 'Suvi 212 Log Cabin -
Summerhouses& Log Cabins - Garden Sheds& Buildings -Gardens - Wickes'
(http://www.wickes.co.uk/suvi-212-log-cabin/invt/218595/) or this:
http://tinyurl.com/7a3radx

Which I'll then insulate, and basically I want the final finish to be
plaster-boarded internal walls, with a good thick insulation all around,
ad I'll be working in it year-round.

The annoying thing is that pretty much every 'high-street' shed is
really awful quality, and very expensive. However at this stage I'm not
sure I could undertake a self-designed/self-built one as I have never
done anything like this before.

I'm really looking for some advice, mainly for the insulation and damp
proofing. From my understanding, if I take a box-standard shed like the
one linked to above, is the following correct?

1. Wrap the internal walls , roof and floor in a damp-proof material
such as celotex. (How do I go about venting this, and does the air vent
just need to go through the celotex, or all the way through the internal
plasterboard?)

2. Add battens as you normally would for a wall, get internal wiring in
place, so the electrician can then just hook it up to the shed's fuse
box (the electrician will be doing all the stuff he has to, but I'd be
ok putting the plug sockets in place ready for him)

3. Insulate the walls (at this stage I have no idea what type of
insulation I should be using. Advice?

4. Add plasterboards over insulation and fix in place.

5. Roof: Add insulation (again, no idea what type) followed by
plasterboards

6. Floor: Add internal batters, with insulation, followed by ply (or
should it be mdf?) flooring, which will be covered with laminate at the
end.

7. Door: Once the floor has (I assume) been rased due to the internal
insulation, I'm guessing a few inches will need lopping off the bottom.

I could have this all majorly wrong so any advice would be appreciated
greatly. I've been searching high and low for some decent info, but a
lot of the places only cover US sheds, and while there are a few
similarities, the construction of them seems very different with a 'farm
barn' style that we dont really have in the UK.

Getting back onto the subject of a completely custom / diy one. I think
the biggest problems I have is A) the plans and B) the roof. I'd have no
idea how to plan it, and I'd be worried that the roof wouldn't be strong
enough.


Where is this going to be installed? Have you bottomed out all the
Planning and Building regs issues?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/2012 18:26, rmwebs wrote:
Hi all,



Where is this going to be installed? Have you bottomed out all the
Planning and Building regs issues?

If it's in his (rear/side) garden, I don't think that there are any issues
provided that he doesn't convert it into something that is intended to be
slept in.

tim

tim.... wrote:
"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/2012 18:26, rmwebs wrote:
Hi all,


Where is this going to be installed? Have you bottomed out all the
Planning and Building regs issues?

If it's in his (rear/side) garden, I don't think that there are any issues
provided that he doesn't convert it into something that is intended to be
slept in.

e.g.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17185294

staggering. Reminds me of Soweto.

tim






--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On 30/04/2012 14:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17185294

staggering. Reminds me of Soweto.


Cripes, bring the xray/infrared cameras out - that is very possibly
happening down my street!...

--
Adrian C

Thanks for all the replies everyone, John your post was awesome and your shed/workshop looks great!

For planning regs I should be fine, its going in the back garden and will be under 2.5 meters. It wont take up anywhere near the 50% limit either.

I took a trip down to my local shed dealers (Millers Garden Buildings in St Albans) who had a really nice looking garden room with two double glazed windows and a double glazed door. It's basically exactly the kind of thing I'd be looking to create so I had a good look around it.

I've just got to get some sort of plan in place now!

In article ,
"tim...." writes:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/2012 18:26, rmwebs wrote:
Hi all,



Where is this going to be installed? Have you bottomed out all the
Planning and Building regs issues?

If it's in his (rear/side) garden, I don't think that there are any issues
provided that he doesn't convert it into something that is intended to be
slept in.

There are quite a few, but I don't think most people take any notice.
Unless it's built of non-combustible materials, it must be at least
1 metre from the house and 1 metre from all the property boundaries.
PP required if total area of sheds and decking reaches 50% or more of
original garden size (or something like this).
Limits on height before requiring PP.
Limits on floor area before requiring BR.
Limits in conservation areas.
More I've forgotten.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

That's pretty much as I understood it too. Although I dont think people really pay attention to the 1 meter from boundary. In fact I think pretty much everyone's sheds are likely up against the fence

I plan on having a gap around it, Ideally I want it close to the boundary so it'll be right at the 1 meter point, giving plenty of room to get around it to do treatment.

I found a couble of photos (all-be-it a very tiny one) of the 'garden room' offered by the local company I previously mentioned, the only difference is that the one photoed has a double door but it was displayed with a single (which I'd rather have). The single-door model had a slightly larger window, and an additional window on the side.

http://www.millersgardenbuildings.com/images/BIGFontwell%2012x10.jpg
http://www.millersgardenbuildings.com/images/BIGfontwell.jpg

It was offered with either 'standard cladding' or 'logleg cladding'. Both images above have the logleg cladding, no idea what standard would be. I assume some form of low-quality wood tho.

What do you think? It looked like a pretty simple building, surely all I'd have to do is effectively make the 4 wall frames, the floor base and the roof frame and screw them together then board up the outside with cladding, and then do all the damp proofing and other inside stuff.

On 30/04/2012 21:21, rmwebs wrote:
Andrew Gabriel;2852951 Wrote:
In article ,
"tim...." writes:-

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...-
On 29/04/2012 18:26, rmwebs wrote:-
Hi all,

-

Where is this going to be installed? Have you bottomed out all the
Planning and Building regs issues?-

If it's in his (rear/side) garden, I don't think that there are any
issues
provided that he doesn't convert it into something that is intended to
be
slept in.-

There are quite a few, but I don't think most people take any notice.
Unless it's built of non-combustible materials, it must be at least
1 metre from the house and 1 metre from all the property boundaries.
PP required if total area of sheds and decking reaches 50% or more of
original garden size (or something like this).
Limits on height before requiring PP.
Limits on floor area before requiring BR.
Limits in conservation areas.
More I've forgotten.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

That's pretty much as I understood it too. Although I dont think people
really pay attention to the 1 meter from boundary. In fact I think
pretty much everyone's sheds are likely up against the fence

I plan on having a gap around it, Ideally I want it close to the
boundary so it'll be right at the 1 meter point, giving plenty of room
to get around it to do treatment.

I found a couble of photos (all-be-it a very tiny one) of the 'garden
room' offered by the local company I previously mentioned, the only
difference is that the one photoed has a double door but it was
displayed with a single (which I'd rather have). The single-door model
had a slightly larger window, and an additional window on the side.

http://www.millersgardenbuildings.com/images/BIGFontwell%2012x10.jpg
http://www.millersgardenbuildings.com/images/BIGfontwell.jpg

It was offered with either 'standard cladding' or 'logleg cladding'.

Loglap perhaps?

Both images above have the logleg cladding, no idea what standard would
be. I assume some form of low-quality wood tho.

Feather edge or shiplap presumably...

What do you think? It looked like a pretty simple building, surely all
I'd have to do is effectively make the 4 wall frames, the floor base and
the roof frame and screw them together then board up the outside with
cladding, and then do all the damp proofing and other inside stuff.

Yup...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 29/04/2012 18:26, rmwebs wrote:

I'm basically planning on buying a shed, and converting it to an office.
I know that its likely cheaper to just build the whole thing yourself,

Its often more expensive to build yourself, but usually because you
would not pare down the material specs to the same minimal levels as
used by commercial producers.

but I really am not confident that I could do that, so have decided to
go down the conversion route.

It not actually that difficult to diy...

I'd like to start with something like this: 'Suvi 212 Log Cabin -
Summerhouses& Log Cabins - Garden Sheds& Buildings -Gardens - Wickes'
(http://www.wickes.co.uk/suvi-212-log-cabin/invt/218595/) or this:
http://tinyurl.com/7a3radx

Which I'll then insulate, and basically I want the final finish to be
plaster-boarded internal walls, with a good thick insulation all around,
ad I'll be working in it year-round.

ok...

The annoying thing is that pretty much every 'high-street' shed is
really awful quality, and very expensive. However at this stage I'm not
sure I could undertake a self-designed/self-built one as I have never
done anything like this before.

Sounds a bit like the first workshop I did:

http://www.internode.co.uk/workshop/phase3.htm

I'm really looking for some advice, mainly for the insulation and damp
proofing. From my understanding, if I take a box-standard shed like the
one linked to above, is the following correct?

1. Wrap the internal walls , roof and floor in a damp-proof material
such as celotex. (How do I go about venting this, and does the air vent
just need to go through the celotex, or all the way through the internal
plasterboard?)

Celotex are makers of a insulation product (well several in fact). They
specialise in PIR (Polyisocyanurate) Foam, which is a ridgid foam that
give very high insulation values. Often foil coated on one side or both
(for better radiant heat reflection and also as a vapour barrier).

You basically want a vapour barrier any place that warm moist air from
in the building could reach the cold fabric of the building. (where it
could condense and cause rot). You could either rely on the foil on the
insulation (and use a foil tape to cover all the joints), or could use a
plastic membrane like Visqueen sheet (cheap from a builders merchant)
which you could fix under the plasterboard.

The outside of the shed is unlikely to be airtight, so you could leave a
small gap between the cladding and the insulation to allow some airflow
on that side (to allow the cladding to dry on the inside).

If its for year round use you will also need to think about heating and
possibly cooling. A split unit air conditioner / heat pump might be the
solution, since it will heat, cool, and maintain a comfortable humidity.
Or for a less sophisticated solution, and extractor fan, and a wall
mounted fan heater.

2. Add battens as you normally would for a wall, get internal wiring in
place, so the electrician can then just hook it up to the shed's fuse
box (the electrician will be doing all the stuff he has to, but I'd be
ok putting the plug sockets in place ready for him)

The wiring can be the last bit done before the plasterboard goes on...
you can cut a channel in the insulation and sit it in that such that
when the plasterboard goes on, the wires are in contact with the
plasterboard (this will allow them to shed heat better, and hence not
require such a significant de-rating due to the effects of being
insulated. (alternatively you could surface wire after the PB - depends
on how neat you want it)

3. Insulate the walls (at this stage I have no idea what type of
insulation I should be using. Advice?

PIR foam as above. 50mm of it will give you the same performance as
100mm of rockwool. Its also rigid enough that you can do away without
extra battens in many cases - screwing through the PB, then the
insulation and into the existing studs.

4. Add plasterboards over insulation and fix in place.

5. Roof: Add insulation (again, no idea what type) followed by
plasterboards

Same as the walls if you are going to do the underside of the apex
against the rafters. If installing a level ceiling, then you could layer
rockwool etc on top of that like a traditional loft. (only reall
advantage of that would be its slightly cheaper)

6. Floor: Add internal batters, with insulation, followed by ply (or
should it be mdf?) flooring, which will be covered with laminate at the
end.

No need for battens, the insulation will be not crush under the sheet
materials. 18mm WBP ply would be strong and durable.

7. Door: Once the floor has (I assume) been rased due to the internal
insulation, I'm guessing a few inches will need lopping off the bottom.

You need to be careful here, in that if you trim the bottom of the door,
you may also need to raise the threshold so that it still reaches it!

Depending on how the floor is done you could insulate under the whole
shed first.

Also note that heatloss through the floor will be less than elsewhere,
so you could use thinner insulating boards. It would also be worth
looking at Marmox boards - those are probably strong enough that you
could dispense with the wood layer on top, and put your laminate down
directly.

I could have this all majorly wrong so any advice would be appreciated
greatly. I've been searching high and low for some decent info, but a
lot of the places only cover US sheds, and while there are a few
similarities, the construction of them seems very different with a 'farm
barn' style that we dont really have in the UK.

You seem to be pretty much on the right track anyway...

Getting back onto the subject of a completely custom / diy one. I think
the biggest problems I have is A) the plans and B) the roof. I'd have no
idea how to plan it, and I'd be worried that the roof wouldn't be strong
enough.

If you can build a stud wall, then you can make a shed.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Stud_wall

Various shed ideas:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Shed

What size is this going to be? Unless its going to be massive then its
unlikely to be an issue. Even 2x2 framing is likely to take the roof
weight and that of a adult climbing on it in most typical shed sizes.

I helped a former neighbour re-roof his garage once... that had 4x2
across the (nearly) 3m span on a flat roof and that was more than adequate.

Failing that, if in doubt, post your design ideas here, since plenty of
us have built similar things and will be able to comment from experience.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

rmwebs wrote:
I'd be ok putting the plug sockets in place ready for him)

When discussing them in earshot of an electrician, be sure to call
them "sockets", then at least you'll get a brownie point for
starting off appearing to know what you're talking about.

There are things called plugs.

There are things called sockets.
(One more brownie point for calling them socket outlets, but
that's not essential)

There are no such things as plug sockets.

JGH