On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 11:04:25 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:59:30 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 26 August 2019 13:25:36 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

I think anything that can run apcupsd can be networked easily to the box
controlling the UPS. Remakably painless. It's only worth using NUT
(which can allegedly follow an apcupsd server) if there's something like
a NAS you can't install apcupsd on. NUT is less painless.

sounds like a pain in the ....

So how would you do it, assuming you understood why it might be a
'good idea' to have say 3 machines (but only) on one UPS?

I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.
Rest snipped


NT

On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:46:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 11:04:25 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:59:30 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 26 August 2019 13:25:36 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

I think anything that can run apcupsd can be networked easily to the box
controlling the UPS. Remakably painless. It's only worth using NUT
(which can allegedly follow an apcupsd server) if there's something like
a NAS you can't install apcupsd on. NUT is less painless.

sounds like a pain in the ....

So how would you do it, assuming you understood why it might be a
'good idea' to have say 3 machines (but only) on one UPS?

I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.

Ah, sorry. I got my 5 year old nephew to read your insightful and
humorous reply and he explained why it was 'funny'. ;-)

I didn't realise you were American ... ?

Cheers, T i m

On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 23:25:38 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:46:55 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 11:04:25 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:59:30 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 26 August 2019 13:25:36 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

I think anything that can run apcupsd can be networked easily to the box
controlling the UPS. Remakably painless. It's only worth using NUT
(which can allegedly follow an apcupsd server) if there's something like
a NAS you can't install apcupsd on. NUT is less painless.

sounds like a pain in the ....

So how would you do it, assuming you understood why it might be a
'good idea' to have say 3 machines (but only) on one UPS?

I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.

Ah, sorry. I got my 5 year old nephew to read your insightful and
humorous reply and he explained why it was 'funny'. ;-)

I didn't realise you were American ... ?

Cheers, T i m

you're making no sense.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 23:36:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 23:25:38 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:46:55 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 11:04:25 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:59:30 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 26 August 2019 13:25:36 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

I think anything that can run apcupsd can be networked easily to the box
controlling the UPS. Remakably painless. It's only worth using NUT
(which can allegedly follow an apcupsd server) if there's something like
a NAS you can't install apcupsd on. NUT is less painless.

sounds like a pain in the ....

So how would you do it, assuming you understood why it might be a
'good idea' to have say 3 machines (but only) on one UPS?

I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.

Ah, sorry. I got my 5 year old nephew to read your insightful and
humorous reply and he explained why it was 'funny'. ;-)

I didn't realise you were American ... ?


you're making no sense.

How ironic. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 07:36:51 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 23:25:38 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:46:55 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 11:04:25 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:59:30 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 26 August 2019 13:25:36 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

I think anything that can run apcupsd can be networked easily to the box
controlling the UPS. Remakably painless. It's only worth using NUT
(which can allegedly follow an apcupsd server) if there's something like
a NAS you can't install apcupsd on. NUT is less painless.

sounds like a pain in the ....

So how would you do it, assuming you understood why it might be a
'good idea' to have say 3 machines (but only) on one UPS?

I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.

Ah, sorry. I got my 5 year old nephew to read your insightful and
humorous reply and he explained why it was 'funny'. ;-)

I didn't realise you were American ... ?

Cheers, T i m

you're making no sense.

Obviously someone is using the wrong side of their brain.

On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 09:25:52 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 23:36:49 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 23:25:38 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:46:55 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 11:04:25 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:59:30 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 26 August 2019 13:25:36 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

I think anything that can run apcupsd can be networked easily to the box
controlling the UPS. Remakably painless. It's only worth using NUT
(which can allegedly follow an apcupsd server) if there's something like
a NAS you can't install apcupsd on. NUT is less painless.

sounds like a pain in the ....

So how would you do it, assuming you understood why it might be a
'good idea' to have say 3 machines (but only) on one UPS?

I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.

Ah, sorry. I got my 5 year old nephew to read your insightful and
humorous reply and he explained why it was 'funny'. ;-)

I didn't realise you were American ... ?


you're making no sense.

How ironic. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

not really. You missed it completely, your ego won't let you admit it & that is pretty obvious to anyone that read it. I'm done. Come back with some diy content.

On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 01:47:11 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

NUT is less painless.

sounds like a pain in the ....

So how would you do it, assuming you understood why it might be a
'good idea' to have say 3 machines (but only) on one UPS?

I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.

Ah, sorry. I got my 5 year old nephew to read your insightful and
humorous reply and he explained why it was 'funny'. ;-)

I didn't realise you were American ... ?


you're making no sense.

How ironic. ;-)


not really.

Yup really.

You missed it completely,

Where 'it' was a playground level 'joke' using an Americanism. Yes I
did.

your ego won't let you admit it

I did when it was raised and I did again just then?

& that is pretty obvious to anyone that read it.

You could be right. Not sure how many bothered though?

I'm done.

Is that another joke? It sounds like one?

Come back with some diy content.

Who says?

BTW, it was 'd-i-y content' till you threw in yer playground /
American 'joke'. Please don't (bother to) do it again, or only come
back when it's actually funny (to an adult). ;-)

Now, if the UPS software was called 'BALL' or 'BOLOX' then *maybe*
your 'joke' would have actually been funny (again, only to under 5's
possibly). weg

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 08:38:16 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 07:36:51 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 23:25:38 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:46:55 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 11:04:25 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:59:30 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 26 August 2019 13:25:36 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

I think anything that can run apcupsd can be networked easily to the box
controlling the UPS. Remakably painless. It's only worth using NUT
(which can allegedly follow an apcupsd server) if there's something like
a NAS you can't install apcupsd on. NUT is less painless.

sounds like a pain in the ....

So how would you do it, assuming you understood why it might be a
'good idea' to have say 3 machines (but only) on one UPS?

I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.

Ah, sorry. I got my 5 year old nephew to read your insightful and
humorous reply and he explained why it was 'funny'. ;-)

I didn't realise you were American ... ?

Cheers, T i m

you're making no sense.

Obviously someone is using the wrong side of their brain.

In this (and only on this sort of thing *ever*) you are sort right.

I was having a serious / technical discussion about UPS monitoring
software and NT jumped in with something that wasn't funny (to me
anyway, even if I had got that is was supposed to be) and it's quite
likely that NT would have found configuring APCUPSD or NUT 'a pain'
and so I responded to his comment literally.

So, I did allow my RBD to guide my response when I should have used
some LBD to 'study' the scenario closer (but I wouldn't have been
bothered to etc).

But well done to you for actually getting how L/RBD might impact how
someone might interpret something (rather than your normal completely
abstract weirdo BS).

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 25 Aug 2019 14:50:32 +0100, Scott wrote:

I was watching an item on TV about use of batteries to balance the
national grid. I have also heard it said that the supply is likely to
become less reliable with increased dependence on renewables.

I have always assumed that an uninterruptible power supply must be
energy inefficient for the same reasons as stand-by uses electricity.
Is this a correct assumption or does a UPS not consume any electricity
at all unless it is brought into use?

As an aside, could a power cut ever damage a modern computer (say if
you happened to be installing an update or defragmenting a disc when
it happened)?

I've had files corrupted which were being written to when a powercut occurred. Therefore I got a UPS and have never experienced the same again. I then realised since the UPS has much more output than the computer needed, I could run my lighting circuit off it aswell. My LED bulbs now last 5 years instead of 6 months. It not only removes spikes, surges, and brownouts, but it will adjust the voltage when it's wrong.

On Thursday, 29 August 2019 11:03:36 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 08:38:16 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 07:36:51 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 23:25:38 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:46:55 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 11:04:25 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:59:30 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 26 August 2019 13:25:36 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

I think anything that can run apcupsd can be networked easily to the box
controlling the UPS. Remakably painless. It's only worth using NUT
(which can allegedly follow an apcupsd server) if there's something like
a NAS you can't install apcupsd on. NUT is less painless.

sounds like a pain in the ....

So how would you do it, assuming you understood why it might be a
'good idea' to have say 3 machines (but only) on one UPS?

I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.

Ah, sorry. I got my 5 year old nephew to read your insightful and
humorous reply and he explained why it was 'funny'. ;-)

I didn't realise you were American ... ?

Cheers, T i m

you're making no sense.

Obviously someone is using the wrong side of their brain.

In this (and only on this sort of thing *ever*) you are sort right.

and not sort left, I've seen that function somewhere.....
a bit like shift left or shift right.

I was having a serious / technical discussion about UPS monitoring
software and NT jumped in with something that wasn't funny (to me
anyway, even if I had got that is was supposed to be) and it's quite
likely that NT would have found configuring APCUPSD or NUT 'a pain'
and so I responded to his comment literally.

Well I was reading it, although not having or much experience of such systems,
although we did have a fire here a couple of years ago when the air con failed
and the UPS overheated and set fire to a room in the library and some servers got damaged.



So, I did allow my RBD to guide my response

I tghought that was a sleep dis-order.

when I should have used
some LBD to 'study' the scenario closer (but I wouldn't have been
bothered to etc).

I'm not sure how wearing a little black dress would help but each to his/her own of course.



But well done to you for actually getting how L/RBD might impact how
someone might interpret something

Happens here all the time some don't realise what's happening or whether it is or not.


(rather than your normal completely
abstract weirdo BS).

From your POV you mean, that was another point I was making.


you're making no sense.

and trying to work out whether you mean someone isn't making sense or where they talking nonsense.

I did see the bit about UPS to possibley mean the postal service or perhaps the unique selling point typo.



Cheers, T i m

On Thursday, 29 August 2019 10:52:39 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 01:47:11 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

NUT is less painless.

sounds like a pain in the ....

So how would you do it, assuming you understood why it might be a
'good idea' to have say 3 machines (but only) on one UPS?

I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.

Ah, sorry. I got my 5 year old nephew to read your insightful and
humorous reply and he explained why it was 'funny'. ;-)

I didn't realise you were American ... ?


you're making no sense.

How ironic. ;-)


not really.

Yup really.

You missed it completely,

Where 'it' was a playground level 'joke' using an Americanism. Yes I
did.

your ego won't let you admit it

I did when it was raised and I did again just then?

& that is pretty obvious to anyone that read it.

You could be right. Not sure how many bothered though?

I'm done.

Is that another joke? It sounds like one?

Come back with some diy content.

Who says?

BTW, it was 'd-i-y content' till you threw in yer playground /
American 'joke'. Please don't (bother to) do it again, or only come
back when it's actually funny (to an adult). ;-)

Now, if the UPS software was called 'BALL' or 'BOLOX' then *maybe*
your 'joke' would have actually been funny (again, only to under 5's
possibly). weg

Cheers, T i m

oh dear

wrote:

On Thursday, 29 August 2019 10:52:39 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 01:47:11 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

NUT is less painless.

sounds like a pain in the ....

So how would you do it, assuming you understood why it might be a
'good idea' to have say 3 machines (but only) on one UPS?

I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.

Ah, sorry. I got my 5 year old nephew to read your insightful and
humorous reply and he explained why it was 'funny'. ;-)

I didn't realise you were American ... ?


you're making no sense.

How ironic. ;-)


not really.

Yup really.

You missed it completely,

Where 'it' was a playground level 'joke' using an Americanism. Yes I
did.

your ego won't let you admit it

I did when it was raised and I did again just then?

& that is pretty obvious to anyone that read it.

You could be right. Not sure how many bothered though?

I'm done.

Is that another joke? It sounds like one?

Come back with some diy content.

Who says?

BTW, it was 'd-i-y content' till you threw in yer playground /
American 'joke'. Please don't (bother to) do it again, or only come
back when it's actually funny (to an adult). ;-)

Now, if the UPS software was called 'BALL' or 'BOLOX' then *maybe*
your 'joke' would have actually been funny (again, only to under 5's
possibly). weg

Cheers, T i m

oh dear

It is hard to see how people who believe themselves to be empathic can
be so obsessively rigid and intolerant in their thinking.

--

Roger Hayter

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:27:56 +0100, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

snip

Now, if the UPS software was called 'BALL' or 'BOLOX' then *maybe*
your 'joke' would have actually been funny (again, only to under 5's
possibly). weg


oh dear

It is hard to see how people who believe themselves to be empathic can
be so obsessively rigid and intolerant in their thinking.

I think you would have to actually consider the bigger picture(s)
before you could reach that conclusion Roger [1].

Let's review what happened in this case ...

I was having a serious discussion with the grown-ups g and NT jumped
in with his 'joke'.

I missed that it was a joke (for reasons explained previously) and
(we) continued with the serious discussion.

Then NT jumped back in because he was 'upset' (?) because I had missed
the fact that is was supposed to be 'humour' ...

"I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.
Rest snipped"

And when I explained I had missed it because I didn't find such levels
of humour ('mild' in his own words) funny, to the point where I might
miss it as such, he then goes on to accuse me of some sort of egotism,
in spite of the fact I'd acknowledged I'd missed it as humour from the
beginning?

And when he had first replied with the 'joke' I missed, I asked him
how he would do it and carefully explained how it could be used.

So, as is often the case we have cause and effect and which of us had
taken the subject off topic and then had the audacity to suggest he'd
only carry on if brought back on to d-i-y, especially when every one
of my replies contained smilies to indicate how 'light hearted' *I*
was being?

In the middle of a serious / useful discussion about UPS's:

You wrote: "NUT is less painless."

NT: "sounds like a pain in the ...."

A pain in the nut to me? [2]

ROTFL ..... Bwhahahahaha ....!!! weg

Oh NT, you crack me up .... rolls eyes

Better Roger? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[2] I didn't realise NT suffered with
monorchism? (Oh how we all laughed again ...) ;-)

[1] For nearly every other instance you might think you have found of
my 'intolerance' is more likely to be a balance of who might have a
right to impart themselves on someone else in a negative way. Like
smokers do to non smokers, cat owners do to non cat owners or a
minority of the electorate who can decide the future for the majority.
It is *they* who are demonstrating a lack of consideration and empathy
to others, not those forced to put up with it.

On Friday, 30 August 2019 10:22:06 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:27:56 +0100, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

snip

Now, if the UPS software was called 'BALL' or 'BOLOX' then *maybe*
your 'joke' would have actually been funny (again, only to under 5's
possibly). weg


oh dear

It is hard to see how people who believe themselves to be empathic can
be so obsessively rigid and intolerant in their thinking.

I think you would have to actually consider the bigger picture(s)
before you could reach that conclusion Roger [1].

Let's review what happened in this case ...

I was having a serious discussion with the grown-ups g and NT jumped
in with his 'joke'.

I missed that it was a joke (for reasons explained previously) and
(we) continued with the serious discussion.

Then NT jumped back in because he was 'upset' (?) because I had missed
the fact that is was supposed to be 'humour' ...

"I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.
Rest snipped"

And when I explained I had missed it because I didn't find such levels
of humour ('mild' in his own words) funny, to the point where I might
miss it as such, he then goes on to accuse me of some sort of egotism,
in spite of the fact I'd acknowledged I'd missed it as humour from the
beginning?

And when he had first replied with the 'joke' I missed, I asked him
how he would do it and carefully explained how it could be used.

So, as is often the case we have cause and effect and which of us had
taken the subject off topic and then had the audacity to suggest he'd
only carry on if brought back on to d-i-y, especially when every one
of my replies contained smilies to indicate how 'light hearted' *I*
was being?

In the middle of a serious / useful discussion about UPS's:

You wrote: "NUT is less painless."

NT: "sounds like a pain in the ...."

A pain in the nut to me? [2]

ROTFL ..... Bwhahahahaha ....!!! weg

Oh NT, you crack me up .... rolls eyes

Better Roger? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[2] I didn't realise NT suffered with
monorchism? (Oh how we all laughed again ...) ;-)

[1] For nearly every other instance you might think you have found of
my 'intolerance' is more likely to be a balance of who might have a
right to impart themselves on someone else in a negative way. Like
smokers do to non smokers, cat owners do to non cat owners or a
minority of the electorate who can decide the future for the majority.
It is *they* who are demonstrating a lack of consideration and empathy
to others, not those forced to put up with it.

rewriting history won't cut it.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 02:39:03 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, 30 August 2019 10:22:06 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:27:56 +0100, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

snip

Now, if the UPS software was called 'BALL' or 'BOLOX' then *maybe*
your 'joke' would have actually been funny (again, only to under 5's
possibly). weg


oh dear

It is hard to see how people who believe themselves to be empathic can
be so obsessively rigid and intolerant in their thinking.

I think you would have to actually consider the bigger picture(s)
before you could reach that conclusion Roger [1].

Let's review what happened in this case ...

I was having a serious discussion with the grown-ups g and NT jumped
in with his 'joke'.

I missed that it was a joke (for reasons explained previously) and
(we) continued with the serious discussion.

Then NT jumped back in because he was 'upset' (?) because I had missed
the fact that is was supposed to be 'humour' ...

"I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.
Rest snipped"

And when I explained I had missed it because I didn't find such levels
of humour ('mild' in his own words) funny, to the point where I might
miss it as such, he then goes on to accuse me of some sort of egotism,
in spite of the fact I'd acknowledged I'd missed it as humour from the
beginning?

And when he had first replied with the 'joke' I missed, I asked him
how he would do it and carefully explained how it could be used.

So, as is often the case we have cause and effect and which of us had
taken the subject off topic and then had the audacity to suggest he'd
only carry on if brought back on to d-i-y, especially when every one
of my replies contained smilies to indicate how 'light hearted' *I*
was being?

In the middle of a serious / useful discussion about UPS's:

You wrote: "NUT is less painless."

NT: "sounds like a pain in the ...."

A pain in the nut to me? [2]

ROTFL ..... Bwhahahahaha ....!!! weg

Oh NT, you crack me up .... rolls eyes

Better Roger? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[2] I didn't realise NT suffered with
monorchism? (Oh how we all laughed again ...) ;-)

[1] For nearly every other instance you might think you have found of
my 'intolerance' is more likely to be a balance of who might have a
right to impart themselves on someone else in a negative way. Like
smokers do to non smokers, cat owners do to non cat owners or a
minority of the electorate who can decide the future for the majority.
It is *they* who are demonstrating a lack of consideration and empathy
to others, not those forced to put up with it.

rewriting history won't cut it.

It doesn't need to princess, it's there for everyone to see.

On that, maybe you need to grow a pair. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:


snip

[1] For nearly every other instance you might think you have found of
my 'intolerance' is more likely to be a balance of who might have a
right to impart themselves on someone else in a negative way. Like
smokers do to non smokers, cat owners do to non cat owners or a
minority of the electorate who can decide the future for the majority.
It is *they* who are demonstrating a lack of consideration and empathy
to others, not those forced to put up with it.

Sounds like the sort of rationalisation that concentration camp guards
had to do every morning. You seem to have difficulty in seeing these
offenders as actually people like yourself. This is fair enough, but
to then claim a special ability to empathise is bizarre.

--

Roger Hayter

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 11:09:33 +0100, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

T i m wrote:


snip

[1] For nearly every other instance you might think you have found of
my 'intolerance' is more likely to be a balance of who might have a
right to impart themselves on someone else in a negative way. Like
smokers do to non smokers, cat owners do to non cat owners or a
minority of the electorate who can decide the future for the majority.
It is *they* who are demonstrating a lack of consideration and empathy
to others, not those forced to put up with it.

Sounds like the sort of rationalisation that concentration camp guards
had to do every morning.

How strange (and brings us very close to activating Godwin's law g).

You seem to have difficulty in seeing these
offenders as actually people like yourself.

I do? Ok, playing along, could you give me an example of how / where
you have seem me being an 'offender' in the same way as say smokers or
cat owners? In a real tangible way I mean, not offending someone's
sensibilities with the truth on the Internet?

This is fair enough, but
to then claim a special ability to empathise is bizarre.

I have never made any such claim Roger and you suggesting such further
emphases (to me anyway) that you still aren't willing or able to see
the bigger picture?

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:21:20 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:
snip

I've had files corrupted which were being written to when a powercut occurred. Therefore I got a UPS and have never experienced the same again. I then realised since the UPS has much more output than the computer needed, I could run my lighting circuit off it aswell. My LED bulbs now last 5 years instead of 6 months. It not only removes spikes, surges, and brownouts, but it will adjust the voltage when it's wrong.

Can that not depend on the UPS though? Some do provide some passive
filtering but only produce any output themselves when the power fails
('Offline').

Others are more as you describe where they are maintaining the output
themselves all the time and so can do as you say ('Online').

I believe there are pros and cons to both types. Offline consume less
energy as all they need to do is keep the battery trickle charged and
switch to the inverter output when required. There can be a switchover
delay and some equipment can be sensitive to this.

So, given that many old UPS's don't produce a very clean (non sine
wave) output, Offline UPS's can be better long term as they only
subject the equipment to such when they are called for (the equipment
running directly from the mains till that happens).

Later UPS's may produce a cleaner, more sinusoidal output etc.

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:21:20 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:
snip

I've had files corrupted which were being written to when a powercut
occurred. Therefore I got a UPS and have never experienced the same
again. I then realised since the UPS has much more output than the
computer needed, I could run my lighting circuit off it aswell. My LED
bulbs now last 5 years instead of 6 months. It not only removes spikes,
surges, and brownouts, but it will adjust the voltage when it's wrong.

I'm considering getting a UPS for my computers, router, Raspberry Pi etc
because our village gets an inordinately large number of supply
interruptions: I've logged 5 in the last week. Typically they only last a
couple of seconds, but that is enough to make computers reboot.

I've complained to phone number 105 (for Northern Powergrid) and been told
that it's due to "work on the HV supply", "bird strike on a cable", "tree
falling on a cable" and "lightning strike" (the last even when there's not
been a storm in the area). I think it's a random excuse generator. If "bird
strike" and "falling tree" are genuine, they must be *very* unlucky for
there to be 5 power cuts since 24 August - plus all the ones before I
started keeping a note of them.

Next time I'll ask to speak to someone more senior who can tell me *why* our
village is affected so badly by power interruptions, and what Northern
Powergrid are doing to make their system more resilient to such faults.

So far I've been very lucky to avoid corrupted files, because on one
occasion I was defragging a hard disc at the time the power went off, but
being NTFS it was more resilient to corruption, though the first thing I do
after each power cut is "chkdsk /f c:" for each drive letter just in case
(and I've never yet seen it say that it has had to correct any errors).

First rule of any UPS is to check periodically that the battery is holding
its charge, and to keep the battery charged. My wife bought a UPS when she
bought a PC about 10 years ago, and we never got round to connecting or
testing the UPS for about 18 months, by which time it was out of warranty.
When I tried it, I found that the battery would not supply AC mains even for
a 60 W bulb for more than about 2 seconds :-( We should have kept it
plugged in to keep the battery charged, and tested its output every so often
by switching off the input - that would have detected dead-on-arrival and
premature failure.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 13:10:42 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:21:20 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:
snip

I've had files corrupted which were being written to when a powercut
occurred. Therefore I got a UPS and have never experienced the same
again. I then realised since the UPS has much more output than the
computer needed, I could run my lighting circuit off it aswell. My LED
bulbs now last 5 years instead of 6 months. It not only removes spikes,
surges, and brownouts, but it will adjust the voltage when it's wrong.

I'm considering getting a UPS for my computers, router, Raspberry Pi etc
because our village gets an inordinately large number of supply
interruptions: I've logged 5 in the last week. Typically they only last a
couple of seconds, but that is enough to make computers reboot.

Dad was given one by his local electricity supplier because they were
repeatedly interrupting his supply and when working from home that was
costing / risking his business.

I've complained to phone number 105 (for Northern Powergrid) and been told
that it's due to "work on the HV supply", "bird strike on a cable", "tree
falling on a cable" and "lightning strike" (the last even when there's not
been a storm in the area). I think it's a random excuse generator. If "bird
strike" and "falling tree" are genuine, they must be *very* unlucky for
there to be 5 power cuts since 24 August - plus all the ones before I
started keeping a note of them.

Great.

Next time I'll ask to speak to someone more senior who can tell me *why* our
village is affected so badly by power interruptions, and what Northern
Powergrid are doing to make their system more resilient to such faults.

I'd guess the answer to that might be 'everything we can sir' =
'nothing'.

So far I've been very lucky to avoid corrupted files, because on one
occasion I was defragging a hard disc at the time the power went off, but
being NTFS it was more resilient to corruption, though the first thing I do
after each power cut is "chkdsk /f c:" for each drive letter just in case
(and I've never yet seen it say that it has had to correct any errors).

As you say, if a FS is 'journaled (I think they call it) then it
should be reasonably robust.

First rule of any UPS is to check periodically that the battery is holding
its charge, and to keep the battery charged. My wife bought a UPS when she
bought a PC about 10 years ago, and we never got round to connecting or
testing the UPS for about 18 months, by which time it was out of warranty.

And flatter than a pancake I suspect?

When I tried it, I found that the battery would not supply AC mains even for
a 60 W bulb for more than about 2 seconds :-( We should have kept it
plugged in to keep the battery charged, and tested its output every so often
by switching off the input - that would have detected dead-on-arrival and
premature failure.

Quite, but isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. ;-(

It's the same thing as when I go to one of my motorbikes and find the
battery flat ruined. 'If only I had:

Taken the battery off, brought it inside and kept it on charge.

Hooked it up to a suitable solar trickle charger.

Rigged up an external socket for a temporary charger.

Run the LV side of an automatic charger out to the bike(s) ...

Ridden the bikes more frequently ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

In article , NY wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:21:20 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote: snip

I've had files corrupted which were being written to when a powercut
occurred. Therefore I got a UPS and have never experienced the same
again. I then realised since the UPS has much more output than the
computer needed, I could run my lighting circuit off it aswell. My LED
bulbs now last 5 years instead of 6 months. It not only removes
spikes, surges, and brownouts, but it will adjust the voltage when
it's wrong.

I'm considering getting a UPS for my computers, router, Raspberry Pi etc
because our village gets an inordinately large number of supply
interruptions: I've logged 5 in the last week. Typically they only last a
couple of seconds, but that is enough to make computers reboot.

I've complained to phone number 105 (for Northern Powergrid) and been
told that it's due to "work on the HV supply", "bird strike on a cable",
"tree falling on a cable" and "lightning strike" (the last even when
there's not been a storm in the area). I think it's a random excuse
generator. If "bird strike" and "falling tree" are genuine, they must be
*very* unlucky for there to be 5 power cuts since 24 August - plus all
the ones before I started keeping a note of them.

Next time I'll ask to speak to someone more senior who can tell me *why*
our village is affected so badly by power interruptions, and what
Northern Powergrid are doing to make their system more resilient to such
faults.

So far I've been very lucky to avoid corrupted files, because on one
occasion I was defragging a hard disc at the time the power went off, but
being NTFS it was more resilient to corruption, though the first thing I
do after each power cut is "chkdsk /f c:" for each drive letter just in
case (and I've never yet seen it say that it has had to correct any
errors).

First rule of any UPS is to check periodically that the battery is
holding its charge, and to keep the battery charged. My wife bought a
UPS when she bought a PC about 10 years ago, and we never got round to
connecting or testing the UPS for about 18 months, by which time it was
out of warranty. When I tried it, I found that the battery would not
supply AC mains even for a 60 W bulb for more than about 2 seconds :-(
We should have kept it plugged in to keep the battery charged, and
tested its output every so often by switching off the input - that would
have detected dead-on-arrival and premature failure.

My UPS - an ebay purchace - is an APC one and it self-tests its battery.

Actually I've got 2; one for my desk computer monitor and a small one form
the incoming FTTC router.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"T i m" wrote in message
...
First rule of any UPS is to check periodically that the battery is holding
its charge, and to keep the battery charged. My wife bought a UPS when she
bought a PC about 10 years ago, and we never got round to connecting or
testing the UPS for about 18 months, by which time it was out of warranty.

And flatter than a pancake I suspect?

I think the best analogy would be a bucket with a huge hole in the bottom so
it won't hold any water.


With hindsight we should have kept the UPS and bought a new battery for it,
rather than chucking the whole thing in the skip. But then that may have
been money down the drain if the problem was a faulty charging circuit or a
faulty DC-to-AC inverter.

If I'd still had my oscilloscope I'd have looked at the output to see what
shape of waveform was being generated and how it varied as load was applied.
But that had gone to the skip a few years earlier as I never used it - and
it was bloody big and heavy to store in the loft. I remember buying it from
a back-street Army surplus shop somewhere near Cemetery Junction in Reading
soon after I got my first job.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 13:56:09 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
First rule of any UPS is to check periodically that the battery is holding
its charge, and to keep the battery charged. My wife bought a UPS when she
bought a PC about 10 years ago, and we never got round to connecting or
testing the UPS for about 18 months, by which time it was out of warranty.

And flatter than a pancake I suspect?

I think the best analogy would be a bucket with a huge hole in the bottom so
it won't hold any water.

That also works. ;-)

With hindsight we should have kept the UPS and bought a new battery for it,
rather than chucking the whole thing in the skip.

But why ... ;-(

I've had to partly disassemble a UPS before to get the swollen /
corroded batteries out and the UPS itself has always been fine. ;-(

But then that may have
been money down the drain if the problem was a faulty charging circuit or a
faulty DC-to-AC inverter.

True, but nothing you couldn't have tested initially with just a
voltmeter?

If I'd still had my oscilloscope I'd have looked at the output to see what
shape of waveform was being generated and how it varied as load was applied.

Well, that could have been step two (after proving it was working in
general) and if it worked then I'd suspected it would do what it was
supposed to do? Nothing wrong with making sure of course.

But that had gone to the skip a few years earlier as I never used it - and
it was bloody big and heavy to store in the loft.

I have bought several second hand UPS's very cheap because they were
fitted with known dead batteries because I can usually cover the cost
of the UPS with the scrap value of the batteries. ;-)

I remember buying it from
a back-street Army surplus shop somewhere near Cemetery Junction in Reading
soon after I got my first job.

Not something I would expect to see in such a place.

Cheers, T i m

"charles" wrote in message
...

My UPS - an ebay purchace - is an APC one and it self-tests its battery.

Actually I've got 2; one for my desk computer monitor and a small one form
the incoming FTTC router.

Ours was an APC - I think it was 700 VA. I've no idea how long it was
*supposed* to power a computer for - presumably at least long enough to
trigger and complete an orderly shutdown of the OS. In my case, the answer
was "a few microseconds for a 60 W load" :-(

Annoyingly, my router and computer are in separate rooms so I'd need two
UPSes like you. Hopefully any modern UPS is able to provide a glitch-free
transition from mains to battery, otherwise it's no benefit because the
computer will still crash during the changeover, even if it then comes back
for while until the battery goes flat or the mains comes back.

In our case, almost every power interruption has been for about 5 seconds -
I think only one was for as long as 5 minutes: just long enough to feel my
way in the pitch dark from my study through the lounge and kitchen to the
bedroom where I knew there was a torch. And just as I got there and turned
it on, the power came back.

In article , NY wrote:
"charles" wrote in message
...

My UPS - an ebay purchace - is an APC one and it self-tests its battery.

Actually I've got 2; one for my desk computer monitor and a small one
form the incoming FTTC router.

Ours was an APC - I think it was 700 VA. I've no idea how long it was
*supposed* to power a computer for - presumably at least long enough to
trigger and complete an orderly shutdown of the OS. In my case, the
answer was "a few microseconds for a 60 W load" :-(

Annoyingly, my router and computer are in separate rooms so I'd need two
UPSes like you. Hopefully any modern UPS is able to provide a glitch-free
transition from mains to battery, otherwise it's no benefit because the
computer will still crash during the changeover, even if it then comes
back for while until the battery goes flat or the mains comes back.

In our case, almost every power interruption has been for about 5 seconds
- I think only one was for as long as 5 minutes: just long enough to
feel my way in the pitch dark from my study through the lounge and
kitchen to the bedroom where I knew there was a torch. And just as I got
there and turned it on, the power came back.

my original reason for getting a UPS was because we used to get glitches
overnight which usually frightened my old ADSL router in going into lockout.
Since it wasn't easily accessible, rebooting it was tedious.
I continue to use a UPS since I statrted doing DTP work for others, I don't
want to have to redo 5 minutes work if everything died.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"T i m" wrote in message
...

But then that may have been money down the drain if the problem was a
faulty charging circuit or a faulty DC-to-AC inverter.

True, but nothing you couldn't have tested initially with just a
voltmeter?

I did: something like 180 V RMS into a high-resistance load which dropped to
about 30 V with even a nominal load - I managed to find a 25 W cooker bulb
and lashed up a connection to it and even that caused the voltage to drop
immediately. I *think* (though it was a while ago and I may have forgotten)
the voltage returned to 180 when the load was removed (leaving just the
voltmeter) so it wasn't just that the battery was flattened. That's why I
wonder whether the inverter was shagged-out.

But I should have persisted with it... Ah well.


I remember buying it from
a back-street Army surplus shop somewhere near Cemetery Junction in
Reading
soon after I got my first job.

Not something I would expect to see in such a place.

They had all manner of surplus electronic kit from various places: TVs, tape
recorders, radios, record players. I even saw a broadcast-standard open-reel
video recorder of some strange format. Great big appliances with big knobs
and valves or else circuit boards of discrete transistors - not an IC in
sight! I think the manual for my scope was dated 1968 so the technology
dated from then. I bet nowadays you can get a little oscilloscope adaptor
with USB output for recording and display on a PC. The shop was a real
Aladdin's cave of stuff - shelves full of things that most people probably
wouldn't even have been able to identify. It was a shop within a terrace of
houses - a real back-street "you'd never know it was there" place. That was
in the mid-80s; I doubt whether it's still there now.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:40:51 +0100, T i m wrote:

Can that not depend on the UPS though? Some do provide some passive
filtering but only produce any output themselves when the power fails
('Offline').

Others are more as you describe where they are maintaining the output
themselves all the time and so can do as you say ('Online').

No, there are online ones that adjust the output voltage to keep it in
spec. The APC SmartUPS series do that (I have three).

They electronically adjust the taps on a transformer (probably an
autotransformer, I've never looked) to trim over-high voltages and boost
low ones. If it goes too out of spec, then it'll switch to battery to
keep it going.

This is one of the reasons I use the UPSs - round here we seem to get a
lot of voltage fluctuations.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 14:02:26 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:40:51 +0100, T i m wrote:

Can that not depend on the UPS though? Some do provide some passive
filtering but only produce any output themselves when the power fails
('Offline').

Others are more as you describe where they are maintaining the output
themselves all the time and so can do as you say ('Online').

No, there are online ones that adjust the output voltage to keep it in
spec. The APC SmartUPS series do that (I have three).

They electronically adjust the taps on a transformer (probably an
autotransformer, I've never looked) to trim over-high voltages and boost
low ones. If it goes too out of spec, then it'll switch to battery to
keep it going.

This is one of the reasons I use the UPSs - round here we seem to get a
lot of voltage fluctuations.

Sorry, my first sentence should have said 'offline' of course. Runs with
the mains unless it goes way out of spec or fails, then uses battery.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article , NY wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message
...

But then that may have been money down the drain if the problem was a
faulty charging circuit or a faulty DC-to-AC inverter.

True, but nothing you couldn't have tested initially with just a
voltmeter?

I did: something like 180 V RMS into a high-resistance load which dropped
to about 30 V with even a nominal load - I managed to find a 25 W cooker
bulb and lashed up a connection to it and even that caused the voltage
to drop immediately. I *think* (though it was a while ago and I may have
forgotten) the voltage returned to 180 when the load was removed
(leaving just the voltmeter) so it wasn't just that the battery was
flattened. That's why I wonder whether the inverter was shagged-out.

But I should have persisted with it... Ah well.


I remember buying it from a back-street Army surplus shop somewhere
near Cemetery Junction in Reading soon after I got my first job.

Not something I would expect to see in such a place.

They had all manner of surplus electronic kit from various places: TVs,
tape recorders, radios, record players. I even saw a broadcast-standard
open-reel video recorder of some strange format. Great big appliances
with big knobs and valves or else circuit boards of discrete transistors
- not an IC in sight! I think the manual for my scope was dated 1968 so
the technology dated from then. I bet nowadays you can get a little
oscilloscope adaptor with USB output for recording and display on a PC.
The shop was a real Aladdin's cave of stuff - shelves full of things
that most people probably wouldn't even have been able to identify. It
was a shop within a terrace of houses - a real back-street "you'd never
know it was there" place. That was in the mid-80s; I doubt whether it's
still there now.

Stewart of Reading? If so, yes they are still around but have moved out of
town.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:40:51 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:21:20 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:
snip

I've had files corrupted which were being written to when a powercut occurred. Therefore I got a UPS and have never experienced the same again. I then realised since the UPS has much more output than the computer needed, I could run my lighting circuit off it aswell. My LED bulbs now last 5 years instead of 6 months. It not only removes spikes, surges, and brownouts, but it will adjust the voltage when it's wrong.

Can that not depend on the UPS though? Some do provide some passive
filtering but only produce any output themselves when the power fails
('Offline').

I have an APC Smart UPS 1500 (pretty old). I got it second hand with no batteries, then bought new batteries for it. It has LEDs to indicate what it's doing, and very often chops 10 or 20V off the mains as I have a very high mains voltage (the substation is over the road from me, and the power company won't do anything about it - they just quote some absurdly high legal allowances for tolerance - I've measured up to 267V). Sometimes an LED indicates "unacceptable mains" - not sure if that's outwith the voltage range it can buck or boost with the transformer, or whether it's fluctuating too much, but it then gives an output from the inverter while charging the battery from the dodgy mains at the same time.

Others are more as you describe where they are maintaining the output
themselves all the time and so can do as you say ('Online').

I believe there are pros and cons to both types. Offline consume less
energy as all they need to do is keep the battery trickle charged and
switch to the inverter output when required. There can be a switchover
delay and some equipment can be sensitive to this.

Protecting expensive equipment and/or files is far more important than a little power wastage, which will be given off as heat anyway so if the room needs heated you've lost nothing.

So, given that many old UPS's don't produce a very clean (non sine
wave) output, Offline UPS's can be better long term as they only
subject the equipment to such when they are called for (the equipment
running directly from the mains till that happens).

Later UPS's may produce a cleaner, more sinusoidal output etc.

Checking mine with a scope, it's a very clean sine wave of the right frequency, including under load.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 13:10:42 +0100, NY wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:21:20 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:
snip

I've had files corrupted which were being written to when a powercut
occurred. Therefore I got a UPS and have never experienced the same
again. I then realised since the UPS has much more output than the
computer needed, I could run my lighting circuit off it aswell. My LED
bulbs now last 5 years instead of 6 months. It not only removes spikes,
surges, and brownouts, but it will adjust the voltage when it's wrong.

I'm considering getting a UPS for my computers, router, Raspberry Pi etc
because our village gets an inordinately large number of supply
interruptions: I've logged 5 in the last week. Typically they only last a
couple of seconds, but that is enough to make computers reboot.

I've complained to phone number 105 (for Northern Powergrid) and been told
that it's due to "work on the HV supply", "bird strike on a cable", "tree
falling on a cable" and "lightning strike" (the last even when there's not
been a storm in the area). I think it's a random excuse generator. If "bird
strike" and "falling tree" are genuine, they must be *very* unlucky for
there to be 5 power cuts since 24 August - plus all the ones before I
started keeping a note of them.

What on earth is a "bird strike"? It would need to be a damn big bird to damage a power line. The only excuse I used to get when living in a remote area was "bull knocked over a pole".

Next time I'll ask to speak to someone more senior who can tell me *why* our
village is affected so badly by power interruptions, and what Northern
Powergrid are doing to make their system more resilient to such faults.

So far I've been very lucky to avoid corrupted files, because on one
occasion I was defragging a hard disc at the time the power went off, but
being NTFS it was more resilient to corruption, though the first thing I do
after each power cut is "chkdsk /f c:" for each drive letter just in case
(and I've never yet seen it say that it has had to correct any errors).

First rule of any UPS is to check periodically that the battery is holding
its charge, and to keep the battery charged.

Surely it does that itself?! Mine even has LEDs to indicate the battery charge level and a warning if it considers the battery nearing end of life.

My wife bought a UPS when she
bought a PC about 10 years ago, and we never got round to connecting or
testing the UPS for about 18 months, by which time it was out of warranty.
When I tried it, I found that the battery would not supply AC mains even for
a 60 W bulb for more than about 2 seconds :-( We should have kept it
plugged in to keep the battery charged, and tested its output every so often
by switching off the input - that would have detected dead-on-arrival and
premature failure.

Using mine with a battery like that produces a red LED with a battery crossed out symbol, meaning "replace battery".

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 13:51:21 +0100, charles wrote:

In article , NY wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:21:20 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote: snip

I've had files corrupted which were being written to when a powercut
occurred. Therefore I got a UPS and have never experienced the same
again. I then realised since the UPS has much more output than the
computer needed, I could run my lighting circuit off it aswell. My LED
bulbs now last 5 years instead of 6 months. It not only removes
spikes, surges, and brownouts, but it will adjust the voltage when
it's wrong.

I'm considering getting a UPS for my computers, router, Raspberry Pi etc
because our village gets an inordinately large number of supply
interruptions: I've logged 5 in the last week. Typically they only last a
couple of seconds, but that is enough to make computers reboot.

I've complained to phone number 105 (for Northern Powergrid) and been
told that it's due to "work on the HV supply", "bird strike on a cable",
"tree falling on a cable" and "lightning strike" (the last even when
there's not been a storm in the area). I think it's a random excuse
generator. If "bird strike" and "falling tree" are genuine, they must be
*very* unlucky for there to be 5 power cuts since 24 August - plus all
the ones before I started keeping a note of them.

Next time I'll ask to speak to someone more senior who can tell me *why*
our village is affected so badly by power interruptions, and what
Northern Powergrid are doing to make their system more resilient to such
faults.

So far I've been very lucky to avoid corrupted files, because on one
occasion I was defragging a hard disc at the time the power went off, but
being NTFS it was more resilient to corruption, though the first thing I
do after each power cut is "chkdsk /f c:" for each drive letter just in
case (and I've never yet seen it say that it has had to correct any
errors).

First rule of any UPS is to check periodically that the battery is
holding its charge, and to keep the battery charged. My wife bought a
UPS when she bought a PC about 10 years ago, and we never got round to
connecting or testing the UPS for about 18 months, by which time it was
out of warranty. When I tried it, I found that the battery would not
supply AC mains even for a 60 W bulb for more than about 2 seconds :-(
We should have kept it plugged in to keep the battery charged, and
tested its output every so often by switching off the input - that would
have detected dead-on-arrival and premature failure.

My UPS - an ebay purchace - is an APC one and it self-tests its battery.

Actually I've got 2; one for my desk computer monitor and a small one form
the incoming FTTC router.

They must be very small units. I have one which powers the lights for the whole house, a desktop computer, 5 monitors, a stereo, a router, and an inkjet printer. It's rated at 960W, 1500VA.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 13:36:56 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 13:10:42 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:21:20 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:
snip

I've had files corrupted which were being written to when a powercut
occurred. Therefore I got a UPS and have never experienced the same
again. I then realised since the UPS has much more output than the
computer needed, I could run my lighting circuit off it aswell. My LED
bulbs now last 5 years instead of 6 months. It not only removes spikes,
surges, and brownouts, but it will adjust the voltage when it's wrong.

I'm considering getting a UPS for my computers, router, Raspberry Pi etc
because our village gets an inordinately large number of supply
interruptions: I've logged 5 in the last week. Typically they only last a
couple of seconds, but that is enough to make computers reboot.

Dad was given one by his local electricity supplier because they were
repeatedly interrupting his supply and when working from home that was
costing / risking his business.

I've complained to phone number 105 (for Northern Powergrid) and been told
that it's due to "work on the HV supply", "bird strike on a cable", "tree
falling on a cable" and "lightning strike" (the last even when there's not
been a storm in the area). I think it's a random excuse generator. If "bird
strike" and "falling tree" are genuine, they must be *very* unlucky for
there to be 5 power cuts since 24 August - plus all the ones before I
started keeping a note of them.

Great.

Next time I'll ask to speak to someone more senior who can tell me *why* our
village is affected so badly by power interruptions, and what Northern
Powergrid are doing to make their system more resilient to such faults.

I'd guess the answer to that might be 'everything we can sir' =
'nothing'.

So far I've been very lucky to avoid corrupted files, because on one
occasion I was defragging a hard disc at the time the power went off, but
being NTFS it was more resilient to corruption, though the first thing I do
after each power cut is "chkdsk /f c:" for each drive letter just in case
(and I've never yet seen it say that it has had to correct any errors).

As you say, if a FS is 'journaled (I think they call it) then it
should be reasonably robust.

First rule of any UPS is to check periodically that the battery is holding
its charge, and to keep the battery charged. My wife bought a UPS when she
bought a PC about 10 years ago, and we never got round to connecting or
testing the UPS for about 18 months, by which time it was out of warranty.

And flatter than a pancake I suspect?

When I tried it, I found that the battery would not supply AC mains even for
a 60 W bulb for more than about 2 seconds :-( We should have kept it
plugged in to keep the battery charged, and tested its output every so often
by switching off the input - that would have detected dead-on-arrival and
premature failure.

Quite, but isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. ;-(

It's the same thing as when I go to one of my motorbikes and find the
battery flat ruined. 'If only I had:

Taken the battery off, brought it inside and kept it on charge.

Hooked it up to a suitable solar trickle charger.

Rigged up an external socket for a temporary charger.

Run the LV side of an automatic charger out to the bike(s) ...

Ridden the bikes more frequently ... ;-(

My car battery can go flat in one night if I don't charge it. I never found the problem. Even with every single fuse out it still does it. I've logged up to 5 amps being drawn from the battery using a logging multimeter. Yes it's a French car.

On Friday, 30 August 2019 10:59:38 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 02:39:03 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 30 August 2019 10:22:06 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:27:56 +0100, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

snip

Now, if the UPS software was called 'BALL' or 'BOLOX' then *maybe*
your 'joke' would have actually been funny (again, only to under 5's
possibly). weg


oh dear

It is hard to see how people who believe themselves to be empathic can
be so obsessively rigid and intolerant in their thinking.

I think you would have to actually consider the bigger picture(s)
before you could reach that conclusion Roger [1].

Let's review what happened in this case ...

I was having a serious discussion with the grown-ups g and NT jumped
in with his 'joke'.

I missed that it was a joke (for reasons explained previously) and
(we) continued with the serious discussion.

Then NT jumped back in because he was 'upset' (?) because I had missed
the fact that is was supposed to be 'humour' ...

"I take it you completely missed the moment of mild humour.
Rest snipped"

And when I explained I had missed it because I didn't find such levels
of humour ('mild' in his own words) funny, to the point where I might
miss it as such, he then goes on to accuse me of some sort of egotism,
in spite of the fact I'd acknowledged I'd missed it as humour from the
beginning?

And when he had first replied with the 'joke' I missed, I asked him
how he would do it and carefully explained how it could be used.

So, as is often the case we have cause and effect and which of us had
taken the subject off topic and then had the audacity to suggest he'd
only carry on if brought back on to d-i-y, especially when every one
of my replies contained smilies to indicate how 'light hearted' *I*
was being?

In the middle of a serious / useful discussion about UPS's:

You wrote: "NUT is less painless."

NT: "sounds like a pain in the ...."

A pain in the nut to me? [2]

ROTFL ..... Bwhahahahaha ....!!! weg

Oh NT, you crack me up .... rolls eyes

Better Roger? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[2] I didn't realise NT suffered with
monorchism? (Oh how we all laughed again ...) ;-)

[1] For nearly every other instance you might think you have found of
my 'intolerance' is more likely to be a balance of who might have a
right to impart themselves on someone else in a negative way. Like
smokers do to non smokers, cat owners do to non cat owners or a
minority of the electorate who can decide the future for the majority.
It is *they* who are demonstrating a lack of consideration and empathy
to others, not those forced to put up with it.

rewriting history won't cut it.

It doesn't need to princess, it's there for everyone to see.

On that, maybe you need to grow a pair. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

So you're dishonest about being dishonest and think abuse is the way to go. Mmkay. Or just well confused perhaps.

On Friday, 30 August 2019 11:09:36 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
T i m wrote:


snip

[1] For nearly every other instance you might think you have found of
my 'intolerance' is more likely to be a balance of who might have a
right to impart themselves on someone else in a negative way. Like
smokers do to non smokers, cat owners do to non cat owners or a
minority of the electorate who can decide the future for the majority.
It is *they* who are demonstrating a lack of consideration and empathy
to others, not those forced to put up with it.

Sounds like the sort of rationalisation that concentration camp guards
had to do every morning. You seem to have difficulty in seeing these
offenders as actually people like yourself. This is fair enough, but
to then claim a special ability to empathise is bizarre.

Were you the only one to bother reading it?

On Friday, 30 August 2019 13:56:13 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message
...

First rule of any UPS is to check periodically that the battery is holding
its charge, and to keep the battery charged. My wife bought a UPS when she
bought a PC about 10 years ago, and we never got round to connecting or
testing the UPS for about 18 months, by which time it was out of warranty.

And flatter than a pancake I suspect?

I think the best analogy would be a bucket with a huge hole in the bottom so
it won't hold any water.

Sulphated. Lead acids left flat for 18 months have no chance really.


NT