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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
Hi all,
I have a steel BBQ which I am looking to derust using phosphoric acid. The acid is very runny and the BBQ far too big to dip it into a container of acid. I was wondering what the best method of "soaking" the BBQ in the acid so it would remove the rust. Some thoughts I had were. 1. put kitchen roll soaked in the acid on the surface 2. somehow thicken it (e.g. cornflour or something) 3. continually scrub it with a brush soaked in it Anyone have any ideas / thoughts? thanks Lee. |
#2
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On 23/08/2019 13:14, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all, I have a steel BBQ which I am looking to derust using phosphoric acid. The acid is very runny and the BBQ far too big to dip it into a container of acid. I was wondering what the best method of "soaking" the BBQ in the acid so it would remove the rust. Some thoughts I had were. 1. put kitchen roll soaked in the acid on the surface 2. somehow thicken it (e.g. cornflour or something) 3. continually scrub it with a brush soaked in it Anyone have any ideas / thoughts? thanks Lee. Any of these work. Kitchen roll is good if you have a local area that is particularly corroded. |
#3
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 05:14:44 -0700, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all, I have a steel BBQ which I am looking to derust using phosphoric acid. The acid is very runny and the BBQ far too big to dip it into a container of acid. I was wondering what the best method of "soaking" the BBQ in the acid so it would remove the rust. Some thoughts I had were. 1. put kitchen roll soaked in the acid on the surface 2. somehow thicken it (e.g. cornflour or something) 3. continually scrub it with a brush soaked in it Anyone have any ideas / thoughts? The rust eater products used to come as a gel with a brush. Fine for small to medium spot treatment. You don't say how much rust there is to treat. Worth considering using some strong plastic sheeting to rest the BBQ bits on whilst you are treating them. Acid tends to rot most things it comes in contact with, especially clothing. Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#4
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On Friday, 23 August 2019 14:39:58 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
Worth considering using some strong plastic sheeting to rest the BBQ bits on whilst you are treating them. Acid tends to rot most things it comes in contact with, especially clothing. .... and teeth. Many fizzy drinks contain a significant amount of phosphoric acid. Dentists use concentrated phosphoric acid to etch the surface of cavities so as to improve the adhesion of composite filling resins. It also makes an excellent flux for soldering to stainless steel. John |
#5
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On 23/08/19 14:39, David wrote:
Worth considering using some strong plastic sheeting to rest the BBQ bits on whilst you are treating them. Acid tends to rot most things it comes in contact with, especially clothing. It's not the rotting which would concern me - it's the splashing of the ferric phosphate (formed when the rust reacts with the phosphoric acid). Any porous surface, including clothing, wood, stone, etc will get stained and such stains will never be able to be removed completely. -- Jeff |
#6
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On Friday, 23 August 2019 13:14:47 UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all, I have a steel BBQ which I am looking to derust using phosphoric acid. The acid is very runny and the BBQ far too big to dip it into a container of acid. I was wondering what the best method of "soaking" the BBQ in the acid so it would remove the rust. Some thoughts I had were. 1. put kitchen roll soaked in the acid on the surface 2. somehow thicken it (e.g. cornflour or something) 3. continually scrub it with a brush soaked in it Anyone have any ideas / thoughts? thanks Lee. Save your money next time, use HCl. HCl leaves a surface that rusts very quickly, it must be dried & coated right away when rinsed off. NT |
#7
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On 23/08/19 18:58, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 18:38:47 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote: On 23/08/19 14:39, David wrote: Worth considering using some strong plastic sheeting to rest the BBQ bits on whilst you are treating them. Acid tends to rot most things it comes in contact with, especially clothing. It's not the rotting which would concern me - it's the splashing of the ferric phosphate (formed when the rust reacts with the phosphoric acid). Any porous surface, including clothing, wood, stone, etc will get stained and such stains will never be able to be removed completely. Hmmm...ferric phosphate is practically insoluble. That's not to say that you wouldn't get bits of ferric phosphate flaking off the treated sheet, but I doubt it would stain. And to do it properly, you should wire-brush or otherwise abrade the steel first to remove loose bits. The whole idea of treating rust with phosphoric acid is that the acid reacts with the rust to give an insoluble, fairly impermeable skin on the steel. Indeed. There is little doubt about the "black" ferric phosphate being completely insoluble. However, the Wikipedia article for ferric phosphate says that the dihydrate has a solubility of about 0.67g/100ml, which would be enough to make a stain mark. But how and under what circumstances it is formed I haven't been able to establish. I might have a play with some phosphoric acid rust remover and rusty nails to see if the solution left on the surface of the blackened nails can stain porous surfaces. -- Jeff |
#8
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
Get it done by a company?
Buy a new one. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Lee Nowell" wrote in message ... Hi all, I have a steel BBQ which I am looking to derust using phosphoric acid. The acid is very runny and the BBQ far too big to dip it into a container of acid. I was wondering what the best method of "soaking" the BBQ in the acid so it would remove the rust. Some thoughts I had were. 1. put kitchen roll soaked in the acid on the surface 2. somehow thicken it (e.g. cornflour or something) 3. continually scrub it with a brush soaked in it Anyone have any ideas / thoughts? thanks Lee. |
#9
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 05:14:44 -0700 (PDT), Lee Nowell
wrote: Anyone have any ideas / thoughts? Brush on, cover in clingfilm? Thomas Prufer |
#10
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 18:38:47 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote: On 23/08/19 14:39, David wrote: Worth considering using some strong plastic sheeting to rest the BBQ bits on whilst you are treating them. Acid tends to rot most things it comes in contact with, especially clothing. It's not the rotting which would concern me - it's the splashing of the ferric phosphate (formed when the rust reacts with the phosphoric acid). Any porous surface, including clothing, wood, stone, etc will get stained and such stains will never be able to be removed completely. ?? As suppled phosphoric acid was clear. I can't recollect having my clothing or cleaning materials stained. It turns your fingers black after a while, but it's not permanent. Not sure how it would work with a barbecue though. Phosphoric acid is not used to remove rust. It is a rust "converter". The stuff turns the oxide coating into a phosphate, preventing further corrosion. Whether this would be effective on a sheet mild steel barbercue, I wouldnt like to predict. The adverts in the 70's told fibs incidentally, it does nor "turn rust into good metal" :-) AB |
#11
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
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#12
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On 23/08/19 21:02, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 23/08/19 18:58, Chris Hogg wrote: On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 18:38:47 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote: On 23/08/19 14:39, David wrote: Worth considering using some strong plastic sheeting to rest the BBQ bits on whilst you are treating them. Acid tends to rot most things it comes in contact with, especially clothing. It's not the rotting which would concern me - it's the splashing of the ferric phosphate (formed when the rust reacts with the phosphoric acid). Any porous surface, including clothing, wood, stone, etc will get stained and such stains will never be able to be removed completely. Hmmm...ferric phosphate is practically insoluble. That's not to say that you wouldn't get bits of ferric phosphate flaking off the treated sheet, but I doubt it would stain. And to do it properly, you should wire-brush or otherwise abrade the steel first to remove loose bits. The whole idea of treating rust with phosphoric acid is that the acid reacts with the rust to give an insoluble, fairly impermeable skin on the steel. Indeed. There is little doubt about the "black" ferric phosphate being completely insoluble. However, the Wikipedia article for ferric phosphate says that the dihydrate has a solubility of about 0.67g/100ml, which would be enough to make a stain mark. But how and under what circumstances it is formed I haven't been able to establish. I might have a play with some phosphoric acid rust remover and rusty nails to see if the solution left on the surface of the blackened nails can stain porous surfaces. I just tried it with Loctite 7503 Rust Remedy. The stuff is a greyish solution and stains by itself - never mind any rust! I did it by touching the surface of cotton material and a piece of 15x38 pine with the solution 15 seconds after applying it to the rusty surface. The solution remaining on the converted "rust" left stains which were a lot darker. BUT it took me some time to find that Loctite 7503 contains tannic acid. There is no phosphoric acid in it at all! So if anyone would like to repeat this with phosphoric acid and report back, it would be interesting to see the result. -- Jeff |
#13
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On 24/08/19 09:40, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 18:38:47 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote: On 23/08/19 14:39, David wrote: Worth considering using some strong plastic sheeting to rest the BBQ bits on whilst you are treating them. Acid tends to rot most things it comes in contact with, especially clothing. It's not the rotting which would concern me - it's the splashing of the ferric phosphate (formed when the rust reacts with the phosphoric acid). Any porous surface, including clothing, wood, stone, etc will get stained and such stains will never be able to be removed completely. ?? As suppled phosphoric acid was clear. I can't recollect having my clothing or cleaning materials stained. It turns your fingers black after a while, but it's not permanent. No stain is permanent on the surface of skin as the cells are shed after time, but the fact there was a stain at all is interesting. Have a look at my reply to myself (to Chris Hogg's comment). If you've got something rusty and phosphoric acid, it would be of interest to repeat what I had tried3. Not sure how it would work with a barbecue though. Phosphoric acid is not used to remove rust. It is a rust "converter". The stuff turns the oxide coating into a phosphate, preventing further corrosion. Whether this would be effective on a sheet mild steel barbercue, I wouldnt like to predict. I would assume the ferric phosphate formed is heatproof to some extent. I doubt it would stand up to any scraping though! The adverts in the 70's told fibs incidentally, it does nor "turn rust into good metal" :-) Why am I not surprised?... -- Jeff |
#15
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Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!
On Sun, 25 Aug 2019 07:15:22 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: You must be some kind of masochist. HCL is evil. Maybe outside on a windy day with a full chemical suit etc. You have never had a ****ing clue. Oh, ****! And this innocent little thread was Rodent-free, so far! tsk -- Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak": "That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******." Message-ID: |
#16
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
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#17
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On Saturday, 24 August 2019 10:43:25 UTC+1, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 12:08:58 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 23 August 2019 13:14:47 UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote: Hi all, I have a steel BBQ which I am looking to derust using phosphoric acid. The acid is very runny and the BBQ far too big to dip it into a container of acid. I was wondering what the best method of "soaking" the BBQ in the acid so it would remove the rust. Some thoughts I had were. 1. put kitchen roll soaked in the acid on the surface 2. somehow thicken it (e.g. cornflour or something) 3. continually scrub it with a brush soaked in it Anyone have any ideas / thoughts? thanks Lee. Save your money next time, use HCl. HCl leaves a surface that rusts very quickly, it must be dried & coated right away when rinsed off. NT You must be some kind of masochist. HCL is evil. Maybe outside on a windy day with a full chemical suit etc. AB You certainly would need to do something that size outdoors HCl is a joy to work with, results are almost instant. Last job I used it on the rust was gone in about 3 seconds, I wiped it off as I went to avoid excessive fume buildup (indoors). NT |
#18
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Using phosphoric acid on sheet steel
On Sunday, 25 August 2019 00:14:47 UTC+1, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 15:30:10 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 24 August 2019 10:43:25 UTC+1, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote: On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 12:08:58 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 23 August 2019 13:14:47 UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote: Hi all, I have a steel BBQ which I am looking to derust using phosphoric acid. The acid is very runny and the BBQ far too big to dip it into a container of acid. I was wondering what the best method of "soaking" the BBQ in the acid so it would remove the rust. Some thoughts I had were. 1. put kitchen roll soaked in the acid on the surface 2. somehow thicken it (e.g. cornflour or something) 3. continually scrub it with a brush soaked in it Anyone have any ideas / thoughts? thanks Lee. Save your money next time, use HCl. HCl leaves a surface that rusts very quickly, it must be dried & coated right away when rinsed off. NT You must be some kind of masochist. HCL is evil. Maybe outside on a windy day with a full chemical suit etc. AB You certainly would need to do something that size outdoors HCl is a joy to work with, results are almost instant. Last job I used it on the rust was gone in about 3 seconds, I wiped it off as I went to avoid excessive fume buildup (indoors). NT HCL is not nice. The finish is good, as you say. Unless you then follow up with a lot of washing and tratment, the rust will be back in no time. the metal needs coating quickly, leaving it to dry is too slow. There's only time for a quick rinse, a lot of washing guarantees rerusting. Phosphoric acid is quick and I have had no trouble with fumes, although I have stood next to a colleague who was finding the fumes uncomfortable, yet I could genuinely smell nothing. AB HCl is agressive in that respect, but I find it no problem to manage. NT |
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