"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 12 August 2019 20:26:01 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 9 August 2019 18:20:31 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 8 August 2019 19:37:24 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 8 August 2019 12:17:56 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 7 August 2019 20:53:45 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 19:14:01 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 5 August 2019 21:13:21 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article , alan_m
writes
On 03/08/2019 21:24, Swer wrote:

Doesnt work so well in mine. They wait far too
long
before
opening a new one and the new one closes much too
quickly.
And I hate the fact that they have no self checkouts
at
all.


I find the waiting time in checkout queues at Tesco
and
Sainsbury
far
exceed those in the German discounters

Very rarely queue in our Sainburys - click and go.
Handle
the
goods
once instead of 3 times.

I always make a point of not using the self service
checkouts,
I'd
rather
pay for the people to do it for me rather than pay more
to
DIY
it.
See keeping on DIY topic. :-)

Yes pay more as I don't thieve, apparntly 1 in 5 do
and it's increasing sometimes difficult,to detect

Bull****.

http://theconversation.com/how-shopl...heckouts-97029

That was a comment about your stupid "it's increasing
sometimes
difficult,to
detect", ****wit.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...c0491ed9825dda

Just because some ****wit journo working for one of Murdoch's
****
rags
claims something...

And what matters to the supermarket is whether they
lose more with the self checkouts than they would
lose paying the wages of all the monkeyed checkouts.

Lose has nothing to do with it they are looking at profit margins.

What matters to the supermarket is whether what gets stolen
with the self checkouts is greater than the effect on profits
of paying the wages of all the monkeyed checkouts.

Someones got to refill the shelevs after the stuffs been stolen

And after it has been paid for too.

Stuff that get taken from the shelves and not paid for you mean.

Nope, stuff that has been sold and paid for as it should be.

and what happens is the checkout monkeys are replaced with security
staff,

Doesnt happen here. There is just one monkey
checking all 15 self checkouts instead of far more
monkeys monkeying the monkeyed checkouts.

So they put prices up to cover the loses,

And lose sales when anyone with a clue buys from their competitors.

why should they care you're paying for it.

Not when you buy from their competitors.

which cost more

Costs much less because there is only one of those.

but stuff is being stolen far more than the
cheap labour for checkout monkeys costs.

BULL****.

More and more seem to be doing it as they 'sense'
others are doing it, it then becomes allmost normal.

Single digit percentage aint anything even remotely like normal,
****wit.

since when has 16% been classed as single digit ?

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...c0491ed9825dda

Just because some ****wit journo working for one of Murdoch's ****
rags
claims something...

costing the sector $3.37 billion in the 2017-18 financial year.

Still single digit percentage of their turnover, ****wit.

$3 billion is still quiet a bit of money

So is what gets paid to the checkout monkeys.

and they can refill the shelevs.

So can the monkey who watches the self checkouts.

It takes more than one to keep supermarket stocked.

Clearly doesnt.

https://www.smartcompany.com.au/indu...eft-australia/

That operation is flogging their services, stupid.

Clearly Woolys have decided that self checkouts save them money
given that they have just rebuilt my local with 3 times as many
of
them and have eliminated all the conveyor manned checkouts.

Probbaly a dumb decision made years ago

Nope, just been rebuilt a month ago now.

Yes a dump decision made years ago,

Taint a dumb decision when it costs less than the
wages of all those checkout monkeys it replaces.

If it does.

Corse it does when there is just one monkey for
all the selfcheckout who is paid the same as the
monkeys operating the monkeyed checkouts.

checkout monkeys are cheap, a couple of tins of salmon or a 12 pack of
beer an hour.

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage
with all the monkeys monkeying the monkeyed checkouts.

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 05:10:41 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another 181 !!! of the usual bull**** unread again

....and much better air in here!

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 20:10:52 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 12 August 2019 20:26:01 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 9 August 2019 18:20:31 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 8 August 2019 19:37:24 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 8 August 2019 12:17:56 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 7 August 2019 20:53:45 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
....
On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 19:14:01 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 5 August 2019 21:13:21 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article , alan_m
writes
On 03/08/2019 21:24, Swer wrote:

Doesnt work so well in mine. They wait far too
long
before
opening a new one and the new one closes much too
quickly.
And I hate the fact that they have no self checkouts
at
all.


I find the waiting time in checkout queues at Tesco
and
Sainsbury
far
exceed those in the German discounters

Very rarely queue in our Sainburys - click and go.
Handle
the
goods
once instead of 3 times.

I always make a point of not using the self service
checkouts,
I'd
rather
pay for the people to do it for me rather than pay more
to
DIY
it.
See keeping on DIY topic. :-)

Yes pay more as I don't thieve, apparntly 1 in 5 do
and it's increasing sometimes difficult,to detect

Bull****.

http://theconversation.com/how-shopl...heckouts-97029

That was a comment about your stupid "it's increasing
sometimes
difficult,to
detect", ****wit.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...c0491ed9825dda

Just because some ****wit journo working for one of Murdoch's
****
rags
claims something...

And what matters to the supermarket is whether they
lose more with the self checkouts than they would
lose paying the wages of all the monkeyed checkouts.

Lose has nothing to do with it they are looking at profit margins..

What matters to the supermarket is whether what gets stolen
with the self checkouts is greater than the effect on profits
of paying the wages of all the monkeyed checkouts.

Someones got to refill the shelevs after the stuffs been stolen

And after it has been paid for too.

Stuff that get taken from the shelves and not paid for you mean.

Nope, stuff that has been sold and paid for as it should be.

Paid for by increasing the prices for those that do pay.

Here in the UK TFL has said less people are using the buses, but that isnlt true less people are scanning their oyster cards so they get free travel.
I see it everyday, I;d estimate 30% of bust users aren't aren't scanning in, they just walk on the bus, the driver isn't interesting in confronting them.
But you have to be observant otherwise you'll miss what is going on.



and what happens is the checkout monkeys are replaced with security
staff,

Doesnt happen here. There is just one monkey
checking all 15 self checkouts instead of far more
monkeys monkeying the monkeyed checkouts.

So they put prices up to cover the loses,

And lose sales when anyone with a clue buys from their competitors.

Yes that's what I said sometimne ago, but it takes the supermarkets some time to realise and sort it out.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...afdb86be027a46

Doing the above does cost money, replacing things costs does.
SO how comes no one realsied this from day one.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8370621.html



why should they care you're paying for it.

Not when you buy from their competitors.

Yes that's what I said, they'll loose customers.


which cost more

Costs much less because there is only one of those.

but stuff is being stolen far more than the
cheap labour for checkout monkeys costs.

BULL****.

So why are woolworths in AUS putting cameras on self checkouts ?
Seems a waste of money unless it's for customers to take selfies of them and their shopping which seems unlikely.

One of my friends have just been trainbed uop to operate such CCTV cameras regarding the law as peolpe can be recognised you have to have safeguards in place to protect the innocent.




It takes more than one to keep supermarket stocked.

Clearly doesnt.

Even more clearly it does, otherwise they wouldn't employ them.
There were 4 in aldi restocking on monday.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:

[Snip]

Here in the UK TFL has said less people are using the buses, but that
isnlt true less people are scanning their oyster cards so they get free
travel. I see it everyday, I;d estimate 30% of bust users aren't aren't
scanning in, they just walk on the bus, the driver isn't interesting in
confronting them. But you have to be observant otherwise you'll miss what
is going on.

How many of those are, like me, holders of bus passes? They don't need to
scan in, I don't know about Freedom Passes.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 20:10:52 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 12 August 2019 20:26:01 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 9 August 2019 18:20:31 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 8 August 2019 19:37:24 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 8 August 2019 12:17:56 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 7 August 2019 20:53:45 UTC+1, Rod Speed
wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 19:14:01 UTC+1, Rod Speed
wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 5 August 2019 21:13:21 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article ,
alan_m
writes
On 03/08/2019 21:24, Swer wrote:

Doesnt work so well in mine. They wait far too
long
before
opening a new one and the new one closes much too
quickly.
And I hate the fact that they have no self
checkouts
at
all.


I find the waiting time in checkout queues at Tesco
and
Sainsbury
far
exceed those in the German discounters

Very rarely queue in our Sainburys - click and go.
Handle
the
goods
once instead of 3 times.

I always make a point of not using the self service
checkouts,
I'd
rather
pay for the people to do it for me rather than pay
more
to
DIY
it.
See keeping on DIY topic. :-)

Yes pay more as I don't thieve, apparntly 1 in 5 do
and it's increasing sometimes difficult,to detect

Bull****.

http://theconversation.com/how-shopl...heckouts-97029

That was a comment about your stupid "it's increasing
sometimes
difficult,to
detect", ****wit.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...c0491ed9825dda

Just because some ****wit journo working for one of Murdoch's
****
rags
claims something...

And what matters to the supermarket is whether they
lose more with the self checkouts than they would
lose paying the wages of all the monkeyed checkouts.

Lose has nothing to do with it they are looking at profit
margins.

What matters to the supermarket is whether what gets stolen
with the self checkouts is greater than the effect on profits
of paying the wages of all the monkeyed checkouts.

Someones got to refill the shelevs after the stuffs been stolen

And after it has been paid for too.

Stuff that get taken from the shelves and not paid for you mean.

Nope, stuff that has been sold and paid for as it should be.

Paid for by increasing the prices for those that do pay.

Nope, paid for by having only one monkey supervising
the self checkouts instead of one monkey per checkout.

And since this **** is the best you can manage, here
goes the chain on the rest of your even sillier ****.

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:27:10 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


FLUSH another 114 !!! lines of absolute **** unread

....and nothing's left!

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:10:11 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:

[Snip]

Here in the UK TFL has said less people are using the buses, but that
isnlt true less people are scanning their oyster cards so they get free
travel. I see it everyday, I;d estimate 30% of bust users aren't aren't
scanning in, they just walk on the bus, the driver isn't interesting in
confronting them. But you have to be observant otherwise you'll miss what
is going on.

How many of those are, like me, holders of bus passes?

If yuo have a pass yuo still need to or should scan in.

They don't need to
scan in, I don't know about Freedom Passes.

Then why give them a pass if they aren't needed, and I'd say it's close to zero especaily when you see them run up the stairs or sit down or hide, they also tend to get on in the middle or back doors, you can see them at the bus stop going for those doors rather than where the driver is.
There is one in particualr that tries to emulate the noise an accepted card makes. I;ve seen him 3 times so far this year always at the same bus stop too.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:10:11 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:

[Snip]

Here in the UK TFL has said less people are using the buses, but that
isnlt true less people are scanning their oyster cards so they get free
travel. I see it everyday, I;d estimate 30% of bust users aren't aren't
scanning in, they just walk on the bus, the driver isn't interesting in
confronting them. But you have to be observant otherwise you'll miss
what
is going on.

How many of those are, like me, holders of bus passes?

If yuo have a pass yuo still need to or should scan in.

They don't need to
scan in, I don't know about Freedom Passes.

Then why give them a pass if they aren't needed,

the pass is needed (FSVO)

it's the scanning part on entry that (some think) is optional

tim

In article 6fa96165-48dd-4138-8d33-
, says...


... they also tend to get on in the middle or back doors,
you can see them at the bus stop going for those doors
rather than where the driver is.

Is this on Borismasters aka New Bus For London?

The buses with thee doors?

In which case you can enter by any door - but must, of course,
swipe your pass/Oystercard/NFC card.


--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:01:25 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:10:11 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:

[Snip]

Here in the UK TFL has said less people are using the buses, but that
isnlt true less people are scanning their oyster cards so they get free
travel. I see it everyday, I;d estimate 30% of bust users aren't aren't
scanning in, they just walk on the bus, the driver isn't interesting in
confronting them. But you have to be observant otherwise you'll miss
what
is going on.

How many of those are, like me, holders of bus passes?

If yuo have a pass yuo still need to or should scan in.

They don't need to
scan in, I don't know about Freedom Passes.

Then why give them a pass if they aren't needed,

the pass is needed (FSVO)

whatever that means.

But I have seen notices saying that you must have a valid ticket or pass to enable you to travel.


it's the scanning part on entry that (some think) is optional

And they are wrong, but it doesn't explain the high numbers of peole not scanning in a card.


tim

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:46:44 UTC+1, Terry Casey wrote:
In article 6fa96165-48dd-4138-8d33-
, says...


... they also tend to get on in the middle or back doors,
you can see them at the bus stop going for those doors
rather than where the driver is.

Is this on Borismasters aka New Bus For London?

Yes.


The buses with thee doors?

Yes.


In which case you can enter by any door - but must, of course,
swipe your pass/Oystercard/NFC card.

There's nothing stopping you not swiping or geting on the buss without a pass.

In article 96207a87-82e6-4804-acdc-09f8d7eea654
@googlegroups.com, says...

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:46:44 UTC+1, Terry Casey wrote:
In article 6fa96165-48dd-4138-8d33-
, says...


... they also tend to get on in the middle or back doors,
you can see them at the bus stop going for those doors
rather than where the driver is.

Is this on Borismasters aka New Bus For London?

Yes.


The buses with thee doors?

Yes.


In which case you can enter by any door - but must, of course,
swipe your pass/Oystercard/NFC card.

There's nothing stopping you not swiping or geting on the buss without a pass.

Correct - the same as on the Bendibuses they replaced.

I know that Revenue Protection used to swoop on those mob
handed - presumably the do the same with the Borismasters but,
as I no longer live in Greater London I have no practical
experience of this.

I used to notice that if I encountered them - usually on
trains because I didn't use open boarding buses - as they went
round with their portable card readers that they never
bothered the read the card if presented with a Freedom Pass.

--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:01:25 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:10:11 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:

[Snip]

Here in the UK TFL has said less people are using the buses, but
that
isnlt true less people are scanning their oyster cards so they get
free
travel. I see it everyday, I;d estimate 30% of bust users aren't
aren't
scanning in, they just walk on the bus, the driver isn't interesting
in
confronting them. But you have to be observant otherwise you'll miss
what
is going on.

How many of those are, like me, holders of bus passes?

If yuo have a pass yuo still need to or should scan in.

They don't need to
scan in, I don't know about Freedom Passes.

Then why give them a pass if they aren't needed,

the pass is needed (FSVO)

whatever that means.

it means the pass is needed, so therefore they have to be given out

no-one gets free travel in London on the basis of looking like they are old
enough, they have to have a pass that proves that they are.

But I have seen notices saying that you must have a valid ticket or pass
to enable you to travel.


it's the scanning part on entry that (some think) is optional

And they are wrong,

There are plenty who think otherwise

and AFAIA no experience that prove otherwise

but it doesn't explain the high numbers of peole not scanning in a card.

about 80% of passengers don't "pay" a fare on the bus because they have some
form of pass

tim

On Thursday, 15 August 2019 17:56:36 UTC+1, Terry Casey wrote:
In article 96207a87-82e6-4804-acdc-09f8d7eea654
@googlegroups.com, says...

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:46:44 UTC+1, Terry Casey wrote:
In article 6fa96165-48dd-4138-8d33-
, says...


... they also tend to get on in the middle or back doors,
you can see them at the bus stop going for those doors
rather than where the driver is.

Is this on Borismasters aka New Bus For London?

Yes.


The buses with thee doors?

Yes.


In which case you can enter by any door - but must, of course,
swipe your pass/Oystercard/NFC card.

There's nothing stopping you not swiping or geting on the buss without a pass.

Correct - the same as on the Bendibuses they replaced.

There were far fewer Bendibuses than the current number of new routemasters.


I know that Revenue Protection used to swoop on those mob
handed - presumably the do the same with the Borismasters but,
as I no longer live in Greater London I have no practical
experience of this.

I do see them about once every 3 months, but I remmeber the Bendibuses being targeted about once every 2-3 weeks.


I used to notice that if I encountered them - usually on
trains because I didn't use open boarding buses - as they went
round with their portable card readers that they never
bothered the read the card if presented with a Freedom Pass.

because that;s the use of a freedom pass, but a bus driver won't know a person has a freedom pass unless shown will they.

The fact is they have little idea how many travel on buses if all they do is look at the scan results.

On Thursday, 15 August 2019 18:27:01 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:01:25 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:10:11 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:

[Snip]

Here in the UK TFL has said less people are using the buses, but
that
isnlt true less people are scanning their oyster cards so they get
free
travel. I see it everyday, I;d estimate 30% of bust users aren't
aren't
scanning in, they just walk on the bus, the driver isn't interesting
in
confronting them. But you have to be observant otherwise you'll miss
what
is going on.

How many of those are, like me, holders of bus passes?

If yuo have a pass yuo still need to or should scan in.

They don't need to
scan in, I don't know about Freedom Passes.

Then why give them a pass if they aren't needed,

the pass is needed (FSVO)

whatever that means.

it means the pass is needed, so therefore they have to be given out

Yes I know.


no-one gets free travel in London on the basis of looking like they are old
enough, they have to have a pass that proves that they are.

That's what I thought, even those that get free travel due to their age or lack of age such as yuong kids should be counted as traveling by bus.


But I have seen notices saying that you must have a valid ticket or pass
to enable you to travel.


it's the scanning part on entry that (some think) is optional

And they are wrong,

There are plenty who think otherwise

and those are the ones that are counted as traveling.



and AFAIA no experience that prove otherwise

I use at least 2 buses every weekday.


but it doesn't explain the high numbers of peole not scanning in a card.

about 80% of passengers don't "pay" a fare on the bus because they have some
form of pass

Like I do, I have an oystercard and I need to have it scanned or I'm illegal using the service.

Only those that are scanned in are counted as bus passengers, those that don't scan in aren't counted this results in a count that is far less than the actual number of travelers this allows TFL to reduce some services. They are plannig this in my local area cancelling one service and diverting another because of alledge lack of use. I know because I've talked to a bus driver about this, I've had 2 friends that have been bus drivers.


tim

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 15 August 2019 18:27:01 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:01:25 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:10:11 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:

[Snip]

Here in the UK TFL has said less people are using the buses, but
that
isnlt true less people are scanning their oyster cards so they
get
free
travel. I see it everyday, I;d estimate 30% of bust users aren't
aren't
scanning in, they just walk on the bus, the driver isn't
interesting
in
confronting them. But you have to be observant otherwise you'll
miss
what
is going on.

How many of those are, like me, holders of bus passes?

If yuo have a pass yuo still need to or should scan in.

They don't need to
scan in, I don't know about Freedom Passes.

Then why give them a pass if they aren't needed,

the pass is needed (FSVO)

whatever that means.

it means the pass is needed, so therefore they have to be given out

Yes I know.


no-one gets free travel in London on the basis of looking like they are
old
enough, they have to have a pass that proves that they are.

That's what I thought, even those that get free travel due to their age or
lack of age such as yuong kids should be counted as traveling by bus.


But I have seen notices saying that you must have a valid ticket or
pass
to enable you to travel.


it's the scanning part on entry that (some think) is optional

And they are wrong,

There are plenty who think otherwise

and those are the ones that are counted as traveling.



and AFAIA no experience that prove otherwise

I use at least 2 buses every weekday.

and you've seen one of these non-bonkers get prosecuted, have you?

Or more to the point, you've seen someone with a valid pass who didn't bonk,
get prosecuted?

but it doesn't explain the high numbers of peole not scanning in a card.

about 80% of passengers don't "pay" a fare on the bus because they have
some
form of pass

Like I do, I have an oystercard and I need to have it scanned or I'm
illegal using the service.

Only those that are scanned in are counted as bus passengers, those that
don't scan in aren't counted this results in a count that is far less than
the actual number of travelers this allows TFL to reduce some services.
They are plannig this in my local area cancelling one service and
diverting another because of alledge lack of use. I know because I've
talked to a bus driver about this, I've had 2 friends that have been bus
drivers.

I understand that people not bonking their pass mucks up the usage count
(it's self evident)

the question is one of whether it leaves the holder liable to prosecution.

tim

On Friday, 16 August 2019 14:09:35 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 15 August 2019 18:27:01 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:01:25 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:10:11 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:

[Snip]

Here in the UK TFL has said less people are using the buses, but
that
isnlt true less people are scanning their oyster cards so they
get
free
travel. I see it everyday, I;d estimate 30% of bust users aren't
aren't
scanning in, they just walk on the bus, the driver isn't
interesting
in
confronting them. But you have to be observant otherwise you'll
miss
what
is going on.

How many of those are, like me, holders of bus passes?

If yuo have a pass yuo still need to or should scan in.

They don't need to
scan in, I don't know about Freedom Passes.

Then why give them a pass if they aren't needed,

the pass is needed (FSVO)

whatever that means.

it means the pass is needed, so therefore they have to be given out

Yes I know.


no-one gets free travel in London on the basis of looking like they are
old
enough, they have to have a pass that proves that they are.

That's what I thought, even those that get free travel due to their age or
lack of age such as yuong kids should be counted as traveling by bus.


But I have seen notices saying that you must have a valid ticket or
pass
to enable you to travel.


it's the scanning part on entry that (some think) is optional

And they are wrong,

There are plenty who think otherwise

and those are the ones that are counted as traveling.



and AFAIA no experience that prove otherwise

I use at least 2 buses every weekday.

and you've seen one of these non-bonkers get prosecuted, have you?

No but I've seen them questioned and removed from a bus, and Ive seen a group of about 6 LT 'police' restrain someone at a bus stop.
For me to see one get prosecuted I'd have to attend court.


Or more to the point, you've seen someone with a valid pass who didn't bonk,
get prosecuted?

No, if they can show a vaild pass then they haven't commited any crime, I did that last week to reader on the bus wasn't working it showed a red LED and the driver waved us past.
I've never seen anyone get prosected for kiddie fiddling or murder. I have heard that it happens.




but it doesn't explain the high numbers of peole not scanning in a card.

about 80% of passengers don't "pay" a fare on the bus because they have
some
form of pass

Like I do, I have an oystercard and I need to have it scanned or I'm
illegal using the service.

Only those that are scanned in are counted as bus passengers, those that
don't scan in aren't counted this results in a count that is far less than
the actual number of travelers this allows TFL to reduce some services.
They are plannig this in my local area cancelling one service and
diverting another because of alledge lack of use. I know because I've
talked to a bus driver about this, I've had 2 friends that have been bus
drivers.

I understand that people not bonking their pass mucks up the usage count
(it's self evident)

yes it does, which means they don't have a relible way of tracking bus usage.
In the 80s I used to get the only night bus that didn't go through central london it was used by dockers but they were few and far between, the driver used to (before scanning, before oyster) add about 5 extra passengers when I got on.
As I was a regular every friday at ~4am I asked him once why do you do that, and he said well if I get less that 15 passengers they said they'll close the route and only have a a year to go until retirement so I'm trying to keep my job until then.




the question is one of whether it leaves the holder liable to prosecution.

Only if they don't have a valid ticket, then it does.
But rememer that sometimes your ticket isn't classed as valid unless you tap in.


tim