On Friday, 16 August 2019 14:09:35 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 15 August 2019 18:27:01 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:01:25 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:10:11 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:

[Snip]

Here in the UK TFL has said less people are using the buses, but
that
isnlt true less people are scanning their oyster cards so they
get
free
travel. I see it everyday, I;d estimate 30% of bust users aren't
aren't
scanning in, they just walk on the bus, the driver isn't
interesting
in
confronting them. But you have to be observant otherwise you'll
miss
what
is going on.

How many of those are, like me, holders of bus passes?

If yuo have a pass yuo still need to or should scan in.

They don't need to
scan in, I don't know about Freedom Passes.

Then why give them a pass if they aren't needed,

the pass is needed (FSVO)

whatever that means.

it means the pass is needed, so therefore they have to be given out

Yes I know.


no-one gets free travel in London on the basis of looking like they are
old
enough, they have to have a pass that proves that they are.

That's what I thought, even those that get free travel due to their age or
lack of age such as yuong kids should be counted as traveling by bus.


But I have seen notices saying that you must have a valid ticket or
pass
to enable you to travel.


it's the scanning part on entry that (some think) is optional

And they are wrong,

There are plenty who think otherwise

and those are the ones that are counted as traveling.



and AFAIA no experience that prove otherwise

I use at least 2 buses every weekday.

and you've seen one of these non-bonkers get prosecuted, have you?

No but I've seen them questioned and removed from a bus, and Ive seen a group of about 6 LT 'police' restrain someone at a bus stop.
For me to see one get prosecuted I'd have to attend court.


Or more to the point, you've seen someone with a valid pass who didn't bonk,
get prosecuted?

No, if they can show a vaild pass then they haven't commited any crime, I did that last week to reader on the bus wasn't working it showed a red LED and the driver waved us past.
I've never seen anyone get prosected for kiddie fiddling or murder. I have heard that it happens.




but it doesn't explain the high numbers of peole not scanning in a card.

about 80% of passengers don't "pay" a fare on the bus because they have
some
form of pass

Like I do, I have an oystercard and I need to have it scanned or I'm
illegal using the service.

Only those that are scanned in are counted as bus passengers, those that
don't scan in aren't counted this results in a count that is far less than
the actual number of travelers this allows TFL to reduce some services.
They are plannig this in my local area cancelling one service and
diverting another because of alledge lack of use. I know because I've
talked to a bus driver about this, I've had 2 friends that have been bus
drivers.

I understand that people not bonking their pass mucks up the usage count
(it's self evident)

yes it does, which means they don't have a relible way of tracking bus usage.
In the 80s I used to get the only night bus that didn't go through central london it was used by dockers but they were few and far between, the driver used to (before scanning, before oyster) add about 5 extra passengers when I got on.
As I was a regular every friday at ~4am I asked him once why do you do that, and he said well if I get less that 15 passengers they said they'll close the route and only have a a year to go until retirement so I'm trying to keep my job until then.




the question is one of whether it leaves the holder liable to prosecution.

Only if they don't have a valid ticket, then it does.
But rememer that sometimes your ticket isn't classed as valid unless you tap in.


tim