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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Drill charger diagnostics
I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge.
Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. I've opened up the charger. At the input of the transformer, I measure 240V. At the output, 0V (I'd expect 18V or so). I assume this means that the transformer itself is broken - at least, I can't think that anything in the circuit after the transformer could be responsible. I haven't desoldered the transformer from the circuit board, but I guess that would be a way of being sure. Is that correct? Daniele |
#2
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Drill charger diagnostics
In article
, D.M. Procida wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. I've opened up the charger. At the input of the transformer, I measure 240V. At the output, 0V (I'd expect 18V or so). I assume this means that the transformer itself is broken - at least, I can't think that anything in the circuit after the transformer could be responsible. I haven't desoldered the transformer from the circuit board, but I guess that would be a way of being sure. Is that correct? Daniele No LEDs, etc to tell you what is going on? -- *Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#3
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Drill charger diagnostics
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , D.M. Procida wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. I've opened up the charger. At the input of the transformer, I measure 240V. At the output, 0V (I'd expect 18V or so). I assume this means that the transformer itself is broken - at least, I can't think that anything in the circuit after the transformer could be responsible. I haven't desoldered the transformer from the circuit board, but I guess that would be a way of being sure. Is that correct? No LEDs, etc to tell you what is going on? The LEDs (charging, fully-charged) are both off. There is no voltage at the charger's output, which is why I opened it up to find out if I could where the fault is. Daniele |
#4
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 14:39, D.M. Procida wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , D.M. Procida wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. I've opened up the charger. At the input of the transformer, I measure 240V. At the output, 0V (I'd expect 18V or so). I assume this means that the transformer itself is broken - at least, I can't think that anything in the circuit after the transformer could be responsible. I haven't desoldered the transformer from the circuit board, but I guess that would be a way of being sure. Is that correct? No LEDs, etc to tell you what is going on? The LEDs (charging, fully-charged) are both off. There is no voltage at the charger's output, which is why I opened it up to find out if I could where the fault is. I would not expect an output from the transformer unless there is a load on it. And the load would be detected by the components on the PCB. -- Adam |
#5
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Drill charger diagnostics
In article
, D.M. Procida wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , D.M. Procida wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. I've opened up the charger. At the input of the transformer, I measure 240V. At the output, 0V (I'd expect 18V or so). I assume this means that the transformer itself is broken - at least, I can't think that anything in the circuit after the transformer could be responsible. I haven't desoldered the transformer from the circuit board, but I guess that would be a way of being sure. Is that correct? No LEDs, etc to tell you what is going on? The LEDs (charging, fully-charged) are both off. There is no voltage at the charger's output, which is why I opened it up to find out if I could where the fault is. Right. Must be pretty old if it has an actual transformer, rather than a SMPS. But a short etc after the transformer could have caused it to burn out. Difficult to know without seeing it how easy it would be to replace the transformer. You could trawl through Ebay or CPS etc for spares - but you'd likely pay less for a complete used charger than a new transformer, even if you can find an exact one. And if it's old the battery likely well past its best. -- *Great groups from little icons grow * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#6
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 11:44, D.M. Procida wrote:
I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. I've opened up the charger. At the input of the transformer, I measure 240V. At the output, 0V (I'd expect 18V or so). I assume this means that the transformer itself is broken - at least, I can't think that anything in the circuit after the transformer could be responsible. I haven't desoldered the transformer from the circuit board, but I guess that would be a way of being sure. Is that correct? Daniele If old iron cored transformer then it may have an embedded thermal fuse in the primary winding. It's usually possible (if being careful) to cut back the insulation and bypass said fuse - purely for testing purposes of course. |
#7
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 14:50, ARW wrote:
I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. You really don't need to go any further. Even if the charger is faulty and you can fix it, that won't help. The batteries are bound to be knackered. I'm not full of joy at the moment, you may have noticed, the reason being that I went for a scan before having an operation and they told me that they found something else. So, that's two operations - one major and one a bit less so. I'm not feeling optimistic about myself, so I'm buggered if I'm going to feel optimistic about your bleeding drill. |
#8
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Drill charger diagnostics
Dave Plowman (News) has brought this to us :
Right. Must be pretty old if it has an actual transformer, rather than a SMPS. SMPSU's have transformers too. |
#9
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 17:23, GB wrote:
On 18/05/2019 14:50, ARW wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. You really don't need to go any further. Even if the charger is faulty and you can fix it, that won't help. The batteries are bound to be knackered. I'm not full of joy at the moment, you may have noticed, the reason being that I went for a scan before having an operation and they told me that they found something else. So, that's two operations - one major and one a bit less so. I'm not feeling optimistic about myself, so I'm buggered if I'm going to feel optimistic about your bleeding drill. WTF? -- Adam |
#10
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Drill charger diagnostics
On Saturday, 18 May 2019 11:44:50 UTC+1, D.M. Procida wrote:
I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. I've opened up the charger. At the input of the transformer, I measure 240V. At the output, 0V (I'd expect 18V or so). I assume this means that the transformer itself is broken - at least, I can't think that anything in the circuit after the transformer could be responsible. I haven't desoldered the transformer from the circuit board, but I guess that would be a way of being sure. Is that correct? Daniele The transformer is generally the least likely item to fail, but it looks like it has. Measure the resistance of the secondary winding to be sure (with power disconnected) NT |
#11
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Drill charger diagnostics
ARW wrote:
The LEDs (charging, fully-charged) are both off. There is no voltage at the charger's output, which is why I opened it up to find out if I could where the fault is. I would not expect an output from the transformer unless there is a load on it. And the load would be detected by the components on the PCB. That surprises me. I would have expected to see 18V or whatever on the output side leads, *unless* something in the PCB were shorting them (and in which case, I would expect the fuse to have blown). Daniele |
#12
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Drill charger diagnostics
GB wrote:
On 18/05/2019 14:50, ARW wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. You really don't need to go any further. Even if the charger is faulty and you can fix it, that won't help. The batteries are bound to be knackered. I'm not full of joy at the moment, you may have noticed, the reason being that I went for a scan before having an operation and they told me that they found something else. So, that's two operations - one major and one a bit less so. I'm not feeling optimistic about myself, so I'm buggered if I'm going to feel optimistic about your bleeding drill. I'm very sorry to hear it, and I would very happily give up any hope for my drill in exchange for some cause for optimism for you. So I wish you the very best of luck. Daniele |
#13
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 19:08, D.M. Procida wrote:
GB wrote: On 18/05/2019 14:50, ARW wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. You really don't need to go any further. Even if the charger is faulty and you can fix it, that won't help. The batteries are bound to be knackered. I'm not full of joy at the moment, you may have noticed, the reason being that I went for a scan before having an operation and they told me that they found something else. So, that's two operations - one major and one a bit less so. I'm not feeling optimistic about myself, so I'm buggered if I'm going to feel optimistic about your bleeding drill. I'm very sorry to hear it, and I would very happily give up any hope for my drill in exchange for some cause for optimism for you. So I wish you the very best of luck. Thanks. I very much hope that I have a better chance than your drill. Daniele |
#14
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 17:46, ARW wrote:
On 18/05/2019 17:23, GB wrote: On 18/05/2019 14:50, ARW wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. You really don't need to go any further. Even if the charger is faulty and you can fix it, that won't help. The batteries are bound to be knackered. I'm not full of joy at the moment, you may have noticed, the reason being that I went for a scan before having an operation and they told me that they found something else. So, that's two operations - one major and one a bit less so. I'm not feeling optimistic about myself, so I'm buggered if I'm going to feel optimistic about your bleeding drill. WTF? That was pretty close to what I said, actually. |
#15
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 19:39, GB wrote:
On 18/05/2019 17:46, ARW wrote: On 18/05/2019 17:23, GB wrote: On 18/05/2019 14:50, ARW wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. You really don't need to go any further. Even if the charger is faulty and you can fix it, that won't help. The batteries are bound to be knackered. I'm not full of joy at the moment, you may have noticed, the reason being that I went for a scan before having an operation and they told me that they found something else. So, that's two operations - one major and one a bit less so. I'm not feeling optimistic about myself, so I'm buggered if I'm going to feel optimistic about your bleeding drill. WTF? That was pretty close to what I said, actually. Going to peg it then? -- Adam |
#16
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Drill charger diagnostics
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#17
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 19:48, ARW wrote:
On 18/05/2019 19:39, GB wrote: On 18/05/2019 17:46, ARW wrote: On 18/05/2019 17:23, GB wrote: On 18/05/2019 14:50, ARW wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. You really don't need to go any further. Even if the charger is faulty and you can fix it, that won't help. The batteries are bound to be knackered. I'm not full of joy at the moment, you may have noticed, the reason being that I went for a scan before having an operation and they told me that they found something else. So, that's two operations - one major and one a bit less so. I'm not feeling optimistic about myself, so I'm buggered if I'm going to feel optimistic about your bleeding drill. WTF? That was pretty close to what I said, actually. Going to peg it then? Mortality for the main op is around 2%, so the chances are rather high that you'll have to put up with me a bit longer. None of this involves a computerectomy. |
#18
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 19:48, ARW wrote:
Going to peg it then? Adam you're being horrible! And what do you mean, a transformer won't have any voltage on the output unless it has a load? Bill |
#19
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 19:57, Bill Wright wrote:
On 18/05/2019 19:48, ARW wrote: Going to peg it then? Adam you're being horrible! Adam's going to peg it, too. It's only the timescale that's in doubt. |
#20
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 14:50, ARW wrote:
On 18/05/2019 14:39, D.M. Procida wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Â*Â*Â* D.M. Procida wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. I've opened up the charger. At the input of the transformer, I measure 240V. At the output, 0V (I'd expect 18V or so). I assume this means that the transformer itself is broken - at least, I can't think that anything in the circuit after the transformer could be responsible. I haven't desoldered the transformer from the circuit board, but I guess that would be a way of being sure. Is that correct? No LEDs, etc to tell you what is going on? The LEDs (charging, fully-charged) are both off. There is no voltage at the charger's output, which is why I opened it up to find out if I could where the fault is. I would not expect an output from the transformer unless there is a load on it. And the load would be detected by the components on the PCB. Unloaded transformers give a much higher output voltage than their rating, only falling into the normal range when loaded. SteveW |
#21
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 20:04, GB wrote:
On 18/05/2019 19:57, Bill Wright wrote: On 18/05/2019 19:48, ARW wrote: Going to peg it then? Adam you're being horrible! Adam's going to peg it, too. It's only the timescale that's in doubt. If I die before you I can haunt you. -- Adam |
#22
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 19:57, Bill Wright wrote:
On 18/05/2019 19:48, ARW wrote: Going to peg it then? Adam you're being horrible! And what do you mean, a transformer won't have any voltage on the output unless it has a load? It does rather depend on how you interpret "transformer". If you mean the whole charger, then yup its likely with modern li-ion chargers, there will be no voltage output until a battery is sensed. Older NiCd and NiMh, may or may not have voltage output at all times depending on type. If you mean transformer as in the internal component, then in the case of an old linear supply - yup it will have AC volts on the output at all times the primary is powered unless its knackered. I would have though that linear style supplies in chargers are pretty rare for all but the most feeble wall wart style chargers these days. So that leaves a large number of SMPSUs - those will have much smaller lighter transformers, and again its not uncommon to have then shutdown their output on no load. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#23
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 11:44, D.M. Procida wrote:
I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. I've opened up the charger. At the input of the transformer, I measure 240V. At the output, 0V (I'd expect 18V or so). I assume this means that the transformer itself is broken - at least, I can't think that anything in the circuit after the transformer could be responsible. I haven't desoldered the transformer from the circuit board, but I guess that would be a way of being sure. Is that correct? Daniele If it's an old B&D Cordless it might well have NiCad batteries that are now dead; not worth replacing and certainly not worth faffing about with the charger. Go and get a Lithium Ion one from Aldi/Lidl. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#24
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 19:57, Bill Wright wrote:
On 18/05/2019 19:48, ARW wrote: Going to peg it then? Adam you're being horrible! And what do you mean, a transformer won't have any voltage on the output unless it has a load? I'd say Adam was exercising his right in a multicultural society to take what was the traditional approach in my upbringing to such news. Much as I'd wondered when was the best time to send PM with my best wishes for successful ops and a speedy recovery, and my enquiries about any tools going begging if not. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
#25
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 19:57, Bill Wright wrote:
On 18/05/2019 19:48, ARW wrote: Going to peg it then? Adam you're being horrible! Honest. -- Adam |
#27
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Drill charger diagnostics
No that is not correct. There will be an AC voltage there, from there it
usually goes to a bridge rectifier and onto the rest of the charging circuit, probably a capacitor and a chip controlling a transistor if its quite old. My guess is that something has put a short across the transformer and a thermal fuse inside it has melted to stop it catching fire. Could be shorted turns, but more likely the bridge rectifiers failed on a mains spike and trashed it I had this happen to a power supply for a sub woofer a couple of years ago, but managed to switch it off before death of the transformer. It just needed a more robust bridge rectifier fitted and a surge protection mains connection! Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "ARW" wrote in message ... On 18/05/2019 14:39, D.M. Procida wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , D.M. Procida wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. I've opened up the charger. At the input of the transformer, I measure 240V. At the output, 0V (I'd expect 18V or so). I assume this means that the transformer itself is broken - at least, I can't think that anything in the circuit after the transformer could be responsible. I haven't desoldered the transformer from the circuit board, but I guess that would be a way of being sure. Is that correct? No LEDs, etc to tell you what is going on? The LEDs (charging, fully-charged) are both off. There is no voltage at the charger's output, which is why I opened it up to find out if I could where the fault is. I would not expect an output from the transformer unless there is a load on it. And the load would be detected by the components on the PCB. -- Adam |
#28
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Drill charger diagnostics
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote: Dave Plowman (News) has brought this to us : Right. Must be pretty old if it has an actual transformer, rather than a SMPS. SMPSU's have transformers too. Yes, pet. If you can't tell the difference between an analogue PS and SMPS at a glance, best not to touch it. -- *Procrastinate now Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#29
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 20:04, GB wrote:
On 18/05/2019 19:57, Bill Wright wrote: On 18/05/2019 19:48, ARW wrote: Going to peg it then? Adam you're being horrible! Adam's going to peg it, too. It's only the timescale that's in doubt. If you're after sympathy, you're going about it the wrong way. When I started work, men retired at 65 and lived for another 7 years or so, while the ladies chattered on a few more years. Now everyone seems to be living to 95+, and that age group paid peanuts in NI when they were working, but were already retired when NuLab had its massive top-down NHS re-org in 2001. They benefit from this but have never paid any of the NI increases that were imposed on younger workers to pay for it. If you are over 70 then you are in 'profit' (unless you were in the top 25% of taxpayers originally). |
#30
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 22:31, ARW wrote:
On 18/05/2019 19:57, Bill Wright wrote: On 18/05/2019 19:48, ARW wrote: Going to peg it then? Adam you're being horrible! Honest. +1. **** happens, even for those with colostomy bags. |
#31
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Drill charger diagnostics
On 18/05/2019 19:08, D.M. Procida wrote:
ARW wrote: The LEDs (charging, fully-charged) are both off. There is no voltage at the charger's output, which is why I opened it up to find out if I could where the fault is. I would not expect an output from the transformer unless there is a load on it. And the load would be detected by the components on the PCB. That surprises me. I would have expected to see 18V or whatever on the output side leads, *unless* something in the PCB were shorting them (and in which case, I would expect the fuse to have blown). Daniele If you allowed the battery voltage to drop too much then I thought this could cause overheating and a fire, so the charger measures the battery voltage and simply refused to charge at all as a safety precaution. Sometimes, removing the batteries and charging them with a proper bench power supply that can supply a constant current or voltage might recover them. battery-powered tools need to be charged regularly, even if not used for extended periods. |
#32
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Drill charger diagnostics
In article ,
GB wrote: On 18/05/2019 14:50, ARW wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. You really don't need to go any further. Even if the charger is faulty and you can fix it, that won't help. The batteries are bound to be knackered. I'm not full of joy at the moment, you may have noticed, the reason being that I went for a scan before having an operation and they told me that they found something else. So, that's two operations - one major and one a bit less so. I'm not feeling optimistic about myself, so I'm buggered if I'm going to feel optimistic about your bleeding drill. With most things like that better to find out ASAP. So more chance of treating it. Like many as we get older, I've had more than my fair share of the NHS in the past year or so. Making me even more appreciative of it. And hating ******s like Farage who what to turn it into some money making scam even more. -- *He who laughs last has just realised the joke. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#33
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Drill charger diagnostics
On Saturday, 18 May 2019 19:49:38 UTC+1, Fredxx wrote:
On 18/05/2019 17:49, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 18 May 2019 11:44:50 UTC+1, D.M. Procida wrote: The transformer is generally the least likely item to fail, but it looks like it has. Measure the resistance of the secondary winding to be sure (with power disconnected) I can't agree. Thermal fuses age, everything does. Thermal fuses are far more reliable than the electronics plus if the regulation circuit is faulty that can apply a larger than designed load on the transformer its going to go pop. it might if the electronics is already fried. That leaves the tranny as the most reliable part. NT |
#34
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Drill charger diagnostics
Andrew wrote:
On 18/05/2019 20:04, GB wrote: On 18/05/2019 19:57, Bill Wright wrote: On 18/05/2019 19:48, ARW wrote: Going to peg it then? Adam you're being horrible! Adam's going to peg it, too. It's only the timescale that's in doubt. If you're after sympathy, you're going about it the wrong way. When I started work, men retired at 65 and lived for another 7 years or so, while the ladies chattered on a few more years. Now everyone seems to be living to 95+, and that age group paid peanuts in NI when they were working, but were already retired when NuLab had its massive top-down NHS re-org in 2001. They benefit from this but have never paid any of the NI increases that were imposed on younger workers to pay for it. I am fairly certain that the only people to benefit from Blair's reorganisation were big American health companies and anyone (mainly nurses sick of hard work, and new MBA holders) who wanted a well-paid management job despite no discernible management ability. If you are over 70 then you are in 'profit' (unless you were in the top 25% of taxpayers originally). -- Roger Hayter |
#35
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Drill charger diagnostics
"GB" wrote in message ... On 18/05/2019 14:50, ARW wrote: I have an old B&D cordless drill; the batteries don't charge. Either the batteries or the charger are faulty. You really don't need to go any further. Even if the charger is faulty and you can fix it, that won't help. The batteries are bound to be knackered. I'm not full of joy at the moment, you may have noticed, the reason being that I went for a scan before having an operation and they told me that they found something else. So, that's two operations - one major and one a bit less so. I'm not feeling optimistic about myself, so I'm buggered if I'm going to feel optimistic about your bleeding drill. So you will be burning soon, bible basher. Great. |
#36
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Drill charger diagnostics
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman (News) has brought this to us : Right. Must be pretty old if it has an actual transformer, rather than a SMPS. SMPSU's have transformers too. But not ones that have 240V on their primary. |
#37
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Drill charger diagnostics
On Monday, 20 May 2019 06:40:24 UTC+1, billj wrote:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman (News) has brought this to us : Right. Must be pretty old if it has an actual transformer, rather than a SMPS. SMPSU's have transformers too. But not ones that have 240V on their primary. They pretty much all do of course. NT |
#38
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Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!
On Mon, 20 May 2019 15:39:03 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: I'm not full of joy at the moment, you may have noticed, the reason being that I went for a scan before having an operation and they told me that they found something else. So, that's two operations - one major and one a bit less so. I'm not feeling optimistic about myself, so I'm buggered if I'm going to feel optimistic about your bleeding drill. So you will be burning soon, bible basher. Great. NOT as soon as YOU, you abnormal 85-year-old senile pest! -- Bod addressing senile Rodent: "Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of trouble." Message-ID: |
#39
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More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rodent Speed
On Mon, 20 May 2019 15:40:12 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote: SMPSU's have transformers too. But not ones that have 240V on their primary. Simply in auto-contradicting mode again, eh, you abnormal 85-year-old senile pest? G -- Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot: "Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)" MID: |
#40
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Drill charger diagnostics
wrote in message ... On Monday, 20 May 2019 06:40:24 UTC+1, billj wrote: "Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman (News) has brought this to us : Right. Must be pretty old if it has an actual transformer, rather than a SMPS. SMPSU's have transformers too. But not ones that have 240V on their primary. They pretty much all do of course. Not in the sense of being directly wired to the mains input. .. |
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