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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Welding
Hi all,
Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta |
#2
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Welding
On 13/11/2018 18:19, Chris wrote:
Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta I'm a very bad welder. I can just about manage to weld 1/16" without making too much of a mess. BTW it helps to back the thin work with a thin layer of dry sand held in place by thicker stuff. Bill |
#3
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Welding
On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 18:19:20 -0000, Chris wrote:
Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta About 2mm in clean steel using an inverter welder. I can manage 1mm but it gets a bit messy and needs a lot of grinding. My old oil filled transformer welder not anywhere near as thin. I've just got a small argon bottle and a TIG gun, it will do much thinner but I'm so slow with it, I only managed about 3 linear inches of weld and got through half the bottle (a refill is £25 IIRC), I think the big problem was doing it outside where the slightest breeze blows the shielding gas away, I'm much betyter with oxyacetyline. AJH |
#4
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Welding
On Tuesday, 13 November 2018 18:19:22 UTC, Chris wrote:
Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta Car metalwork is no problem, except where it's rusted to thinneess. That's well under 1mm, but I don't know what size. NT |
#5
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Welding
On 13/11/18 18:19, Chris wrote:
Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta A mate I know could do 2mmm with relative ease (Landrover chassis) but 1mm was tricky if possible at all. Does it have to be stick? MIG is very easy even for a careful novice to get a half decent weld on thin metal. -- Email does not work |
#6
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Welding
Chris wrote:
Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) 3mm or thereabouts. -- Chris Green · |
#7
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Welding
"Chris" wrote in message news Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? That depends on your skill. Everyone told me that the slotted Dexion square tube was too thin to arc weld, but they were wrong, if you know what you are doing it arc welds fine; And similarly, I was shocked speechless at what a complete and utter obscenity a mate of mine, a farmer, made of the full rack for his Landrover, using 1" square RHS. (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) I learned to weld by doing it, no instruction let alone certification. So the short story is there is no simple answer to your question, it depends on how good your welding skills are. |
#8
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Welding
87213 wrote :
That depends on your skill. Everyone told me that the slotted Dexion square tube was too thin to arc weld, but they were wrong, if you know what you are doing it arc welds fine; I have numerous items made from arc welded Dexion, that thickness is easy. I have welded car chassis members too, but I would never attempt bodywork panels with an arc welder, it is far to thin. |
#9
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Welding
On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 19:34:47 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:
A mate I know could do 2mmm with relative ease (Landrover chassis) but 1mm was tricky if possible at all. Good to hear! Does it have to be stick? MIG is very easy even for a careful novice to get a half decent weld on thin metal. Yes, I have a MIG right next to the arc welder (on loan if it be needed). But the question I'm asking is about ARC, not MIG. |
#10
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Welding
On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 11:22:44 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:
Car metalwork is no problem, except where it's rusted to thinneess. That's well under 1mm, but I don't know what size. You must be up to code and have all your certificates and whatnot, then. No way would I attempt anything under 1.6mm with arc and I've been welding on and off for 40 years. Rusty, thinning car metalwork is unquestionably a job for MIG or oxy. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
#11
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Welding
In article ,
wrote: Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta Car metalwork is no problem, except where it's rusted to thinneess. That's well under 1mm, but I don't know what size. With a stick welder, rather than MIG? -- *Work is for people who don't know how to fish. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#12
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Welding
On 13/11/2018 18:19, Chris wrote:
Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) An experienced DIYer would use MIG for thin steel. Even gas-less is better than stick. Stick is ok for 2mm and thicker. 1mm and you're limited to pseudo spot welds with stick but a dream with MIG. |
#13
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Welding
On 13/11/2018 19:34, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/11/18 18:19, Chris wrote: Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta A mate I know could do 2mmm with relative ease (Landrover chassis) but 1mm was tricky if possible at all. Does it have to be stick? MIG is very easy even for a careful novice to get a half decent weld on thin metal. I can't do thin stuff with MIG, I end up squirting a length of wire through the hole that I've just made. I do much better with an inverter and rods. (This is the little £90 chinese unit from Lidl). |
#14
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Welding
On 13/11/2018 20:43, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
87213 wrote : That depends on your skill. Everyone told me that the slotted Dexion square tube was too thin to arc weld, but they were wrong, if you know what you are doing it arc welds fine; I have numerous items made from arc welded Dexion, that thickness is easy. I have welded car chassis members too, but I would never attempt bodywork panels with an arc welder, it is far to thin. I reckin dexion is fine with an inverter arc (and suitable rods), also the similar thickness inch square frame stuff. Wouldn't touch bodywork though. |
#15
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Welding
"Fredxx" wrote in message news On 13/11/2018 18:19, Chris wrote: Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) An experienced DIYer would use MIG for thin steel. Even gas-less is better than stick. Stick is ok for 2mm and thicker. 1mm and you're limited to pseudo spot welds with stick Bull****. but a dream with MIG. |
#16
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Welding
On Tuesday, 13 November 2018 19:34:52 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/11/18 18:19, Chris wrote: Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta A mate I know could do 2mmm with relative ease (Landrover chassis) but 1mm was tricky if possible at all. Does it have to be stick? MIG is very easy even for a careful novice to get a half decent weld on thin metal. Metal thickness depends a lot on arc current, a lot of arc welders just don't go very low. And skill. And what joint you're trying to make etc. NT |
#17
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Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL
On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 09:13:54 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again: Stick is ok for 2mm and thicker. 1mm and you're limited to pseudo spot welds with stick Bull****. Troll****! -- Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot: "Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?" MID: |
#18
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Welding
On 13/11/18 21:48, newshound wrote:
On 13/11/2018 19:34, Tim Watts wrote: On 13/11/18 18:19, Chris wrote: Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta A mate I know could do 2mmm with relative ease (Landrover chassis) but 1mm was tricky if possible at all. Does it have to be stick? MIG is very easy even for a careful novice to get a half decent weld on thin metal. I can't do thin stuff with MIG, I end up squirting a length of wire through the hole that I've just made. I do much better with an inverter and rods. (This is the little £90 chinese unit from Lidl). It's also dependent on the MIG machine. Me and another mate co purchased a Cebora MIG - not expensive, but used real CO2 gas (not gasless) and it was a joy to use. I taught myself and I could get some pretty nice weld beads on 1-2mm metal. I successfully welded up my mum's disability scooter (3-4mm metal) too with careful grinding to a bevel and multiple passes). Smooth wire feed seems to be the key, followed by a good range of current control. -- Email does not work |
#19
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Welding
On 13/11/2018 18:19, Chris wrote:
Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta Stick? Prolly 1/4" :-) maybe someone out there can do down to 2mm but I cant. Seriously, if its thin consider brazing with a blowlamp -- All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is fully understood. |
#20
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Welding
On 13/11/2018 20:55, Chris wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 19:34:47 +0000, Tim Watts wrote: A mate I know could do 2mmm with relative ease (Landrover chassis) but 1mm was tricky if possible at all. Good to hear! Does it have to be stick? MIG is very easy even for a careful novice to get a half decent weld on thin metal. Yes, I have a MIG right next to the arc welder (on loan if it be needed). But the question I'm asking is about ARC, not MIG. MIG is ARC. To avoid ambiguity say 'stick' -- Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason they are poor. Peter Thompson |
#21
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Welding
We had a woman working at our place who on the day of her retirement announced she had spent the war years welding Churchill tanks so we brought her down to the workshop to have a go on "Ol' Sparky" . It was like a duck to water as if she had only stopped the day before, if only I knew of her before especially when I looked at my miserable efforts.
Richard |
#22
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Welding
On 13/11/2018 18:19, Chris wrote:
Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) Depends a bit on the technology of the welder IME. With my crap AC buzz box, and crap welding skills, I can probably get down to about 1 to 1.5mm - but that usually requires doing some fast "build up" passes first before being able to make any sensible stab at it. A better inverter unit might be easier. MIG/MAG is usually much easier for thinner stuff. TIG will do really delicate stuff (although more slowly). -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#23
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Welding
On 14/11/2018 09:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/11/2018 18:19, Chris wrote: Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta Stick? Prolly 1/4" :-) maybe someone out there can do down to 2mm but I cant. Seriously, if its thin consider brazing with a blowlamp +1, I always silver solder if I want good integrity on finer stuff (not necessarily just sheet). A set of vermiculite blocks to make up little "brazing hearths" is very useful. You only need a propane torch especially with the lower melting point silver solders. |
#24
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Welding
newshound wrote:
On 13/11/2018 19:34, Tim Watts wrote: On 13/11/18 18:19, Chris wrote: Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta A mate I know could do 2mmm with relative ease (Landrover chassis) but 1mm was tricky if possible at all. Does it have to be stick? MIG is very easy even for a careful novice to get a half decent weld on thin metal. I can't do thin stuff with MIG, I end up squirting a length of wire through the hole that I've just made. I do much better with an inverter and rods. (This is the little £90 chinese unit from Lidl). I think we're clones, not only do you have horses but your welding is like mine too! :-) -- Chris Green · |
#25
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Welding
Tim Watts Wrote in message:
On 13/11/18 21:48, newshound wrote: On 13/11/2018 19:34, Tim Watts wrote: On 13/11/18 18:19, Chris wrote: Hi all, Realistically, what is the thinnest gauge of steel one can satisfactorily weld using an arc (stick) welder before blowing holes makes it next to impossible? (I'm not talking about some time-served, fully skilled, coded bloke with all the certification; just an experienced DIYer.) ta A mate I know could do 2mmm with relative ease (Landrover chassis) but 1mm was tricky if possible at all. Does it have to be stick? MIG is very easy even for a careful novice to get a half decent weld on thin metal. I can't do thin stuff with MIG, I end up squirting a length of wire through the hole that I've just made. I do much better with an inverter and rods. (This is the little £90 chinese unit from Lidl). It's also dependent on the MIG machine. Me and another mate co purchased a Cebora MIG - not expensive, but used real CO2 gas (not gasless) and it was a joy to use. I taught myself and I could get some pretty nice weld beads on 1-2mm metal. I successfully welded up my mum's disability scooter (3-4mm metal) too with careful grinding to a bevel and multiple passes). Smooth wire feed seems to be the key, followed by a good range of current control. +1 I still have a pub co2 cylinder knocking about (shhh :-) ). Made loads of railings & Juliette balconies , ornate gates etc. Wish I'd spent more on the machine, **** wire feed is the main issue for it... the list is longer.. Draper - say no more... -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#26
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Welding
On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 02:15:10 -0800, Tricky Dicky wrote:
We had a woman working at our place who on the day of her retirement announced she had spent the war years welding Churchill tanks so we brought her down to the workshop to have a go on "Ol' Sparky" . It was like a duck to water as if she had only stopped the day before, if only I knew of her before especially when I looked at my miserable efforts. Remarkable. I *always* find if I've not picked up an electrode for 18 months or more I have to waste at least a dozen or so rods getting the feel for it again. And it's always the same two mistakes I initially make: making a pass too quickly and not tucking the rod in sufficiently. Clearly she's a natural born welder; I'm not! (I normally get the current right straight from the get-go within 5A either way though). -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
#27
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Welding
On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:26:59 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
MIG/MAG is usually much easier for thinner stuff. TIG will do really delicate stuff (although more slowly). MAG?? Trouble with TIG is the work piece has to be *super-clean* for some reason, so it's a drag to prepare. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
#28
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Welding
On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 21:48:15 +0000
newshound wrote: I can't do thin stuff with MIG, I end up squirting a length of wire through the hole that I've just made. I do much better with an inverter and rods. (This is the little £90 chinese unit from Lidl). When you're working near the limit with MIG you can pulse it rather than applying continuous power, but that can result in a discontinuous weld or poor penetration. Button welds (spot welds made with a MIG) can be a useful technique if you don't need a continuous seam. |
#29
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Welding
On Thursday, 15 November 2018 03:27:48 UTC, Rob Morley wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 21:48:15 +0000 newshound wrote: I can't do thin stuff with MIG, I end up squirting a length of wire through the hole that I've just made. I do much better with an inverter and rods. (This is the little £90 chinese unit from Lidl).. When you're working near the limit with MIG you can pulse it rather than applying continuous power, but that can result in a discontinuous weld or poor penetration. Button welds (spot welds made with a MIG) can be a useful technique if you don't need a continuous seam. there's also the bitumen & coal dust trick to get 'continuous' welds. |
#30
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Welding
On 15/11/2018 00:56, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:26:59 +0000, John Rumm wrote: MIG/MAG is usually much easier for thinner stuff. TIG will do really delicate stuff (although more slowly). MAG?? Most wire fed gas shield welding on steel uses CO2 as a primary shielding gas rather than pure Argon or Helium. CO2 is classed as an "Active" rather than an "Inert" gas, hence MAG rather than MIG. Trouble with TIG is the work piece has to be *super-clean* for some reason, so it's a drag to prepare. Yup, the more refined the process, the cleaner it needs to be usually. If you want to weld through a load of rust and crap, there is not much to beat stick! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#31
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Welding
On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 12:45:04 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
Most wire fed gas shield welding on steel uses CO2 as a primary shielding gas rather than pure Argon or Helium. CO2 is classed as an "Active" rather than an "Inert" gas, hence MAG rather than MIG. Kind of struggling here to work out what use *any* non-inert gas would be in a welding process. The very last thing you want is oxidisation! Yup, the more refined the process, the cleaner it needs to be usually. If you want to weld through a load of rust and crap, there is not much to beat stick! True! Stick plasma blasts the living **** out of *every* contaminant known to man. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
#32
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Welding
On 15/11/2018 21:35, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 12:45:04 +0000, John Rumm wrote: Most wire fed gas shield welding on steel uses CO2 as a primary shielding gas rather than pure Argon or Helium. CO2 is classed as an "Active" rather than an "Inert" gas, hence MAG rather than MIG. Kind of struggling here to work out what use *any* non-inert gas would be in a welding process. The very last thing you want is oxidisation! It's normally for arc stability. It is normal to add a small amount of CO2 to argon as pure argon has poor arc stability. O2/argon mixes are for stability. Though only a couple of % of O2 is needed. http://www.boc-gas.com.au/en/images/...351-411245.pdf Yup, the more refined the process, the cleaner it needs to be usually. If you want to weld through a load of rust and crap, there is not much to beat stick! True! Stick plasma blasts the living **** out of *every* contaminant known to man. Never really got on well with stick welding. MIG at high currents can also weld through some surface coatings. |
#33
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Welding
Fredxx Wrote in message:
On 15/11/2018 21:35, Cursitor Doom wrote: On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 12:45:04 +0000, John Rumm wrote: Most wire fed gas shield welding on steel uses CO2 as a primary shielding gas rather than pure Argon or Helium. CO2 is classed as an "Active" rather than an "Inert" gas, hence MAG rather than MIG. Kind of struggling here to work out what use *any* non-inert gas would be in a welding process. The very last thing you want is oxidisation! It's normally for arc stability. It is normal to add a small amount of CO2 to argon as pure argon has poor arc stability. O2/argon mixes are for stability. Though only a couple of % of O2 is needed. http://www.boc-gas.com.au/en/images/...351-411245.pdf Yup, the more refined the process, the cleaner it needs to be usually. If you want to weld through a load of rust and crap, there is not much to beat stick! True! Stick plasma blasts the living **** out of *every* contaminant known to man. Never really got on well with stick welding. MIG at high currents can also weld through some surface coatings. Like weld through primer :-) -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#34
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On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:20:25 +0000, Fredxx wrote:
On 15/11/2018 21:35, Cursitor Doom wrote: On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 12:45:04 +0000, John Rumm wrote: Most wire fed gas shield welding on steel uses CO2 as a primary shielding gas rather than pure Argon or Helium. CO2 is classed as an "Active" rather than an "Inert" gas, hence MAG rather than MIG. Kind of struggling here to work out what use *any* non-inert gas would be in a welding process. The very last thing you want is oxidisation! It's normally for arc stability. It is normal to add a small amount of CO2 to argon as pure argon has poor arc stability. O2/argon mixes are for stability. Though only a couple of % of O2 is needed. For MIG welding CO2 also aids penetration so mixes for thin material only have around 5% CO2, those for thicker material around 20% Argon mixes with CO2, even at the 5% level are for all practical purposes incompatible with that required for TIG processes. But you can MIG weld with pure argon, and some claim 100% CO2 works too. What is very clear is not all ARC welding processes are the same, even with the same base material. -- |
#35
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Welding
On 15/11/2018 12:45, John Rumm wrote:
If you want to weld through a load of rust and crap, there is not much to beat stick! Oxy acetylene reduces rust back to iron. -- Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat. |
#36
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Welding
On 16/11/2018 10:50, The Other Mike wrote:
On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:20:25 +0000, Fredxx wrote: On 15/11/2018 21:35, Cursitor Doom wrote: On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 12:45:04 +0000, John Rumm wrote: Most wire fed gas shield welding on steel uses CO2 as a primary shielding gas rather than pure Argon or Helium. CO2 is classed as an "Active" rather than an "Inert" gas, hence MAG rather than MIG. Kind of struggling here to work out what use *any* non-inert gas would be in a welding process. The very last thing you want is oxidisation! It's normally for arc stability. It is normal to add a small amount of CO2 to argon as pure argon has poor arc stability. O2/argon mixes are for stability. Though only a couple of % of O2 is needed. For MIG welding CO2 also aids penetration so mixes for thin material only have around 5% CO2, those for thicker material around 20% Argon mixes with CO2, even at the 5% level are for all practical purposes incompatible with that required for TIG processes. But you can MIG weld with pure argon, and some claim 100% CO2 works too. The advantage of pure CO2 (i.e. pub gas) is that is cheep. I am told, you get good penetration, easy arc start (but less stability). Also more spatter and less pretty welds. What is very clear is not all ARC welding processes are the same, even with the same base material. IIUC, even the choice of filler metal can impact on the ideal shielding gas mix. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#37
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Welding
On 16/11/2018 10:50, The Other Mike wrote:
On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:20:25 +0000, Fredxx wrote: On 15/11/2018 21:35, Cursitor Doom wrote: On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 12:45:04 +0000, John Rumm wrote: Most wire fed gas shield welding on steel uses CO2 as a primary shielding gas rather than pure Argon or Helium. CO2 is classed as an "Active" rather than an "Inert" gas, hence MAG rather than MIG. Kind of struggling here to work out what use *any* non-inert gas would be in a welding process. The very last thing you want is oxidisation! It's normally for arc stability. It is normal to add a small amount of CO2 to argon as pure argon has poor arc stability. O2/argon mixes are for stability. Though only a couple of % of O2 is needed. For MIG welding CO2 also aids penetration so mixes for thin material only have around 5% CO2, those for thicker material around 20% Argon mixes with CO2, even at the 5% level are for all practical purposes incompatible with that required for TIG processes. The tungsten electrode is eroded more quickly in a CO2/Ar mix. I suspect the arc is otherwise fine although may give more heat penetration as per MIG welding. But you can MIG weld with pure argon, and some claim 100% CO2 works too. There is little point in using pure argon, the arc is not so stable and is more expensive. Many people do indeed use pure CO2, but more spatter and more depth. What is very clear is not all ARC welding processes are the same, even with the same base material. Agreed. |
#38
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Welding
On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:20:25 +0000, Fredxx wrote:
It's normally for arc stability. It is normal to add a small amount of CO2 to argon as pure argon has poor arc stability. O2/argon mixes are for stability. Though only a couple of % of O2 is needed. Is there any subject on earth you actually *don't* know anything about? Just curious.... -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
#39
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Welding
On 18/11/2018 20:52, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:20:25 +0000, Fredxx wrote: It's normally for arc stability. It is normal to add a small amount of CO2 to argon as pure argon has poor arc stability. O2/argon mixes are for stability. Though only a couple of % of O2 is needed. Is there any subject on earth you actually *don't* know anything about? Just curious.... I have done quite a bit of welding, consuming a few reels of wire, so have done my homework. For the last 10 years I only welded sporadically and so could only justify gasless wire. It's not ideal but is affordable and saves on bottles. More recently I have bought a bottle rent-free which I can fill when I want. Its a Argon/CO2 mix 95/5 for use with thinner steel with a less thermally conductive shielding gas, for least distortion. I originally did stick welding, where I would do 'spots' on thin material. A MIG is a dream to use and haven't looked back since. |
#40
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Welding
On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 22:53:34 +0000, Fredxx wrote:
I originally did stick welding, where I would do 'spots' on thin material. A MIG is a dream to use and haven't looked back since. MIG is no doubt the most user-friendly welding method of the lot. Very little skill required and most of that to do with just getting the set-up right. But you can't beat stick for heavy plate IMO; assuming you have a proper oil-cooled job like an Olympia or Oxford and not some Chinese "inverter- turbo" ******** contraption. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
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