RJH wrote:

what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're
out of the the EU? What will the tariffs be?

Tariffs aren't applied on exports, they're applied (if at all) on imports.

What will happen to parts logistics?

Unfortunately that won't be known until the deal is done (or no deal is
done) imported parts from EU to make cars could end up subject to
tariffs ... just like imported parts from Japan at present.

On 12/09/2018 08:32, tim... wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 11/09/2018 20:43, tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
More good news from Brexit. Jaguar will move production from the UK
to the
EU if we end up with less than the same free movement of goods as now.

as JLR sell 20% of their cars in the UK

and 20% of their cars in Europe

moving to Europe would simply mean that they have to pay tariffs on
the 20% that they export back to the UK instead of the 20% that they
export to Europe, after having paid out hundreds of millions to move
their factory

They are BLUFFING

tim





You are stupid if you believe that.

They have told you the extra costs they will suffer from if they don't
get a free trade deal and what is likely to happen.

If you want to produce figures about how much they will lose as a
result of no trade deal feel free to post some facts.

Remember its not just tariffs on cars its all the extra costs of
customs clearance and tariffs on the bits moving around before the
cars get built.

which also go both ways,

some of the parts are currently imported from rEU

some will be exported from the UK, if they move.

They might be exported from Britain, they may just source them from
within the EU as they will have less paper work and no tariffs.

This is where the jobs will go.


You don't think that the cars are built in Britain from British parts
do you?

we have a significant automotive parts "industry"

We do at the moment.


And the point is that they will have to suffer those costs in one
direction OR the other, they either pay the additional costs of selling
in the EU from the UK, or the PAY the costs of selling to the UK from
the EU.

The costs on selling a whole car are somewhat less than lots of components.


If a company does 90% of its business in rEU and 10% in the UK then it
makes sense to move, as they will effectively save the costs on 80% of
their sales

but if the UK/EU sales are the same the costs saving from moving will be
ZERO

Rubbish.
It depends on where the bits come from and what costs there are to
moving them about.
You appear to think it costs the same to move 3000 bits about as it
costs to move one.
You will discover that its a lot cheaper to move the 3000 parts around
if they are all produced in the UK than if some are exported from the
UK. You will discover this too late and jobs will go.

On 12/09/2018 15:54, tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Â* tim... wrote:
If a company does 90% of its business in rEU and 10% in the UK then it
makes sense to move, as they will effectively save the costs on 80% of
their sales

What an odd if. The biggest customer for JLR products is China. Add that
to NA sales makes it about double the sales to the EU.

yes

and as the EU does NOT have a trade deal with either of these countries
moving to the EU will not change their costs of supply to those countries

Yes it will.
The costs are in the components not in exporting a car.


Just what tariffs NA and China may apply to good from the UK after we
leave the EU isn't known.

yes it is

they will, because they MUST charge the same as they do to the EU.

Have you been asleep when ever WTO rules are discussed?

Whereas JLR already know the conditions they
export under while the UK is in the EU.

but if the UK/EU sales are the same the costs saving from moving will be
ZERO

But surely we were told leaving the EU would push up workers wages?

only at the bottom end.

So increasing costs and fuelling wage inflation.

On 12/09/2018 09:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


The point is under WTO rules britain can't be made a special case,
unless the EU does a trade deal with us. Abd why would we do a worse
deal than WTO?


Why would we do one that's worse than being in the EU?

On 12/09/2018 11:19, tim... wrote:
8

Final sales are only a small part of the picture. On average, only 41%
of the parts used in UK built cars are made in the UK.

so that's at worse 60/40 to the EU, perhaps

but what about those parts that are made in ROW?

They continue as they are now.


It may well make sense for a manufacturer to move to Europe after
Brexit, if most of their supplies come from there.

but 60/40 is hardly a game changer for a factory that going to cost 100s
of millions to move

and where, when the dust has settled, the EU will very likely come to
their senses and realise that they have to do a deal with us anyway.

Or subsidise the move of JLR to the EU.
They do that you know, give finance to get jobs into the EU.
The UK has had some of that finance to keep/move jobs to the EU.
Are you brexiteers going to put up taxes or use your own money to have
bigger subsidises to keep JLR here when they EU gives them a grant to move?

"tim..." wrote in message
news


"Josh Nack" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
news


"Josh Nack" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
news

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 11/09/2018 20:43, tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
More good news from Brexit. Jaguar will move production from the UK
to the
EU if we end up with less than the same free movement of goods as
now.

as JLR sell 20% of their cars in the UK

and 20% of their cars in Europe

moving to Europe would simply mean that they have to pay tariffs on
the 20% that they export back to the UK instead of the 20% that they
export to Europe, after having paid out hundreds of millions to move
their factory

Final sales are only a small part of the picture. On average, only
41% of the parts used in UK built cars are made in the UK.

so that's at worse 60/40 to the EU, perhaps

but what about those parts that are made in ROW?

It may well make sense for a manufacturer to move to Europe after
Brexit, if most of their supplies come from there.

but 60/40 is hardly a game changer for a factory that going to cost
100s of millions to move

and where, when the dust has settled, the EU will very likely come to
their senses and realise that they have to do a deal with us anyway.

Unlikely given that its in their interest to make it look
hard for EU members to leave the EU.

ITYF that that have already archived that

Not if they are actually stupid enough to end up with
an agreement with the UK that sees the UK with no
penalty for leaving the EU.

but we have (will) suffered a penalty for leaving

That isnt known yet.


Chequers is pants. No other county will go through this agrro for a
"chequers" deal

There is no cheques deal, Barnier has made that very clear.

it's a bluff

We'll see...

he's knows it that or no deal,

He knows nothing of the kind.

and he doesn't want no deal.

Yes, because no deal would mean no exit fee if
May gets the bums rush, as she may very well do.

OTOH no other county has the NI problem to solve, so they will actually
get a better deal from an FTA than we would.

NI is just the EU playing silly buggers.

Yep

but it's working

No its not. It has produces a great chunk of the Tories who
want to get rid of May and if that happens, the EU is ****ed.

But in any case, it's a complete fiction that they are any other
countries likely to even consider it.

Wrong.

come on them

who's in the queue

Quite a few of the net contributors apart from Germany and France,
particularly if the EU keeps forcing EU members to take their quota
of illegals instead of sending them back where they came from.

If we weren't in the EU today you would be overwhelmed in the rush of
the EU trying to make a deal with the 5th largest economy in the world
and the single largest external market for its exports.

More likely that they would prefer that that country in europe
joined the EU.

Not within their gift though, is it. An FTA is

If we do leave "without a deal" because of their nonsensical argument
that the only acceptable solution to the Irish problem is a border
down the Irish Sea,

That isnt the EU's primary motivation.

well it certainly seems like it

despite being told in no uncertain teems that "no UK Government could
ever agree to such a deal", it is the offer on the table that they
continually implore the UK to accept.

That is just their ambit
claim in an attempt to monster the UK into ending up with
something like what Norway has.

but Norway is unacceptable, as it requires FoM and paying into the EU
budget

Not going to happen either.

and if the only way that they are going to learn that is by us actually
leaving without a deal

They WILL be crawling back to make the deal that they should be making
now.

once we have left (with no border down the Irish Sea and hence one
with RoI instead) they will be screaming for a deal so that they can
do what they should be doing now - solving the Irish border problem by
a mutually acceptable trade arrangement with the UK.

The EU doesnt work like that.

but global trade does

Irrelevant to what the EU will agree to.

Of course it's not

Tis so, tis not isnt actually a viable way to discuss something.

Why are they rushing to make a deal with the 40th (ish) largest country
in the world with which they do bugger all trade,

There is no rushing.

yes they are.

Tis so, tis not isnt actually a viable way to discuss something.

if trade deals aren't worth having?

Of course they are with countries that aren't part of the EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...ade_agreements

but we wont be part of the EU

Neither are they.

But those arent involved in making it hard to leave the EU.

I repeat they have passed that point already

Repeating that lie changes nothing.

And in any case they really really really don't want a border with NI,
and no deal gets them exactly that.

NI is irrelevant, its just another EU ambit claim.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
Are you brexiteers going to put up taxes or use your own money to have
bigger subsidises to keep JLR here when they EU gives them a grant to
move?

Wonder what the sweetener was that May gave to Nissan?

--
*Can fat people go skinny-dipping?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 12/09/2018 09:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


The point is under WTO rules britain can't be made a special case, unless
the EU does a trade deal with us. Abd why would we do a worse deal than
WTO?


Why would we do one that's worse than being in the EU?

So you arent stuck with the FoM EU stupidity and other
EU stupiditys like Norway which has to pay as much into
the EU coffers as it would if it was an EU member.

**** that.

On 12/09/18 16:19, RJH wrote:

The thing is: what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're
out of the the EU? What will the tariffs be? What will happen to parts
logistics? At very best - simply unknown. I can't see how JLR can plan
on that basis.


That exactly. The supply chain alone is incredibly complex. complex
enough that often no one person understands the whole thing end to end.

There's so many unknowns that I fail to see how anyone can plan.

I once stripped down a failed heater motor from one of my cars. The
whole part was badged Valeo, but a Bosch alternative exists. The Valeo
assembly came from somewhere inside the EU, can't recall where, but
Valeo Thermal Systems production seems to be in France, according to
Google: http://www.valeo.us/the-group/valeo-worldwide.html

The motor inside was a Bosch part, made in Germany. The control unit for
climate-equipped cars, part of the assembly, can be Valeo, Bosch, or
Denso, and is manufactured in the Far East- or the one I had was.

The car was assembled at Martorell, in Spain, and obviously imported
into the UK for sale. Engines are made in Germany or Hungary, the DSG
box at Kassel in Germany etc, and of course, these units are assemblies
of parts from elsewhere, just like the heater motor is. Car manufacture
today depends on parts crossing borders many times, an JIT manufacturing
means no one holds huge amounts of stock.

JLR have, of course, just invested in an engine plant not too far from
here, north of Wolverhampton. My neighbour works there. He assembles
engines- and there's the point: /assembles/. Parts arrive from all over
the globe, and get put together. The engines then, for now, take a trip
to Castle Bromwich or Solihull to get put in a car, along with
truckloads of other bits: Probably some from Valeo, Bosch, or Magnetti
Marielli, who are all *global*. The days of Lucas making electrics
(badly) in central Birmingham and shipping it to Longbridge to fit to a
car that had it's panels pressed one side of Bristol Rd South and came
out as a complete car on the other, with an engine built in Cofton
Hackett are long gone, back in the rosy haze of 1950s-70s Britain that
exists in the minds of Brexit voters.

Another neighbour works at a small engineering firm that supplies
tooling for firms that make sub-assemblies for JLR. A UK company. I
can't see that continuing when JLR have to shift production because the
production lines at Wolverhampton & Castle Bromwich stop because they
can't get hold of Bosch injection components from Europe at the right
price and in time. Even with all the investment, JLR *will* shift
production if they need to.

On 12/09/18 16:19, RJH wrote:

The thing is: what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're
out of the the EU? What will the tariffs be? What will happen to parts
logistics? At very best - simply unknown. I can't see how JLR can plan
on that basis.

Just for example, take this:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ini-britain-eu

If a Mini, built in Oxfordshire, is sold outside the UK, the crankshaft
crosses the channel 4 times in total.

"Chris Bartram" wrote in message
news
On 12/09/18 16:19, RJH wrote:

The thing is: what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're out
of the the EU? What will the tariffs be? What will happen to parts
logistics? At very best - simply unknown. I can't see how JLR can plan on
that basis.

Just for example, take this:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ini-britain-eu

If a Mini, built in Oxfordshire, is sold outside the UK, the crankshaft
crosses the channel 4 times in total.

Stupid way to do things and explains why Korea leaves you lot for dead.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 05:36:28 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:

Why would we do one that's worse than being in the EU?

So you arent stuck with the FoM EU stupidity and other
EU stupiditys like Norway which has to pay as much into
the EU coffers as it would if it was an EU member.

**** that.

All NONE of your business, Ozzietard!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On 12/09/2018 17:23, Andy Burns wrote:
RJH wrote:

what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're out of the the
EU? What will the tariffs be?

Tariffs aren't applied on exports, they're applied (if at all) on imports.


What I mean is: what tariffs if any will, say, China impose on UK
manufactured JLR cars?

The EU is its own enormous trade lobby, and has considerable clout.
What's the quid pro quo for China when dealing with the UK? Of course,
the UK can hope a free trade deal will arise. What I'm failing to see is
why that should happen.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 12/09/2018 20:36, Rod Speed wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 12/09/2018 09:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


The point is under WTO rules britain can't be made a special case,
unless the EU does a trade deal with us. Abd why would we do a worse
deal than WTO?


Why would we do one that's worse than being in the EU?

So you arent stuck with the FoM EU stupidity and other
EU stupiditys like Norway which has to pay as much into
the EU coffers as it would if it was an EU member.


It pays because of the trade advantages. If there were none, it wouldn't
bother.


--
Cheers, Rob

"RJH" wrote in message
news
On 12/09/2018 20:36, Rod Speed wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 12/09/2018 09:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


The point is under WTO rules britain can't be made a special case,
unless the EU does a trade deal with us. Abd why would we do a worse
deal than WTO?


Why would we do one that's worse than being in the EU?

So you arent stuck with the FoM EU stupidity and other
EU stupiditys like Norway which has to pay as much into
the EU coffers as it would if it was an EU member.


It pays because of the trade advantages. If there were none, it wouldn't
bother.

Doesnt explain most of these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...ade_agreements

On 12/09/18 21:50, Chris Bartram wrote:
That exactly. The supply chain alone is incredibly complex. complex
enough that often no one person understands the whole thing end to end.

Ah. Ye perennyal crye of ye Stupide Persone.

And yet something like Btrexit is so simple even an idiot can understand
EU is best eh?


Chrost on a bike. Of COURSE spmeone understands the whole supply chain.
Its someones JOB to understand it.

And unlike the public sector, in car manufacturing if you cant do your
job you get fired, not promoted.

--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On 13/09/18 00:37, RJH wrote:
On 12/09/2018 17:23, Andy Burns wrote:
RJH wrote:

what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're out of the
the EU? What will the tariffs be?

Tariffs aren't applied on exports, they're applied (if at all) on
imports.


What I mean is: what tariffs if any will, say, China impose on UK
manufactured JLR cars?

The EU is its own enormous trade lobby, and has considerable clout.
What's the quid pro quo for China when dealing with the UK? Of course,
the UK can hope a free trade deal will arise. What I'm failing to see is
why that should happen.

And that is why you are a remoaner.

You cant see anything.



--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

RJH wrote:

What I mean is: what tariffs if any will, say, China impose on UK
manufactured JLR cars?

What tariffs do they impose today? As have no trade deal with the EU,
they can't treat the UK any differently ...

On 13/09/2018 06:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/09/18 21:50, Chris Bartram wrote:
That exactly. The supply chain alone is incredibly complex. complex
enough that often no one person understands the whole thing end to end.

Ah. Ye perennyal crye of ye Stupide Persone.


Brilliant response.

It's true, whether you think so or not. JLR will, of course, understand
where, say, their engine ECUs come from, obviously, but they don't know
where (for example) the capacitors come from inside it, because that's
the job of Bosch, Magnetti Marielli or whoever, or maybe even another
sub level.

Things that are appear quite simple are often more complex than thay
appear. Like, say, Brexit.

And yet something like Btrexit is so simple even an idiot can understand
EU is best eh?


There's the problem. Many Brexiters think *exactly* that it is that
simple, except of course they believe the reverse.

They thought that we could just tell Europe to **** off and we'd have an
empire back, give the jerries a good kicking and Britain would be great
again, and we'd all be home for sandwiches and ginger beer. paid for
with the change from the £350 million we'd get from the side of as bus.
We'd have no more Muslims, no east Europeans "stealing our jobs" etc,
etc, etc and there would be no downside.

The EU has plenty of problems, but people were mis-sold Brexit as a
win-win situation when it is increasingly clear that is not the case.


Chrost on a bike. Of COURSE spmeone understands the whole supply chain.
Its someones JOB to understand it.

It's someone's job to manage their suppliers. In turn, that supplier
manages theirs. They manage their parts of the chain and maintain
multiple suppliers in case of a problem with one. It's not even just a
job. There's degrees in it. I'm pretty sure you're educated to degree
level: for a subject to have a degree course dedicated to it, I think
you'd have to agree there has to be a certain depth of complexity?


And unlike the public sector, in car manufacturing if you cant do your
job you get fired, not promoted.


Yes, the private sector is universally full of efficient, capable
employees, no wasters at all. I've noticed that.

"RJH" wrote in message
news
On 12/09/2018 17:23, Andy Burns wrote:
RJH wrote:

what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're out of the the
EU? What will the tariffs be?

Tariffs aren't applied on exports, they're applied (if at all) on
imports.


What I mean is: what tariffs if any will, say, China impose on UK
manufactured JLR cars?

the same as they will impose on cars manufactured in rEU

that's the immutable rule.

If JLR don't know what tariffs will be imposed by ROW whilst manufacturing
in the UK they wont know what tariffs are going to be imposed by ROW whilst
manufacturing in rEU either.

and the good thing going forwards about being in an "independent" UK is that
there is more chance of a trade deal lowering those tariffs by staying in
the UK than by moving to the EU.

The ROW argument is completely irrelevant here, it's only the EU/UK mix that
matters.

tim

On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 09:56:27 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:


So you arent stuck with the FoM EU stupidity and other
EU stupiditys like Norway which has to pay as much into
the EU coffers as it would if it was an EU member.


It pays because of the trade advantages. If there were none, it wouldn't
bother.

Doesn¢t explain most of these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...ade_agreements

The EU is none of your business, you cretinous senile troll from Oz!

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shippe the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

On 13/09/2018 08:14, Andy Burns wrote:
RJH wrote:

What I mean is: what tariffs if any will, say, China impose on UK
manufactured JLR cars?

What tariffs do they impose today? As have no trade deal with the EU,
they can't treat the UK any differently ...



Yes they can.
They can charge less than WTO if they want.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 13/09/2018 08:14, Andy Burns wrote:
RJH wrote:

What I mean is: what tariffs if any will, say, China impose on UK
manufactured JLR cars?

What tariffs do they impose today? As have no trade deal with the EU,
they can't treat the UK any differently ...



Yes they can.
They can charge less than WTO if they want.

There is no WTO tariff, ****wit.

On 12/09/2018 21:50, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 12/09/18 16:19, RJH wrote:

Even with all the investment, JLR *will* shift
production if they need to.


They will move if it is economic to do so.

Extra costs spent on the supply chain make it more likely to move.
Grants from the EU to move jobs to the EU make it more likely to move.
Therefore brexit makes it more likely to move.

UK government subsidise make it less likely to move.

So how much tax payers money are brexiteers prepared to give JLR to stay
and for how long?
Brexiteers must be true socialists as they want to spend other peoples
money on saving themselves from the cock up.

On 13/09/2018 06:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/09/18 21:50, Chris Bartram wrote:
That exactly. The supply chain alone is incredibly complex. complex
enough that often no one person understands the whole thing end to end.

Ah. Ye perennyal crye of ye Stupide Persone.

And yet something like Btrexit is so simple even an idiot can understand
EU is best eh?


Chrost on a bike. Of COURSE spmeone understands the whole supply chain.
Its someones JOB to understand it.

That would be why business employ trouble shooters to find why the
supply chain has broken! They wouldn't need to if someone understood it
all would they?

On 13/09/2018 08:17, Chris Bartram wrote:

It's someone's job to manage their suppliers. In turn, that supplier
manages theirs. They manage their parts of the chain and maintain
multiple suppliers in case of a problem with one. It's not even just a
job. There's degrees in it. I'm pretty sure you're educated to degree
level: for a subject to have a degree course dedicated to it, I think
you'd have to agree there has to be a certain depth of complexity?

I know of one place that put their bit of supply chain on white boards
stuck to the wall of the warehouse.
Its currently about 2 metres high and 120 metres long and they haven't
finished.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 19:51:25 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

What tariffs do they impose today? As have no trade deal with the EU,
they can't treat the UK any differently ...



Yes they can.
They can charge less than WTO if they want.

There is no WTO tariff, ****wit.

The WTO administers the tariffs, you pesky senile Ozzie troll!

--
Cursitor Doom about Rot Speed:
"The man is a conspicuous and unashamed ignoramus."
MID:

On 13/09/2018 09:13, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Chris Bartram
wrote:

On 12/09/18 16:19, RJH wrote:

The thing is: what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're
out of the the EU? What will the tariffs be? What will happen to
parts logistics? At very best - simply unknown. I can't see how JLR
can plan on that basis.

Just for example, take this:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...dustry-mini-br

itain-eu

If a Mini, built in Oxfordshire, is sold outside the UK, the
crankshaft crosses the channel 4 times in total.

This is interesting but not relevant.


Its not relevant to a brexiteer because they don't want it to be.

Reality is different.

On 13/09/2018 08:14, Andy Burns wrote:
RJH wrote:

What I mean is: what tariffs if any will, say, China impose on UK
manufactured JLR cars?

What tariffs do they impose today? As have no trade deal with the EU,
they can't treat the UK any differently ...



Of course there's a trade arrangement - it isn't just a free flow of
goods and services. For example:

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/cou...untries/china/

--
Cheers, Rob

On 13/09/2018 10:51, Rod Speed wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 13/09/2018 08:14, Andy Burns wrote:
RJH wrote:

What I mean is: what tariffs if any will, say, China impose on UK
manufactured JLR cars?

What tariffs do they impose today? As have no trade deal with the EU,
they can't treat the UK any differently ...



Yes they can.
They can charge less than WTO if they want.

There is no WTO tariff, ****wit.


Not quite the contradiction you imply - but see the link I referred to
above. The WTO 'langauge' is used to frame a good deal of what goes on.

But that's not my point - the UK exports a fair amount to China - and of
course the UK imports a load back. But substitute 'EU' for 'UK' - how
will the trade arrangements change?

As I see it, once we lose the power and influence of the EU juggernaut
we'll be far easier to kick around. I'd just like to see arguments to
convince me otherwise.

I've read in outline the Canada+ proposals - Canada's nothing like
applicable to the UK as I see it.

--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
Chris Bartram wrote:
The thing is: what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're
out of the the EU? What will the tariffs be? What will happen to parts
logistics? At very best - simply unknown. I can't see how JLR can plan
on that basis.


That exactly. The supply chain alone is incredibly complex. complex
enough that often no one person understands the whole thing end to end.

[snip]

Thanks Chris. Put far more succinctly than I could. What is so sad is
those who should know about such things, ie the Boris of this world,
simply keep their heads in the sand and say it is beyond them.

We are in a global market. We should be trying to exploit that to our
benefit where we can. Not trying to turn the clock back to before it
existed. And in the same way as JLR needs its suppliers as sort of
partners where both benefit, so does the UK.

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Dave Plowman London SW
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In article ,
RJH wrote:
he EU is its own enormous trade lobby, and has considerable clout.
What's the quid pro quo for China when dealing with the UK? Of course,
the UK can hope a free trade deal will arise. What I'm failing to see is
why that should happen.

+1. We are a tiny market compared to the EU. Even although an important
one within it. The idea we can 'beat' the EU at its own game just a dream
of stupid old men.

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Dave Plowman London SW
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In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/09/18 21:50, Chris Bartram wrote:
That exactly. The supply chain alone is incredibly complex. complex
enough that often no one person understands the whole thing end to end.

Ah. Ye perennyal crye of ye Stupide Persone.

And yet something like Btrexit is so simple even an idiot can understand
EU is best eh?

On a simple choice, yes. Which is why Brexiteers had to fudge the issue
with emotive things like sovereignty and secure borders and so on. When
even they are now admitting it meant precisely zero, in terms of what the
man in the street understood by them.


Chrost on a bike. Of COURSE spmeone understands the whole supply chain.
Its someones JOB to understand it.

But not those in parliament who are opposing a practical deal. They - the
likes of Rees Mogg - don't give a toss for how many UK jobs might be lost.

And unlike the public sector, in car manufacturing if you cant do your
job you get fired, not promoted.

Then, pray tell, why aren't you listening to the bosses of such
industries? Is it some form of death wish?

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
What I mean is: what tariffs if any will, say, China impose on UK
manufactured JLR cars?

What tariffs do they impose today? As have no trade deal with the EU,
they can't treat the UK any differently ...

Really? Both the US and China seem to be sprinkling around tariffs willy
nilly. Not heard much from the WTO about those, have we?

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Chris Bartram
wrote:

On 12/09/18 16:19, RJH wrote:

The thing is: what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're
out of the the EU? What will the tariffs be? What will happen to parts
logistics? At very best - simply unknown. I can't see how JLR can plan
on that basis.

Just for example, take this:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...dustry-mini-br
itain-eu

If a Mini, built in Oxfordshire, is sold outside the UK, the crankshaft
crosses the channel 4 times in total.

This is interesting but not relevant.

Odd the way secure borders were oh so relevant to Brexiteers just a few
weeks ago. Now apparently they're not. Any goods will be able to move as
freely once out of the EU as before. Even with a hard Brexit.

Of course the EU might actually have something to say about that. I doubt
they want stuff from an unregulated UK being allowed free access to them.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Both the US and China seem to be sprinkling around tariffs willy
nilly. Not heard much from the WTO about those, have we?

https://www.wto.org/english/news_e/news18_e/ds556rfc_12jul18_e.htm

On Thursday, 13 September 2018 16:26:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Chris Bartram
wrote:

On 12/09/18 16:19, RJH wrote:

The thing is: what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're
out of the the EU? What will the tariffs be? What will happen to parts
logistics? At very best - simply unknown. I can't see how JLR can plan
on that basis.

Just for example, take this:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...dustry-mini-br
itain-eu

If a Mini, built in Oxfordshire, is sold outside the UK, the crankshaft
crosses the channel 4 times in total.

This is interesting but not relevant.

Odd the way secure borders were oh so relevant to Brexiteers just a few
weeks ago. Now apparently they're not. Any goods will be able to move as
freely once out of the EU as before. Even with a hard Brexit.

I'm not certain the Brexiteers wanted the borders closed to goods, they seemed to want immagration controlled, not stoped or halted like remoaners have claimed.

I don't remmeber any protests at boarders about stopping wine or cheese coming to the UK, I DO rememeber the French burning british sheep.

https://www.apnews.com/8bfc0cd5b74bb238fce6c8c64af416d6





Of course the EU might actually have something to say about that. I doubt
they want stuff from an unregulated UK being allowed free access to them.

What makes you think the UK is unregulated ?

There was a recent claim by animal rights activists that T. May said she didn't think animals felt pain, and that's why the UK rejected the 'law' as we already had a law which prevents cruelty like drugging bulls and allowing sportsman to throw spears at them, and foregra or whatever it;s called where you false feed birds so some of their organs expand and that become a french delacacy , totaly OK perhaps because the EU doesn't think birds or bulls are sentient animals.

So I;m not sure how the EU can be considered better for animals than the UK..




--
*It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats*

Dave Plowman London SW
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On 11/09/2018 18:23, TimW wrote:
On 11/09/18 17:58, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

More good news from Brexit. Jaguar will move production from the UK
to the
EU if we end up with less than the same free movement of goods as now.

You've overlooked the "if" in their statement, nobody knows how that
will end up, so just sit tight?

The aussies (who have more recent experience at negotiating trade
deals than us) claim you should ignore everything that's said before
the final three weeks to the deadline as posturing ...


That's alright then. We will have a bit more total uncertainty, that's
all. Just keep loading the freezer with food and medicine and hope not
to lose your job. No worries there?

It's become a complete joke. I hear the people of North Somerset are
going to form a mob of sans-cullottes to scale the walls of the
Reely-Smug estate and burn his chateau.

Tim w



freezer no good when electricity goes off.

On 13/09/2018 16:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Both the US and China seem to be sprinkling around tariffs willy
nilly. Not heard much from the WTO about those, have we?

https://www.wto.org/english/news_e/news18_e/ds556rfc_12jul18_e.htm

Ha - good luck with that.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 13/09/18 12:29, RJH wrote:
As I see it, once we lose the power and influence of the EU juggernaut
we'll be far easier to kick around.

We are already being kicked around by the EU.



--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.