On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 09:23:56 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

The other thing to remember is that damage scales as the square of the
mass ratio which is why you should never pick a fight with an HGV.

Another suspect statement.

"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 09:23:56 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

The other thing to remember is that damage scales as the square of the
mass ratio which is why you should never pick a fight with an HGV.

Another suspect statement.

If damage is proportional to energy dissipated, then kinetic energy is 1/2 m
v(^2), so proportional to mass but proportional to square of speed.

But I agree with "you should never pick a fight with an HGV".

On 26/07/2018 21:41, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 21:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 19:35:07 +0100, ARW wrote:

Do you keep your foot on the brakes so that you don't get pushed
into
the car in front

Didn't we have a discussion about this not that long ago?

But here is my dashcam footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRy...ature=youtu.be



Ouch, he gave you quite a whack, the groan doesn't sound like a "oh
WTF is the damage" but a "ow, that wasn't very comfortable".

Right at the end when I got out of the van?

It was a bit uncomfortable.



Whiplash compo claim co's will pester you for years

mechanic wrote:

Any statement on here involving physics/mechanics is immediately
suspect.

The more friction is involved (brakes and tyres) the less elastic the
collision, therefore the less momentum is conserved ...

On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 18:43:24 +0100, ARW wrote:

You know that you are going to get arse ended.

Do you keep your foot on the brakes so that you don't get pushed into
the car in front or do keep your foot off the brake and have two bumps
but of less severity?

Back in the day (when cars had real chrome bumpers attached to a chassis,
not modern plastic crumple stuff) the theory was that you rolled gently
forward until your bumper touched the car in front.

The impact then was transferred through your chassis to the car in front
and allegedly you didn't get your front and the back of the other car
smashed up - just the back of your car.

Think of the chrome balls toy (Newton's Cradle?), where the first ball
hits the row of balls and the one at the other end shoots away with the
middle ones not moving.

Thankfully I've never had to try this.

Cheers


Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 27/07/2018 16:27, NY wrote:
"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 09:23:56 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

The other thing to remember is that damage scales as the square of the
mass ratio which is why you should never pick a fight with an HGV.

Another suspect statement.

If damage is proportional to energy dissipated, then kinetic energy is
1/2 m v(^2), so proportional to mass but proportional to square of speed.

But I agree with "you should never pick a fight with an HGV".

There is also the height, HGVs tend to go on top of cars and the crush
zones don't really work well when there is ten tonne on top of a car.

On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 19:35:07 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 26/07/2018 19:02, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Do you keep your foot on the brakes so that you don't get pushed into
the car in front

Yes, so that there's no doubt it's all the idiot behind's fault.

Note at the very end of the video what pulls up. Driver jumps out and
give me a card with his details and says that was on my dashcam. I'll
get it tommorow.

(I don't think I've seen mention ... ) So that wasn't the vehicle that
hit you? (Looked like a recovery truck?) Getting his own business? ;-)

But here is my dashcam footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRy...ature=youtu.be

It could be the perspective of the dash cam but it looks like you were
sitting quite a bit short of the vehicle in front and it was moving
away but you hadn't (nothing wrong with that of course) but what was
the size (height) of the vehicle that hit you?

eg. If it was something that could see over your van (a bigger van or
truck), could it be that they actually accelerated into you (rather
than failed to brake), assuming you would pull away with the other
vehicle(s)? Or didn't brake as much for the same reason?

Cheers, T i m

On 27/07/2018 16:30, Andrew wrote:
On 26/07/2018 21:41, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 21:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 19:35:07 +0100, ARW wrote:

Do you keep your foot on the brakes so that you don't get pushed
into
the car in front

Didn't we have a discussion about this not that long ago?

But here is my dashcam footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRy...ature=youtu.be



Ouch, he gave you quite a whack, the groan doesn't sound like a "oh
WTF is the damage" but a "ow, that wasn't very comfortable".

Right at the end when I got out of the van?

It was a bit uncomfortable.



Whiplash compo claim co's will pester you for years

I feel fine today and I have no intentions what so ever of making a claim.

--
Adam

On 27/07/2018 18:22, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 19:35:07 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 26/07/2018 19:02, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Do you keep your foot on the brakes so that you don't get pushed into
the car in front

Yes, so that there's no doubt it's all the idiot behind's fault.

Note at the very end of the video what pulls up. Driver jumps out and
give me a card with his details and says that was on my dashcam. I'll
get it tommorow.

(I don't think I've seen mention ... ) So that wasn't the vehicle that
hit you? (Looked like a recovery truck?) Getting his own business? ;-)

But here is my dashcam footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRy...ature=youtu.be

It could be the perspective of the dash cam but it looks like you were
sitting quite a bit short of the vehicle in front and it was moving
away but you hadn't (nothing wrong with that of course) but what was
the size (height) of the vehicle that hit you?

eg. If it was something that could see over your van (a bigger van or
truck), could it be that they actually accelerated into you (rather
than failed to brake), assuming you would pull away with the other
vehicle(s)? Or didn't brake as much for the same reason?

Traffic came to a quickish slow down from about 40 MPH to walking speed.

It was a Golf that hit me.


--
Adam

On 26/07/2018 22:14, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 21:41:34 +0100, ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRy...ature=youtu.be

Ouch, he gave you quite a whack, the groan doesn't sound like a
"oh
WTF is the damage" but a "ow, that wasn't very comfortable".

Right at the end when I got out of the van?

It was a bit uncomfortable.

Well I don't know what you where doing, can only see straight
ahead... The van had been stationary for a second or so and the white
car in front was driving off, completely unaware of what was going on
behind them.



Piccies of the van.

And that is NOT a plastic bumper that has been shoved in 6 inches.

There is steel under that bumper

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van1.jpg

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van2.jpg

--
Adam

On 27/07/2018 19:36, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 22:14, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 21:41:34 +0100, ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRy...ature=youtu.be

Ouch, he gave you quite a whack, the groan doesn't sound like a
"oh
WTF is the damage" but a "ow, that wasn't very comfortable".

Right at the end when I got out of the van?

It was a bit uncomfortable.

Well I don't know what you where doing, can only see straight
ahead... The van had been stationary for a second or so and the white
car in front was driving off, completely unaware of what was going on
behind them.



Piccies of the van.

And that is NOT a plastic bumper that has been shoved in 6 inches.

There is steel under that bumper

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van1.jpg

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van2.jpg

Is there any reason why you blanked out part of the registration in the
second photo that is visible in the first photo?

I can even see the MOT expires on the 12th June, and that it failed with
two major defects this year! What have you been doing in your van to
break a spring?

"Fredxx" wrote in message
news
On 27/07/2018 19:36, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 22:14, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 21:41:34 +0100, ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRy...ature=youtu.be

Ouch, he gave you quite a whack, the groan doesn't sound like a
"oh
WTF is the damage" but a "ow, that wasn't very comfortable".

Right at the end when I got out of the van?

It was a bit uncomfortable.

Well I don't know what you where doing, can only see straight
ahead... The van had been stationary for a second or so and the white
car in front was driving off, completely unaware of what was going on
behind them.



Piccies of the van.

And that is NOT a plastic bumper that has been shoved in 6 inches.

There is steel under that bumper

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van1.jpg

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van2.jpg

Is there any reason why you blanked out part of the registration in the
second photo that is visible in the first photo?

I can even see the MOT expires on the 12th June, and that it failed with
two major defects this year! What have you been doing in your van to break
a spring?

Letting lard arse apprentices sit in it.

On 27/07/2018 19:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/07/2018 19:36, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 22:14, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 21:41:34 +0100, ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRy...ature=youtu.be

Ouch, he gave you quite a whack, the groan doesn't sound like a
"oh
WTF is the damage" but a "ow, that wasn't very comfortable".

Right at the end when I got out of the van?

It was a bit uncomfortable.

Well I don't know what you where doing, can only see straight
ahead... The van had been stationary for a second or so and the white
car in front was driving off, completely unaware of what was going on
behind them.



Piccies of the van.

And that is NOT a plastic bumper that has been shoved in 6 inches.

There is steel under that bumper

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van1.jpg

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van2.jpg

Is there any reason why you blanked out part of the registration in the
second photo that is visible in the first photo?

I can even see the MOT expires on the 12th June, and that it failed with
two major defects this year! What have you been doing in your van to
break a spring?



I only got the van 4 weeks ago.


--
Adam

On 26/07/2018 19:58, Graham. wrote:
On 26/07/2018 19:02, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Do you keep your foot on the brakes so that you don't get pushed into
the car in front

Yes, so that there's no doubt it's all the idiot behind's fault.

Note at the very end of the video what pulls up. Driver jumps out and
give me a card with his details and says that was on my dashcam. I'll
get it tommorow.


That's nice of him, further proof that he was liable.




Gold dust or hens teeth?

The £50 dash cam really has been really good in this case.

The dash cam records sound inside the van.

Now I have a Bluetooth Buddy so I can make hands free calls and that
uses a loudspeaker inside the van.

Just checked the rest of my dash cam footage after the accident.


About 15 minutes after the accident the other car driver called me and
said "sorry it was my fault can we do it without using the insurance
I'll pay for it all"


So I have dash cam footage right from the accident up to and including
his phone call. The time and date of his phone call is of course logged
on my phone.


--
Adam

On 27/07/2018 19:22, ARW wrote:
On 27/07/2018 16:30, Andrew wrote:
On 26/07/2018 21:41, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 21:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 19:35:07 +0100, ARW wrote:

Do you keep your foot on the brakes so that you don't get pushed
into
the car in front

Didn't we have a discussion about this not that long ago?

But here is my dashcam footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRy...ature=youtu.be



Ouch, he gave you quite a whack, the groan doesn't sound like a "oh
WTF is the damage" but a "ow, that wasn't very comfortable".

Right at the end when I got out of the van?

It was a bit uncomfortable.



Whiplash compo claim co's will pester you for years

I feel fine today and I have no intentions what so ever of making a claim.

If you feel fine within days, you are fine. I have genuinely had
whiplash and it is bloody painful and restrictive for months.

The first time I was hit, it hurt for a couple of days. The second
didn't hurt at all. The third however was bad.

It stopped me sleeping, as it woke me up with the pain every time I
moved in my sleep. Just when I thought I was back to normal (three
months after) a bit of physical effort (digging an 18" square hole,
about 24" deep to access a leaking soil-pipe elbow) triggered it off and
I ended up in bed, but awake and exhausted for three days. It took six
months before I was back to normal and able to work full hours
(including overtime) again!

I did claim for the lost hours of pay - I could show my timesheets from
before and after, right up to recovery.

SteveW

On 27/07/2018 09:23, Martin Brown wrote:
On 26/07/2018 18:43, ARW wrote:

You know that you are going to get arse ended.

It is a rather annoying situation to find yourself in. Our driver was
able to give a countdown of time to impact as the driver behind
continued his animated conversation with his passenger until it was too
late. He did brake at the very last minute dipping his bonnet which got
neatly peeled back to the windscreen. Cars vital fluids all dropped out.

It is really annoying to be a sitting duck at the tail end of a motorway
contraflow queue with nowhere to go. We were conveniently in front of
the place where the recovery vehicles were parked up!

Do you keep your foot on the brakes so that you don't get pushed into
the car in front or do keep your foot off the brake and have two bumps
but of less severity?

If you are already stationary then both handbrake and footbrake on to
maximum and head back against the headrest. You want to offer as much
resistance to forward acceleration as you can muster. It may well
destroy the car that impacts behind you but that isn't your problem ;-)

Think of Newton's cradle. In the extreme case of offering no resistance
and perfectly elastic collisions you get pummelled again and again as
you hit the vehicles on either side of you repeatedly and bounce off.

The other thing to remember is that damage scales as the square of the
mass ratio which is why you should never pick a fight with an HGV. A car
was made airborne in a recent A19 crash which closed it for half a day.

The car I saw on the M62 some years ago consisted of an intact car from
the front of the car to the B-pillar ... and a tipper truck from the
B-pillar backwards! I really hope that there was no-one in the back -
most likely not, as it was rush-hour.

SteveW

On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 19:28:20 +0100, ARW
wrote:

snip

eg. If it was something that could see over your van (a bigger van or
truck), could it be that they actually accelerated into you (rather
than failed to brake), assuming you would pull away with the other
vehicle(s)? Or didn't brake as much for the same reason?

Traffic came to a quickish slow down from about 40 MPH to walking speed.

Ok.

It was a Golf that hit me.

Ah. Just wondered ... (thanks).

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
ARW writes:
You know that you are going to get arse ended.

Do you keep your foot on the brakes so that you don't get pushed into
the car in front or do keep your foot off the brake and have two bumps
but of less severity?

I had to make that split-second decision once.
I was stationary in a queue for traffic lights, but we were about to
pull off, so I was just putting car into gear.
Saw vehicle behind approaching sufficiently fast they obviously hadn't
noticed we were stationary, and then it went into a 4-wheel skid when
the driver noticed.

I used the fact I was just going into gear to shoot myself forward and
close the gap with car in front and then stepped hard on my brakes.
Car behind didn't hit, but had turned sideways and was close enough he
couldn't open his door wide enough to get out, so my shooting forward
did avoid a collision.

However, I thought long and hard about it afterwards and decided I was
very lucky, because closing the gap meant I was much more likely to be
shunted into the car in front. If that had happened, I would have been
driving (as opposed to stationary) when hit and it might have been harder
to blame it all on the car behind me.

Given one bump or two, I would opt for one bump, particularly given a
rear ending is much more obviously the other guy's fault than a front-
end shunt. If multiple cars are involved in a shunt, insurance companies
can declare it a "multiple shunt" and everyone is responsible for damage
to their own vehicle rather than the guy at the back paying for all of
it (e.g. motorway pile-ups). It avoids having to have that argument.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 27/07/18 19:36, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 22:14, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 21:41:34 +0100, ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRy...ature=youtu.be

Ouch, he gave you quite a whack, the groan doesn't sound like a
"oh
WTF is the damage" but a "ow, that wasn't very comfortable".

Right at the end when I got out of the van?

It was a bit uncomfortable.

Well I don't know what you where doing, can only see straight
ahead... The van had been stationary for a second or so and the white
car in front was driving off, completely unaware of what was going on
behind them.



Piccies of the van.

And that is NOT a plastic bumper that has been shoved in 6 inches.

There is steel under that bumper

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van1.jpg

Nice ladder. Be sure to check that it is securely attached to the van
when you travel.


http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van2.jpg

"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 27/07/2018 19:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/07/2018 19:36, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 22:14, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 21:41:34 +0100, ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjRy...ature=youtu.be

Ouch, he gave you quite a whack, the groan doesn't sound like a
"oh
WTF is the damage" but a "ow, that wasn't very comfortable".

Right at the end when I got out of the van?

It was a bit uncomfortable.

Well I don't know what you where doing, can only see straight
ahead... The van had been stationary for a second or so and the white
car in front was driving off, completely unaware of what was going on
behind them.



Piccies of the van.

And that is NOT a plastic bumper that has been shoved in 6 inches.

There is steel under that bumper

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van1.jpg

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Van2.jpg

Is there any reason why you blanked out part of the registration in the
second photo that is visible in the first photo?

I can even see the MOT expires on the 12th June, and that it failed with
two major defects this year! What have you been doing in your van to
break a spring?



I only got the van 4 weeks ago.

Why is that with the utterly obscene record you have got
with those Fiat vans ? Why do they keep getting more of
them. Or was it the replacement for one that ended up
being such a lemon that the main dealer had no choice
but to give the operation you work for a brand new one.

"Chris Bartram" wrote in message
news
On 26/07/2018 18:43, ARW wrote:
You know that you are going to get arse ended.

Do you keep your foot on the brakes so that you don't get pushed into the
car in front or do keep your foot off the brake and have two bumps but of
less severity?

Keep the brakes on. The back's getting hit anyway, might as well save the
front (and the complexity of another party involved).

OTOH if it is fully insured, with the right type of policy, you can
make a case that you want it damaged at both ends so that it
will be a write-off and you will get a brand new car from either
the insurance company of the one who caused the accident
or your own insurance. And if you do lose your no claim bonus
because the driver who caused the accident doesnt have
optional insurance, you're going to lose that anyway even
if you do keep the brakes on.

In article , NY
writes
"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 09:23:56 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

The other thing to remember is that damage scales as the square of the
mass ratio which is why you should never pick a fight with an HGV.

Another suspect statement.

If damage is proportional to energy dissipated, then kinetic energy is
1/2 m v(^2), so proportional to mass but proportional to square of
speed.

But I agree with "you should never pick a fight with an HGV".
Or if you must, make sure it is a *very* slowly moving HGV?
--
bert

On 26/07/2018 19:19, Steve Walker wrote:
On 26/07/2018 19:02, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 18:54, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
ARW wrote:
You know that you are going to get arse ended.

Do you keep your foot on the brakes so that you don't get pushed into
the car in front or do keep your foot off the brake and have two bumps
but of less severity?

Why do you need to ask?


Because today I decided to keep my foot on the brake so that I would
not hit the car in front.

I am just wondering if I would be a little less sore had I let my foot
off the brake.

I'd say you'd be more sore, as your vehicle would have accelerated
faster and then decellerated rapidly when it hit the vehicle in front.
With the brakes on, you'll have accelerated slower and decellerated
slower so less force acting on you.

SteveW

That's what I would say too. Another tip if you know you are going to be
shunted is to brace yourself pressing your back against the seat and
head against the neck-rest which should reduce the risk of whiplash.
It's the opposite of the aeroplane crash case where you want to get your
head down and foreward.

On 27/07/2018 19:59, Fredxx wrote:
I can even see the MOT expires on the 12th June, and that it failed with
two major defects this year! What have you been doing in your van to
break a spring?

Getting another form of whiplash ??. :-)

On 27/07/2018 22:27, ARW wrote:
"sorry it was my fault can we do it without using the insurance I'll pay
for it all"

The damage to your van must have made a golf undriveable though,
so why would he want to avoid an insurance claim ?.

Something suspicious here.

Andrew wrote
ARW wrote

"sorry it was my fault can we do it without using the insurance I'll pay
for it all"

The damage to your van must have made a golf undriveable though,

Not necessarily.

so why would he want to avoid an insurance claim ?.

So he doesnt lose his no claim bonus and become uninsurable
because he has a long history of stupid accidents like that.

Something suspicious here.

Nope. Just someone with a clue who knows that it wont
cost a lot to fix adams van.

On 29/07/2018 13:37, Andrew wrote:
On 27/07/2018 22:27, ARW wrote:
"sorry it was my fault can we do it without using the insurance I'll
pay for it all"

The damage to your van must have made a golf undriveable though,
so why would he want to avoid an insurance claim ?.

Something suspicious here.

I'll bet Bill Wright could have a good guess.


--
Adam

On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 06:03:14 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:


Not necessarily.

LOL You senile oaf just keep babbling and babbling, regardless of whether
people either ignore you or keep telling you what a sick asshole you are!
Eh, lonely Rot? LMAO!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: