I want to remove a UPVC window and having hacked off one side of plaster on the inside I was expecting to find cleats similar to these securing the window to the internal wall leaf:

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-uPVC...of-10/p/180130

But I didn't see anything of the kind:

http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/loungewindow1.jpg
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/loungewindow2.jpg
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/loungewindow3.jpg
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/loungewindow4.jpg

The vertical plastic piece (held in with two nails and a bit of plasterboard adhesive overspill) looks to me like it it some sort of cavity closer and its profile is such that I can't see how any sort of straight cleat could pass through/behind it. I certainly can't see anything on the exposed blockwork.

Any ideas how this window is secured in place? Incidentally, the inside of the frame shows no obvious fixings passing through to anything either.

I will continue to hack away when I can find a moment, and will look to remove the window ledge also in case there's anything under there (I wouldn't expect there to be as it'd also require something along the top which doesn't seem like a good place to secure a window what with the lintel above it)..

Mathew Newton wrote:

I want to remove a UPVC window and having hacked off one side of
plaster on the inside I was expecting to find cleats similar to these
securing the window to the internal wall leaf:
Normally just frame fixings straight through the, erm frame, into the
masonry, can you see evidence of them on any openers?

The vertical plastic piece (held in with two nails and a bit of
plasterboard adhesive overspill) looks to me like it it some sort of
cavity closer
Exactly that.

Any ideas how this window is secured in place? Incidentally, the
inside of the frame shows no obvious fixings passing through to
anything either.
I'd expect to see them there, you do hear of some of them being
installed with foam only ...

On Sunday, 22 July 2018 18:19:06 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:

Normally just frame fixings straight through the, erm frame, into the
masonry, can you see evidence of them on any openers?

Nothing on the opener, although I haven't remove the fixing glazing panel yet but I might just do that as surely anything inside that section will be obvious given the lack of need for any other fixings or hiding things for aesthetics.

I'd expect to see them there, you do hear of some of them being
installed with foam only ...

This a Persimmon house from 2007 so who knows! ;-) That said, I have honestly found the rest to be fairly well built and so if foam-only might be considered a bodge I think I'd be surprised if it had been done here.

On Sunday, 22 July 2018 18:25:24 UTC+1, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Sunday, 22 July 2018 18:19:06 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:

Normally just frame fixings straight through the, erm frame, into the
masonry, can you see evidence of them on any openers?

Nothing on the opener, although I haven't remove the fixing glazing panel yet but I might just do that as surely anything inside that section will be obvious given the lack of need for any other fixings or hiding things for aesthetics.

I'd expect to see them there, you do hear of some of them being
installed with foam only ...

This a Persimmon house from 2007 so who knows! ;-) That said, I have honestly found the rest to be fairly well built and so if foam-only might be considered a bodge I think I'd be surprised if it had been done here.

I'd expect either foam fixing, which I'd expect you to have noticed by now, or frame fixers going through the frame. You'd need to remove the glazed unit to see those.


NT

wrote:

frame fixers going through the frame. You'd need to remove the glazed
unit to see those.
I'd have though he'd be unlucky to not find one in the frame within the
opener

On Sunday, 22 July 2018 18:40:38 UTC+1, wrote:

I'd expect either foam fixing, which I'd expect you to have noticed by now, or frame fixers going through the frame. You'd need to remove the glazed unit to see those.

I am wondering if I might have one of these; a combined cavity closer / former / fixer:

http://archive.profile22.co.uk/wp-co...ser-System.pdf

This particular one uses small camlocks to the keep the window in place:

http://archive.profile22.co.uk/wp-co...013/09/247.jpg

That said, I'm not seeing anything like these cams on mine though!

Remove the glass panel and you will find the fixing screws there.

Richard

Andy Burns Wrote in message:
wrote:

frame fixers going through the frame. You'd need to remove the glazed
unit to see those.
I'd have though he'd be unlucky to not find one in the frame within the
opener


+1 Indeed, a voice of real experience :-)
--
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Jim K


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On Sunday, 22 July 2018 18:49:20 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:

frame fixers going through the frame. You'd need to remove the glazed
unit to see those.
I'd have though he'd be unlucky to not find one in the frame within the
opener

yes, but it's one of the very few options left.


NT

wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I'd have though he'd be unlucky to not find one in the frame within the
opener

yes, but it's one of the very few options left.

Get out Occam's sledgehammer ...

Hmm, well some only have a few screws with spacers and then the rest is full
of foam and then plastered over. I think my Kitchen window is like this.
Brian

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"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Mathew Newton wrote:

I want to remove a UPVC window and having hacked off one side of
plaster on the inside I was expecting to find cleats similar to these
securing the window to the internal wall leaf:
Normally just frame fixings straight through the, erm frame, into the
masonry, can you see evidence of them on any openers?

The vertical plastic piece (held in with two nails and a bit of
plasterboard adhesive overspill) looks to me like it it some sort of
cavity closer
Exactly that.

Any ideas how this window is secured in place? Incidentally, the
inside of the frame shows no obvious fixings passing through to
anything either.
I'd expect to see them there, you do hear of some of them being installed
with foam only ...

Andy Burns wrote :
Normally just frame fixings straight through the, erm frame, into the
masonry, can you see evidence of them on any openers?

My bathroom's smallish window, the opening half, has seven such frame
fixings visible. So likely the entire window has fourteen fixings
around it.

The usual way to get the windows out, is to use an electric saw to feel
for and cut through the bolts, once cut, the entire window comes out in
one piece.

Wooden frames are usually removed by sawing them into sections in
place, plus cropping any fixings.

In article ,
Mathew Newton wrote:
Any ideas how this window is secured in place? Incidentally, the inside of the frame shows no obvious fixings passing through to anything either.

Ones I fitted had slide in brackets to the sides which you screwed to the
brickwork, then plastered over. But of course it's the expanded foam which
generally holds it in place.

--
*Vegetarians taste great*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 22/07/2018 19:31, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Remove the glass panel and you will find the fixing screws there.

Richard


Quite possibly but this house has cavity closers fitted and the
windows should just clip into place.

No evidence of fixing screws where the top vent hinges out so
I would carefully remove the external mastic between window and
brickwork and slide a metal rule up and down to see if these
clips can be located. then its just a matter of using the ruler
or a paint scraper to unclip the latches.

take the glass out FIRST, because thats where the weight is,
(which might reveal some hidden fischer screws too).

On 23/07/2018 15:07, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The usual way to get the windows out, is to use an electric saw to feel
for and cut through the bolts, once cut, the entire window comes out in
one piece.

Are you mad ?.

remove the glass and just unscrew the frame anchors or fischer
fixings. If frame anchors were used they can usually be removed
with a pair of needle-nosed pliers once the screw is removed.

On Sunday, 22 July 2018 18:10:32 UTC+1, Mathew Newton wrote:
I want to remove a UPVC window

[...]

Any ideas how this window is secured in place? Incidentally, the inside of the frame shows no obvious fixings passing through to anything either.

I finally got round to the removing the window (and a set of French doors for that matter) and can confirm that they were held in place by a combination of 'conventional' fixing cleats (top and bottom) and a proprietary cavity closer with a full height clip on the sides:

http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/loungewindow5.jpg
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/loungewindow6.jpg

The clip was easy to remove once I knew it'd come out, the cleats were a bit more difficult as the top ones appeared to spot welded (possibly rivetted?) to the lintel above and so I ended up hacksawing them free.

Thanks everyone for the inputs - they were most helpful in getting my head around what possibilities I was facing.