Hi,

New uPVC window arrived today for daughter's bedroom (that's teh last of
the iron single glazed windows going).

It is 1480 wide x 880mm high.

Side fixings are no problem - I reckoned on 3-4 each side of my personal
favourite Fischer FS 8x100mm frame fixings with caps. All into solid brick.

However - how many should I be looking to do along the top and bottom?

I've seen some forums saying "none".

The top could be fixed into a "beam" of 1.5 x 3" high timber (not a
lintle). TBH the window frame is probably stonger than this wood anyway,
but a few SS screws are easy enough. Anything more robust would need
some steel straps back to the inner brick leaf - that's a bit more
fiddling than I'd like...

The bottom is harder - big (30mm ish) gap then clay tiles then brick.
Reckon I could put some long frame fixings through this lot with some
difficulty of not cracking the tiles *and* drilling against a 20 degree
slope. I'm wondering if it will contribute that much compared to the
foam... The windows do have immensely strong steel inside.

I will of course be foaming round afterwards (where space permits -
these windows should (hopefully!) be a "nice fit" into the unrendered
brick leaf and the massive gap at the bottom will be covered with trim
strip.) The final sealing will be some acrylic frame sealant. That set
of techniques all went very well on some tiny windows I fitted last
year, but they were tiny so not many fixing needed.



Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 12:44:01 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

It is 1480 wide x 880mm high.

Side fixings are no problem - I reckoned on 3-4 each side of my personal
favourite Fischer FS 8x100mm frame fixings with caps. All into solid
brick.

3 or 4 over 880mm seems a bit excessive. Our windows are the best
part of 2m high (I'm 6' and can stand upright in the reveal without
worrying about hitting my head) and only have 4 fixings. For 880mm
I'd go for two each side around 200mm down/up from the top/bottom.

1/3rd spacing for a couple more along the long side top and bottom.
With good strong packing in the 30mm gap(*) to stop the fixings
distorting the frame when tightened.

(*) I guess there must be a good reason but seems a bit excessive to
me.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 05/06/10 13:35, wrote:

Of teh professionally fitted windows I have, up to 2400x1350, none have
top/cill fixing, although I've had to fill the gaps round them with foam,
maily to stop ghostly whistles in windy weather.

that's why (if I replace the wooden DG ones) i'll do it myself. Seals are
starting to fail in the 20-25 year old wooden DG windows, cheaper and easier
to replace with PVC and no need to paint!

[1] will post link when I find it on other computer.


Thanks for that. I just also found a document that advised against
bottom fixings as you penetrate the drainage channel - and if you
*must*, to seal the screw with silicone.

Perhaps I'll try without any bottom ones. My metric is "fairly solid
without foam" - if that passes, the foam is optional and just adds to
the overall rigidity (and lack of howling gales!).

Given the tiles and their slope, probably be easier to drill the bottom
if needed with the frame solidly fixed anyway.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 05/06/10 13:49, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 12:44:01 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

It is 1480 wide x 880mm high.

Side fixings are no problem - I reckoned on 3-4 each side of my personal
favourite Fischer FS 8x100mm frame fixings with caps. All into solid
brick.

3 or 4 over 880mm seems a bit excessive. Our windows are the best
part of 2m high (I'm 6' and can stand upright in the reveal without
worrying about hitting my head) and only have 4 fixings. For 880mm
I'd go for two each side around 200mm down/up from the top/bottom.

Probably. I'll do 3 up each side - I always like a bit extra (ooh err).

1/3rd spacing for a couple more along the long side top and bottom.
With good strong packing in the 30mm gap(*) to stop the fixings
distorting the frame when tightened.

See my comment to BThumbs re bottom. But yes, I'll certainly start with
the top - your 2 sounds like a good bet - that's one dead centre of each
opening. I have a massive selection of graded plastic frame packers - I
always have the fixing bear down on something solid Just need to make
sure I have the correct selection of glazing packers - They were
generous on bridge packers ('cos I nagged them) but they've sent me only
2 thicknesses of shims. Luckily I think I have loads left over from the
last window in every thickness. Those are a PITA to buy 'cos most sheds
don't do glazing shims and they're sold in boxes of 1000 online!

(*) I guess there must be a good reason but seems a bit excessive to
me.


I'll see how it goes. The windows from Croft Glass are bloody strong[1]
(as I found out last time when I tried to drill the holes in the frame -
new HSS drill on shopping list this time!). The windows our old landlord
had put in, the bloke just pounded an SDS masonry bit straight through
(probably tinplate reinsforcing). Don't think you'd do that with mine -
at least 3mm steel box in there.

[1] They're expensive too. I might go with windowsanddoors.co.uk for the
upstairs - security and robustness is slightly less of a concern - not
that I *know* that the latter are weaker in any way, but if they are, I
won't care. About 30% cheaper though...

Cheers

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 5 June, 14:16, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/06/10 13:49, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 12:44:01 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

It is 1480 wide x 880mm high.

Side fixings are no problem - I reckoned on 3-4 each side of my personal
favourite Fischer FS 8x100mm frame fixings with caps. All into solid
brick.

3 or 4 over 880mm seems a bit excessive. Our windows are the best
part of 2m high (I'm 6' and can stand upright in the reveal without
worrying about hitting my head) and only have 4 fixings. For 880mm
I'd go for two each side around 200mm down/up from the top/bottom.

Probably. I'll do 3 up each side - I always like a bit extra (ooh err).

1/3rd spacing for a couple more along the long side top and bottom.
With good strong packing in the 30mm gap(*) to stop the fixings
distorting the frame when tightened.

See my comment to BThumbs re bottom. But yes, I'll certainly start with
the top - your 2 sounds like a good bet - that's one dead centre of each
opening. I have a massive selection of graded plastic frame packers - I
always have the fixing bear down on something solid Just need to make
sure I have the correct selection of glazing packers - They were
generous on bridge packers ('cos I nagged them) but they've sent me only
2 thicknesses of shims. Luckily I think I have loads left over from the
last window in every thickness. Those are a PITA to buy 'cos most sheds
don't do glazing shims and they're sold in boxes of 1000 online!

(*) I guess there must be a good reason but seems a bit excessive to
me.

I'll see how it goes. The windows from Croft Glass are bloody strong[1]
(as I found out last time when I tried to drill the holes in the frame -
new HSS drill on shopping list this time!). The windows our old landlord
had put in, the bloke just pounded an SDS masonry bit straight through
(probably tinplate reinsforcing). Don't think you'd do that with mine -
at least 3mm steel box in there.

Be careful with that one. I drilled my PVCu french doors for mounting,
with
a HSS drill, and it must have dislodged the metal reinforcing strip in
the door,
which proceeded to jingle every time the door was closed. After
fiddling for
ages with a coat hanger and extra holes to find the problem and pack
it with
something, the only way I could stop the jingle was to bend the frame
slightly
by tightening the middle screw up without packing **
I ended up with a bend of about 5mm half way up the vertical. Has
caused no
problems, but a rattle / jingle on every door close would have driven
me insane !

** come to think of it, I could have filled the profile with foam. But
we all know the
story of the canoe (see uk.d-i-y wiki) !!

top fixings, I drilled my cavity wall lintel to take a long self-
tapping screw in
the centre at the top. I've seen may doors that wobble in the middle
when shut.
Of course, the foaming stabilizes the whole thing too.

bottom fixings, I always fix and level the sill to the brickwork
(silicone in the holes)
and then screw the window to the sill. I dont like a long frame fixing
right through the frame,
sill and into the wall.

Hope that helps,
Simon.

On 05/06/10 12:44, Tim Watts wrote:
Hi,

New uPVC window arrived today for daughter's bedroom (that's teh last of
the iron single glazed windows going).

It is 1480 wide x 880mm high.

Side fixings are no problem - I reckoned on 3-4 each side of my personal
favourite Fischer FS 8x100mm frame fixings with caps. All into solid brick.

However - how many should I be looking to do along the top and bottom?


On an aside, I found this video which seems most helpful:

http://alextradeframes.com/technical...nd-heel-video/

I always had trouble with that - those little bridge packers are buggers
for wandering off while you put the glass in. I see the trade solution
is glue them in with silicone first. Makes sense.

Back to the frame... It's in, and boarded up tonight. Getting too dark
to do glazing properly.

Little bit of buggering about chiselling bits off the wall here and
there (non rendered wall - need a good outside fit - don't like to use
trim unless necessary).

Went for 3 frame fixings up each side, 4 SS screws in the top into the
random bit of wood. Sides are rock solid, so's the top. Bottom was a bit
wibbly and I ended up with a 2" plus gap. Due to framing over a 20
degree sloping clay tile cill, I always get a fair gap at the bottom.
This usually gets foamed and here I do use trim. On the current window,
the inside tiled cill is higher than normal, so as the frame sits on
that, I got an even bigger gap.

To solve this, I cut out a pair of tight fitting oak blocks (from scrap
bin) with one edge sloped to match the cill. Drilled through the frame
at about 1/3 and 2/3 along the bottom, through the blocks and into the
cill. Slavered the top of the blocks with silicone and popped the frame
fixings right through and tightened down. Seems to have done the trick.

Hence ran out of time to glaze. Never mind - weather's nice tomorrow...

I'm in two minds whether to mortar up the bottom as the gap is massive
or foam it. Probably the latter. Looks like I'll have to nip into the
shop and get a length of even wider trim for this one.

Overall though, the window was a good fit round the top and sides - 5mm
gap to foam and seal.

Not too pleased about one thing though, having praised the suppliers
before. I specified egress hinges and it seems I appear to have
easy-clean hinges. Not only that, the hinge screws aren't holding too
well (seem to be into plastic only - not sure how... I'll have a word
and see if they can supply the correct hinges for me to swap (assuming
it's not a technical problem due to the fairly wide casement).

Easy enough to remove them - I took the casement out anyway for better
drilling access. That's when I noticed they weren;t holding well. No I
didn't use a power driver!

As for the screws, I guess I can switch them to the next size up - only
self tappers.

Photos tomorrow of most stages...

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 05/06/10 12:44, Tim Watts wrote:
Hi,

New uPVC window arrived today for daughter's bedroom (that's teh last of
the iron single glazed windows going).

It is 1480 wide x 880mm high.

Side fixings are no problem - I reckoned on 3-4 each side of my personal
favourite Fischer FS 8x100mm frame fixings with caps. All into solid
brick.

However - how many should I be looking to do along the top and bottom?


On an aside, I found this video which seems most helpful:

http://alextradeframes.com/technical...nd-heel-video/

I always had trouble with that - those little bridge packers are buggers
for wandering off while you put the glass in. I see the trade solution is
glue them in with silicone first. Makes sense.

Back to the frame... It's in, and boarded up tonight. Getting too dark to
do glazing properly.

Little bit of buggering about chiselling bits off the wall here and there
(non rendered wall - need a good outside fit - don't like to use trim
unless necessary).

Went for 3 frame fixings up each side, 4 SS screws in the top into the
random bit of wood. Sides are rock solid, so's the top. Bottom was a bit
wibbly and I ended up with a 2" plus gap. Due to framing over a 20 degree
sloping clay tile cill, I always get a fair gap at the bottom. This
usually gets foamed and here I do use trim. On the current window, the
inside tiled cill is higher than normal, so as the frame sits on that, I
got an even bigger gap.

To solve this, I cut out a pair of tight fitting oak blocks (from scrap
bin) with one edge sloped to match the cill. Drilled through the frame at
about 1/3 and 2/3 along the bottom, through the blocks and into the cill.
Slavered the top of the blocks with silicone and popped the frame fixings
right through and tightened down. Seems to have done the trick.

Hence ran out of time to glaze. Never mind - weather's nice tomorrow...

I'm in two minds whether to mortar up the bottom as the gap is massive or
foam it. Probably the latter. Looks like I'll have to nip into the shop
and get a length of even wider trim for this one.

Overall though, the window was a good fit round the top and sides - 5mm
gap to foam and seal.

Not too pleased about one thing though, having praised the suppliers
before. I specified egress hinges and it seems I appear to have easy-clean
hinges. Not only that, the hinge screws aren't holding too well (seem to
be into plastic only - not sure how... I'll have a word and see if they
can supply the correct hinges for me to swap (assuming it's not a
technical problem due to the fairly wide casement).

Easy enough to remove them - I took the casement out anyway for better
drilling access. That's when I noticed they weren;t holding well. No I
didn't use a power driver!

As for the screws, I guess I can switch them to the next size up - only
self tappers.

Photos tomorrow of most stages...


I've been watching with interest as I am about to finally fit my pair of B&Q
windows.
One thing - if you were contemplating filling a large gap below the frames
with mortar, would it have been an option to lay and level a bed of mortar
before hand, let it cure and then stand the frame directly on that? Or at
least, have a 5mm gap for the final sticky foam but the rest mortar?

I have some minor adjustments to make vertically and am trying to decide if
a plastic frame extender (10mm deep) screwed to the top would be a better
option than a small bed of mortar at the bottom or some extra foam.

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

On 07/06/10 09:26, David WE Roberts wrote:


I've been watching with interest as I am about to finally fit my pair of
B&Q windows.

Hi David,

Aye - the techniques will be the same...

Do you have lots of frame packers and glazing packers at hand (including
bridge packers - these have ridges and go agains the inside of the frame
in the glass recess) to hand. I note that Screwfix are doing a mixed bag
of glazing packers (at last) but they forgot the bridge ones, so make
sure you've got some 'cos they are hard to get.

One thing - if you were contemplating filling a large gap below the
frames with mortar, would it have been an option to lay and level a bed
of mortar before hand, let it cure and then stand the frame directly on
that? Or at least, have a 5mm gap for the final sticky foam but the rest
mortar?

No reason that wouldn't work. It would be more ideal than 2" foam. I'd
leave 10-15mm clearance though - foam is quite happy with that - in fact
it's easier to inject it in.

Are you relying on sealant to fill the joins or will you be using trim
strip?

I have some minor adjustments to make vertically and am trying to decide
if a plastic frame extender (10mm deep) screwed to the top would be a
better option than a small bed of mortar at the bottom or some extra foam.

Shouldn't be necessary.

The trick is to borrow someone (SWMBO will do or even a big kid) who can
stand inside and steady teh fram while you get the 1st couple of fixings
in. It gets exponentially easier as you go.

The other trick is to cut a bunch of wooden wedges out of scrap (5-10
degree angle) in both thick 2-3cm and thin (1cm - down to nothing) to
stuff round the frame as you get it levelled and true.

I advise a dry fit, mark where to drill the frame holes, looking out for
the best bricks rather than the crumbly bit that Murphy gives you if you
don't check)

Take the frame out and drill the holes in the frame to suit the fixings.

With all this done, the chances of the frame wibbling when you drill the
wall is much reduced IME. Get one in and then check the vertical
alignments and in/out position, then get one the other side. If you do
both of these either at the top, or the bottom, you get to swivel the
frame in situ which gives you some leeway. If you don't do the fixings
up you'll also get to tweak the frame left and right before finally
tightening.

I do the top and bottom fixings (if any) last, watching out in all cases
that I'm not bowing the frame.

For the toeing and heeling of the glazing, I strongly advise watching
that video and read some guides (google will give you links to supply
only companies with very detailed instructions).

You will need (ideally) a small rubber tipped mallet for banging the
beading in (that's scary but usually goes better than you expect[1]) and
a glazing shovel (something to lever the frame against the glass to get
the packing shims in). I've managed with just a frame packer on tiny
windows, but my bigger one is hard. So I'm planning on trying a wooden
spoon (flat stirrer type). If that fails, I'll glue a frame packer onto
my bolster and wrap it to buggery in PVC tape and use that. Never use
metal tools against the glass.

[1] One other thing - as you tale the beads out, write on the back in
felt pen where it came from. The top and bottom *should* be the same but
might in fact be 1mm out which can show. Also, note the order of
installation - in mine, it's top and bottom first then side beads.
Choose wrong and you can't get the others in! And they're buggers to get
out again.

Good luck

Should have photos by this evening - but I have to install the Touran
Service manual first and consult Erwin to figure out why my car won't
start before I call the garage...
--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 7 June, 10:37, Tim Watts wrote:
On 07/06/10 09:26, David WE Roberts wrote:



I've been watching with interest as I am about to finally fit my pair of
B&Q windows.

Hi David,

Aye - the techniques will be the same...

Do you have lots of frame packers and glazing packers at hand (including
bridge packers - these have ridges and go agains the inside of the frame
in the glass recess) to hand. I note that Screwfix are doing a mixed bag
of glazing packers (at last) but they forgot the bridge ones, so make
sure you've got some 'cos they are hard to get.

One thing - if you were contemplating filling a large gap below the
frames with mortar, would it have been an option to lay and level a bed
of mortar before hand, let it cure and then stand the frame directly on
that? Or at least, have a 5mm gap for the final sticky foam but the rest
mortar?

No reason that wouldn't work. It would be more ideal than 2" foam. I'd
leave 10-15mm clearance though - foam is quite happy with that - in fact
it's easier to inject it in.

Are you relying on sealant to fill the joins or will you be using trim
strip?

I have some minor adjustments to make vertically and am trying to decide
if a plastic frame extender (10mm deep) screwed to the top would be a
better option than a small bed of mortar at the bottom or some extra foam.

Shouldn't be necessary.

The trick is to borrow someone (SWMBO will do or even a big kid) who can
stand inside and steady teh fram while you get the 1st couple of fixings
in. It gets exponentially easier as you go.

The other trick is to cut a bunch of wooden wedges out of scrap (5-10
degree angle) in both thick 2-3cm and thin (1cm - down to nothing) to
stuff round the frame as you get it levelled and true.

I advise a dry fit, mark where to drill the frame holes, looking out for
the best bricks rather than the crumbly bit that Murphy gives you if you
don't check)

Take the frame out and drill the holes in the frame to suit the fixings.

With all this done, the chances of the frame wibbling when you drill the
wall is much reduced IME. Get one in and then check the vertical
alignments and in/out position, then get one the other side. If you do
both of these either at the top, or the bottom, you get to swivel the
frame in situ which gives you some leeway. If you don't do the fixings
up you'll also get to tweak the frame left and right before finally
tightening.

I do the top and bottom fixings (if any) last, watching out in all cases
that I'm not bowing the frame.

For the toeing and heeling of the glazing, I strongly advise watching
that video and read some guides (google will give you links to supply
only companies with very detailed instructions).

You will need (ideally) a small rubber tipped mallet for banging the
beading in (that's scary but usually goes better than you expect[1]) and
a glazing shovel (something to lever the frame against the glass to get
the packing shims in). I've managed with just a frame packer on tiny
windows, but my bigger one is hard. So I'm planning on trying a wooden
spoon (flat stirrer type). If that fails, I'll glue a frame packer onto
my bolster and wrap it to buggery in PVC tape and use that. Never use
metal tools against the glass.

[1] One other thing - as you tale the beads out, write on the back in
felt pen where it came from. The top and bottom *should* be the same but
might in fact be 1mm out which can show. Also, note the order of
installation - in mine, it's top and bottom first then side beads.
Choose wrong and you can't get the others in! And they're buggers to get
out again.


They usually fit the short beads first, since they are harder to bend
to get them in. The longers ones, you bend them to get the corners in
first, then tap them in towards the centre.
Simon

On 07/06/10 10:37, Tim Watts wrote:

Should have photos by this evening - but I have to install the Touran
Service manual first and consult Erwin to figure out why my car won't
start before I call the garage...

http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bungalow/window/

Almost as promised... The photos with titles have some extra
descriptions - the rest are infill...

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
New uPVC window arrived today for daughter's bedroom (that's teh last of
the iron single glazed windows going).

It is 1480 wide x 880mm high.

Side fixings are no problem - I reckoned on 3-4 each side of my personal
favourite Fischer FS 8x100mm frame fixings with caps. All into solid
brick.

However - how many should I be looking to do along the top and bottom?

I've seen some forums saying "none".

I have two rather wider than that - from Screwfix - and the original
fitting instructions only mentioned side fixings. And given I have
pre-stressed concrete lintels above I'm pleased about this.
The important thing is the window should sit on a good solid level base,
and any fixings not distort it. The foam used for gap filling will hold it
solidly.

Two fixings per side were as supplied.

--
*No sentence fragments *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/06/10 09:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Tim wrote:
New uPVC window arrived today for daughter's bedroom (that's teh last of
the iron single glazed windows going).

It is 1480 wide x 880mm high.

Side fixings are no problem - I reckoned on 3-4 each side of my personal
favourite Fischer FS 8x100mm frame fixings with caps. All into solid
brick.

However - how many should I be looking to do along the top and bottom?

I've seen some forums saying "none".

I have two rather wider than that - from Screwfix - and the original
fitting instructions only mentioned side fixings. And given I have
pre-stressed concrete lintels above I'm pleased about this.
The important thing is the window should sit on a good solid level base,
and any fixings not distort it. The foam used for gap filling will hold it
solidly.

Two fixings per side were as supplied.


I agree if the gap is fairly small (say an inch or so) - foam will
pack that and get a good grip - especially if you are fitting a window
with cill into an all brick opening. I was reusing the original tiled
cills and short of building them up (don't have any spare clay tiles)
there wasn't much I could do about the arrangement.

That 2" gap under mind I felt, after fitting the sides, did demand a
little extra than foam alone. Window was actually supporting itself
fairly well on side fixings alone, but the middle was a bit wibbly. I
think bolting through 2 wooden blocks was a good idea - but it's not a
very typical opening that one.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
I have two rather wider than that - from Screwfix - and the original
fitting instructions only mentioned side fixings. And given I have
pre-stressed concrete lintels above I'm pleased about this.
The important thing is the window should sit on a good solid level base,
and any fixings not distort it. The foam used for gap filling will hold it
solidly.

Two fixings per side were as supplied.


I agree if the gap is fairly small (say an inch or so) - foam will
pack that and get a good grip - especially if you are fitting a window
with cill into an all brick opening. I was reusing the original tiled
cills and short of building them up (don't have any spare clay tiles)
there wasn't much I could do about the arrangement.

That 2" gap under mind I felt, after fitting the sides, did demand a
little extra than foam alone. Window was actually supporting itself
fairly well on side fixings alone, but the middle was a bit wibbly. I
think bolting through 2 wooden blocks was a good idea - but it's not a
very typical opening that one.

I'd pack the window using temporary wedges so the gaps top and bottom are
reasonably equal and it's level, then pack mortar between it and the cill.
Let that go off, remove the bottom wedges and fill those gaps with mortar.

Fixings as required to the sides.

Fill all gaps with foam and let it go off. Cut it back about 3/4 in below
the brick and run a mortar fillet over it.

--
*Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jun 8, 10:15*am, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/06/10 09:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:



In ,
* * Tim *wrote:
New uPVC window arrived today for daughter's bedroom (that's teh last of
the iron single glazed windows going).

It is 1480 wide x 880mm high.

Side fixings are no problem - I reckoned on 3-4 each side of my personal
favourite Fischer FS 8x100mm frame fixings with caps. All into solid
brick.

However - how many should I be looking to do along the top and bottom?

I've seen some forums saying "none".

I have two rather wider than that - from Screwfix - and the original
fitting instructions only mentioned side fixings. And given I have
pre-stressed concrete lintels above I'm pleased about this.
* The important thing is the window should sit on a good solid level base,
and any fixings not distort it. The foam used for gap filling will hold it
solidly.

Two fixings per side were as supplied.

I agree if the gap is fairly small (say an inch or so) - foam will
pack that and get a good grip - especially if you are fitting a window
with cill into an all brick opening. I was reusing the original tiled
cills and short of building them up (don't have any spare clay tiles)
there wasn't much I could do about the arrangement.

That 2" gap under mind I felt, after fitting the sides, did demand a
little extra than foam alone. Window was actually supporting itself
fairly well on side fixings alone, but the middle was a bit wibbly. I
think bolting through 2 wooden blocks was a good idea - but it's not a
very typical opening that one.

But why such a large gap, did you measure correctly? It should be no
more than a few mm all round and the window should be *well* supported
on suitable spacers that take the weight of the window. A couple of
side fixings if you want but foam will hold it.

MBQ

On 08/06/10 10:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Tim wrote:
I have two rather wider than that - from Screwfix - and the original
fitting instructions only mentioned side fixings. And given I have
pre-stressed concrete lintels above I'm pleased about this.
The important thing is the window should sit on a good solid level base,
and any fixings not distort it. The foam used for gap filling will hold it
solidly.

Two fixings per side were as supplied.


I agree if the gap is fairly small (say an inch or so) - foam will
pack that and get a good grip - especially if you are fitting a window
with cill into an all brick opening. I was reusing the original tiled
cills and short of building them up (don't have any spare clay tiles)
there wasn't much I could do about the arrangement.

That2" gap under mind I felt, after fitting the sides, did demand a
little extra than foam alone. Window was actually supporting itself
fairly well on side fixings alone, but the middle was a bit wibbly. I
think bolting through 2 wooden blocks was a good idea - but it's not a
very typical opening that one.

I'd pack the window using temporary wedges so the gaps top and bottom are
reasonably equal and it's level, then pack mortar between it and the cill.

That wasn't possible: Have a look he

https://photos.dionic.net/v/public/b...33227.jpg.html

You see the internal cill behind - I needed the window frame to sit on
that. For some infathomable reason, some mushroom had made the external
cills much lower. If I'd had some clay tiles, I might have built that up
2 more courses.

Anyway, it worked out OK with those oak packers there. Now the foam
(built up in layers) has set, it is incredible firm and rainproof.

Let that go off, remove the bottom wedges and fill those gaps with mortar.

Fixings as required to the sides.

Fill all gaps with foam and let it go off. Cut it back about 3/4 in below
the brick and run a mortar fillet over it.


That is another option.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 08/06/10 12:58, Man at B&Q wrote:

But why such a large gap, did you measure correctly?

Of course - several times to make sure(!)

It should be no
more than a few mm all round and the window should be *well* supported
on suitable spacers that take the weight of the window. A couple of
side fixings if you want but foam will hold it.


See my reply to Dave - there's a photo link in there, or from the URL
down below. This isn't your typical Barrats house with simple
rectangular openings. This is the 1950's when builders were creative
with whatever that found lying around ;-# I have to be grateful the
hole was even square (mostly)!

The fit is as perfect as the opening will allow - in fact I have 5mm
sides and top which need nothing more than a bead of acrylic to finish
off (and foam of course, injected mostly from inside).

If you look at the photo, my house generally has cill like this end section:

= internal tiles
* Bricks

= Outside tiles, 20 degree slope.



======
*****
***** ===
***** **===
***** *****===
***** *****

Anyway, in case no one saw my post last night, the job is done bar
trimming (when it stops raining!) and here's the process:

https://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bungalow/window/

I bought strong windows that have decent steelwork in them - in fact
they proved capable of hanging on side fixings alone. The only niggle
was slight front-back wobbliness in the midspan. Foam would probably
have been enough (they do partly sit on the internal tiled cill - but
only just - I would have put them another cm back if I could but then
the fixings would have been right on the edge of the brick which
wouldn't have worked).

2 fixings through the bottom supported on solid wedges which are now
buried in foam did the job

Thanks again for the general advice on number of fixings - I went for a
few more (I always do) but it worked really well, despite the non
standard opening.

Someone may ask - why not have got windows with a psuedo-cill (I forget
the name, but it's a cill that doesn't protrude forward of the frame -
smaller than a stub cill) and mount the frame in front of the internal
cill in the same way the iron one was. Bearing in mind the uPVC frames
are 3 times thicker than the iron frame...

Possibly - if I had had the luxury of taking the old iron out first to
see how far the internal cill went forward (it could easily have gone
another inch). I hadn't so I couldn't - so had to make some inspired
guesses about the structure in the frame area. The other thing is it
would have brought the frame too far forward WRT the wood at the top.
Adding trim there would mess up trying to remove that soffit down the
line when I get round to replacing it.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.