On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 12:04:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/07/18 08:49, Jeff wrote:

But the socialism approach is almost universal in the modern first and
second world now. Even in the USA, although it isnt universal in the
USA. It is almost everywhere else.

Well no it isn't.

Sooner or later all those mountains of securities that profligate
countries issue to fund their public spending programs will become
unsellable. There's only a market for bonds issued by southern european
countries at present because the Germans are back-stopping them. No way
could the PIIGS enjoy sub 4% interest rates on the bonds they issue
otherwise.



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On 03/07/18 19:14, Bill Wright wrote:
On 27/06/2018 00:39, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If only your anus were less dilated.

You an expert in this area?

Bill

Indeed he is, it's where his head's lodged. Poor chap never quite
grasped the concept of introspection.

On 03/07/2018 14:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Its a lot quicker and easier to phone up the local farm manager to come
with a tractor and a chhainsaw to clear the branch across the road for
the cost of a pint, than it is tp phone the council, who after a week
will send a team who have all been on H & S courses, block the road for
a day, cut the branch up and cart it off for ecological dispodal (rather
than give it to me for firewood).

Very true. The black market has always been a favourite for the greedy.

A good friend of mine used to manage a state-owned supermarket in the
pre-collapsed Soviet Union (he left in the early 90's).

I was/still am fascinated by his stories, so heard many over the years.

Here is one:
He used to get the meat delivery once a week from the state-owned local
co-op - 1st grade and 2nd grade.
1st grade was set aside to be given to the supervisors/auditors from the
state that used to come to inspect in order to keep them quite. The 2nd
grade was re-labelled and sold as 1st, with the "profit" split between
everyone in the loop.

I have known many more ex-USSR people over the years, and I can assure
you that you will not find someone who hates the socialist/communist
system more than those who have lived under it...

According to them it is a true real-life Animal Farm.

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 27/06/2018 00:39, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If only your anus were less dilated.

You an expert in this area?

Very sadly am from the ****e which spews out from so many on here.
Sorry if it hit home.

--
*Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/07/2018 08:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/07/18 23:14, Jeff wrote:


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
Â* "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that
socialism?
Â*Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

You're confusing socialism and communism.

The NHS, which clearly is socialism, doesn't use the prisons for their
political opponents.


The NHS is not a government.


And if you think a corbyn led government wouldn't use the legal system
to suppress disssent, you are barking mad.

He'll probably use his "private" police for that - they are already in
place, so he'll just need to order the brown uniform, and give them the
wink to get going.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , JoeJoe
wrote:

On 03/07/2018 14:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Its a lot quicker and easier to phone up the local farm manager to come
with a tractor and a chhainsaw to clear the branch across the road for
the cost of a pint, than it is tp phone the council, who after a week
will send a team who have all been on H & S courses, block the road for
a day, cut the branch up and cart it off for ecological dispodal
(rather
than give it to me for firewood).

Very true. The black market has always been a favourite for the greedy.

This says it all. Dave labels as "black market" any favour one person
does for another that does not involve a slow-coach "public" entity.

A good friend of mine used to manage a state-owned supermarket in the
pre-collapsed Soviet Union (he left in the early 90's).

I was/still am fascinated by his stories, so heard many over the years.

Here is one:
He used to get the meat delivery once a week from the state-owned local
co-op - 1st grade and 2nd grade.
1st grade was set aside to be given to the supervisors/auditors from the
state that used to come to inspect in order to keep them quite. The 2nd
grade was re-labelled and sold as 1st, with the "profit" split between
everyone in the loop.

I have known many more ex-USSR people over the years, and I can assure you
that you will not find someone who hates the socialist/communist system
more than those who have lived under it...

According to them it is a true real-life Animal Farm.

That's all too difficult for the likes of Our Dave - who has only lived
under and profited from a capitalist system.

Hard to claim that the BBC is a capitalist system.

On 03/07/2018 14:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mbeki was no worse than Jeremy Corbyn would be.

The sad thing is you probably believe that.

Even sadder. It's probably true. After all his cohort

Would that be as in Rees Mogg being a cohort of May?

refused to condemn
a suggestion from a financial backer that a particular parliamentary
candidate should be lynched.

The one thing that infuriates the meja about Corbyn is he refuses to
comment on everything.

He does, but only after he receives the script from his bosses.

On 04/07/18 10:51, JoeJoe wrote:
On 03/07/2018 08:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/07/18 23:14, Jeff wrote:


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
Â* "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that
socialism?
Â*Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

You're confusing socialism and communism.

The NHS, which clearly is socialism, doesn't use the prisons for
their political opponents.


The NHS is not a government.


And if you think a corbyn led government wouldn't use the legal system
to suppress disssent, you are barking mad.

He'll probably use his "private" police for that - they are already in
place, so he'll just need to order the brown uniform, and give them the
wink to get going.

Plausible deniability a la Kristallnacht?

Lets look at Comrade Corbyn vis a vis Uncle Adolf

Hates Jews - Tick
Vegetarian - Tick
Animal lover - Tick.
Uses Islamic connections to further his agenda - Tick
Has stupid facial hair - Tick
Supports terrorist groups including both Islamic and hard left Antifa
style groups like Hate not Soap - Tick





--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people
by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason they are
poor.

Peter Thompson

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , JoeJoe
wrote:

On 03/07/2018 14:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Its a lot quicker and easier to phone up the local farm manager to
come with a tractor and a chhainsaw to clear the branch across the
road for the cost of a pint, than it is tp phone the council, who
after a week will send a team who have all been on H & S courses,
block the road for a day, cut the branch up and cart it off for
ecological dispodal (rather than give it to me for firewood).

Very true. The black market has always been a favourite for the
greedy.

This says it all. Dave labels as "black market" any favour one person
does for another that does not involve a slow-coach "public" entity.

Not a favour if you pay for it, pet. No surprise you don't understand the
difference.

A good friend of mine used to manage a state-owned supermarket in the
pre-collapsed Soviet Union (he left in the early 90's).

I was/still am fascinated by his stories, so heard many over the years.

Here is one:
He used to get the meat delivery once a week from the state-owned local
co-op - 1st grade and 2nd grade.
1st grade was set aside to be given to the supervisors/auditors from the
state that used to come to inspect in order to keep them quite. The 2nd
grade was re-labelled and sold as 1st, with the "profit" split between
everyone in the loop.

I have known many more ex-USSR people over the years, and I can assure
you that you will not find someone who hates the socialist/communist
system more than those who have lived under it...

According to them it is a true real-life Animal Farm.

But surely you are all in favour of a pecking order? The rich and powerful
getting the very best of everything? Or are you saying you'd prefer *true*
communism over the pastiche which was Russia? Or just what are you trying
to say?

That's all too difficult for the likes of Our Dave - who has only lived
under and profited from a capitalist system.

Actually a mixed economy, the UK. But I doubt you understand such things
in your little black and white world.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jeff wrote:
That's all too difficult for the likes of Our Dave - who has only lived
under and profited from a capitalist system.

Hard to claim that the BBC is a capitalist system.

Also rather interesting the use of 'profit' when describing a worker.
Bit of a one track mind, Mr Streater.

--
*I like cats, too. Let's exchange recipes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/07/18 14:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , JoeJoe
wrote:

On 03/07/2018 14:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Its a lot quicker and easier to phone up the local farm manager to
come with a tractor and a chhainsaw to clear the branch across the
road for the cost of a pint, than it is tp phone the council, who
after a week will send a team who have all been on H & S courses,
block the road for a day, cut the branch up and cart it off for
ecological dispodal (rather than give it to me for firewood).

Very true. The black market has always been a favourite for the
greedy.

This says it all. Dave labels as "black market" any favour one person
does for another that does not involve a slow-coach "public" entity.

Not a favour if you pay for it, pet. No surprise you don't understand the
difference.

A good friend of mine used to manage a state-owned supermarket in the
pre-collapsed Soviet Union (he left in the early 90's).

I was/still am fascinated by his stories, so heard many over the years.

Here is one:
He used to get the meat delivery once a week from the state-owned local
co-op - 1st grade and 2nd grade.
1st grade was set aside to be given to the supervisors/auditors from the
state that used to come to inspect in order to keep them quite. The 2nd
grade was re-labelled and sold as 1st, with the "profit" split between
everyone in the loop.

I have known many more ex-USSR people over the years, and I can assure
you that you will not find someone who hates the socialist/communist
system more than those who have lived under it...

According to them it is a true real-life Animal Farm.

But surely you are all in favour of a pecking order? The rich and powerful
getting the very best of everything? Or are you saying you'd prefer *true*
communism over the pastiche which was Russia? Or just what are you trying
to say?

CCCP
YVW


That's all too difficult for the likes of Our Dave - who has only lived
under and profited from a capitalist system.

Actually a mixed economy, the UK. But I doubt you understand such things
in your little black and white world.

On 04/07/18 14:15, Plow**** wrote:
But surely you are all in favour of a pecking order? The rich and powerful
getting the very best of everything? Or are you saying you'd prefer *true*
communism over the pastiche which was Russia? Or just what are you trying
to say?


What we are saying dear Plowperson, is that there is no living working
example of 'True' communism anywhere in the world. Because human nature
is what it is, handing control from private individuals to government
bureacrats only changes which ****s lord it over you. And in fact makes
it worse.

The only difference is that under communism, the rich and powerful are
communist party members instead of ordinary blokes who have done
something that other people liked.


I mean who would you rather see have a million quid? Lewis Hamilton or
Diane Aboott?

Communism takes away the pwer of the individual to affect the world by
meanas of his wealth.


Because he has none. All that exists is the State which gives him what
it thinks he needs, and keeps the rest for Party Members.

Communism and socialism are baseed d on te utterly false premise that a
bureacrat sitting in an office knows more about your personal needs than
you do.

'Common ownership' becomes 'government ownership'.

We are supposed to own the NHS, but its not us who pays them, its the
guvmint using money it took from us.


--
Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/07/18 14:15, Plow**** wrote:
But surely you are all in favour of a pecking order? The rich and
powerful getting the very best of everything? Or are you saying you'd
prefer *true* communism over the pastiche which was Russia? Or just
what are you trying to say?


What we are saying dear Plowperson, is that there is no living working
example of 'True' communism anywhere in the world.

Nor is there any living working example of true capitalism, either.
Turnip.

Yet another who seems to see only in black and white.

Every single country in the world has a mixed economy. Based on what they
think works best for them. Not the ranting of some theorist - be it Marx
or Turnip.

--
*Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jeff wrote:
That's all too difficult for the likes of Our Dave - who has only lived
under and profited from a capitalist system.

Hard to claim that the BBC is a capitalist system.

Also rather interesting the use of 'profit' when describing a worker.

That is just another meaning for the word profit. Benefitted is closer.
And no, that isnt the same as welfare benefits either.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Jeff
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jeff wrote:
That's all too difficult for the likes of Our Dave - who has only lived
under and profited from a capitalist system.

Hard to claim that the BBC is a capitalist system.

Also rather interesting the use of 'profit' when describing a worker.

That is just another meaning for the word profit. Benefitted is closer.
And no, that isnt the same as welfare benefits either.

OK - so Dave only knows of one meaning for the word or expression
"profited from". So he's ignorant - what else is new?

Certainly nothing knew about you claiming to know things about others
you've never met.

Or he does know of more than one meaning and is just being a
trouble-maker in his usual way - what else is new?

You are absolutely wierd. The sort that when it suits them, any country
with socialist in the name is some form of communism. But then claim the
UK is and was only ever totally capitalist.

No wonder I don't trust Brexiteers.

--
*When chemists die, they barium.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.