"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Jeff
writes


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 01/07/18 17:54, Jeff wrote:


"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Jeff

wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Those are just examples of socialism done very badly. Plenty of
other
examples of capitalism done very badly too.

Which of course the right wing on here are very careful to not
mention.

Gosh chaps, you mean that the NHS, roads and that, are provided by the
Government? Gosh, thanks for telling me. I mean, who knew, eh?

So much for your claim that socialism never works.

It doesn't.

Pity about Norway where it clearly does. And the NHS too.

Just becaue something is 'provided by the government' doesn't make it
socialism.

Yes it does, particularly with government schools, government doing
most of the roads and the police and health care.

Nazi deatrh camps were 'provided by the government'.

Yes, not everything government does is good. Same with capitalism,
monopolies are an example of bad capitalism.

But governments are almost entirely monopolies too.

Not so much no that there are hardly any that even attempt
to be the only TV and radio broadcaster anymore and have
chosen to allow real competition in the natural monopolies
like phone services, electricity supply, railways, schools,
universities and health care and have privatised airports etc.

They don't even have a monopoly with prisons anymore
in quite a few countries. Or the police either.

Although that is a
rather a bad example as Hitler WAS a socialist.

Yes.

Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that socialism?

Yes.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that socialism?

Yes.

Oh dear.

Surely you aren't actually claiming that the NHS isn't socialism ?

On 01/07/18 21:56, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Jeff
wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Jeff
wrote:

Pity about Norway where it clearly does. And the NHS too.

Norway is not a socialist country.

The government doing almost all of the power generation
and oil and gas clearly is socialism.

And it is hard to argue that the NHS isn't socialism.

"Socialism" means everything nationalised and everything owned by the
government. No private enterprise at all. And everywhere it's been
tried, people have rebelled one way or another and been repressed one
way or another. As you well know (unless you have your head up your
arse, of course).

The fact is that inefficient though it is, the free market responds
better and is more efficeint at getting what people want for their money
to them that a decision making process made by people remote from the
problem who will not suffer one jot from a bad decision (think EU).

Its a lot quicker and easier to phone up the local farm manager to come
with a tractor and a chhainsaw to clear the branch across the road for
the cost of a pint, than it is tp phone the council, who after a week
will send a team who have all been on H & S courses, block the road for
a day, cut the branch up and cart it off for ecological dispodal (rather
than give it to me for firewood).



--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

On 02/07/18 00:45, Jeff wrote:


"JoeJoe" wrote in message
...
On 01/07/2018 18:29, Jeff wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news On 01/07/18 17:54, Jeff wrote:


"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Jeff

wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Those are just examples of socialism done very badly. Plenty of
other
examples of capitalism done very badly too.

Which of course the right wing on here are very careful to not
mention.

Gosh chaps, you mean that the NHS, roads and that, are provided by
the
Government? Gosh, thanks for telling me. I mean, who knew, eh?

So much for your claim that socialism never works.

It doesn't.

Pity about Norway where it clearly does. And the NHS too.

Norway is not a good example,

Yes it is on the question where socialism clearly does work.

as its government pretty much unlimited
resources.

Irrelevant to why that use of socialism clearly does work.

Same with the NHS and other examples of socialism that
clearly works a lot better than only having private enterprise
doing health care. That clearly works much worse in the USA
where they have much less socialism with health care.


Public insurance private health care works marvelously.

The NHS should be privatised and the 'everything free' replaced by state
paid insurance.

Same with schools. Public funding, private delievery.

But the USA also has quite a bit of socialism with health
care, ,particularly with Medicare and Medicaid and the
government providing free unfunded health care for veterans.


Yup. There are many models. And there is no one optimal solution,. and
the optimals change with time as well.


--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 02/07/18 20:47, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
Â* "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that socialism?
Â*Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

Yes, but that is non commutative.

Non socialsists may or may not use prisons for political opponents,.


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 02/07/18 23:14, Jeff wrote:


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
Â* "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that
socialism?
Â*Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

You're confusing socialism and communism.

The NHS, which clearly is socialism, doesn't use the prisons for their
political opponents.


The NHS is not a government.


And if you think a corbyn led government wouldn't use the legal system
to suppress disssent, you are barking mad.



--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 03/07/18 00:27, Jeff wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that socialism?

Yes.

Oh dear.

Surely you aren't actually claiming that the NHS isn't socialism ?

Is the NHS now a prison as well?


I thought it was a massive fantastically bureactratic ineffecient
bumbling way to get a basic minimum of health care.


Or a sex change operation.

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 01/07/18 20:44, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jul 2018 19:04:48 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

Norway is not a socialist country.

Sweden is, though. Let's see how that's working out for them...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcI_ZwB14Ps



Sweden has private schools and a state funded voucher.

"Costs for health and medical care amounted to approximately 9 percent
of Swedens gross domestic product in 2005, a figure that remained
fairly stable since the early 1980s. By 2015 the cost had risen to 11.9%
of GDP -the highest in Europe"

Oh socialist paradise!





--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 02/07/18 00:45, Jeff wrote:


"JoeJoe" wrote in message
...
On 01/07/2018 18:29, Jeff wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news On 01/07/18 17:54, Jeff wrote:


"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Jeff

wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Those are just examples of socialism done very badly. Plenty of
other
examples of capitalism done very badly too.

Which of course the right wing on here are very careful to not
mention.

Gosh chaps, you mean that the NHS, roads and that, are provided by
the
Government? Gosh, thanks for telling me. I mean, who knew, eh?

So much for your claim that socialism never works.

It doesn't.

Pity about Norway where it clearly does. And the NHS too.

Norway is not a good example,

Yes it is on the question where socialism clearly does work.

as its government pretty much unlimited
resources.

Irrelevant to why that use of socialism clearly does work.

Same with the NHS and other examples of socialism that
clearly works a lot better than only having private enterprise
doing health care. That clearly works much worse in the USA
where they have much less socialism with health care.


Public insurance private health care works marvelously.

Works much worse than something like the NHS, because
of the inevitable higher advertising overheads and the
profit they want, particularly when they are allowed to
refuse to insure some classes of people and are allowed to
change any premium they like and to cap what they pay for.

And there will always be some in any society who can't
afford the premiums.

The NHS should be privatised and the 'everything free' replaced by state
paid insurance.

Still socialism with the state paid part.

Same with schools. Public funding, private delievery.

How odd that no country world wide does it like that, for a reason.

But the USA also has quite a bit of socialism with health
care, ,particularly with Medicare and Medicaid and the
government providing free unfunded health care for veterans.


Yup. There are many models. And there is no one optimal solution,. and the
optimals change with time as well.

But the socialism approach is almost universal in the modern
first and second world now. Even in the USA, although it isnt
universal in the USA. It is almost everywhere else.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 02/07/18 23:14, Jeff wrote:


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that
socialism?
Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

You're confusing socialism and communism.

The NHS, which clearly is socialism, doesn't use the prisons for their
political opponents.


The NHS is not a government.

It is a government operation.

And if you think a corbyn led government wouldn't use the legal system to
suppress disssent, you are barking mad.

In article , Jeff
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that socialism?
Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

You're confusing socialism and communism.

The NHS, which clearly is socialism, doesn't use the prisons for their
political opponents.


If you are going to spread a term around so liberally then first you
should define what it means.
Here's a starter.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

I cannot see any definition of socialism or socialist which allows you
to claim any act of government as socialism.

--
bert

In article , Jeff
writes


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 02/07/18 23:14, Jeff wrote:


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that
socialism?
Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

You're confusing socialism and communism.

The NHS, which clearly is socialism, doesn't use the prisons for
their political opponents.


The NHS is not a government.

It is a government operation.

So was the Iraq war.
And if you think a corbyn led government wouldn't use the legal
system to suppress disssent, you are barking mad.


--
bert

In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 03/07/18 00:27, Jeff wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that socialism?

Yes.

Oh dear.
Surely you aren't actually claiming that the NHS isn't socialism ?

Is the NHS now a prison as well?

It is if you are an older person who can't be discharged because of lack
of social care.

I thought it was a massive fantastically bureactratic ineffecient
bumbling way to get a basic minimum of health care.


Or a sex change operation.

Or bigger tits.
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mbeki was no worse than Jeremy Corbyn would be.

The sad thing is you probably believe that.

Even sadder. It's probably true. After all his cohort refused to condemn
a suggestion from a financial backer that a particular parliamentary
candidate should be lynched.
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Martin Barclay wrote:
I remember what socialism brought under Harold Wilson - roaring
inflation (1974-76) & devaluation of the pound (1967 - devalued by 14% &
the idiot's blundering assurance, that ?the pound here in Britain, in
your pocket or purse or in your bank€˜ was worth no less than before.)
Oh, yes, I remember what socialism brought.

Quite. Falling real living standards for the majority for the last 8 years
or so is far more to your taste.

Sorting out the last socialist mess.

Ah - right. All those failed banks were run by socialists doing socialist
things, then.

Which failed banks would those be? Oh yes LTSB which was perfectly safe
and sound until the forced marriage instigated by Brown to save the
banks in Labour areas.
I'll have to get a new name for the extreme right wing when there are some
around like you.

Centre will do nicely.
--
bert

"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Jeff
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that
socialism?
Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

You're confusing socialism and communism.

The NHS, which clearly is socialism, doesn't use the prisons for their
political opponents.


If you are going to spread a term around so liberally then first you
should define what it means.
Here's a starter.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

That is a hopeless source of a term like that.

I cannot see any definition of socialism or socialist which allows you to
claim any act of government as socialism.

Never said it was. Clearly taxation isnt, and neither are trade agreements.

But the NHS and government schools clearly are.

On 03/07/18 08:49, Jeff wrote:


Same with schools. Public funding, private delievery.



How odd that no country world wide does it like that, for a reason.

Oh dear.

Wrong again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School...mplementations



But the USA also has quite a bit of socialism with health
care, ,particularly with Medicare and Medicaid and the
government providing free unfunded health care for veterans.


Yup. There are many models. And there is no one optimal solution,. and
the optimals change with time as well.

But the socialism approach is almost universal in the modern
first and second world now. Even in the USA, although it isnt
universal in the USA. It is almost everywhere else.

Well no it isn't.




--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat

On 03/07/18 08:51, Jeff wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 02/07/18 23:14, Jeff wrote:


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
Â* "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that
socialism?
Â*Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

You're confusing socialism and communism.

The NHS, which clearly is socialism, doesn't use the prisons for
their political opponents.


The NHS is not a government.

It is a government operation.

So let me see. Sending ministers to climate change conferences is a
government operation, so sending ministers to climate change conferences
is socialism?



And if you think a corbyn led government wouldn't use the legal system
to suppress disssent, you are barking mad.




--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat

On 03/07/18 11:15, Jeff wrote:


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Jeff
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
Â* "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that
socialism?
Â*Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

You're confusing socialism and communism.

The NHS, which clearly is socialism, doesn't use the prisons for
their political opponents.


If you are going to spread a term around so liberally then first you
should define what it means.
Here's a starter.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

That is a hopeless source of a term like that.

I cannot see any definition of socialism or socialist which allows you
to claim any act of government as socialism.

Never said it was.

Yes you did. Liar

Clearly taxation isnt, and neither are trade agreements.

But the NHS and government schools clearly are.

Why?



--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat

On 03/07/18 11:07, bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Â* bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Â*Â* Martin Barclay wrote:
I remember what socialism brought under Harold Wilson - roaring
inflation (1974-76) & devaluation of the pound (1967 - devalued by
14% &
the idiot's blundering assurance, that ?the pound here in Britain, in
your pocket or purse or in your bank€˜ was worth no less than before.)
Oh, yes, I remember what socialism brought.

Quite. Falling real living standards for the majority for the last 8
years
or so is far more to your taste.

Sorting out the last socialist mess.

Ah - right. All those failed banks were run by socialists doing socialist
things, then.

Which failed banks would those be? Oh yes LTSB which was perfectly safe
and sound until the forced marriage instigated by Brown to save the
banks in Labour areas.
I'll have to get a new name for the extreme right wing when there are
some
around like you.

Centre will do nicely.

Remeber it was Gordon Brown who de regualated the banks.



--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
"Socialism" means everything nationalised and everything owned by the
government. No private enterprise at all.

Ah - right. Your black and white world. So perhaps you'll now stop talking
about so called socialist countries except where absolutely everything is
publicly owned.

And when praising your capitalist ideals, only give examples where
everything in that country is privately owned. Including police, judiciary
and armed forces etc.

--
*To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Its a lot quicker and easier to phone up the local farm manager to come
with a tractor and a chhainsaw to clear the branch across the road for
the cost of a pint, than it is tp phone the council, who after a week
will send a team who have all been on H & S courses, block the road for
a day, cut the branch up and cart it off for ecological dispodal (rather
than give it to me for firewood).

Very true. The black market has always been a favourite for the greedy.

--
*I don't work here. I'm a consultant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Public insurance private health care works marvelously.

The NHS should be privatised and the 'everything free' replaced by state
paid insurance.

Paid for by the state - but not you, I assume?

BTW any examples of 'state insurance' Not common for things like pension
funds which are easier to predict. It is simply paid out of state income.
A very different matter.

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And if you think a corbyn led government wouldn't use the legal system
to suppress disssent, you are barking mad.

Most would say you're the mad one for relying on your crystal ball.
Especially given how unreliable it has proved to be over Brexit.

--
*Great groups from little icons grow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I thought it was a massive fantastically bureactratic ineffecient
bumbling way to get a basic minimum of health care.


Or a sex change operation.

Is that why you're going to Germany?

--
*WHOSE CRUEL IDEA WAS IT FOR THE WORD 'LISP' TO HAVE 'S' IN IT?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
bert wrote:
If you are going to spread a term around so liberally then first you
should define what it means.
Here's a starter.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

I cannot see any definition of socialism or socialist which allows you
to claim any act of government as socialism.

You're right there. So stop using it.

--
*After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mbeki was no worse than Jeremy Corbyn would be.

The sad thing is you probably believe that.

Even sadder. It's probably true. After all his cohort

Would that be as in Rees Mogg being a cohort of May?

refused to condemn
a suggestion from a financial backer that a particular parliamentary
candidate should be lynched.

The one thing that infuriates the meja about Corbyn is he refuses to
comment on everything. No wonder rent a gob like Boris and Farage get so
much air time.

--
*When a man opens a car door for his wife, it's either a new car or a new

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Remeber it was Gordon Brown who de regualated the banks.

Tee hee. And I thought one of the reasons you wanted out of the EU was
less regulation. But only obviously when it suits your argument of the
minute.

--
*Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/07/18 14:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Remeber it was Gordon Brown who de regualated the banks.

Tee hee. And I thought one of the reasons you wanted out of the EU was
less regulation. But only obviously when it suits your argument of the
minute.


I want our own regulation, not someone else's.

OK - if the EU is so great, what do you think about the Copyright
Directive they are trying to push through now?

And the so called "Link Tax"?

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/07/18 14:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Remeber it was Gordon Brown who de regualated the banks.

Tee hee. And I thought one of the reasons you wanted out of the EU was
less regulation. But only obviously when it suits your argument of the
minute.


I want our own regulation, not someone else's.

Ok, then, Good or bad regs don't matter, As long as they're ours.

OK - if the EU is so great, what do you think about the Copyright
Directive they are trying to push through now?

I don't think about it at all. Let those who it will effect comment on it.


And the so called "Link Tax"?

Like wise.

--
*Eat well, stay fit, die anyway

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/07/18 17:09, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/07/18 14:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Remeber it was Gordon Brown who de regualated the banks.

Tee hee. And I thought one of the reasons you wanted out of the EU was
less regulation. But only obviously when it suits your argument of the
minute.


I want our own regulation, not someone else's.

Ok, then, Good or bad regs don't matter, As long as they're ours.

OK - if the EU is so great, what do you think about the Copyright
Directive they are trying to push through now?

I don't think about it at all. Let those who it will effect comment on it.




And the so called "Link Tax"?

Like wise.


You don't think "fair use" and "parody" is worth defending - which is
under threat with the proposed Copyright Directive? Nor link neutrality
which is the corner stone of the Web.

This is the EU showing its true tyrannical nature - to regulate what
doesn't need regulating and to whittle away at personal freedoms.




https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a8407566.html

In article , Jeff
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Jeff
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that
socialism?
Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

You're confusing socialism and communism.

The NHS, which clearly is socialism, doesn't use the prisons for
their political opponents.


If you are going to spread a term around so liberally then first you
should define what it means.
Here's a starter.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

That is a hopeless source of a term like that.
Then come up with a better one.

I cannot see any definition of socialism or socialist which allows
you to claim any act of government as socialism.

Never said it was. Clearly taxation isnt, and neither are trade agreements.

But you clearly did.
But the NHS and government schools clearly are.
So things you like the government does is socialism but otherwise it's
not. Hard to see how you can have socialism without taxation so taxation
must be socialism.
Try explaining that to the man on the Clapham omnibus.
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
bert wrote:
If you are going to spread a term around so liberally then first you
should define what it means.
Here's a starter.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

I cannot see any definition of socialism or socialist which allows you
to claim any act of government as socialism.

You're right there. So stop using it.

Using what?
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mbeki was no worse than Jeremy Corbyn would be.

The sad thing is you probably believe that.

Even sadder. It's probably true. After all his cohort

Would that be as in Rees Mogg being a cohort of May?

Another unrelated and stupid comment
refused to condemn
a suggestion from a financial backer that a particular parliamentary
candidate should be lynched.

The one thing that infuriates the meja about Corbyn is he refuses to
comment on everything.
That's because he hasn't been told what to say. Some leader.
No wonder rent a gob like Boris and Farage get so
much air time.


--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Remeber it was Gordon Brown who de regualated the banks.

Tee hee. And I thought one of the reasons you wanted out of the EU was
less regulation. But only obviously when it suits your argument of the
minute.

Less regulation by unelected uncontrollable bodies such as the EU
Commission.
Brown and Labour got their just rewards at the ballot box
--
bert

On 26/06/2018 21:43, ARW wrote:
On 26/06/2018 21:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jun 2018 18:08:57 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

I'm an English patriot.

Dennis the Dunce and Dave Plowperson: the Batman & Robin of political
correctness. What a team! :-D

Does anyone else know how difficult it is to only use PC words and terms
when you get into an argument or a fight with someone of a different
ethnicity?



Don't even try. If anyone objects say things like, "How dare you attempt
to police my language? How patronising is that? This is my language;
I've spoken it all my life, and a [insert derogatory term] like you
isn't going to tell me what I can and can't say. Why do [insert
derogatory term] like you always seem to assume that you have the high
moral ground?"

Bill

On 27/06/2018 00:39, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If only your anus were less dilated.

You an expert in this area?

Bill

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 03/07/18 08:49, Jeff wrote:


Same with schools. Public funding, private delievery.



How odd that no country world wide does it like that, for a reason.

Oh dear.

Wrong again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School...mplementations

Not one of those does that for their entire government schools system
which is what you want to see.

But the USA also has quite a bit of socialism with health
care, ,particularly with Medicare and Medicaid and the
government providing free unfunded health care for veterans.


Yup. There are many models. And there is no one optimal solution,. and
the optimals change with time as well.

But the socialism approach is almost universal in the modern
first and second world now. Even in the USA, although it isnt
universal in the USA. It is almost everywhere else.

Well no it isn't.

Then you will be able to list where it isn't.

"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Jeff
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Jeff
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 01/07/18 18:29, Jeff wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Lets say that prisons are provided by te government. Is that
socialism?
Yes.

Oh dear.


With socialism they use the prisons for their political opponents.

You're confusing socialism and communism.

The NHS, which clearly is socialism, doesn't use the prisons for their
political opponents.


If you are going to spread a term around so liberally then first you
should define what it means.
Here's a starter.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

That is a hopeless source of a term like that.
Then come up with a better one.

I wasn't the one claiming that there is a nice tidy definition of something
like that.

I cannot see any definition of socialism or socialist which allows you
to claim any act of government as socialism.

Never said it was. Clearly taxation isnt, and neither are trade
agreements.

But you clearly did.

No I did not.;

But the NHS and government schools clearly are.

So things you like the government does is socialism but otherwise it's
not.

That's dishonest. And I didn't say that I like socialism either.

Hard to see how you can have socialism without taxation

But perfectly possible to have taxation paying for what isnt
socialism.

so taxation
must be socialism.

No.

Try explaining that to the man on the Clapham omnibus.

There is no such person.

On Mon, 02 Jul 2018 07:29:28 +1000, Jeff wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .

"Socialism" means everything nationalised and everything owned by the
government. No private enterprise at all.

No it does not and no country has ever done that, particularly the
prostitutes and drug runners and home grown vegetables and all sorts of
things like that.

Well for some time now the Left have been calling mainstream
Conservatives "extreme right/alt-right/racists" etc., so you can't really
complain when those of us who are on the right-of-centre don't
differentiate between Socialism and Communism. Maybe if you stopped all
the name-calling and smears we might take a bit more trouble over our
definitions. But there's precious little sign of that ever happening! So
here we are...




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