On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 06:38:35 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed produced
yet more of his rot:

I will,

FLUSH the usual senile rot

Hard to tell who is feeding who. The senile Ozzie the Scottish troll? Or the
gay Scottish ****** the senile Ozzie? LOL

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:38:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:44:35 +0100, wrote:

On Saturday, 2 June 2018 11:41:57 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:12:06 +0100, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 1 June 2018 21:32:34 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:25:40 +0100, Brian Gaff
wrote:

Back many years ago this idea was tried by Philips, their
microwaves with
the drop down door, and with rotating aerial rather than a
turntable. to be
quite honest it was rubbish and left cold spots in the food so
you
still had
to stop and turn the food.

I think the mistake is that the cavity is not moved in relation
to
the food
so standing waves still exist in the same places and only moving
the food
relative to those is a true answer to this.
End of story.
Brian

That doesn't make sense. Spinning the pattern of microwave
radiation
must be identical to spinning the food. In both cases they are
rotated in relation to one another.

not identical at all. turntables produce much better evenness than
stirrers. Both together are best.

As I said, it's relative. The food and the microwave pattern are
relative to each other. Where the oven is and where the kitchen is
don't matter. If you rotate the food, or rotate the microwave
pattern,
PRECISELY the same effect is achieved.

I know you think that, you already said. And as so many have pointed
out
you're clueless.

Not one person has pointed out why one is more efficient than the other.

I will, particularly with the microwaves with a built in meat temperature
sensor. Clearly a lot easier to do those with the food not rotating.

And I can also see why rotating the food gets a more even distribution
of the microwaves into the food too. Harder to explain that one tho.

I see no way it could be explained. Two objects, the food and the
microwave pattern. Rotate one, rotate the other, same effect.

But you can't rotate the microwave source like you can the food.

Rotating some metal thing at the end of the waveguide
the microwaves are coming out of is nowhere as effective
as rotating the food as far as getting an even distribution
of the microwaves in the food is concerned.

Please do explain and I will be happy to accept I'm wrong. I doubt
Panasonic will though.

With anything where you see both offered, there must be good reasons for
both approaches and it can't just be habit/tradition when its been going
on for 40 years or more now.

Price I would think.

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:15:55 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:44:04 +0100, Peter Johnson
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:14:53 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

I haven't been given information to accept or otherwise. Not one
person
has put forward any argument for your side. Not one. And as I said,
Panasonic seem to think the flatbed system is better. Feel free to
argue with their managing director. Good luck with that.

I've a Panasonic one for just over three years. It's quicker than its
turntable predecessor and I've never had any problems with it not
cooking food throughout.

I've never had a problem with any microwave not cooking throughout.

Conventional ovens are uneven, they burn the outside and don't cook the
inside sufficiently.

For some stuff like a leg of lamb, you need that effect to get
a properly done outside and pink inside that most prefer.

Same with steak, hopeless in a microwave.

Not that I eat meat,

That's why.

but I don't see why you'd want uneven cooking of anything.

A leg of lamb with a nice crisp brown fat layer on the
outside and nice pink meat on the inside is vastly superior
to the same leg of lamb the same all the way thru.

Same with a rare or medium rare steak.

True of meat pies too, you want a crisp crust with cooked
meat inside, not the soggy crust you get with a microwave.

Same with toast, its real toast because it isnt cooked uniformly,
its toast because its more cooked on the outside than inside.

The only advantage I can see for flatbeds is, as Panasonic advertise,
you
can stick any shape of dish in there. It doesn't need room to rotate.

And presumably is harder to design so it works well.

Spinning aerial and a wave guide tube, not that hard surely?

But that doesn't get the same uniform effect as rotating the food.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:38:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:44:35 +0100, wrote:

On Saturday, 2 June 2018 11:41:57 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:12:06 +0100, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 1 June 2018 21:32:34 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:25:40 +0100, Brian Gaff
wrote:

Back many years ago this idea was tried by Philips, their
microwaves with
the drop down door, and with rotating aerial rather than a
turntable. to be
quite honest it was rubbish and left cold spots in the food so
you
still had
to stop and turn the food.

I think the mistake is that the cavity is not moved in relation
to
the food
so standing waves still exist in the same places and only moving
the food
relative to those is a true answer to this.
End of story.
Brian

That doesn't make sense. Spinning the pattern of microwave
radiation
must be identical to spinning the food. In both cases they are
rotated in relation to one another.

not identical at all. turntables produce much better evenness than
stirrers. Both together are best.

As I said, it's relative. The food and the microwave pattern are
relative to each other. Where the oven is and where the kitchen is
don't matter. If you rotate the food, or rotate the microwave
pattern,
PRECISELY the same effect is achieved.

I know you think that, you already said. And as so many have pointed
out
you're clueless.

Not one person has pointed out why one is more efficient than the other.

I will, particularly with the microwaves with a built in meat temperature
sensor. Clearly a lot easier to do those with the food not rotating.

And I can also see why rotating the food gets a more even distribution
of the microwaves into the food too. Harder to explain that one tho.

I see no way it could be explained. Two objects, the food and the
microwave pattern. Rotate one, rotate the other, same effect.

But you can't rotate the microwave source like you can the food.

Rotating some metal thing at the end of the waveguide
the microwaves are coming out of is nowhere as effective
as rotating the food as far as getting an even distribution
of the microwaves in the food is concerned.

Why not? When they metal thing had rotated 90 degrees, so has the weave pattern. Precisely the same effect as if the food had rotated 90 degrees.

Please do explain and I will be happy to accept I'm wrong. I doubt
Panasonic will though.

With anything where you see both offered, there must be good reasons for
both approaches and it can't just be habit/tradition when its been going
on for 40 years or more now.

Price I would think.

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect half the stuff. Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling, so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste. Would have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the lorry.

--
Gary's weather forecasting stone:
Stone is wet Rain
Stone is dry Not raining
Shadow on ground Sunny
White on top Snowing
Can't see stone Foggy
Swinging stone Windy
Stone jumping up and down Earthquake
Stone gone Tornado

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:31:53 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:15:55 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:44:04 +0100, Peter Johnson
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:14:53 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

I haven't been given information to accept or otherwise. Not one
person
has put forward any argument for your side. Not one. And as I said,
Panasonic seem to think the flatbed system is better. Feel free to
argue with their managing director. Good luck with that.

I've a Panasonic one for just over three years. It's quicker than its
turntable predecessor and I've never had any problems with it not
cooking food throughout.

I've never had a problem with any microwave not cooking throughout.

Conventional ovens are uneven, they burn the outside and don't cook the
inside sufficiently.

For some stuff like a leg of lamb, you need that effect to get
a properly done outside and pink inside that most prefer.

Same with steak, hopeless in a microwave.

Not that I eat meat,

That's why.

but I don't see why you'd want uneven cooking of anything.

A leg of lamb with a nice crisp brown fat layer on the
outside and nice pink meat on the inside is vastly superior
to the same leg of lamb the same all the way thru.

Same with a rare or medium rare steak.

True of meat pies too, you want a crisp crust with cooked
meat inside, not the soggy crust you get with a microwave.

Meat has already been eaten, I prefer original food.

Same with toast, its real toast because it isnt cooked uniformly,
its toast because its more cooked on the outside than inside.

That's about the only thing I wouldn't microwave.

The only advantage I can see for flatbeds is, as Panasonic advertise,
you
can stick any shape of dish in there. It doesn't need room to rotate.

And presumably is harder to design so it works well.

Spinning aerial and a wave guide tube, not that hard surely?

But that doesn't get the same uniform effect as rotating the food.

No reason it shouldn't. One is relative to the other and nothing else. Like two spaceships, one accelerates away from the other, or the other accelerates away from the first, same effect.

--
Maybe "god" doesn't really care about religions, which were, after all, created by men... just like "god" was.

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 08:31:53 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed produced
yet more of his notorious rot:

FLUSH another load the senile idiot's usual rot

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 08:16:14 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed produced
yet more of his notorious rot:

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Yep, you are DEFINITELY as much of a driveling idiot as the Scottish sow,
you driveling senile moron! LOL

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:38:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:44:35 +0100, wrote:

On Saturday, 2 June 2018 11:41:57 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:12:06 +0100, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 1 June 2018 21:32:34 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:25:40 +0100, Brian Gaff
wrote:

Back many years ago this idea was tried by Philips, their
microwaves with
the drop down door, and with rotating aerial rather than a
turntable. to be
quite honest it was rubbish and left cold spots in the food so
you
still had
to stop and turn the food.

I think the mistake is that the cavity is not moved in relation
to
the food
so standing waves still exist in the same places and only
moving
the food
relative to those is a true answer to this.
End of story.
Brian

That doesn't make sense. Spinning the pattern of microwave
radiation
must be identical to spinning the food. In both cases they are
rotated in relation to one another.

not identical at all. turntables produce much better evenness than
stirrers. Both together are best.

As I said, it's relative. The food and the microwave pattern are
relative to each other. Where the oven is and where the kitchen is
don't matter. If you rotate the food, or rotate the microwave
pattern,
PRECISELY the same effect is achieved.

I know you think that, you already said. And as so many have pointed
out
you're clueless.

Not one person has pointed out why one is more efficient than the
other.

I will, particularly with the microwaves with a built in meat
temperature
sensor. Clearly a lot easier to do those with the food not rotating.

And I can also see why rotating the food gets a more even distribution
of the microwaves into the food too. Harder to explain that one tho.

I see no way it could be explained. Two objects, the food and the
microwave pattern. Rotate one, rotate the other, same effect.

But you can't rotate the microwave source like you can the food.

Rotating some metal thing at the end of the waveguide
the microwaves are coming out of is nowhere as effective
as rotating the food as far as getting an even distribution
of the microwaves in the food is concerned.

Why not?

Basically because of the frequency used, you get standing
waves in the oven and some rotating metal at the end of
the waveguide doesn't have all that much effect on those;

When they metal thing had rotated 90 degrees, so has the weave pattern.

No, because you get standing waves in the
part of the microwave where the food is.

Precisely the same effect as if the food had rotated 90 degrees.

No, a quite different effect as the food
moves thru the standing waves.

Please do explain and I will be happy to accept I'm wrong. I doubt
Panasonic will though.

With anything where you see both offered, there must be good reasons
for
both approaches and it can't just be habit/tradition when its been
going
on for 40 years or more now.

Price I would think.

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect half
the stuff.

Ours doesn't refused to take it, you're free to take
it to the dump yourself, and pay $25 per tailer or
ute load, $10 per car or station wagon and they
have 2 or 3 free dump weekends a year as well.

But that doesn't work very well for those who only have
a car with the bigger stuff like mattresses, lounges, dead
fridges etc.

Our council is unusual in that regard tho, most councils here
do have a few days a year where they will show up with a
truck and pick up the big stuff that's left on the nature strip.

Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling,

Our dump has a 40' container you put
that stuff in that is replaced when its full.

so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste. Would
have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the lorry.

Our trucks that show up every week compress the
rubbish and that would normally explode the tube.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:31:53 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:15:55 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:44:04 +0100, Peter Johnson
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:14:53 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

I haven't been given information to accept or otherwise. Not one
person
has put forward any argument for your side. Not one. And as I
said,
Panasonic seem to think the flatbed system is better. Feel free to
argue with their managing director. Good luck with that.

I've a Panasonic one for just over three years. It's quicker than its
turntable predecessor and I've never had any problems with it not
cooking food throughout.

I've never had a problem with any microwave not cooking throughout.

Conventional ovens are uneven, they burn the outside and don't cook
the
inside sufficiently.

For some stuff like a leg of lamb, you need that effect to get
a properly done outside and pink inside that most prefer.

Same with steak, hopeless in a microwave.

Not that I eat meat,

That's why.

but I don't see why you'd want uneven cooking of anything.

A leg of lamb with a nice crisp brown fat layer on the
outside and nice pink meat on the inside is vastly superior
to the same leg of lamb the same all the way thru.

Same with a rare or medium rare steak.

True of meat pies too, you want a crisp crust with cooked
meat inside, not the soggy crust you get with a microwave.

Meat has already been eaten, I prefer original food.

Same with toast, its real toast because it isnt cooked uniformly,
its toast because its more cooked on the outside than inside.

That's about the only thing I wouldn't microwave.

I don't anything that I need a crisp crust on.

I eat a lot of what we call chicken pillows and a lot of breadcrumbed stuff
too. Those are much better in a conventional oven. Roast potatoes in spades.
http://lespetitesgourmettes.com/wp-c...en-pillows.jpg

The only advantage I can see for flatbeds is, as Panasonic advertise,
you can stick any shape of dish in there. It doesn't need room to
rotate.

And presumably is harder to design so it works well.

Spinning aerial and a wave guide tube, not that hard surely?

But that doesn't get the same uniform effect as rotating the food.

No reason it shouldn't.

Yes there is, the standing waves.

One is relative to the other and nothing else.

Fraid not.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:01:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:08:15 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news On 01/06/2018 18:13, Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:21:19 +0100, Graham.
wrote:

This is what I think of as a magnetron, as used in conventional
microwave ovens with a turntable:
http://www.hokuto.co.jp/eng/products...dex_img_01.gif
It's about the size of a fist. So how do they make them flat
under
the food cavity in flatbed ovens? Does the magnetron sit under
there
and is redesigned to be flat? Or is there some kind of fancy
rotating
waveguide, and the magnetron sits at the side as before?


Basically the later I should think.

The one I had in the 1980s had a large aperture covered with mica
on
the roof of the cooking cavity. The Magnetron was at the side of
the
cavity with a brass wave guide leading up to the top. A
squirrel-cage
fan blows air up the wave guide and not only cools the Magnetron,
but
also rotates a paddle-wheel at the top, a rotating antenna,
carrying
multiple reflectors thar distribute the radiation throughout the
cavity. I imagine modern bottom entry ones do a similar trick, but
I
have yet to work on one.

I didn't realise they were available in 1980. So why aren't they
all
like that? Does it add a lot to the price?

The one we had is in the last illustration on this page

https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/P...iterature.html

I've still got the 170 page hard-back cookery book.


That looks quite a sophisticated one for the early 80s. We bought one
around 1981 and it had just a simple turn and 'run back' timer. It did
last about 17 years, with only a couple of O rings in the turn table
drive. We only disposed of it as it started to look tatty.

I'm still using the Sharp I bought in 73 almost every day.

It does have a proper electronic control and display.

Never had to do a thing to it.

Corse now it will curl up and die and it will be your fault.

Whatever happened to Sharp,

Nothing special here.

they still seem to be in business,

Yep.

but I haven't seen anything made by them for a decade or two.

They arent as cheap as the worst crap but still buyable here.
https://www.sharp.net.au/

Maybe here too, but I just haven't seen anyone with a Sharp device for 20
years. They used to be everywhere. AFAIK they were always midrange. Not
overpriced like Sony, but decent. Something like LG.

Just checked a retailer he
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/househ...-criteria.html
5 Sharp microwaves on offer, but 40 Russell Hobbs, 29 Bosch, 24 Swan, 15
Samsung, 25 Hotpoint. So not the most popular by far.

There's heaps here
https://www.sharp.net.au/home-products/microwaves

On 03/06/2018 00:28, Rod Speed wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect
half the stuff.

Ours doesn't refused to take it, you're free to take
it to the dump yourself, and pay $25 per tailer or
ute load, $10 per car or station wagon and they
have 2 or 3 free dump weekends a year as well.

But that doesn't work very well for those who only have
a car with the bigger stuff like mattresses, lounges, dead
fridges etc.

Our council is unusual in that regard tho, most councils here
do have a few days a year where they will show up with a
truck and pick up the big stuff that's left on the* nature strip.

Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling,

Our dump has a 40' container you put
that stuff in that is replaced when its full.

so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste.
Would have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the lorry.

Our trucks that show up every week compress the
rubbish and that would normally explode the tube.

In the UK there are large recycling centres (sometimes combined with a
landfill site) where you can take all kinds of stuff for free - but you
have to drive there in a car - not a van (or they charge you the
commercial rate) - and you can't walk in.

There are also a few "small electricals" bins around that take items up
to the size of a VCR.

Some councils will collect small electricals left out on the kerbside
with the domestic waste.

Otherwise you have to pay them to collect large items.

Most large supermarket car parks have bins for bottles, paper and card
&c., though usually this is also collected with the domestic waste in
separate bins/boxes.

--
Max Demian

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 09:45:07 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed produced
yet more rot:


There's heaps here
https://www.sharp.net.au/home-products/microwaves

Senile idiot and infantile idiot -after a long period of estrangement and
sulking at each other- found each other again! Bruahahahahahahahahahaaa!!!

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 09:39:16 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed produced
yet more rot:

I don't anything that I need a crisp crust on.

I eat a lot of what we call chicken pillows and a lot of breadcrumbed stuff
too. Those are much better in a conventional oven. Roast potatoes in spades.
http://lespetitesgourmettes.com/wp-c...en-pillows.jpg

Nobody in your old people's home talking to you today again, poor Rot? It
SHOWS! BG

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 09:28:44 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed produced
yet more rot:

FLUSH the abnormal senile geezer's usual rot

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 03/06/2018 00:28, Rod Speed wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect half
the stuff.

Ours doesn't refused to take it, you're free to take
it to the dump yourself, and pay $25 per tailer or
ute load, $10 per car or station wagon and they
have 2 or 3 free dump weekends a year as well.

But that doesn't work very well for those who only have
a car with the bigger stuff like mattresses, lounges, dead
fridges etc.

Our council is unusual in that regard tho, most councils here
do have a few days a year where they will show up with a
truck and pick up the big stuff that's left on the nature strip.

Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling,

Our dump has a 40' container you put
that stuff in that is replaced when its full.

so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste.
Would have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the
lorry.

Our trucks that show up every week compress the
rubbish and that would normally explode the tube.

In the UK there are large recycling centres (sometimes combined with a
landfill site) where you can take all kinds of stuff for free - but you
have to drive there in a car - not a van (or they charge you the
commercial rate) - and you can't walk in.

There are also a few "small electricals" bins around that take items up to
the size of a VCR.

Some councils will collect small electricals left out on the kerbside with
the domestic waste.

Otherwise you have to pay them to collect large items.

Most large supermarket car parks have bins for bottles, paper and card
&c., though usually this is also collected with the domestic waste in
separate bins/boxes.

Ours now have machines that pay you for bottles with barcodes on them.

Corse you pay more for the bottles with stuff in them when you buy them too.

"Rod Speed" wrote in
:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:01:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:08:15 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news On 01/06/2018 18:13, Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:21:19 +0100, Graham.
wrote:

This is what I think of as a magnetron, as used in
conventional microwave ovens with a turntable:
http://www.hokuto.co.jp/eng/products...img/index_img_
0
1.gif It's about the size of a fist. So how do they make
them flat under
the food cavity in flatbed ovens? Does the magnetron sit
under there
and is redesigned to be flat? Or is there some kind of fancy
rotating
waveguide, and the magnetron sits at the side as before?


Basically the later I should think.

The one I had in the 1980s had a large aperture covered with
mica on
the roof of the cooking cavity. The Magnetron was at the side
of the
cavity with a brass wave guide leading up to the top. A
squirrel-cage
fan blows air up the wave guide and not only cools the
Magnetron, but
also rotates a paddle-wheel at the top, a rotating antenna,
carrying
multiple reflectors thar distribute the radiation throughout
I recall a Phillips one in the 70's which had the controls and
presumably the magnetron above the cavity. I don't think it had a
turntable. One would suit me now as it woual be narrower.

I recall a Phillips one in the 70's which had the controls and
presumably the magnetron above the cavity. I don't think it had a
turntable. One would suit me now as it woual be narrower.

There are also a few "small electricals" bins around that take items
up to the size of a VCR.

Some councils will collect small electricals left out on the kerbside
with the domestic waste.


AKA Gypsies.

On 03/06/2018 11:32, DerbyBorn wrote:

There are also a few "small electricals" bins around that take items
up to the size of a VCR.

Some councils will collect small electricals left out on the kerbside
with the domestic waste.

AKA Gypsies.

I used to see a flat bed truck with a kind of open top cage on the back
going around ringing a bell in the manner of, "Bring out your dead!" I
assume it was for dead appliances and other stuff with scrap value
rather than corpses.

--
Max Demian

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:39:16 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:31:53 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:15:55 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:44:04 +0100, Peter Johnson
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:14:53 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

I haven't been given information to accept or otherwise. Not one
person
has put forward any argument for your side. Not one. And as I
said,
Panasonic seem to think the flatbed system is better. Feel free to
argue with their managing director. Good luck with that.

I've a Panasonic one for just over three years. It's quicker than its
turntable predecessor and I've never had any problems with it not
cooking food throughout.

I've never had a problem with any microwave not cooking throughout.

Conventional ovens are uneven, they burn the outside and don't cook
the
inside sufficiently.

For some stuff like a leg of lamb, you need that effect to get
a properly done outside and pink inside that most prefer.

Same with steak, hopeless in a microwave.

Not that I eat meat,

That's why.

but I don't see why you'd want uneven cooking of anything.

A leg of lamb with a nice crisp brown fat layer on the
outside and nice pink meat on the inside is vastly superior
to the same leg of lamb the same all the way thru.

Same with a rare or medium rare steak.

True of meat pies too, you want a crisp crust with cooked
meat inside, not the soggy crust you get with a microwave.

Meat has already been eaten, I prefer original food.

Same with toast, its real toast because it isnt cooked uniformly,
its toast because its more cooked on the outside than inside.

That's about the only thing I wouldn't microwave.

I don't anything that I need a crisp crust on.

I eat a lot of what we call chicken pillows and a lot of breadcrumbed stuff
too. Those are much better in a conventional oven. Roast potatoes in spades.
http://lespetitesgourmettes.com/wp-c...en-pillows.jpg

I eat when I'm hungry. I want the food within minutes not an hour. Waiting for the food is like being in a ****ing restaurant. Why can't restaurants get organised and have food already cooked? They must know roughly how many of each dish will be ordered, so they could start some off.

The only advantage I can see for flatbeds is, as Panasonic advertise,
you can stick any shape of dish in there. It doesn't need room to
rotate.

And presumably is harder to design so it works well.

Spinning aerial and a wave guide tube, not that hard surely?

But that doesn't get the same uniform effect as rotating the food.

No reason it shouldn't.

Yes there is, the standing waves.

One is relative to the other and nothing else.

Fraid not.

Yes I know there are standing waves, but that pattern gets rotated with the waveguide thingies. In precisely the same way as the food rotates through the stationary ones.

--
Today's woman puts on wigs, fake eyelashes, false fingernails, sixteen pounds of assorted make-up/shadows/blushes/creams, living bras, various pads that would make a linebacker envious, has implants and assorted other surgeries, then complains that she cannot find a "real" man.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:39:16 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:31:53 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:15:55 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:44:04 +0100, Peter Johnson
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:14:53 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

I haven't been given information to accept or otherwise. Not one
person
has put forward any argument for your side. Not one. And as I
said,
Panasonic seem to think the flatbed system is better. Feel free
to
argue with their managing director. Good luck with that.

I've a Panasonic one for just over three years. It's quicker than
its
turntable predecessor and I've never had any problems with it not
cooking food throughout.

I've never had a problem with any microwave not cooking throughout.

Conventional ovens are uneven, they burn the outside and don't cook
the
inside sufficiently.

For some stuff like a leg of lamb, you need that effect to get
a properly done outside and pink inside that most prefer.

Same with steak, hopeless in a microwave.

Not that I eat meat,

That's why.

but I don't see why you'd want uneven cooking of anything.

A leg of lamb with a nice crisp brown fat layer on the
outside and nice pink meat on the inside is vastly superior
to the same leg of lamb the same all the way thru.

Same with a rare or medium rare steak.

True of meat pies too, you want a crisp crust with cooked
meat inside, not the soggy crust you get with a microwave.

Meat has already been eaten, I prefer original food.

Same with toast, its real toast because it isnt cooked uniformly,
its toast because its more cooked on the outside than inside.

That's about the only thing I wouldn't microwave.

I don't anything that I need a crisp crust on.

I eat a lot of what we call chicken pillows and a lot of breadcrumbed
stuff
too. Those are much better in a conventional oven. Roast potatoes in
spades.
http://lespetitesgourmettes.com/wp-c...en-pillows.jpg

I eat when I'm hungry. I want the food within minutes not an hour.

Doesn't take anything like an hour for anything except a roast leg of lamb
etc.

Waiting for the food is like being in a ****ing restaurant. Why can't
restaurants get organised and have food already cooked?

They do, but we call those that do fast food places.

They must know roughly how many of each dish will be ordered, so they
could start some off.

They do with some stuff like currys etc and pies.

And cooking the fish and chips or pizzas doesn't take that long.

Kebabs are pre cooked too.

The only advantage I can see for flatbeds is, as Panasonic
advertise,
you can stick any shape of dish in there. It doesn't need room to
rotate.

And presumably is harder to design so it works well.

Spinning aerial and a wave guide tube, not that hard surely?

But that doesn't get the same uniform effect as rotating the food.

No reason it shouldn't.

Yes there is, the standing waves.

One is relative to the other and nothing else.

Fraid not.

Yes I know there are standing waves, but that pattern gets rotated with
the waveguide thingies.

Not as well as rotating the food does.

In precisely the same way as the food rotates through the stationary ones.

Fraid not, quite differently.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 06:49:25 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed produced
yet more rot:


FLUSH rot

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:45:07 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:01:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:08:15 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news On 01/06/2018 18:13, Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:21:19 +0100, Graham.
wrote:

This is what I think of as a magnetron, as used in conventional
microwave ovens with a turntable:
http://www.hokuto.co.jp/eng/products...dex_img_01.gif
It's about the size of a fist. So how do they make them flat
under
the food cavity in flatbed ovens? Does the magnetron sit under
there
and is redesigned to be flat? Or is there some kind of fancy
rotating
waveguide, and the magnetron sits at the side as before?


Basically the later I should think.

The one I had in the 1980s had a large aperture covered with mica
on
the roof of the cooking cavity. The Magnetron was at the side of
the
cavity with a brass wave guide leading up to the top. A
squirrel-cage
fan blows air up the wave guide and not only cools the Magnetron,
but
also rotates a paddle-wheel at the top, a rotating antenna,
carrying
multiple reflectors thar distribute the radiation throughout the
cavity. I imagine modern bottom entry ones do a similar trick, but
I
have yet to work on one.

I didn't realise they were available in 1980. So why aren't they
all
like that? Does it add a lot to the price?

The one we had is in the last illustration on this page

https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/P...iterature.html

I've still got the 170 page hard-back cookery book.


That looks quite a sophisticated one for the early 80s. We bought one
around 1981 and it had just a simple turn and 'run back' timer. It did
last about 17 years, with only a couple of O rings in the turn table
drive. We only disposed of it as it started to look tatty.

I'm still using the Sharp I bought in 73 almost every day.

It does have a proper electronic control and display.

Never had to do a thing to it.

Corse now it will curl up and die and it will be your fault.

Whatever happened to Sharp,

Nothing special here.

they still seem to be in business,

Yep.

but I haven't seen anything made by them for a decade or two.

They arent as cheap as the worst crap but still buyable here.
https://www.sharp.net.au/

Maybe here too, but I just haven't seen anyone with a Sharp device for 20
years. They used to be everywhere. AFAIK they were always midrange. Not
overpriced like Sony, but decent. Something like LG.

Just checked a retailer he
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/househ...-criteria.html
5 Sharp microwaves on offer, but 40 Russell Hobbs, 29 Bosch, 24 Swan, 15
Samsung, 25 Hotpoint. So not the most popular by far.

There's heaps here
https://www.sharp.net.au/home-products/microwaves

Yes, but how common are they compared to other makes?

--
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kick boxing.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 11:29:55 +0100, DerbyBorn wrote:

"Rod Speed" wrote in
:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:01:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:08:15 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news On 01/06/2018 18:13, Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:21:19 +0100, Graham.
wrote:

This is what I think of as a magnetron, as used in
conventional microwave ovens with a turntable:
http://www.hokuto.co.jp/eng/products...img/index_img_
0
1.gif It's about the size of a fist. So how do they make
them flat under
the food cavity in flatbed ovens? Does the magnetron sit
under there
and is redesigned to be flat? Or is there some kind of fancy
rotating
waveguide, and the magnetron sits at the side as before?


Basically the later I should think.

The one I had in the 1980s had a large aperture covered with
mica on
the roof of the cooking cavity. The Magnetron was at the side
of the
cavity with a brass wave guide leading up to the top. A
squirrel-cage
fan blows air up the wave guide and not only cools the
Magnetron, but
also rotates a paddle-wheel at the top, a rotating antenna,
carrying
multiple reflectors thar distribute the radiation throughout
I recall a Phillips one in the 70's which had the controls and
presumably the magnetron above the cavity. I don't think it had a
turntable. One would suit me now as it woual be narrower.

I wonder if it rotated? How unevenly cooked would something be without rotation? Would conduction of heat make up for it? I guess somebody could try it by removing the turntable from a conventional microwave.

--
Two men were talking.
"My son asked me what I did during the Sexual Revolution," said one.
"I told him I was captured early and spent the duration doing the dishes.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 10:46:09 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 03/06/2018 00:28, Rod Speed wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect half
the stuff.

Ours doesn't refused to take it, you're free to take
it to the dump yourself, and pay $25 per tailer or
ute load, $10 per car or station wagon and they
have 2 or 3 free dump weekends a year as well.

But that doesn't work very well for those who only have
a car with the bigger stuff like mattresses, lounges, dead
fridges etc.

Our council is unusual in that regard tho, most councils here
do have a few days a year where they will show up with a
truck and pick up the big stuff that's left on the nature strip.

Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling,

Our dump has a 40' container you put
that stuff in that is replaced when its full.

so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste.
Would have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the
lorry.

Our trucks that show up every week compress the
rubbish and that would normally explode the tube.

In the UK there are large recycling centres (sometimes combined with a
landfill site) where you can take all kinds of stuff for free - but you
have to drive there in a car - not a van (or they charge you the
commercial rate) - and you can't walk in.

There are also a few "small electricals" bins around that take items up to
the size of a VCR.

Some councils will collect small electricals left out on the kerbside with
the domestic waste.

Otherwise you have to pay them to collect large items.

Most large supermarket car parks have bins for bottles, paper and card
&c., though usually this is also collected with the domestic waste in
separate bins/boxes.

Ours now have machines that pay you for bottles with barcodes on them.

Corse you pay more for the bottles with stuff in them when you buy them too.

They're thinking about doing that insanely stupid idea here. I already recycle my bottles in one of my wheelybins, why should I go to more trouble?

--
What has four legs, is big, green, fuzzy, and if it fell out of a tree would kill you?
A pool table.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 12:26:50 +0100, Max Demian wrote:

On 03/06/2018 11:32, DerbyBorn wrote:

There are also a few "small electricals" bins around that take items
up to the size of a VCR.

Some councils will collect small electricals left out on the kerbside
with the domestic waste.

AKA Gypsies.

I used to see a flat bed truck with a kind of open top cage on the back
going around ringing a bell in the manner of, "Bring out your dead!" I
assume it was for dead appliances and other stuff with scrap value
rather than corpses.

Still got one here. He shouts "Any old scrap metal?" And occasionally "Washing machines, microwaves, dishwashers, ...." sounding more like he's selling them than collecting them. I spotted his van while I was out and told him I had a huge chest freezer. He collected it for free. I couldn't be bothered heaving it into the back of my car to take to the skip.

--
Maybe . . .
Flying saucers are real and the Air Force doesn't exist.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:28:44 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:38:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:44:35 +0100, wrote:

On Saturday, 2 June 2018 11:41:57 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:12:06 +0100, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 1 June 2018 21:32:34 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:25:40 +0100, Brian Gaff
wrote:

Back many years ago this idea was tried by Philips, their
microwaves with
the drop down door, and with rotating aerial rather than a
turntable. to be
quite honest it was rubbish and left cold spots in the food so
you
still had
to stop and turn the food.

I think the mistake is that the cavity is not moved in relation
to
the food
so standing waves still exist in the same places and only
moving
the food
relative to those is a true answer to this.
End of story.
Brian

That doesn't make sense. Spinning the pattern of microwave
radiation
must be identical to spinning the food. In both cases they are
rotated in relation to one another.

not identical at all. turntables produce much better evenness than
stirrers. Both together are best.

As I said, it's relative. The food and the microwave pattern are
relative to each other. Where the oven is and where the kitchen is
don't matter. If you rotate the food, or rotate the microwave
pattern,
PRECISELY the same effect is achieved.

I know you think that, you already said. And as so many have pointed
out
you're clueless.

Not one person has pointed out why one is more efficient than the
other.

I will, particularly with the microwaves with a built in meat
temperature
sensor. Clearly a lot easier to do those with the food not rotating.

And I can also see why rotating the food gets a more even distribution
of the microwaves into the food too. Harder to explain that one tho.

I see no way it could be explained. Two objects, the food and the
microwave pattern. Rotate one, rotate the other, same effect.

But you can't rotate the microwave source like you can the food.

Rotating some metal thing at the end of the waveguide
the microwaves are coming out of is nowhere as effective
as rotating the food as far as getting an even distribution
of the microwaves in the food is concerned.

Why not?

Basically because of the frequency used, you get standing
waves in the oven and some rotating metal at the end of
the waveguide doesn't have all that much effect on those;

I see. But Panasonic seem to think it works. Anyone ever compared the two as in how evenly the food gets cooked?

When they metal thing had rotated 90 degrees, so has the weave pattern.

No, because you get standing waves in the
part of the microwave where the food is.

Yeah I was (incorrectly) thinking those would change shape with the source moving, but I guess not.

Precisely the same effect as if the food had rotated 90 degrees.

No, a quite different effect as the food
moves thru the standing waves.

Please do explain and I will be happy to accept I'm wrong. I doubt
Panasonic will though.

With anything where you see both offered, there must be good reasons
for
both approaches and it can't just be habit/tradition when its been
going
on for 40 years or more now.

Price I would think.

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect half
the stuff.

Ours doesn't refused to take it, you're free to take
it to the dump yourself, and pay $25 per tailer or
ute load, $10 per car or station wagon and they
have 2 or 3 free dump weekends a year as well.

You have to pay to dump it?! But you pay council tax to cover that. Plus they're getting the raw materials! They're conning you threefold!

But that doesn't work very well for those who only have
a car with the bigger stuff like mattresses, lounges, dead
fridges etc.

Find someone with a trailer, they allow those here. They (for some reason) charge commercial dumpers, like gardeners, tradesmen etc, but sensible tradesmen take the stuff in a trailer attached to their own car then don't pay :-) Or if you go in the last half hour before closing time, there's nobody at the entrance to charge you and you just drive straight in.

Our council is unusual in that regard tho, most councils here
do have a few days a year where they will show up with a
truck and pick up the big stuff that's left on the nature strip.

Not collecting stuff free is a silly idea - the poorer parts around here where people don't have cars, their TVs just get dumped on the nearest bit of land until the council comes to collect them.

Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling,

Our dump has a 40' container you put
that stuff in that is replaced when its full.

Why should I drive all the way to the skip just for a 14" TV? It went in the normal waste wheelybin, **** them.

so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste. Would
have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the lorry.

Our trucks that show up every week compress the
rubbish and that would normally explode the tube.

Ours compress too, but I don't think they're strong enough to implode a tube. The compression thing is a big thick rubber sheet, probably designed that way so it doesn't jam on uncompressable materials.

--
Reticulating splines....

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 21:49:25 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:39:16 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:31:53 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:15:55 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:44:04 +0100, Peter Johnson
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:14:53 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

I haven't been given information to accept or otherwise. Not one
person
has put forward any argument for your side. Not one. And as I
said,
Panasonic seem to think the flatbed system is better. Feel free
to
argue with their managing director. Good luck with that.

I've a Panasonic one for just over three years. It's quicker than
its
turntable predecessor and I've never had any problems with it not
cooking food throughout.

I've never had a problem with any microwave not cooking throughout.

Conventional ovens are uneven, they burn the outside and don't cook
the
inside sufficiently.

For some stuff like a leg of lamb, you need that effect to get
a properly done outside and pink inside that most prefer.

Same with steak, hopeless in a microwave.

Not that I eat meat,

That's why.

but I don't see why you'd want uneven cooking of anything.

A leg of lamb with a nice crisp brown fat layer on the
outside and nice pink meat on the inside is vastly superior
to the same leg of lamb the same all the way thru.

Same with a rare or medium rare steak.

True of meat pies too, you want a crisp crust with cooked
meat inside, not the soggy crust you get with a microwave.

Meat has already been eaten, I prefer original food.

Same with toast, its real toast because it isnt cooked uniformly,
its toast because its more cooked on the outside than inside.

That's about the only thing I wouldn't microwave.

I don't anything that I need a crisp crust on.

I eat a lot of what we call chicken pillows and a lot of breadcrumbed
stuff
too. Those are much better in a conventional oven. Roast potatoes in
spades.
http://lespetitesgourmettes.com/wp-c...en-pillows.jpg

I eat when I'm hungry. I want the food within minutes not an hour.

Doesn't take anything like an hour for anything except a roast leg of lamb
etc.

Potatoes take an hour.

Waiting for the food is like being in a ****ing restaurant. Why can't
restaurants get organised and have food already cooked?

They do, but we call those that do fast food places.

But I've never seen a place that serves decent meals (not just burgers) in a decent timeframe.

They must know roughly how many of each dish will be ordered, so they
could start some off.

They do with some stuff like currys etc and pies.

And cooking the fish and chips or pizzas doesn't take that long.

Kebabs are pre cooked too.

Every restaurant I've been to I've waited on average 30 minutes.

--
Peter is listening to "The club can't handle me - Flo Rida feat. David Guetta"

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 10:46:09 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 03/06/2018 00:28, Rod Speed wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do
it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect
half
the stuff.

Ours doesn't refused to take it, you're free to take
it to the dump yourself, and pay $25 per tailer or
ute load, $10 per car or station wagon and they
have 2 or 3 free dump weekends a year as well.

But that doesn't work very well for those who only have
a car with the bigger stuff like mattresses, lounges, dead
fridges etc.

Our council is unusual in that regard tho, most councils here
do have a few days a year where they will show up with a
truck and pick up the big stuff that's left on the nature strip.

Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling,

Our dump has a 40' container you put
that stuff in that is replaced when its full.

so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste.
Would have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the
lorry.

Our trucks that show up every week compress the
rubbish and that would normally explode the tube.

In the UK there are large recycling centres (sometimes combined with a
landfill site) where you can take all kinds of stuff for free - but you
have to drive there in a car - not a van (or they charge you the
commercial rate) - and you can't walk in.

There are also a few "small electricals" bins around that take items up
to
the size of a VCR.

Some councils will collect small electricals left out on the kerbside
with
the domestic waste.

Otherwise you have to pay them to collect large items.

Most large supermarket car parks have bins for bottles, paper and card
&c., though usually this is also collected with the domestic waste in
separate bins/boxes.

Ours now have machines that pay you for bottles with barcodes on them.

Corse you pay more for the bottles with stuff in them when you buy them
too.

They're thinking about doing that insanely stupid idea here. I already
recycle my bottles in one of my wheelybins, why should I go to more
trouble?

The rationale is that when each has a cash value, in our case 10c
each, you are less likely to just toss them out the car window or
leave them behind after a picnic etc and that if you do that,
some kid will likely collect them to get the cash for them.

Ours hasn't been going long enough to say yet.

And its bottles and cans.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:28:44 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:38:35 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:44:35 +0100, wrote:

On Saturday, 2 June 2018 11:41:57 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:12:06 +0100, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 1 June 2018 21:32:34 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:25:40 +0100, Brian Gaff
wrote:

Back many years ago this idea was tried by Philips, their
microwaves with
the drop down door, and with rotating aerial rather than a
turntable. to be
quite honest it was rubbish and left cold spots in the food
so
you
still had
to stop and turn the food.

I think the mistake is that the cavity is not moved in
relation
to
the food
so standing waves still exist in the same places and only
moving
the food
relative to those is a true answer to this.
End of story.
Brian

That doesn't make sense. Spinning the pattern of microwave
radiation
must be identical to spinning the food. In both cases they are
rotated in relation to one another.

not identical at all. turntables produce much better evenness
than
stirrers. Both together are best.

As I said, it's relative. The food and the microwave pattern are
relative to each other. Where the oven is and where the kitchen
is
don't matter. If you rotate the food, or rotate the microwave
pattern,
PRECISELY the same effect is achieved.

I know you think that, you already said. And as so many have
pointed
out
you're clueless.

Not one person has pointed out why one is more efficient than the
other.

I will, particularly with the microwaves with a built in meat
temperature
sensor. Clearly a lot easier to do those with the food not rotating.

And I can also see why rotating the food gets a more even
distribution
of the microwaves into the food too. Harder to explain that one tho.

I see no way it could be explained. Two objects, the food and the
microwave pattern. Rotate one, rotate the other, same effect.

But you can't rotate the microwave source like you can the food.

Rotating some metal thing at the end of the waveguide
the microwaves are coming out of is nowhere as effective
as rotating the food as far as getting an even distribution
of the microwaves in the food is concerned.

Why not?

Basically because of the frequency used, you get standing
waves in the oven and some rotating metal at the end of
the waveguide doesn't have all that much effect on those;

I see. But Panasonic seem to think it works.

Sure, but it's a lot harder to design one what works as well
as rotating the food and it's a trivial to rotate the food.

Anyone ever compared the two as in how evenly the food gets cooked?

Presumably one of the Which? type operations has.

When they metal thing had rotated 90 degrees, so has the weave pattern.

No, because you get standing waves in the
part of the microwave where the food is.

Yeah I was (incorrectly) thinking those would change shape with the source
moving, but I guess not.

Precisely the same effect as if the food had rotated 90 degrees.

No, a quite different effect as the food
moves thru the standing waves.

Please do explain and I will be happy to accept I'm wrong. I doubt
Panasonic will though.

With anything where you see both offered, there must be good reasons
for
both approaches and it can't just be habit/tradition when its been
going
on for 40 years or more now.

Price I would think.

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect half
the stuff.

Ours doesn't refused to take it, you're free to take
it to the dump yourself, and pay $25 per tailer or
ute load, $10 per car or station wagon and they
have 2 or 3 free dump weekends a year as well.

You have to pay to dump it?!

Yep. You didn't used to, but modern dumps are pretty fancy
operations and that's the story they use to justify the charge.

But you pay council tax to cover that.

No, that only covers whets picked up in the weekly wheely bin collection.

Plus they're getting the raw materials!

They don't bother to recover those, it ends as an immense
mountain in what used to be a quarry at one time.

They're conning you threefold!

They are use, we vote for ours. Mate of mine was one at
one time and he was too stupid to be able to understand
that the council charging for stuff dumped means that
quote a few choose to dump their **** on the substantial
hill at the back of town instead of at the dump and the
council keeps howling about that illegal dumping.

But that doesn't work very well for those who only have a car with the
bigger stuff like mattresses, lounges, dead fridges etc.

Find someone with a trailer, they allow those here.

They do here too, but most of those sort of
people don't know anyone with a trailer or ute.
https://www.tiptopequipment.com.au/m...arousel-09.jpg

They (for some reason) charge commercial dumpers, like gardeners,
tradesmen etc, but sensible tradesmen take the stuff in a trailer attached
to their own car then don't pay :-) Or if you go in the last half hour
before closing time, there's nobody at the entrance to charge you and you
just drive straight in.

Ours has a weighbridge you drive over used to charge
the trucks by the weight of stuff on them, and the bloke
running the weighbridge locks the gate as he leaves.

Our council is unusual in that regard tho, most councils here
do have a few days a year where they will show up with a
truck and pick up the big stuff that's left on the nature strip.

Not collecting stuff free is a silly idea

Trouble is they had to pay someone to do that.

- the poorer parts around here where people don't have cars, their TVs
just get dumped on the nearest bit of land until the council comes to
collect them.

There are very few here with no car, but the renters still dump the bigger
stuff outside the place they were renting when they move out of it dies.

Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling,

Our dump has a 40' container you put
that stuff in that is replaced when its full.

Why should I drive all the way to the skip just for a 14" TV?

Stuff that small goes in the wheely bin fine.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/handy-24...e-bin_p4520188
The top is about chest height for most people.

We get two of those supplied by the council for free,
one for normal rubbish and one for recyclable stuff.

Some councils have 3, one for garden stuff too.

It went in the normal waste wheelybin, **** them.

Its legal to do that here. Not with engine blocks tho.

so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste.
Would
have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the lorry.

Our trucks that show up every week compress the
rubbish and that would normally explode the tube.

Ours compress too, but I don't think they're strong enough to implode a
tube. The compression thing is a big thick rubber sheet, probably
designed that way so it doesn't jam on uncompressable materials.

Ours is a huge metal door that will crush anything except an engine block
etc.

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 05:57:06 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed produced
yet more rot:


Ours hasn't been going long enough to say yet.

YOU have been going for WAY too long already, senile crank!

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 06:21:51 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed produced
yet more rot:

FLUSH the two mentally deficient idiots' endless idiotic drivel

On Monday, 4 June 2018 16:02:04 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 21:49:25 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:39:16 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:31:53 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:15:55 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:44:04 +0100, Peter Johnson
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 15:14:53 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

I haven't been given information to accept or otherwise. Not one
person
has put forward any argument for your side. Not one. And as I
said,
Panasonic seem to think the flatbed system is better. Feel free
to
argue with their managing director. Good luck with that.

I've a Panasonic one for just over three years. It's quicker than
its
turntable predecessor and I've never had any problems with it not
cooking food throughout.

I've never had a problem with any microwave not cooking throughout.

Conventional ovens are uneven, they burn the outside and don't cook
the
inside sufficiently.

For some stuff like a leg of lamb, you need that effect to get
a properly done outside and pink inside that most prefer.

Same with steak, hopeless in a microwave.

Not that I eat meat,

That's why.

but I don't see why you'd want uneven cooking of anything.

A leg of lamb with a nice crisp brown fat layer on the
outside and nice pink meat on the inside is vastly superior
to the same leg of lamb the same all the way thru.

Same with a rare or medium rare steak.

True of meat pies too, you want a crisp crust with cooked
meat inside, not the soggy crust you get with a microwave.

Meat has already been eaten, I prefer original food.

Same with toast, its real toast because it isnt cooked uniformly,
its toast because its more cooked on the outside than inside.

That's about the only thing I wouldn't microwave.

I don't anything that I need a crisp crust on.

I eat a lot of what we call chicken pillows and a lot of breadcrumbed
stuff
too. Those are much better in a conventional oven. Roast potatoes in
spades.
http://lespetitesgourmettes.com/wp-c...en-pillows.jpg

I eat when I'm hungry. I want the food within minutes not an hour.

Doesn't take anything like an hour for anything except a roast leg of lamb
etc.

Potatoes take an hour.

Waiting for the food is like being in a ****ing restaurant. Why can't
restaurants get organised and have food already cooked?

They do, but we call those that do fast food places.

But I've never seen a place that serves decent meals (not just burgers) in a decent timeframe.

They must know roughly how many of each dish will be ordered, so they
could start some off.

They do with some stuff like currys etc and pies.

And cooking the fish and chips or pizzas doesn't take that long.

Kebabs are pre cooked too.

Every restaurant I've been to I've waited on average 30 minutes.

Does it really take that long to deep fry your pizza ?


--
Peter is listening to "The club can't handle me - Flo Rida feat. David Guetta"

On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 20:57:06 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 10:46:09 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 03/06/2018 00:28, Rod Speed wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do
it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect
half
the stuff.

Ours doesn't refused to take it, you're free to take
it to the dump yourself, and pay $25 per tailer or
ute load, $10 per car or station wagon and they
have 2 or 3 free dump weekends a year as well.

But that doesn't work very well for those who only have
a car with the bigger stuff like mattresses, lounges, dead
fridges etc.

Our council is unusual in that regard tho, most councils here
do have a few days a year where they will show up with a
truck and pick up the big stuff that's left on the nature strip.

Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling,

Our dump has a 40' container you put
that stuff in that is replaced when its full.

so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste.
Would have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the
lorry.

Our trucks that show up every week compress the
rubbish and that would normally explode the tube.

In the UK there are large recycling centres (sometimes combined with a
landfill site) where you can take all kinds of stuff for free - but you
have to drive there in a car - not a van (or they charge you the
commercial rate) - and you can't walk in.

There are also a few "small electricals" bins around that take items up
to
the size of a VCR.

Some councils will collect small electricals left out on the kerbside
with
the domestic waste.

Otherwise you have to pay them to collect large items.

Most large supermarket car parks have bins for bottles, paper and card
&c., though usually this is also collected with the domestic waste in
separate bins/boxes.

Ours now have machines that pay you for bottles with barcodes on them.

Corse you pay more for the bottles with stuff in them when you buy them
too.

They're thinking about doing that insanely stupid idea here. I already
recycle my bottles in one of my wheelybins, why should I go to more
trouble?

The rationale is that when each has a cash value, in our case 10c
each, you are less likely to just toss them out the car window or
leave them behind after a picnic etc and that if you do that,
some kid will likely collect them to get the cash for them.

Ours hasn't been going long enough to say yet.

And its bottles and cans.

Well I read in a newspaper article that in Australia, because of the further distances you travel, it's too much hassle even for the 10c value to get to somewhere that accepts them.

Anyway, what they're doing is punishing people like me that already recycle, instead of the folk that don't.

--
Bikini e pareo, camicia di pizzo e shorts, top e gonna di crochet!

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 20:57:06 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 10:46:09 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 03/06/2018 00:28, Rod Speed wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do
it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect
half
the stuff.

Ours doesn't refused to take it, you're free to take
it to the dump yourself, and pay $25 per tailer or
ute load, $10 per car or station wagon and they
have 2 or 3 free dump weekends a year as well.

But that doesn't work very well for those who only have
a car with the bigger stuff like mattresses, lounges, dead
fridges etc.

Our council is unusual in that regard tho, most councils here
do have a few days a year where they will show up with a
truck and pick up the big stuff that's left on the nature strip.

Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling,

Our dump has a 40' container you put
that stuff in that is replaced when its full.

so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste.
Would have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the
lorry.

Our trucks that show up every week compress the
rubbish and that would normally explode the tube.

In the UK there are large recycling centres (sometimes combined with a
landfill site) where you can take all kinds of stuff for free - but
you
have to drive there in a car - not a van (or they charge you the
commercial rate) - and you can't walk in.

There are also a few "small electricals" bins around that take items
up
to
the size of a VCR.

Some councils will collect small electricals left out on the kerbside
with
the domestic waste.

Otherwise you have to pay them to collect large items.

Most large supermarket car parks have bins for bottles, paper and card
&c., though usually this is also collected with the domestic waste in
separate bins/boxes.

Ours now have machines that pay you for bottles with barcodes on them.

Corse you pay more for the bottles with stuff in them when you buy them
too.

They're thinking about doing that insanely stupid idea here. I already
recycle my bottles in one of my wheelybins, why should I go to more
trouble?

The rationale is that when each has a cash value, in our case 10c
each, you are less likely to just toss them out the car window or
leave them behind after a picnic etc and that if you do that,
some kid will likely collect them to get the cash for them.

Ours hasn't been going long enough to say yet.

And its bottles and cans.

Well I read in a newspaper article that in Australia, because of the
further distances you travel, it's too much hassle even for the 10c value
to get to somewhere that accepts them.

The reverse vending machines that accept them are in the
carparks of the supermarkets, so no distance to travel.

Anyway, what they're doing is punishing people like me that already
recycle, instead of the folk that don't.

Yeah, me too. And I used to get used beer bottles from
my mates for my own brewing. Presumably there wont
be as much of that possible now. No big deal for me
tho because I already have a massive collection and
have moved to using what we call long necks, 750ml
glass beer bottles. Hardly anyone buys beer in those
now. Where I live is dominated by Italian immigrants
and they use them for their tomato paste and I get
them for peanuts from the garage sales now.

On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 06:54:26 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed produced
yet more rot:


Anyway, what they're doing is punishing people like me that already
recycle, instead of the folk that don't.

Yeah, me too.

Personally, I love punishing BOTH of you idiots on this group, time and
again! It's just TOO much fun to stop doing so! LMAO

--
bm about Rot Speed:
"The prick with hindsight."
MID: . com

On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 21:21:51 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:28:44 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:38:35 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:44:35 +0100, wrote:

On Saturday, 2 June 2018 11:41:57 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:12:06 +0100, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 1 June 2018 21:32:34 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:25:40 +0100, Brian Gaff
wrote:

Back many years ago this idea was tried by Philips, their
microwaves with
the drop down door, and with rotating aerial rather than a
turntable. to be
quite honest it was rubbish and left cold spots in the food
so
you
still had
to stop and turn the food.

I think the mistake is that the cavity is not moved in
relation
to
the food
so standing waves still exist in the same places and only
moving
the food
relative to those is a true answer to this.
End of story.
Brian

That doesn't make sense. Spinning the pattern of microwave
radiation
must be identical to spinning the food. In both cases they are
rotated in relation to one another.

not identical at all. turntables produce much better evenness
than
stirrers. Both together are best.

As I said, it's relative. The food and the microwave pattern are
relative to each other. Where the oven is and where the kitchen
is
don't matter. If you rotate the food, or rotate the microwave
pattern,
PRECISELY the same effect is achieved.

I know you think that, you already said. And as so many have
pointed
out
you're clueless.

Not one person has pointed out why one is more efficient than the
other.

I will, particularly with the microwaves with a built in meat
temperature
sensor. Clearly a lot easier to do those with the food not rotating.

And I can also see why rotating the food gets a more even
distribution
of the microwaves into the food too. Harder to explain that one tho.

I see no way it could be explained. Two objects, the food and the
microwave pattern. Rotate one, rotate the other, same effect.

But you can't rotate the microwave source like you can the food.

Rotating some metal thing at the end of the waveguide
the microwaves are coming out of is nowhere as effective
as rotating the food as far as getting an even distribution
of the microwaves in the food is concerned.

Why not?

Basically because of the frequency used, you get standing
waves in the oven and some rotating metal at the end of
the waveguide doesn't have all that much effect on those;

I see. But Panasonic seem to think it works.

Sure, but it's a lot harder to design one what works as well
as rotating the food and it's a trivial to rotate the food.

The point they make is you get a nice big space for non-circular dishes.

Anyone ever compared the two as in how evenly the food gets cooked?

Presumably one of the Which? type operations has.

Yes, Which? does it but you have to subscribe. You can pay £1 to get access to a single review (or everything for a week, I can't remember) then just cancel, but I can't be bothered. I did it once before to get a review on a washing machine I was buying. https://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/02...ed-microwaves/ They do tell us for free though that flatbeds start at £59 from Asda, it doesn't say if that's any good though.

http://microwavereview.co.uk has free reviews, but not of very many, I can see nothing about them being uneven, but they haven't tested cheaper ones.

When they metal thing had rotated 90 degrees, so has the weave pattern.

No, because you get standing waves in the
part of the microwave where the food is.

Yeah I was (incorrectly) thinking those would change shape with the source
moving, but I guess not.

Precisely the same effect as if the food had rotated 90 degrees.

No, a quite different effect as the food
moves thru the standing waves.

Please do explain and I will be happy to accept I'm wrong. I doubt
Panasonic will though.

With anything where you see both offered, there must be good reasons
for
both approaches and it can't just be habit/tradition when its been
going
on for 40 years or more now.

Price I would think.

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect half
the stuff.

Ours doesn't refused to take it, you're free to take
it to the dump yourself, and pay $25 per tailer or
ute load, $10 per car or station wagon and they
have 2 or 3 free dump weekends a year as well.

You have to pay to dump it?!

Yep. You didn't used to, but modern dumps are pretty fancy
operations and that's the story they use to justify the charge.

But you pay council tax to cover that.

No, that only covers whets picked up in the weekly wheely bin collection.

Plus they're getting the raw materials!

They don't bother to recover those, it ends as an immense
mountain in what used to be a quarry at one time.

If they're not using the materials, then why collect them seperately from the garbage?

There must be money in anything steel, as there's a scrap collector van round here run privately that picks up for free. You also have to try to avoid them if you're giving away a working washing machine on Gumtree or freecycle, as they spot your ad and crush them for scrap which is a bloody waste.

They're conning you threefold!

They are use, we vote for ours. Mate of mine was one at
one time and he was too stupid to be able to understand
that the council charging for stuff dumped means that
quote a few choose to dump their **** on the substantial
hill at the back of town instead of at the dump and the
council keeps howling about that illegal dumping.

So councils are stupid right round the world....

But that doesn't work very well for those who only have a car with the
bigger stuff like mattresses, lounges, dead fridges etc.

Find someone with a trailer, they allow those here.

They do here too, but most of those sort of
people don't know anyone with a trailer or ute.
https://www.tiptopequipment.com.au/m...arousel-09.jpg

****'s sake you just have to walk along a few streets and you'll see loads of trailers. People have them for holidays and all sorts.

They (for some reason) charge commercial dumpers, like gardeners,
tradesmen etc, but sensible tradesmen take the stuff in a trailer attached
to their own car then don't pay :-) Or if you go in the last half hour
before closing time, there's nobody at the entrance to charge you and you
just drive straight in.

Ours has a weighbridge you drive over used to charge
the trucks by the weight of stuff on them, and the bloke
running the weighbridge locks the gate as he leaves.

We have a weighbridge, but they don't use it for private vehicles. They just check you have a card proving you live in this area when you enter, and tell you which skip to put things in, but if they're too busy or are closing up near the end, they just leave the barrier open.

Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling,

Our dump has a 40' container you put
that stuff in that is replaced when its full.

Why should I drive all the way to the skip just for a 14" TV?

Stuff that small goes in the wheely bin fine.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/handy-24...e-bin_p4520188
The top is about chest height for most people.

We get two of those supplied by the council for free,
one for normal rubbish and one for recyclable stuff.

Some councils have 3, one for garden stuff too.

Yes I have 3. And the garbage one is where my TV went. Technically that was against the rules, but that's their fault. I did leave it with the recycling box (lightbulbs, glass, toasters, etc).

It went in the normal waste wheelybin, **** them.

Its legal to do that here. Not with engine blocks tho.

Some places won't take the bin if it's too heavy, claiming it would break the lifting mechanism, but I've had mine bloody heavy with plasterboard and rocks and it still went. I actually had to give it a hard shove with my foot to get it to tilt over to wheel it around.

so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste.
Would
have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the lorry.

Our trucks that show up every week compress the
rubbish and that would normally explode the tube.

Ours compress too, but I don't think they're strong enough to implode a
tube. The compression thing is a big thick rubber sheet, probably
designed that way so it doesn't jam on uncompressable materials.

Ours is a huge metal door that will crush anything except an engine block
etc.

You said it's legal to put a 14" CRT in your waste bin, but you also said it would explode with the crusher. Which is correct?

--
Health and Safety Officer required to start ASAP, circa £35K:
Your main duties will include:
Hampering other staff and preventing them from carrying on with their duties.
Handing out huge quantities of pointless paperwork consuming approx 1 rainforest per year.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 21:21:51 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:28:44 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:16:14 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:38:35 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:44:35 +0100, wrote:

On Saturday, 2 June 2018 11:41:57 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:12:06 +0100, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 1 June 2018 21:32:34 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:25:40 +0100, Brian Gaff
wrote:

Back many years ago this idea was tried by Philips, their
microwaves with
the drop down door, and with rotating aerial rather than a
turntable. to be
quite honest it was rubbish and left cold spots in the food
so
you
still had
to stop and turn the food.

I think the mistake is that the cavity is not moved in
relation
to
the food
so standing waves still exist in the same places and only
moving
the food
relative to those is a true answer to this.
End of story.
Brian

That doesn't make sense. Spinning the pattern of microwave
radiation
must be identical to spinning the food. In both cases they
are
rotated in relation to one another.

not identical at all. turntables produce much better evenness
than
stirrers. Both together are best.

As I said, it's relative. The food and the microwave pattern
are
relative to each other. Where the oven is and where the kitchen
is
don't matter. If you rotate the food, or rotate the microwave
pattern,
PRECISELY the same effect is achieved.

I know you think that, you already said. And as so many have
pointed
out
you're clueless.

Not one person has pointed out why one is more efficient than the
other.

I will, particularly with the microwaves with a built in meat
temperature
sensor. Clearly a lot easier to do those with the food not
rotating.

And I can also see why rotating the food gets a more even
distribution
of the microwaves into the food too. Harder to explain that one
tho.

I see no way it could be explained. Two objects, the food and the
microwave pattern. Rotate one, rotate the other, same effect.

But you can't rotate the microwave source like you can the food.

Rotating some metal thing at the end of the waveguide
the microwaves are coming out of is nowhere as effective
as rotating the food as far as getting an even distribution
of the microwaves in the food is concerned.

Why not?

Basically because of the frequency used, you get standing
waves in the oven and some rotating metal at the end of
the waveguide doesn't have all that much effect on those;

I see. But Panasonic seem to think it works.

Sure, but it's a lot harder to design one what works as well
as rotating the food and it's a trivial to rotate the food.

The point they make is you get a nice big space for non-circular dishes.

Anyone ever compared the two as in how evenly the food gets cooked?

Presumably one of the Which? type operations has.

Yes, Which? does it but you have to subscribe. You can pay £1 to get
access to a single review (or everything for a week, I can't remember)
then just cancel, but I can't be bothered. I did it once before to get a
review on a washing machine I was buying.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/02...ed-microwaves/
They do tell us for free though that flatbeds start at £59 from Asda, it
doesn't say if that's any good though.

http://microwavereview.co.uk has free reviews, but not of very many, I can
see nothing about them being uneven, but they haven't tested cheaper ones.

When they metal thing had rotated 90 degrees, so has the weave
pattern.

No, because you get standing waves in the
part of the microwave where the food is.

Yeah I was (incorrectly) thinking those would change shape with the
source
moving, but I guess not.

Precisely the same effect as if the food had rotated 90 degrees.

No, a quite different effect as the food
moves thru the standing waves.

Please do explain and I will be happy to accept I'm wrong. I
doubt
Panasonic will though.

With anything where you see both offered, there must be good
reasons
for
both approaches and it can't just be habit/tradition when its been
going
on for 40 years or more now.

Price I would think.

Maybe. I've never had a good look at how the flatbed microwaves do
it.

Most likely just put their dead ones in their wheely bin
and we don't allow people to put them on the footpath
for the council bulk collection in my council anymore, so
I have never had the chance to have a look at a dead one.

Makes you wonder why we pay council tax when they refuse to collect
half
the stuff.

Ours doesn't refused to take it, you're free to take
it to the dump yourself, and pay $25 per tailer or
ute load, $10 per car or station wagon and they
have 2 or 3 free dump weekends a year as well.

You have to pay to dump it?!

Yep. You didn't used to, but modern dumps are pretty fancy
operations and that's the story they use to justify the charge.

But you pay council tax to cover that.

No, that only covers whets picked up in the weekly wheely bin collection.

Plus they're getting the raw materials!

They don't bother to recover those, it ends as an immense
mountain in what used to be a quarry at one time.

If they're not using the materials, then why collect them seperately from
the garbage?

They do in theory use the stuff in the recycling wheely bins.

In theory because china has now refused to take that
stuff and its far from clear what we will do about that
now. Its never going to be feasible to pay people first
world wages to do the separation of the various stuff.

There must be money in anything steel, as there's a scrap collector van
round here run privately that picks up for free.

Yeah, we have one that is happy to accept that stuff, but he doesn't
collect it, you have to take it to his place and its well out of town.

We have another that is happy to collect dead cars for free.

You also have to try to avoid them if you're giving away a working washing
machine on Gumtree or freecycle, as they spot your ad and crush them for
scrap which is a bloody waste.

No one does that here.

They're conning you threefold!

They are use, we vote for ours. Mate of mine was one at
one time and he was too stupid to be able to understand
that the council charging for stuff dumped means that
quote a few choose to dump their **** on the substantial
hill at the back of town instead of at the dump and the
council keeps howling about that illegal dumping.

So councils are stupid right round the world....

Yep. Right around the modern first and second world, anyway.

Its different in the third world where you get plenty who
comb the dumps for almost anything and live at the dump.

We arent even allowed to scavenge the dump anymore.
Used to be able to and when I was building the house
I would often bring more stuff home than I took there.

But that doesn't work very well for those who only have a car with the
bigger stuff like mattresses, lounges, dead fridges etc.

Find someone with a trailer, they allow those here.

They do here too, but most of those sort of
people don't know anyone with a trailer or ute.
https://www.tiptopequipment.com.au/m...arousel-09.jpg

****'s sake you just have to walk along a few streets and you'll see loads
of trailers.

Sure, but few of those have any interest in carting stuff for others.

People have them for holidays and all sorts.

Camping trailers are no use for moving dead fridges etc.

They (for some reason) charge commercial dumpers, like gardeners,
tradesmen etc, but sensible tradesmen take the stuff in a trailer
attached to their own car then don't pay :-) Or if you go in the last
half hour before closing time, there's nobody at the entrance to charge
you and you just drive straight in.

Ours has a weighbridge you drive over used to charge
the trucks by the weight of stuff on them, and the bloke
running the weighbridge locks the gate as he leaves.

We have a weighbridge, but they don't use it for private vehicles.

We just have the one fella who you pay so its easier to have everyone
pull up on the weighbridge and just hand him the fixed charge thru
the window with cars and trailers that don't get charged by weight.

They just check you have a card proving you live in this area when you
enter,

We don't need to because there are only two dumps
for the main town and the surrounding villages and
you are free to use whichever dump you like.

and tell you which skip to put things in,

Yeah, ours do that too.

but if they're too busy or are closing up near the end, they just leave
the barrier open.

Ours doesn't. Its got lights on the runup to
the weighbridge and when they shut down
they just turn that off and lock the gate as
they drive out the gate.

Mine refused to collect an old portable TV for recycling,

Our dump has a 40' container you put
that stuff in that is replaced when its full.

Why should I drive all the way to the skip just for a 14" TV?

Stuff that small goes in the wheely bin fine.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/handy-24...e-bin_p4520188
The top is about chest height for most people.

We get two of those supplied by the council for free,
one for normal rubbish and one for recyclable stuff.

Some councils have 3, one for garden stuff too.

Yes I have 3. And the garbage one is where my TV went. Technically that
was against the rules, but that's their fault. I did leave it with the
recycling box (lightbulbs, glass, toasters, etc).

It went in the normal waste wheelybin, **** them.

Its legal to do that here. Not with engine blocks tho.

Some places won't take the bin if it's too heavy, claiming it would break
the lifting mechanism,

Yeah, ours does too, but they just put a sticker on
the bin in that case. I have to be careful with a bin
full of old newspapers, that I don't fill it.

but I've had mine bloody heavy with plasterboard and rocks and it still
went. I actually had to give it a hard shove with my foot to get it to
tilt over to wheel it around.

I've only had the sticker once, but that's
because I was more careful after that.

I got rid of the VW engine and transaxle that I scavenged from
the dump when building the house with the street pickup of
big stuff before they stopped doing that. I had plans to make
dune buggy out of it but never got around to doing that.

so I put it in the landfill bin and hid it under some normal waste.
Would
have been funny if the tube blew when it was tipped into the lorry.

Our trucks that show up every week compress the
rubbish and that would normally explode the tube.

Ours compress too, but I don't think they're strong enough to implode a
tube. The compression thing is a big thick rubber sheet, probably
designed that way so it doesn't jam on uncompressable materials.

Ours is a huge metal door that will crush anything except an engine block
etc.

You said it's legal to put a 14" CRT in your waste bin, but you also said
it would explode with the crusher. Which is correct?

Both. It would explode inside the body of the rubbish truck, no big deal.

On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 09:47:04 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed produced
yet more rot:

FLUSH the senile geezer's endless rot

One gets the impression that you are an even bigger driveling asshole than
the troll you keep sucking off, Rot!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: