On 13/05/2018 08:59, Jim K wrote:
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

TIA


Fit a check meter. Less than £20 for a dial one.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...#Credit_Meters

--
Adam

Jim K laid this down on his screen :
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

Rough check - turn everything off, except for one 1Kw heater. Run it
for 60 minutes and the meter should clock up exactly 1Kilowatt hour.

Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

TIA
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

ARW Wrote in message:
On 13/05/2018 08:59, Jim K wrote:
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

TIA


Fit a check meter. Less than £20 for a dial one.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...#Credit_Meters

Mmm what's the installation procedure though?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
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On 13/05/2018 09:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jim K laid this down on his screen :
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
*leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

Rough check - turn everything off, except for one 1Kw heater. Run it for
60 minutes and the meter should clock up exactly 1Kilowatt hour.

I think that would be better with "roughly" in place of "exactly" given
there's not just the vagaries of the manufacturer's rating but also the
variation in supply voltages. I reckon the 2 combined could easily be
plus or minus 20 percent - roughly

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 13/05/2018 09:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jim K laid this down on his screen :
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
*leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

Rough check - turn everything off, except for one 1Kw heater. Run it for
60 minutes and the meter should clock up exactly 1Kilowatt hour.

I think that would be better with "roughly" in place of "exactly" given
there's not just the vagaries of the manufacturer's rating but also the
variation in supply voltages. I reckon the 2 combined could easily be
plus or minus 20 percent - roughly

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 13/05/2018 09:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jim K laid this down on his screen :
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
*leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

Rough check - turn everything off, except for one 1Kw heater. Run it for
60 minutes and the meter should clock up exactly 1Kilowatt hour.


Yes, although I think that would be better with "roughly" in place of
"exactly" given there's not just the vagaries of the manufacturer's
rating but also the variation in supply voltages. I reckon the 2
combined could easily be plus or minus 20 percent - roughly

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 13/05/2018 09:43, Robin wrote:


Apologies for multiple posts: I had problems with Eternal September.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Robin wrote:
On 13/05/2018 09:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jim K laid this down on his screen :
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
Â*leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

Rough check - turn everything off, except for one 1Kw heater. Run it for
60 minutes and the meter should clock up exactly 1Kilowatt hour.

I think that would be better with "roughly" in place of "exactly" given
there's not just the vagaries of the manufacturer's rating but also the
variation in supply voltages. I reckon the 2 combined could easily be
plus or minus 20 percent - roughly

How many people have houses where doing this is remotely practical?

Firstly you don't want to have virtually nothing in the house working
for an hour (heating, cooking, radio/TV, internet, whatever) and
secondly there are almost certainly things that you can't easily turn
off while leaving a circuit live for the 1kW fire.

Yes, it *could* be done but it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

--
Chris Green
·

Chris Green pretended :
How many people have houses where doing this is remotely practical?

Firstly you don't want to have virtually nothing in the house working
for an hour (heating, cooking, radio/TV, internet, whatever) and
secondly there are almost certainly things that you can't easily turn
off while leaving a circuit live for the 1kW fire.

Yes, it *could* be done but it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Well, I have all of those things and much more, but switching them all
off for an hour would certainly not be an issue.

Your solution to the OP's problem is...?

Jim K was thinking very hard :
Well yes there is that, I was thinking of a decent clip-on device
to check my consumption & electricity bills...

You can get clip on ammeters, but they may not be that accurate and
with lots of things still drawing current, such as fridges cutting on
and off, the current demand will be very variable. An ammeter will also
take no account of voltage, but then nor would my method of a rough
check via a 1Kw load.

Chris Green Wrote in message:
Robin wrote:
On 13/05/2018 09:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jim K laid this down on his screen :
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

Rough check - turn everything off, except for one 1Kw heater. Run it for
60 minutes and the meter should clock up exactly 1Kilowatt hour.

I think that would be better with "roughly" in place of "exactly" given
there's not just the vagaries of the manufacturer's rating but also the
variation in supply voltages. I reckon the 2 combined could easily be
plus or minus 20 percent - roughly

How many people have houses where doing this is remotely practical?

Firstly you don't want to have virtually nothing in the house working
for an hour (heating, cooking, radio/TV, internet, whatever) and
secondly there are almost certainly things that you can't easily turn
off while leaving a circuit live for the 1kW fire.

Yes, it *could* be done but it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.


Well yes there is that, I was thinking of a decent clip-on device
to check my consumption & electricity bills...


--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 13/05/2018 10:21, Chris Green wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 13/05/2018 09:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jim K laid this down on his screen :
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
Â*leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

Rough check - turn everything off, except for one 1Kw heater. Run it for
60 minutes and the meter should clock up exactly 1Kilowatt hour.

I think that would be better with "roughly" in place of "exactly" given
there's not just the vagaries of the manufacturer's rating but also the
variation in supply voltages. I reckon the 2 combined could easily be
plus or minus 20 percent - roughly

How many people have houses where doing this is remotely practical?

Firstly you don't want to have virtually nothing in the house working
for an hour (heating, cooking, radio/TV, internet, whatever) and
secondly there are almost certainly things that you can't easily turn
off while leaving a circuit live for the 1kW fire.

Yes, it *could* be done but it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.


But quite easy, surely ?.

Go round the house and unplug everything, maybe except broadband,
and switch on something like a 1kw fan heater or if you have them
a collection of 60w or 100w bulbs for exactly one hour.

My digital meter has a flashing red led that says 1000 impulses
per Kw/hour. So there's an opportunity for a raspberry-pi or
similar device to count those impulses. Or sit in front and manually
count them with a mechanical clicker :-)

On 13/05/18 11:16, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jim K was thinking very hard :
Well yes there is that, I was thinking of a decent clip-on device
to check my consumption & electricity bills...

You can get clip on ammeters, but they may not be that accurate and
with lots of things still drawing current, such as fridges cutting on
and off, the current demand will be very variable. An ammeter will also
take no account of voltage, but then nor would my method of a rough
check via a 1Kw load.

For a £36 cheapie on eBay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Voltcraft-VC-520-Clip-on-Ammeter-AC-/122327443586),
this is the quote from the technical data:

"Measurement tolerances
Statement of accuracy in ± (% of reading + display error in counts (=
number of
smallest points)). The accuracy is valid for one year at a temperature
of +23°C ±
5°C, and at a relative humidity of less than 75 %, non-condensing."

For an AC measurement on the 40A range, it is stated to be ±(3% + 12).
I can't quite get my head round that, but I would guess that at the
lower end of the scale, it becomes pretty inaccurate.

Or, for £27 and a basic accuracy of 2.5%, you can get a clip-on adapter
giving an output of of 10mV/A, which can plug into your digital multimeter:
https://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/product/122376/VC-510VOLTCRAFTClip-on-ammeter-adapter-0-400-AAC-30-mm?queryFromSuggest=true

--

Jeff

Andrew brought next idea :
My digital meter has a flashing red led that says 1000 impulses
per Kw/hour. So there's an opportunity for a raspberry-pi or
similar device to count those impulses. Or sit in front and manually
count them with a mechanical clicker :-)

In my case, no need - I can get mine to show Kwh down to 0.001 or 1
watthour :-)

The only certain way to check it, is via a known precise load at a
known precise voltage. Or with another meter in series with it. Even
the meters have a range acceptable accuracy, which varies with the type
of load.

Robin wrote
Robin wrote

Apologies for multiple posts: I had problems with Eternal September.

A Jap would at least have the decency to disembowel itself.

Don't make a mess of the carpet.

"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
Robin wrote:
On 13/05/2018 09:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jim K laid this down on his screen :
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

Rough check - turn everything off, except for one 1Kw heater. Run it
for
60 minutes and the meter should clock up exactly 1Kilowatt hour.

I think that would be better with "roughly" in place of "exactly" given
there's not just the vagaries of the manufacturer's rating but also the
variation in supply voltages. I reckon the 2 combined could easily be
plus or minus 20 percent - roughly

How many people have houses where doing this is remotely practical?

Almost everyone except for the voltage and load problem.

Firstly you don't want to have virtually nothing in the house working
for an hour (heating, cooking, radio/TV, internet, whatever)

Even sillier than you usually manage, and thats saying something.

and secondly there are almost certainly things that you can't
easily turn off while leaving a circuit live for the 1kW fire.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and thats saying something.

Yes, it *could* be done but it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and thats saying something.

On 13/05/2018 09:32, Jim K wrote:
ARW Wrote in message:
On 13/05/2018 08:59, Jim K wrote:
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

TIA


Fit a check meter. Less than £20 for a dial one.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...#Credit_Meters

Mmm what's the installation procedure though?


Remove main incoming fuse (possibly illegal but so what), fit mew meter
between existing meter and CU, refit fuse.

You will need some meter tails.

Of if you have an isolation switch you can do this without touching the
main fuse.

--
Adam

On Sunday, 13 May 2018 09:11:38 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Rough check - turn everything off, except for one 1Kw heater. Run it
for 60 minutes and the meter should clock up exactly 1Kilowatt hour.

Or a 3 kW immersion heater for 20 mins, a 10 kW shower for 6 minutes, etc.

Owain

used his keyboard to write :
Or a 3 kW immersion heater for 20 mins, a 10 kW shower for 6 minutes, etc.

Yep! Any known fixed value of larger load, except a shower. Modern
showers modulate their current demand to suit the dialed in temperature
setting, so the current demand will likely vary considerably from the
rated maximum.

On Sunday, 13 May 2018 08:59:45 UTC+1, JimK wrote:
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

TIA
--
Jim K



Plug in say a !Kw electric fire.
In an hour,the meter should have run up 1 Kwh
Make sure nothing else is turned on, eg refrigerators.

On Sunday, 13 May 2018 11:12:56 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Chris Green pretended :
How many people have houses where doing this is remotely practical?

Firstly you don't want to have virtually nothing in the house working
for an hour (heating, cooking, radio/TV, internet, whatever) and
secondly there are almost certainly things that you can't easily turn
off while leaving a circuit live for the 1kW fire.

Yes, it *could* be done but it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Well, I have all of those things and much more, but switching them all
off for an hour would certainly not be an issue.

Your solution to the OP's problem is...?

They can be turned off at the consumer unit just leaving the circuit with the test load on.

On 13/05/2018 14:33, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 13 May 2018 08:59:45 UTC+1, JimK wrote:
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

TIA
--
Jim K



Plug in say a !Kw electric fire.
In an hour,the meter should have run up 1 Kwh
Make sure nothing else is turned on, eg refrigerators.


In this weather? And a 1kW fire will use more electricity in an hour at
my house than at most peoples houses.

--
Adam

On Sun, 13 May 2018 09:41:31 +0100
Robin wrote:

I think that would be better with "roughly" in place of "exactly"
given there's not just the vagaries of the manufacturer's rating but
also the variation in supply voltages. I reckon the 2 combined could
easily be plus or minus 20 percent - roughly

So run the test load through a power meter?

On 13/05/2018 11:37, Jeff Layman wrote:

Statement of accuracy in ± (% of reading + display error in counts (=
number of
smallest points)). The accuracy is valid for one year at a temperature
of +23°C ±
5°C, and at a relative humidity of less than 75 %, non-condensing."

For an AC measurement on the 40A range, it is stated to beÂ* ±(3% + 12).
I can't quite get my head round that, but I would guess that at the
lower end of the scale, it becomes pretty inaccurate.

This kind of specification is common with digital measuring equipment.
With analogue equipment the same is true but the wording in the
specification will be +/-(x% of reading +y% of full scale). High end
equipment will be specified in this way where a cheap Chinese item may
just document the best accuracy achievable when reading a full scale
value and fail to mention that the reading may be more inaccurate if the
input is less than full scale.

I assume that on the 40A range the meter reads from 00.00A to 39.99A
so at 04.00A the accuracy is +/- 00.24A or +/- 6%.
At 39.99A the accuracy is +/- 3.3%,

The accuracy may only be achievable with a pure sine wave input.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 13/05/2018 11:33, Andrew wrote:

Go round the house and unplug everything, maybe except broadband,
and switch on something like a 1kw fan heater or if you have them
a collection of 60w or 100w bulbs for exactly one hour.

Is that heater and collection of bulbs exactly a 1KW load or do they
have a tolerance inaccuracy _much_ greater than that of the meter
measurement.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 13/05/2018 14:33, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 13 May 2018 08:59:45 UTC+1, JimK wrote:
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

TIA
--
Jim K



Plug in say a !Kw electric fire.
In an hour,the meter should have run up 1 Kwh
Make sure nothing else is turned on, eg refrigerators.

As mentioned elsewhere, not very accurate as the mains voltage moves
around all over the place. Our local voltage typically moves around
randomly between 225V and 245V quite rapidly.
The other point to consider is the power factor of the load.
Justy measuring the current and multiplying by 240V (or 230V or
whatever) will only give you a trur power reading for a pure resistive load.
Your electricity meter (fortunatly) measures V*I*cos(phi) - the phase
angle between the current and voltage.
You *could* stuff a capacitor across the mains, measure the current
(lets say make it a juicy 50A), but your meter will register **** all.
Excellent way of diddling the leccy company - except none of that power
is any use to you.

On 14/05/2018 03:36, Rob Morley wrote:
On Sun, 13 May 2018 09:41:31 +0100
Robin wrote:

I think that would be better with "roughly" in place of "exactly"
given there's not just the vagaries of the manufacturer's rating but
also the variation in supply voltages. I reckon the 2 combined could
easily be plus or minus 20 percent - roughly

So run the test load through a power meter?

Yes, and as Adam said you can get an analogue one of those for less than
£20

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...#Credit_Meters

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Andy Bennet wrote:

On 13/05/2018 14:33, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 13 May 2018 08:59:45 UTC+1, JimK wrote:
Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

TIA
--
Jim K



Plug in say a !Kw electric fire.
In an hour,the meter should have run up 1 Kwh
Make sure nothing else is turned on, eg refrigerators.

As mentioned elsewhere, not very accurate as the mains voltage moves
around all over the place. Our local voltage typically moves around
randomly between 225V and 245V quite rapidly.
The other point to consider is the power factor of the load.
Justy measuring the current and multiplying by 240V (or 230V or
whatever) will only give you a trur power reading for a pure resistive load.
Your electricity meter (fortunatly) measures V*I*cos(phi) - the phase
angle between the current and voltage.
You *could* stuff a capacitor across the mains, measure the current
(lets say make it a juicy 50A), but your meter will register **** all.
Excellent way of diddling the leccy company - except none of that power
is any use to you.

Because, of course, it is not power!

--

Roger Hayter

Jim K used his keyboard to write :
Well yes there is that, I was thinking of a decent clip-on device
to check my consumption & electricity bills...

You can pick up the clip on electric consumption recorders now, fairly
cheap in the charity shops. The clip on to the meter tail part, with a
wireless link to an indoor display. The predecessor to the smart meter
displays. How accurate they might be, I don't know, but they will
probably suffer the same issues as a basic clip on meter - that of only
measuring the current, with no voltage input.

What the OP has not yet explained is - why they might want to check
their meter.

Harry Bloomfield Wrote in message:
Jim K used his keyboard to write :
Well yes there is that, I was thinking of a decent clip-on device
to check my consumption & electricity bills...

You can pick up the clip on electric consumption recorders now, fairly
cheap in the charity shops. The clip on to the meter tail part, with a
wireless link to an indoor display. The predecessor to the smart meter
displays. How accurate they might be, I don't know, but they will
probably suffer the same issues as a basic clip on meter - that of only
measuring the current, with no voltage input.

What the OP has not yet explained is - why they might want to check
their meter.


Its in the bit you replied to ?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Jim K explained :
Harry Bloomfield Wrote in message:
Jim K used his keyboard to write :
Well yes there is that, I was thinking of a decent clip-on device
to check my consumption & electricity bills...

You can pick up the clip on electric consumption recorders now, fairly
cheap in the charity shops. The clip on to the meter tail part, with a
wireless link to an indoor display. The predecessor to the smart meter
displays. How accurate they might be, I don't know, but they will
probably suffer the same issues as a basic clip on meter - that of only
measuring the current, with no voltage input.

What the OP has not yet explained is - why they might want to check
their meter.


Its in the bit you replied to ?

Not that I saw! He says something about checking his bills, but is he
suggesting the meter might not be accurate, charging him wrongly?

Harry Bloomfield Wrote in message:
Jim K explained :
Harry Bloomfield Wrote in message:
Jim K used his keyboard to write :
Well yes there is that, I was thinking of a decent clip-on device
to check my consumption & electricity bills...

You can pick up the clip on electric consumption recorders now, fairly
cheap in the charity shops. The clip on to the meter tail part, with a
wireless link to an indoor display. The predecessor to the smart meter
displays. How accurate they might be, I don't know, but they will
probably suffer the same issues as a basic clip on meter - that of only
measuring the current, with no voltage input.

What the OP has not yet explained is - why they might want to check
their meter.


Its in the bit you replied to ?

Not that I saw! He says something about checking his bills, but is he
suggesting the meter might not be accurate, charging him wrongly?


The line before your bit starts?!? :-)

Yes I am interested in the supplier's meter's accuracy...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Mon, 14 May 2018 10:11:05 +0100
Robin wrote:

On 14/05/2018 03:36, Rob Morley wrote:
On Sun, 13 May 2018 09:41:31 +0100
Robin wrote:

[...]

So run the test load through a power meter?

Yes, and as Adam said you can get an analogue one of those for less
than £20

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...#Credit_Meters

No, one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142794183077

On Sun, 13 May 2018 08:59:42 +0100, Jim K wrote:

Can anyone point me to the simplest way(s) to check my digital
leccy meter plse?

Something non invasive would be preferable.

Call your supplier's customer support service and request a meter
calibration check?

--
Johnny B Good