French, a bit iconic, wood handled folding knives in many sizes. I have
an idea that folding knives with locking handles are illegal, or not
saleable or something in the UK. Is that so?

TW

On Sun, 06 May 2018 19:15:06 +0200, TimW wrote:

French, a bit iconic, wood handled folding knives in many sizes. I have
an idea that folding knives with locking handles are illegal, or not
saleable or something in the UK. Is that so?

I'd be very, very surprised if that were so. I think you're getting
confused with flick knives/switchblade knives.



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This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

Cursitor Doom wrote:

TimW wrote:

I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are
illegal
I'd be very, very surprised if that were so.

Prepare to be surprised ...

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

On 06/05/2018 19:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

TimW wrote:

I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are
illegal
I'd be very, very surprised if that were so.

Prepare to be surprised ...

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Yes, apparently, according to minutes from the meetings that took place
to prepare this legislation, it was made clear that the intention was to
not make locking knives illegal, as it was considered a safety feature
to prevent work knives suddenly folding in use. Somehow that was omitted
and they have never gone back to change the law.

SteveW

On 06/05/2018 19:55, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/05/2018 19:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

TimW wrote:

I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are
illegal
I'd be very, very surprised if that were so.

Prepare to be surprised ...

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Yes, apparently, according to minutes from the meetings that took place
to prepare this legislation, it was made clear that the intention was to
not make locking knives illegal, as it was considered a safety feature
to prevent work knives suddenly folding in use. Somehow that was omitted
and they have never gone back to change the law.

SteveW

Quite apart from my much loved ancient Opinel, I still have a couple of
"farmers' knives" from Countrywide which are now illegal, not to mention
my really useful Leatherman Crunch (AKA folding "mole wrench") and
another standard Leatherman with screwdriver bits which lives in the
Honda (on the so far entirely justified assumption that this needs no
other tools, apart from wheel brace and jack).

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Sun, 06 May 2018 20:00:58 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 06/05/2018 19:55, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/05/2018 19:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

TimW wrote:

I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are
illegal
I'd be very, very surprised if that were so.

Prepare to be surprised ...

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Yes, apparently, according to minutes from the meetings that took place
to prepare this legislation, it was made clear that the intention was to
not make locking knives illegal, as it was considered a safety feature
to prevent work knives suddenly folding in use. Somehow that was omitted
and they have never gone back to change the law.

SteveW

Quite apart from my much loved ancient Opinel, I still have a couple of
"farmers' knives" from Countrywide which are now illegal, not to mention
my really useful Leatherman Crunch (AKA folding "mole wrench") and
another standard Leatherman with screwdriver bits which lives in the
Honda (on the so far entirely justified assumption that this needs no
other tools, apart from wheel brace and jack).

One can only assume the police are sensible enough to use discretion when applying ****ed up laws. And that judges would throw out any case involving such nonsense.

--
Little Tony was staying with his grandmother for a few days.. He'd been playing outside with the other kids for a while when he came into the house and asked her, "Grandma, what's that called when 2 people sleep in the same room and one is on top of the other?"

She was a little taken, but she decided to just tell him the truth. "It's called sexual intercourse, darling".

Little Tony just said, "Oh, OK," and went back outside to play with the other kids.

A few minutes later he came back in and said angrily, "Grandma, it isn't called sexual intercourse. It's called "Bunk Beds". And Jimmy's mum wants to talk to you."

On Sunday, 6 May 2018 20:05:34 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2018 20:00:58 +0100, newshound wrote:
On 06/05/2018 19:55, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/05/2018 19:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:
TimW wrote:

I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are
illegal
I'd be very, very surprised if that were so.

Prepare to be surprised ...

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Yes, apparently, according to minutes from the meetings that took place
to prepare this legislation, it was made clear that the intention was to
not make locking knives illegal, as it was considered a safety feature
to prevent work knives suddenly folding in use. Somehow that was omitted
and they have never gone back to change the law.

SteveW

Quite apart from my much loved ancient Opinel, I still have a couple of
"farmers' knives" from Countrywide which are now illegal, not to mention
my really useful Leatherman Crunch (AKA folding "mole wrench") and
another standard Leatherman with screwdriver bits which lives in the
Honda (on the so far entirely justified assumption that this needs no
other tools, apart from wheel brace and jack).

One can only assume the police are sensible enough to use discretion when applying ****ed up laws. And that judges would throw out any case involving such nonsense.

I see you've not been in such a situation.


NT

On Sun, 06 May 2018 20:44:48 +0100, wrote:

On Sunday, 6 May 2018 20:05:34 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2018 20:00:58 +0100, newshound wrote:
On 06/05/2018 19:55, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/05/2018 19:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:
TimW wrote:

I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are
illegal
I'd be very, very surprised if that were so.

Prepare to be surprised ...

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Yes, apparently, according to minutes from the meetings that took place
to prepare this legislation, it was made clear that the intention was to
not make locking knives illegal, as it was considered a safety feature
to prevent work knives suddenly folding in use. Somehow that was omitted
and they have never gone back to change the law.

SteveW

Quite apart from my much loved ancient Opinel, I still have a couple of
"farmers' knives" from Countrywide which are now illegal, not to mention
my really useful Leatherman Crunch (AKA folding "mole wrench") and
another standard Leatherman with screwdriver bits which lives in the
Honda (on the so far entirely justified assumption that this needs no
other tools, apart from wheel brace and jack).

One can only assume the police are sensible enough to use discretion when applying ****ed up laws. And that judges would throw out any case involving such nonsense.

I see you've not been in such a situation.

I don't tend to walk around in public brandishing knives. Clearly if I've just bought it and it's in a bag of Asda shopping, I'm not going to get done. Clearly if I'm a tradesman using the knife, I'm not going to get done. So, what situation would you have a knife in public?

--
A female kangaroo has three vaginas, and a male kangaroo has two penises.

On 06/05/18 20:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

TimW wrote:

I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are
illegal
I'd be very, very surprised if that were so.

Prepare to be surprised ...

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Thanks Andy,
So it's just plain illegal to carry one in the uk for no better reason
than 'it might come in handy'. Not actually illegal to have one but
certainly illegal to buy one in France and bring it home.

That's all I needed to know.
TW

On 06/05/18 20:55, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/05/2018 19:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

TimW wrote:

I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are
illegal
I'd be very, very surprised if that were so.

Prepare to be surprised ...

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Yes, apparently, according to minutes from the meetings that took place
to prepare this legislation, it was made clear that the intention was to
not make locking knives illegal, as it was considered a safety feature
to prevent work knives suddenly folding in use. Somehow that was omitted
and they have never gone back to change the law.

SteveW

I had a nice little stainless lock knife with a blade of about 2" long.
Didn't even know I was breaking the law. Bought it at an agricultural show.
TW

On Sun, 6 May 2018 12:44:48 -0700 (PDT), , another
mentally challenged, troll-feeding idiot, driveled again:



I see you've not been in such a situation.

NT

He has been in mental asylums! Can't you see that, you blithering idiot?
tsk

On 06/05/2018 20:44, wrote:
On Sunday, 6 May 2018 20:05:34 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2018 20:00:58 +0100, newshound wrote:
On 06/05/2018 19:55, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/05/2018 19:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:
TimW wrote:

I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are
illegal
I'd be very, very surprised if that were so.

Prepare to be surprised ...

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Yes, apparently, according to minutes from the meetings that took place
to prepare this legislation, it was made clear that the intention was to
not make locking knives illegal, as it was considered a safety feature
to prevent work knives suddenly folding in use. Somehow that was omitted
and they have never gone back to change the law.

SteveW

Quite apart from my much loved ancient Opinel, I still have a couple of
"farmers' knives" from Countrywide which are now illegal, not to mention
my really useful Leatherman Crunch (AKA folding "mole wrench") and
another standard Leatherman with screwdriver bits which lives in the
Honda (on the so far entirely justified assumption that this needs no
other tools, apart from wheel brace and jack).

One can only assume the police are sensible enough to use discretion when applying ****ed up laws. And that judges would throw out any case involving such nonsense.

I see you've not been in such a situation.

I've certainly read of a case where a man who used a locking multi-tool
as part of his business was taken to court for possessing it (police
just happened to spot it). He presented the record of the minutes from
the implementation of this law as part of his defence. The judge, agreed
that it was harsh, but that the law was clear and found him guilty.
Because the man worked in an industry with enchanced checks, he lost the
business he ran and his entire livelihood.

SteveW

On Sun, 06 May 2018 22:12:01 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

On 06/05/2018 20:44, wrote:
On Sunday, 6 May 2018 20:05:34 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2018 20:00:58 +0100, newshound wrote:
On 06/05/2018 19:55, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/05/2018 19:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:
TimW wrote:

I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are
illegal
I'd be very, very surprised if that were so.

Prepare to be surprised ...

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Yes, apparently, according to minutes from the meetings that took place
to prepare this legislation, it was made clear that the intention was to
not make locking knives illegal, as it was considered a safety feature
to prevent work knives suddenly folding in use. Somehow that was omitted
and they have never gone back to change the law.

SteveW

Quite apart from my much loved ancient Opinel, I still have a couple of
"farmers' knives" from Countrywide which are now illegal, not to mention
my really useful Leatherman Crunch (AKA folding "mole wrench") and
another standard Leatherman with screwdriver bits which lives in the
Honda (on the so far entirely justified assumption that this needs no
other tools, apart from wheel brace and jack).

One can only assume the police are sensible enough to use discretion when applying ****ed up laws. And that judges would throw out any case involving such nonsense.

I see you've not been in such a situation.

I've certainly read of a case where a man who used a locking multi-tool
as part of his business was taken to court for possessing it (police
just happened to spot it). He presented the record of the minutes from
the implementation of this law as part of his defence. The judge, agreed
that it was harsh, but that the law was clear and found him guilty.
Because the man worked in an industry with enchanced checks, he lost the
business he ran and his entire livelihood.

That judge has no business being in his profession.

--
Isn't Disney World a people trap operated by a mouse?

On Sun, 06 May 2018 22:07:37 +0200, TimW wrote:

So it's just plain illegal to carry one in the uk for no better reason
than 'it might come in handy'.

One of my closest friends who was a night manager at the airport hotel he
worked at always kept a small locking knife in his pocket to clean his
pipe out and cut the binding twine on the morning papers. One particular
morning just before clocking off, he got a call from one of the maids in
a right old state. The guest who'd been staying in that room had tried to
(unsuccessfully) hang herself. A neck tie she'd used was so tight she was
turning from blue to purple. My mate was *just* in time to save her life
using that knife he always carried. And yet this daft law would have
penalised him since he probably had no solid legal grounds for carrying
it.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On Sun, 6 May 2018 19:25:32 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Cursitor Doom wrote:

TimW wrote:

I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are
illegal
I'd be very, very surprised if that were so.

Prepare to be surprised ...

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or
multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade ('in public', because we
are often in situations when not in our homes or cars when we might /
would need one, just as we might a phone, torch or money etc), the
emphasis is the second half of this para, 'unless' onwards?:

"carry a knife in public without good reason, unless it has a folding
blade with a cutting edge 3 inches long or less"

As an aside, I think the law looks for 'sharps or points', as might
airlines and if my 88 year old Mum can have her small sewing scissors
confiscated before boarding a flight (or suggestions of people having
tweezers confiscated pre a flight), what of a fine screwdriver or awl
on a multitool?

'No sharps, no points' ... what about 'needle-nose pliers' as they
sound (and often can be) pointy, as can a pencil?

It's like dogs ... lots of people regularly mix in public with dogs
that *could* be pretty dangerous (to a human) but they typically
aren't, because they haven't been trained to be and it isn't in their
temperament. That is in contrast to all those to 'use' a dog for
status or intentionally as a weapon.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I heard of g a shop-keeper who had a knife pulled on him and he
said to the lad ... "I hope you are good with that because if you
aren't I'm going to take it off you a stick it up your ar$e".
(Apparently) the lad look confused for a second and then walked out.
;-)

T i m wrote:

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or
multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade
I think with the current knife-crime issue, there's zero chance of
getting the classifications relaxed as 'they' don't want to send out any
message that is seen to condone carrying knives.

I carry a small Stanley knife (along with a handful of screwdrivers,
pliers, penlight, etc) in my laptop bag, but that is basically only ever
in my house, car, or on a customer site, the times I'd even walk down a
road with it are rare, so I don't plan to remove the knife.

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 10:52:22 AM UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
T i m wrote:

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or
multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade
I think with the current knife-crime issue, there's zero chance of
getting the classifications relaxed as 'they' don't want to send out any
message that is seen to condone carrying knives.

I carry a small Stanley knife (along with a handful of screwdrivers,
pliers, penlight, etc) in my laptop bag, but that is basically only ever
in my house, car, or on a customer site, the times I'd even walk down a
road with it are rare, so I don't plan to remove the knife.

Reading the govt website it says
"have blades that can be locked and refolded only by pressing a button"
The french knives do not have a button, they have a twist collar. So they would appear to be OK?

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
T i m wrote:

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or
multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade
I think with the current knife-crime issue, there's zero chance of
getting the classifications relaxed as 'they' don't want to send out any
message that is seen to condone carrying knives.

I carry a small Stanley knife (along with a handful of screwdrivers,
pliers, penlight, etc) in my laptop bag, but that is basically only ever
in my house, car, or on a customer site, the times I'd even walk down a
road with it are rare, so I don't plan to remove the knife.

The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it
might be needed seems odd to me.
Probably those who would also object to an ID card.

--
*Why isn't there mouse-flavoured cat food?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 7 May 2018 03:05:34 -0700 (PDT), misterroy wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 10:52:22 AM UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
T i m wrote:

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or
multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade
I think with the current knife-crime issue, there's zero chance of
getting the classifications relaxed as 'they' don't want to send out any
message that is seen to condone carrying knives.

I carry a small Stanley knife (along with a handful of screwdrivers,
pliers, penlight, etc) in my laptop bag, but that is basically only ever
in my house, car, or on a customer site, the times I'd even walk down a
road with it are rare, so I don't plan to remove the knife.

Reading the govt website it says
"have blades that can be locked and refolded only by pressing a button"
The french knives do not have a button, they have a twist collar. So they would appear to be OK?

My folding pruning saw is locked when open. About an 8" blade and could
inflict a very nasty wound.
I sometimes carry that, secateurs, short, geared, croppers and - gasp - a
sickle, so all rather sharp in some way and two of them are pointy.
Haven't yet taken the scythe for a walk - haven't found a way to conceal it!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 07/05/2018 11:05, misterroy wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 10:52:22 AM UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
T i m wrote:

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or
multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade
I think with the current knife-crime issue, there's zero chance of
getting the classifications relaxed as 'they' don't want to send out any
message that is seen to condone carrying knives.

I carry a small Stanley knife (along with a handful of screwdrivers,
pliers, penlight, etc) in my laptop bag, but that is basically only ever
in my house, car, or on a customer site, the times I'd even walk down a
road with it are rare, so I don't plan to remove the knife.

Reading the govt website it says
"have blades that can be locked and refolded only by pressing a button"
The french knives do not have a button, they have a twist collar. So they would appear to be OK?


No. You are putting to much weight on the gov.uk site.

The legislation merely provides that the "Offence of having article with
blade or point in public place" does not apply to "a folding
pocketknife" with a blade no longer than 3 inches.

There's no definition of "folding pocketknife". But it has been argued
in court. In Harris v DPP it was held that:

"...a knife which has a blade which can be fixed in the open position by
a locking device is not a folding pocketknife within the meaning of
section 1(3) of the 1993 Act"


and


"It cannot be described as a knife of that kind if it has a device which
is designed, until it has been overcome, to prevent the blade from being
folded."

Note nothing about buttons.

More generally, the gov.uk site cannot be relied upon as the _whole_
truth. To be fair, no guidance can else it'd be as long and hard to
read as the original legislation and case law. But gov.uk marked a
significant simplification (or dumbing down) of the guidance departments
used to produce.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
T i m wrote:

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or
multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade
I think with the current knife-crime issue, there's zero chance of
getting the classifications relaxed as 'they' don't want to send out any
message that is seen to condone carrying knives.

I carry a small Stanley knife (along with a handful of screwdrivers,
pliers, penlight, etc) in my laptop bag, but that is basically only ever
in my house, car, or on a customer site, the times I'd even walk down a
road with it are rare, so I don't plan to remove the knife.

The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it
might be needed seems odd to me.
Probably those who would also object to an ID card.

The idea of not carrying a few tools around for when they are inevitably
needed seems odd to me. And I strongly object to the process of
allocating ID cards, at least as much as to being forced to carry one.

--

Roger Hayter

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it
might be needed seems odd to me.
Probably those who would also object to an ID card.

The idea of not carrying a few tools around for when they are inevitably
needed seems odd to me.

At all times? Even when just going to post a letter?

And I strongly object to the process of
allocating ID cards, at least as much as to being forced to carry one.

Fairly common to want to do anything you want in theory, but object to
being told to do anything. Regardless of the pro and con arguments.

You want to carry a knife at all times regardless of whether it will be
needed or not. But don't want that extended to some 15 year old black, I
assume? Which makes it very difficult for the police etc to decide what
the purpose of that knife is.

I'm trying to remember the last time I'd wished I was carrying a
multi-tool on my person, when not at work.

--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 7 May 2018 11:53:30 +0100, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
T i m wrote:

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or
multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade
I think with the current knife-crime issue, there's zero chance of
getting the classifications relaxed as 'they' don't want to send out any
message that is seen to condone carrying knives.

I carry a small Stanley knife (along with a handful of screwdrivers,
pliers, penlight, etc) in my laptop bag, but that is basically only ever
in my house, car, or on a customer site, the times I'd even walk down a
road with it are rare, so I don't plan to remove the knife.

The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it
might be needed seems odd to me.
Probably those who would also object to an ID card.

The idea of not carrying a few tools around for when they are inevitably
needed seems odd to me.

Likewise, which is exactly what my Leatherman is to me, just as my
hands or feet are 'tools' and aren't (under my daily use) used as
weapons, although they could be?

Maybe it depends what sort of person you are and what you could
typically be doing at nearly any time of the day. Like, it's a Bank
Holiday Monday and just gone noon and I've already used my Leatherman
3 or 4 times, just 'pottering about'.

The last was to use the blade as a 'poker' to check the drain hole of
a boat I'm moving for a friend and before that, the pliers to release
a tie-down catch.

The boat is across the road and so I have to regularly walk to and fro
whilst I'm doing stuff and with my Leatherman in it's pouch on me
belt.

A couple of days ago I was walking along the pavement with a container
of sulphuric acid ... it came (in the box) with the dry-charged
motorcycle battery I'd just bought for the bike.

I fully understand the idea of things that shouldn't be in the 'wrong
hands' but surely we can't all be considered guilty before we prove
ourselves innocent (when there is no negative history, justification
or intent) by just doing what we do, when it's technically within the
laws of the land?

I carried a wheel brace over the road yesterday, that could easily be
used to club someone to death, was I walking on a legal tightrope?

And I strongly object to the process of
allocating ID cards, at least as much as to being forced to carry one.

I could do with one as I still only have a paper driving licence and
don't have a passport or bus pass and sometimes I need a 'Photo ID'.

As you say, not sure I want to be forced to carry one but I can't see
why I wouldn't (not that I believe they would serve any real purpose
re identity security).

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 07 May 2018 12:13:14 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it
might be needed seems odd to me.
Probably those who would also object to an ID card.

The idea of not carrying a few tools around for when they are inevitably
needed seems odd to me.

At all times? Even when just going to post a letter?

Would you take your mobile phone with you when posting a letter ... or
a torch if it might get dark whilst you were out or there might be
some hazards along the way?

And I strongly object to the process of
allocating ID cards, at least as much as to being forced to carry one.

Fairly common to want to do anything you want in theory, but object to
being told to do anything. Regardless of the pro and con arguments.

You want to carry a knife at all times regardless of whether it will be
needed or not. But don't want that extended to some 15 year old black, I
assume? Which makes it very difficult for the police etc to decide what
the purpose of that knife is.

There could be a big difference between 'a knife' or a knife that
wasn't on the banned list and part of a multitool because you were a
practical sort of guy and typically used it at least once every day
(or loaned it to other to use), and not always when you were in your
home or in your car?

I'm trying to remember the last time I'd wished I was carrying a
multi-tool on my person, when not at work.

I can remember many many times when I hadn't put it back in it's pouch
and had moved away from where I last used it (or worse, gone out) and
then found I couldn't do what I wanted / needed to.

Both wife and daughter know to 'look out' for my Leatherman and they
give it back to me if I've left it somewhere by mistake.

They like me to carry it because they both often borrow it (or get me
to use it on their behalf [1]). ;-)

Maybe it's one of those things that if you were inclined to carry one
all the time, you might then realise how often you could make use of
it, even over having to go and get / find 'house / garage tools' to do
the job with instead?

Cheers, T i m

[1] The other day, whist we were out and about my 88 year old Mum
showed me a nasty tear she had got on the back of her hand from some
metal trim that was on a new handbag she had bought. She asked if
there was anything I could do about it for her and I asked her if she
wanted to keep the trim. She said no, it can go so I used my
Leatherman to undo a couple of small Pozi screws and then the pliers
to bend up some tabs up and get it off for her. Could it have waited
till we got home to where the 'tools' are stored? Yes, but why should
we have to and what if had caught her again before we got home?

Ok, I was only in the Scouts for a few months (got bored as I was
doing more myself at the time) but what happened to 'Be prepared?

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
T i m wrote:

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or
multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade
I think with the current knife-crime issue, there's zero chance of
getting the classifications relaxed as 'they' don't want to send out any
message that is seen to condone carrying knives.

I carry a small Stanley knife (along with a handful of screwdrivers,
pliers, penlight, etc) in my laptop bag, but that is basically only ever
in my house, car, or on a customer site, the times I'd even walk down a
road with it are rare, so I don't plan to remove the knife.

The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it
might be needed seems odd to me.
Probably those who would also object to an ID card.

Huh! One determining factor seems to be a recognition of their inability
to map read well enough to follow a footpath. The multi-tool provides a
way forward without significant loss of face.


--
Tim Lamb

In article ,
T i m wrote:
The idea of not carrying a few tools around for when they are inevitably
needed seems odd to me.

Likewise, which is exactly what my Leatherman is to me, just as my
hands or feet are 'tools' and aren't (under my daily use) used as
weapons, although they could be?

And in a recent high profile killing, the weapon was a screwdriver.

Maybe it depends what sort of person you are and what you could
typically be doing at nearly any time of the day. Like, it's a Bank
Holiday Monday and just gone noon and I've already used my Leatherman
3 or 4 times, just 'pottering about'.

You've been pottering about the streets looking for things to fix? Don't
think many would object to you carrying any tools you wish around the
house - or on the way to a job where they'll be needed.

--
*A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
At all times? Even when just going to post a letter?

Would you take your mobile phone with you when posting a letter ... or
a torch if it might get dark whilst you were out or there might be
some hazards along the way?

I don't take my phone if only going out for a few minutes. And round here
the dark doesn't comes as a surprise. And we also have that unusual thing
called street lighting.

--
*If you can read this, thank a teecher

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:41:06 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
At all times? Even when just going to post a letter?

Would you take your mobile phone with you when posting a letter ... or
a torch if it might get dark whilst you were out or there might be
some hazards along the way?

I don't take my phone if only going out for a few minutes.

Ok, I would say most do.

And round here
the dark doesn't comes as a surprise.

But the duration you are out could be (again, or can be for many).

And we also have that unusual thing
called street lighting.

So do we, but many don't or it goes off at midnight.

The point being that people often carry tools, even though they aren't
regularly used to makes even more sense when they are.

You may not have the need to 'daily carry' say a Multitool or a pocket
knife but others do.

Daughter and I were walking along the towpath recently when we came
across a lady who was pumping up her rear tyre. I asked if she was ok
and initially she said she was but then conceded she'd got a puncture.
I asked if she had a puncture repair outfit and she said they she knew
she should but she didn't. Long short, we offered to put her bike in
the car and run her the few miles home and she accepted.

In contrast to your question about why anyone would want to carry say
a multi tool, I question why anyone out on a bicycle *wouldn't* carry
the means to at least repair (or deal with, eg a spare tube) a
puncture?

Now, if she didn't know *how* to fix a puncture then that might
explain why she didn't carry the means to do so herself, but someone
else could use them for her, or she could help someone else (even if
only supplying the means).

Many-a-time I have been able to help myself, my family, friends or
even complete strangers *because* I carry my multitool with me always.

It's just like carrying a smart phone means I don't typically need to
also carry a camera (/magnifier), torch or PC and I probably use it
more for the first two than I do as a phone. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 07 May 2018 15:38:25 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
The idea of not carrying a few tools around for when they are inevitably
needed seems odd to me.

Likewise, which is exactly what my Leatherman is to me, just as my
hands or feet are 'tools' and aren't (under my daily use) used as
weapons, although they could be?

And in a recent high profile killing, the weapon was a screwdriver.

Quite, and why you really need to know what you are doing before you
pull a weapon on someone. ;-(

Maybe it depends what sort of person you are and what you could
typically be doing at nearly any time of the day. Like, it's a Bank
Holiday Monday and just gone noon and I've already used my Leatherman
3 or 4 times, just 'pottering about'.

You've been pottering about the streets looking for things to fix?

Nope, but I often potter along the streets and find things at places
along them where I can make use of such tools?

Don't
think many would object to you carrying any tools you wish around the
house -

Doh. ;-)

or on the way to a job where they'll be needed.

Ah, so you only carry a spare when you are planning on getting a
puncture. How about you consider that I actually am just carrying my
Leatherman between jobs and those jobs are unpredictable in the main?

I rarely carry my phone because I know I am going to call someone, I
carry my phone (most times) because someone might need to call *me*.

I don't go out with the intention of taking a photograph of something
but often find myself doing so because something catches my eye or I
need a reference (like in a shop etc).

I rarely put my Leatherman PST II on my belt because I *know* I'm
going to use it for anything specific that day ... but I generally
find I do (and so carry it all the time because I like to be able to).

I had a craft knife confiscated as I went into see Genesis at Earls
Court because I forgot it was in the pocket of my only jacket that I
also wore when radio modeling. They didn't confiscate the other
'tools' I had in the same pocket, like the tape or glue (for some
reason) and it had never crossed my mind to use any of them on anyone.

Maybe it's because I'm a 60 year old d-i-yer known for fixing stuff
for people and not a 'yout' who couldn't even fit a plug that it all
seems very reasonable to me and everyone who knows me?

Cheers, T i m

On 07/05/2018 11:05, misterroy wrote:

Reading the govt website it says
"have blades that can be locked and refolded only by pressing a button"
The french knives do not have a button, they have a twist collar. So they would appear to be OK?


The folding stanley blade knife lidl sold last year had a locking blade
(well the two halves that folded locked when unfolded}.
You had to press the bit between the two shells to get it to fold rather
than a "button".



Don't know if it is legal and don't care as I don't carry it about.

On 2018-05-07, PeterC wrote:

On Mon, 7 May 2018 03:05:34 -0700 (PDT), misterroy wrote:

Reading the govt website it says
"have blades that can be locked and refolded only by pressing a button"
The french knives do not have a button, they have a twist collar. So they would appear to be OK?

My folding pruning saw is locked when open. About an 8" blade and could
inflict a very nasty wound.
I sometimes carry that, secateurs, short, geared, croppers and - gasp - a
sickle, so all rather sharp in some way and two of them are pointy.
Haven't yet taken the scythe for a walk - haven't found a way to conceal it!

The obvious accompaniment is a dark hooded robe.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it
might be needed seems odd to me.
Probably those who would also object to an ID card.

The idea of not carrying a few tools around for when they are inevitably
needed seems odd to me.

At all times? Even when just going to post a letter?

I do that so rarely, only every few years now, that it makes
no sense to do that differently to every other time I go out,

And I strongly object to the process of allocating ID
cards, at least as much as to being forced to carry one.

Fairly common to want to do anything you want in theory, but object
to being told to do anything. Regardless of the pro and con arguments.

You want to carry a knife at all times regardless
of whether it will be needed or not.

Because its impossible to know when it will be useful.

But don't want that extended to some 15 year old black,
I assume? Which makes it very difficult for the police etc
to decide what the purpose of that knife is.

I'm trying to remember the last time I'd wished I was
carrying a multi-tool on my person, when not at work.

Yeah, I don’t bother and hardly ever wish I had.

IMO it makes sense to ban the carrying of all knives
on your person. Sure it would inconvenience some
people, but so does getting stabbed by some arsehole.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 May 2018 12:13:14 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it
might be needed seems odd to me.
Probably those who would also object to an ID card.

The idea of not carrying a few tools around for when they are inevitably
needed seems odd to me.

At all times? Even when just going to post a letter?

Would you take your mobile phone with you when posting a letter ...

Yep, because that's all I use for phone calls now and someone
might call me while I am doing that or I might need to call the
cops or an ambulance for someone with a problem while I'm out.

or a torch if it might get dark whilst you were out
or there might be some hazards along the way?

I use the torch in the phone for that.

And I strongly object to the process of
allocating ID cards, at least as much as to being forced to carry one.

Fairly common to want to do anything you want in theory, but object to
being told to do anything. Regardless of the pro and con arguments.

You want to carry a knife at all times regardless of whether it will be
needed or not. But don't want that extended to some 15 year old black, I
assume? Which makes it very difficult for the police etc to decide what
the purpose of that knife is.

There could be a big difference between 'a knife' or a knife that
wasn't on the banned list and part of a multitool because you were a
practical sort of guy and typically used it at least once every day
(or loaned it to other to use), and not always when you were in your
home or in your car?

And it should be possible to design a multitool
that cant be used to stabbing anyone.

I'm trying to remember the last time I'd wished I was
carrying a multi-tool on my person, when not at work.

I can remember many many times when I hadn't put it back in it's
pouch and had moved away from where I last used it (or worse,
gone out) and then found I couldn't do what I wanted / needed to.

Both wife and daughter know to 'look out' for my Leatherman
and they give it back to me if I've left it somewhere by mistake.

They like me to carry it because they both often borrow it (or get me
to use it on their behalf [1]). ;-)

Maybe it's one of those things that if you were inclined to carry one
all the time, you might then realise how often you could make use of
it, even over having to go and get / find 'house / garage tools' to do
the job with instead?

[1] The other day, whist we were out and about my 88 year old Mum
showed me a nasty tear she had got on the back of her hand from some
metal trim that was on a new handbag she had bought. She asked if
there was anything I could do about it for her and I asked her if she
wanted to keep the trim. She said no, it can go so I used my
Leatherman to undo a couple of small Pozi screws and then the pliers
to bend up some tabs up and get it off for her. Could it have waited
till we got home to where the 'tools' are stored? Yes, but why should
we have to and what if had caught her again before we got home?

Ok, I was only in the Scouts for a few months (got bored as I was
doing more myself at the time) but what happened to 'Be prepared?

It was only ever just more bull****.

On 06/05/2018 18:51, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2018 19:15:06 +0200, TimW wrote:

French, a bit iconic, wood handled folding knives in many sizes. I have
an idea that folding knives with locking handles are illegal, or not
saleable or something in the UK. Is that so?

I'd be very, very surprised if that were so. I think you're getting
confused with flick knives/switchblade knives.




Lock knives fall into the banned category as regards being carried in
public without good reason.

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

While it mentions pressing a button, I doubt you'd get away with it just
because the Opinel uses a ring.


--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news
On 06/05/2018 18:51, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2018 19:15:06 +0200, TimW wrote:

French, a bit iconic, wood handled folding knives in many sizes. I have
an idea that folding knives with locking handles are illegal, or not
saleable or something in the UK. Is that so?

I'd be very, very surprised if that were so. I think you're getting
confused with flick knives/switchblade knives.




Lock knives fall into the banned category as regards being carried in
public without good reason.

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

While it mentions pressing a button, I doubt you'd get away with it just
because the Opinel uses a ring.

Particularly when the legislation says nothing about a button.

On 07/05/2018 10:52, Andy Burns wrote:
T i m wrote:

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or
multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade
I think with the current knife-crime issue, there's zero chance of
getting the classifications relaxed as 'they' don't want to send out any
message that is seen to condone carrying knives.

I carry a small Stanley knife (along with a handful of screwdrivers,
pliers, penlight, etc) in my laptop bag, but that is basically only ever
in my house, car, or on a customer site, the times I'd even walk down a
road with it are rare, so I don't plan to remove the knife.

I've frequently been doing some DIY or some modelmaking, nipped out to
the shops (often the supermarket) and only when I have put my hand in my
pocket have I discovered that I still have a Stanley knife in my pocket.

On dozens of such occassions I have discovered that I have an unguarded
scalpel there! Amazingly, I've never cut myself when finding the scalpel.

SteveW

Steve Walker wrote
Andy Burns wrote
T i m wrote

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or
multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade
I think with the current knife-crime issue, there's zero chance of
getting the classifications relaxed as 'they' don't want to send out any
message that is seen to condone carrying knives.

I carry a small Stanley knife (along with a handful of screwdrivers,
pliers, penlight, etc) in my laptop bag, but that is basically only ever
in my house, car, or on a customer site, the times I'd even walk down a
road with it are rare, so I don't plan to remove the knife.

I've frequently been doing some DIY or some modelmaking, nipped out to the
shops (often the supermarket) and only when I have put my hand in my
pocket have I discovered that I still have a Stanley knife in my pocket.

On dozens of such occassions I have discovered that I have an unguarded
scalpel there! Amazingly, I've never cut myself when finding the scalpel.

I dont put either in my pocket when using them around the house.

And they are both so cheap that I have a number of them around
the house so that one is usually close where I use them most. And
I have some spare steak knives there too, handy for opening boxes
when they first show up with an online order too.

In article ,
Huge wrote:
The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it
might be needed seems odd to me.

After all, Mother State will look after you at all times, right?

Are you ****ed again?

And
indeed, once everything is owned and controlled by the State, you
won't need any tools, because everything will be perfect.

Try reading what you've written when sober and see if it still makes sense
to you. If it does seek treatment.

I just find it very funny some on here won't even leave the house without
taking things for every eventuality with them.

--
*If you can't see my mirrors, I'm doing my hair*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 8 May 2018 00:31:44 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:

The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it
might be needed seems odd to me.

After all, Mother State will look after you at all times, right?

Are you ****ed again?

And
indeed, once everything is owned and controlled by the State, you
won't need any tools, because everything will be perfect.

Try reading what you've written when sober and see if it still makes sense
to you. If it does seek treatment.

I just find it very funny some on here won't even leave the house without
taking things for every eventuality with them.

No-one ever mentioned being prepared for every eventuality. But being trivially easily prepared for some common situations seems sensible enough. It's no longer legal though. Huge does have a point this time.

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 8 May 2018 00:31:44 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:

The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it
might be needed seems odd to me.

After all, Mother State will look after you at all times, right?

Are you ****ed again?

And
indeed, once everything is owned and controlled by the State, you
won't need any tools, because everything will be perfect.

Try reading what you've written when sober and see if it still makes
sense
to you. If it does seek treatment.

I just find it very funny some on here won't even leave the house without
taking things for every eventuality with them.

No-one ever mentioned being prepared for every eventuality. But being
trivially easily prepared for some common situations seems sensible
enough.

Yes, particularly if the tool is small enough so its trivial to have in your
pocket.

It's no longer legal though.

Thats wrong when the knife is less than 3" and that should
be plenty for most of the uses knifes are put to with those
tools, or has everything except the knife, particularly if it
has some other cutter like you get with side cutters etc.

Huge does have a point this time.

No he doesnt with that is illegal to carry now.