Whilst our boiler has been inoperative, we have had to make do with
just the living room radiant gas fire. With door closed, it is more
than warm enough on 1/3 of its 3 bars lit, but the rest of the house is
cold. Aside from the heating, the gas boiler provided for all our main
hot water needs too, washing up, cleaning and baths. With an electric
shower. The gas heater has been lit roughly for the same amount of time
as the boiler would be providing heating in the place.

Cooking is via gas, so unaltered.

I log gas, electric and water consumption every week, on a Sunday. The
boiler failed mid- week, so this is the first full week with no boiler.
In the previous two full weeks with boiler in operation, total gas
consumption was £14 per week. In the this full week of no boiler use
consumption was £7 - so about half the cost if we put up with one room
heated, versus the whole house being comfortably warm.

On 01/04/2018 12:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Whilst our boiler has been inoperative, we have had to make do with just
the living room radiant gas fire. With door closed, it is more than warm
enough on 1/3 of its 3 bars lit, but the rest of the house is cold.
Aside from the heating, the gas boiler provided for all our main hot
water needs too, washing up, cleaning and baths. With an electric
shower. The gas heater has been lit roughly for the same amount of time
as the boiler would be providing heating in the place.

Cooking is via gas, so unaltered.

I log gas, electric and water consumption every week, on a Sunday. The
boiler failed mid- week, so this is the first full week with no boiler.
In the previous two full weeks with boiler in operation, total gas
consumption was £14 per week. In the this full week of no boiler use
consumption was £7 - so about half the cost if we put up with one room
heated, versus the whole house being comfortably warm.


What were you expecting the gas costs to be? A serious question, I am
not taking the ****.

I would have expected it to be less than £7 of gas but last week we had
a couple of cold days and nights. Well South Yorks did and you are not a
million miles away.

On Thursday it was 1 deg C at 8am when I started work in the stables and
the conversation with the apprentice went along the lines of

Apprentice "What are we doing here?"

Me "Putting in power for the second coming"

Apprentice "OK"

End of conversation!!! That was it. He had absolutely no idea what I was
on about and left it at that.


What were your electric costs were for the same period compared to the
second?

Cheers

--
Adam

ARW expressed precisely :
What were you expecting the gas costs to be? A serious question, I am not
taking the ****.

I a few years ago out of curiosity - asked how inefficient the usual
gas radiant type room heaters were, compared to running the central
heating. The suggestion was, that they were very inefficient, but no
actual figures given as to just how inefficient. Heating the one room
by that means, versus heating the whole house. Someone had raised the
question before me, in their attempts to save money. I was more
interested in maybe using the heater to supplement the central heating.
The heater had never been used, apart from to check it, since it was
installed.

To answer your question - I was expecting such an heater to be much
more efficient/ less costly to run than it has proven. I expected the
bill to be 1/3rd of the cost of running the central heating. I
appreciate that a lot of the heat produced, goes straight up the flue.

On 01/04/2018 16:38, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
ARW expressed precisely :
What were you expecting the gas costs to be? A serious question, I am
not taking the ****.

I a few years ago out of curiosity - asked how inefficient the usual gas
radiant type room heaters were, compared to running the central heating.
The suggestion was, that they were very inefficient, but no actual
figures given as to just how inefficient. Heating the one room by that
means, versus heating the whole house. Someone had raised the question
before me, in their attempts to save money. I was more interested in
maybe using the heater to supplement the central heating. The heater had
never been used, apart from to check it, since it was installed.

To answer your question - I was expecting such an heater to be much more
efficient/ less costly to run than it has proven. I expected the bill to
be 1/3rd of the cost of running the* central heating. I appreciate that
a lot of the heat produced, goes straight up the flue.

IIRC the efficiency (in terms of heat going into the room rather than up
the flue) depends a lot on the type of fire - especially on whether or
not it is outset. Outset can achieve over 80 per cent. But there is
naturally still the buggeration of the cold air sucked in to feed it.

Also tricky to make such comparisons when the house takes time to cool
down after the central heating going off. Seems to me yours probably
did if the boiler failed midweek but if it's in the baronial style with
3 foot walls...

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Robin explained on 01/04/2018 :
Also tricky to make such comparisons when the house takes time to cool down
after the central heating going off. Seems to me yours probably did if the
boiler failed midweek but if it's in the baronial style with 3 foot walls...

No, just a well insulated brick semi. Extra tricky, because of the big
variations in the weather at the moment.

On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 15:57:45 +0100
ARW wrote:

On 01/04/2018 12:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Whilst our boiler has been inoperative, we have had to make do with
just the living room radiant gas fire. With door closed, it is more
than warm enough on 1/3 of its 3 bars lit, but the rest of the
house is cold. Aside from the heating, the gas boiler provided for
all our main hot water needs too, washing up, cleaning and baths.
With an electric shower. The gas heater has been lit roughly for
the same amount of time as the boiler would be providing heating in
the place.

Cooking is via gas, so unaltered.

I log gas, electric and water consumption every week, on a Sunday.
The boiler failed mid- week, so this is the first full week with no
boiler. In the previous two full weeks with boiler in operation,
total gas consumption was £14 per week. In the this full week of no
boiler use consumption was £7 - so about half the cost if we put up
with one room heated, versus the whole house being comfortably
warm.


What were you expecting the gas costs to be? A serious question, I am
not taking the ****.

I would have expected it to be less than £7 of gas but last week we
had a couple of cold days and nights. Well South Yorks did and you
are not a million miles away.

On Thursday it was 1 deg C at 8am when I started work in the stables
and the conversation with the apprentice went along the lines of

Apprentice "What are we doing here?"

Me "Putting in power for the second coming"

Apprentice "OK"

End of conversation!!! That was it. He had absolutely no idea what I
was on about and left it at that.


What were your electric costs were for the same period compared to
the second?

Cheers


I had a call a few weeks ago where the customer said he'd been taking
meter readings and he was losing about £10 of electricity a day. He
thought it was something to do with his boiler as sometimes he had some
warm water coming out of the cold tap. Sounded like a sensible bloke,
even though what he was saying was a bit odd, so I went for a look.

Supply was nominally a TT (no sign of a rod) with an old Wylex
rewireable box. Clamp meter on + tail 10.5A, clamp meter on - tail
0.5A. Pulled the fuses an found the current was flowing in the ring. A
quick look around found a socket with a very hot screw - the live had
been nicked by the screw and was providing a nice 24 ohm earth path to
the incoming lead water main. An expensive way to heat the water in the
first few feet of lead pipe and lucky not to have had a fire.

On 01/04/2018 16:38, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

To answer your question - I was expecting such an heater to be much more
efficient/ less costly to run than it has proven. I expected the bill to
be 1/3rd of the cost of running the* central heating. I appreciate that
a lot of the heat produced, goes straight up the flue.


And I would have put money on a 1/3rd of the cost if the odds were offered!





--
Adam

On Sunday, 1 April 2018 18:15:29 UTC+1, Steve wrote:

I had a call a few weeks ago where the customer said he'd been taking
meter readings and he was losing about £10 of electricity a day. He
thought it was something to do with his boiler as sometimes he had some
warm water coming out of the cold tap. Sounded like a sensible bloke,
even though what he was saying was a bit odd, so I went for a look.

Supply was nominally a TT (no sign of a rod) with an old Wylex
rewireable box. Clamp meter on + tail 10.5A, clamp meter on - tail
0.5A. Pulled the fuses an found the current was flowing in the ring. A
quick look around found a socket with a very hot screw - the live had
been nicked by the screw and was providing a nice 24 ohm earth path to
the incoming lead water main. An expensive way to heat the water in the
first few feet of lead pipe and lucky not to have had a fire.

can we put that on the diy wiki?


NT

On 01/04/2018 12:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Whilst our boiler has been inoperative, we have had to make do with just
the living room radiant gas fire. With door closed, it is more than warm
enough on 1/3 of its 3 bars lit, but the rest of the house is cold.
Aside from the heating, the gas boiler provided for all our main hot
water needs too, washing up, cleaning and baths. With an electric
shower. The gas heater has been lit roughly for the same amount of time
as the boiler would be providing heating in the place.

Cooking is via gas, so unaltered.

I log gas, electric and water consumption every week, on a Sunday. The
boiler failed mid- week, so this is the first full week with no boiler.
In the previous two full weeks with boiler in operation, total gas
consumption was £14 per week. In the this full week of no boiler use
consumption was £7 - so about half the cost if we put up with one room
heated, versus the whole house being comfortably warm.

If you have proper controls (eg zone valves and stats) then heating the
same space with the boiler will probably cost less than using the fire.
Fires are only about 50% efficient while boilers are about 80%.

On 01/04/2018 19:23, wrote:
On Sunday, 1 April 2018 18:15:29 UTC+1, Steve wrote:

I had a call a few weeks ago where the customer said he'd been taking
meter readings and he was losing about £10 of electricity a day. He
thought it was something to do with his boiler as sometimes he had some
warm water coming out of the cold tap. Sounded like a sensible bloke,
even though what he was saying was a bit odd, so I went for a look.

Supply was nominally a TT (no sign of a rod) with an old Wylex
rewireable box. Clamp meter on + tail 10.5A, clamp meter on - tail
0.5A. Pulled the fuses an found the current was flowing in the ring. A
quick look around found a socket with a very hot screw - the live had
been nicked by the screw and was providing a nice 24 ohm earth path to
the incoming lead water main. An expensive way to heat the water in the
first few feet of lead pipe and lucky not to have had a fire.

can we put that on the diy wiki?

Before or after homeownershub post it with replies in 2020, 2023 and 2525?


--
Adam

On Sunday, 1 April 2018 19:31:15 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 01/04/2018 19:23, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 1 April 2018 18:15:29 UTC+1, Steve wrote:

I had a call a few weeks ago where the customer said he'd been taking
meter readings and he was losing about £10 of electricity a day. He
thought it was something to do with his boiler as sometimes he had some
warm water coming out of the cold tap. Sounded like a sensible bloke,
even though what he was saying was a bit odd, so I went for a look.

Supply was nominally a TT (no sign of a rod) with an old Wylex
rewireable box. Clamp meter on + tail 10.5A, clamp meter on - tail
0.5A. Pulled the fuses an found the current was flowing in the ring. A
quick look around found a socket with a very hot screw - the live had
been nicked by the screw and was providing a nice 24 ohm earth path to
the incoming lead water main. An expensive way to heat the water in the
first few feet of lead pipe and lucky not to have had a fire.

can we put that on the diy wiki?

Before or after homeownershub post it with replies in 2020, 2023 and 2525?

Only 7 years? They've done better than that many a time.

New blood here is no bad thing, but for some reason the hohers are seldom capable of anything.


NT

dennis@home wrote on 01/04/2018 :
If you have proper controls (eg zone valves and stats) then heating the same
space with the boiler will probably cost less than using the fire.
Fires are only about 50% efficient while boilers are about 80%.

Modern boiler spec. suggests 90% at the boiler, but my boiler is out of
commission at the moment.

On 01/04/2018 19:36, wrote:
On Sunday, 1 April 2018 19:31:15 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 01/04/2018 19:23, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 1 April 2018 18:15:29 UTC+1, Steve wrote:

I had a call a few weeks ago where the customer said he'd been taking
meter readings and he was losing about £10 of electricity a day. He
thought it was something to do with his boiler as sometimes he had some
warm water coming out of the cold tap. Sounded like a sensible bloke,
even though what he was saying was a bit odd, so I went for a look.

Supply was nominally a TT (no sign of a rod) with an old Wylex
rewireable box. Clamp meter on + tail 10.5A, clamp meter on - tail
0.5A. Pulled the fuses an found the current was flowing in the ring. A
quick look around found a socket with a very hot screw - the live had
been nicked by the screw and was providing a nice 24 ohm earth path to
the incoming lead water main. An expensive way to heat the water in the
first few feet of lead pipe and lucky not to have had a fire.

can we put that on the diy wiki?

Before or after homeownershub post it with replies in 2020, 2023 and 2525?

Only 7 years? They've done better than that many a time.

New blood here is no bad thing, but for some reason the hohers are seldom capable of anything.



:-)

Yes it ought to go into the wiki. It's also something I have encountered
a few times.

1. A garage fed from a 20A MCB with SWA from a non RCD side of a TT
supply CU (not even the 100mA RCD main switch protection that is the
minimum that ALL TT supplies are required to have on all circuits).

Rats ate the fridge freezer supply cord in the garage and created a SC
that caused a 10A earth fault back up to the CU. Big electricity bill.

2. A TN supply but the TN earth was not connected (making it a TT
supply) and there was also not any main equipotential bonding. The only
earth was from the buried pyro to the garage. Owner got a belt from the
cold tap. I earthed the TN supply and destroyed the damaged pyro when I
switched that circuit back on.


--
Adam

On 01/04/2018 19:29, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/04/2018 12:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Whilst our boiler has been inoperative, we have had to make do with
just the living room radiant gas fire. With door closed, it is more
than warm enough on 1/3 of its 3 bars lit, but the rest of the house
is cold. Aside from the heating, the gas boiler provided for all our
main hot water needs too, washing up, cleaning and baths. With an
electric shower. The gas heater has been lit roughly for the same
amount of time as the boiler would be providing heating in the place.

Cooking is via gas, so unaltered.

I log gas, electric and water consumption every week, on a Sunday. The
boiler failed mid- week, so this is the first full week with no
boiler. In the previous two full weeks with boiler in operation, total
gas consumption was £14 per week. In the this full week of no boiler
use consumption was £7 - so about half the cost if we put up with one
room heated, versus the whole house being comfortably warm.

If you have proper controls (eg zone valves and stats) then heating the
same space with the boiler will probably cost less than using the fire.
Fires are only about 50% efficient while boilers are about 80%.


Old fashioned radiant fires, like the ones stuck on the front of
a Baxi Bermuda were far more efficient than 50%.

Many of the Gazco fires are in the 78 to 82% range.

It's the old cast-iron lumps with a non-fanned balanced flue
that are down to 50% or less.

Andrew wrote:

dennis@home wrote:

Fires are only about 50% efficient while boilers are about 80%.

Many of the Gazco fires are in the 78 to 82% range It's the old cast-iron lumps with a non-fanned balanced flue
that are down to 50% or less.

SEDBUK says mine is 78% probably applied when it was new), so would a
combi replacement reach the payback point before it died?

On 01/04/2018 18:15, Steve wrote:
snip

I had a call a few weeks ago where the customer said he'd been taking
meter readings and he was losing about £10 of electricity a day. He
thought it was something to do with his boiler as sometimes he had some
warm water coming out of the cold tap. Sounded like a sensible bloke,
even though what he was saying was a bit odd, so I went for a look.

Supply was nominally a TT (no sign of a rod) with an old Wylex
rewireable box. Clamp meter on + tail 10.5A, clamp meter on - tail
0.5A. Pulled the fuses an found the current was flowing in the ring. A
quick look around found a socket with a very hot screw - the live had
been nicked by the screw and was providing a nice 24 ohm earth path to
the incoming lead water main. An expensive way to heat the water in the
first few feet of lead pipe and lucky not to have had a fire.


Seems to me the kind of thing most people would be more likely to spot
with a smart meter and a free display of their current [sic] consumption


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 01/04/2018 19:55, Andrew wrote:
On 01/04/2018 19:29, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/04/2018 12:55, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Whilst our boiler has been inoperative, we have had to make do with
just the living room radiant gas fire. With door closed, it is more
than warm enough on 1/3 of its 3 bars lit, but the rest of the house
is cold. Aside from the heating, the gas boiler provided for all our
main hot water needs too, washing up, cleaning and baths. With an
electric shower. The gas heater has been lit roughly for the same
amount of time as the boiler would be providing heating in the place.

Cooking is via gas, so unaltered.

I log gas, electric and water consumption every week, on a Sunday.
The boiler failed mid- week, so this is the first full week with no
boiler. In the previous two full weeks with boiler in operation,
total gas consumption was £14 per week. In the this full week of no
boiler use consumption was £7 - so about half the cost if we put up
with one room heated, versus the whole house being comfortably warm.

If you have proper controls (eg zone valves and stats) then heating
the same space with the boiler will probably cost less than using the
fire.
Fires are only about 50% efficient while boilers are about 80%.


Old fashioned radiant fires, like the ones stuck on the front of
a Baxi Bermuda were far more efficient than 50%.

Many of the Gazco fires are in the 78 to 82% range.

It's the old cast-iron lumps with a non-fanned balanced flue
that are down to 50% or less.

Yes. The key is to have an outset, radiant fire. Or, to look at it
another way, to get as far away from an imitation coal fire as possible

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 01/04/2018 16:38, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
ARW expressed precisely :
What were you expecting the gas costs to be? A serious question, I am
not taking the ****.

I a few years ago out of curiosity - asked how inefficient the usual gas
radiant type room heaters were, compared to running the central heating.
The suggestion was, that they were very inefficient, but no actual
figures given as to just how inefficient. Heating the one room by that
means, versus heating the whole house. Someone had raised the question
before me, in their attempts to save money. I was more interested in
maybe using the heater to supplement the central heating. The heater had
never been used, apart from to check it, since it was installed.

To answer your question - I was expecting such an heater to be much more
efficient/ less costly to run than it has proven. I expected the bill to
be 1/3rd of the cost of running the central heating. I appreciate that
a lot of the heat produced, goes straight up the flue.

Lots of (especially older) gas fires are under 65% efficient IIRC.
(worse still for some "living flame" ones).

More modern balanced flue ones and "high efficiency" ones can better
than 80% though. The flueless (i.e. catalytic) ones can be close to 100%
some manufacturers claim.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

So, where is the problem with that? Sounds to me that you are comparing
oranges with Apples.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
news
Whilst our boiler has been inoperative, we have had to make do with just
the living room radiant gas fire. With door closed, it is more than warm
enough on 1/3 of its 3 bars lit, but the rest of the house is cold. Aside
from the heating, the gas boiler provided for all our main hot water needs
too, washing up, cleaning and baths. With an electric shower. The gas
heater has been lit roughly for the same amount of time as the boiler
would be providing heating in the place.

Cooking is via gas, so unaltered.

I log gas, electric and water consumption every week, on a Sunday. The
boiler failed mid- week, so this is the first full week with no boiler. In
the previous two full weeks with boiler in operation, total gas
consumption was £14 per week. In the this full week of no boiler use
consumption was £7 - so about half the cost if we put up with one room
heated, versus the whole house being comfortably warm.

Brian Gaff pretended :
So, where is the problem with that? Sounds to me that you are comparing
oranges with Apples.
Brian

Just one of those things, which are useful to know. Warmth is warmth,
so a fair comparison.

On Sunday, 1 April 2018 19:55:24 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 01/04/2018 19:36, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 1 April 2018 19:31:15 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 01/04/2018 19:23, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 1 April 2018 18:15:29 UTC+1, Steve wrote:

I had a call a few weeks ago where the customer said he'd been taking
meter readings and he was losing about £10 of electricity a day.. He
thought it was something to do with his boiler as sometimes he had some
warm water coming out of the cold tap. Sounded like a sensible bloke,
even though what he was saying was a bit odd, so I went for a look.

Supply was nominally a TT (no sign of a rod) with an old Wylex
rewireable box. Clamp meter on + tail 10.5A, clamp meter on - tail
0.5A. Pulled the fuses an found the current was flowing in the ring. A
quick look around found a socket with a very hot screw - the live had
been nicked by the screw and was providing a nice 24 ohm earth path to
the incoming lead water main. An expensive way to heat the water in the
first few feet of lead pipe and lucky not to have had a fire.

can we put that on the diy wiki?

Before or after homeownershub post it with replies in 2020, 2023 and 2525?

Only 7 years? They've done better than that many a time.

New blood here is no bad thing, but for some reason the hohers are seldom capable of anything.



:-)

Yes it ought to go into the wiki.

Yup, but so far we've not heard back from Steve.


It's also something I have encountered
a few times.

1. A garage fed from a 20A MCB with SWA from a non RCD side of a TT
supply CU (not even the 100mA RCD main switch protection that is the
minimum that ALL TT supplies are required to have on all circuits).

Rats ate the fridge freezer supply cord in the garage and created a SC
that caused a 10A earth fault back up to the CU. Big electricity bill.

2. A TN supply but the TN earth was not connected (making it a TT
supply) and there was also not any main equipotential bonding. The only
earth was from the buried pyro to the garage. Owner got a belt from the
cold tap. I earthed the TN supply and destroyed the damaged pyro when I
switched that circuit back on.

On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 12:21:20 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

On Sunday, 1 April 2018 19:55:24 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 01/04/2018 19:36, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 1 April 2018 19:31:15 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 01/04/2018 19:23, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 1 April 2018 18:15:29 UTC+1, Steve wrote:

I had a call a few weeks ago where the customer said he'd been
taking meter readings and he was losing about £10 of
electricity a day. He thought it was something to do with his
boiler as sometimes he had some warm water coming out of the
cold tap. Sounded like a sensible bloke, even though what he
was saying was a bit odd, so I went for a look.

Supply was nominally a TT (no sign of a rod) with an old Wylex
rewireable box. Clamp meter on + tail 10.5A, clamp meter on -
tail 0.5A. Pulled the fuses an found the current was flowing
in the ring. A quick look around found a socket with a very
hot screw - the live had been nicked by the screw and was
providing a nice 24 ohm earth path to the incoming lead water
main. An expensive way to heat the water in the first few feet
of lead pipe and lucky not to have had a fire.

can we put that on the diy wiki?

Before or after homeownershub post it with replies in 2020, 2023
and 2525?

Only 7 years? They've done better than that many a time.

New blood here is no bad thing, but for some reason the hohers
are seldom capable of anything.


:-)

Yes it ought to go into the wiki.

Yup, but so far we've not heard back from Steve.

Hi, sorry - didn't understand that you needed my permission. I assumed
that you could do as you liked with a public post, my fault.

I'm fine with it being put in the wiki.

On Monday, 2 April 2018 23:19:57 UTC+1, Steve wrote:
On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 12:21:20 -0700 (PDT)
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 1 April 2018 19:55:24 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 01/04/2018 19:36, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 1 April 2018 19:31:15 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 01/04/2018 19:23, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 1 April 2018 18:15:29 UTC+1, Steve wrote:

I had a call a few weeks ago where the customer said he'd been
taking meter readings and he was losing about £10 of
electricity a day. He thought it was something to do with his
boiler as sometimes he had some warm water coming out of the
cold tap. Sounded like a sensible bloke, even though what he
was saying was a bit odd, so I went for a look.

Supply was nominally a TT (no sign of a rod) with an old Wylex
rewireable box. Clamp meter on + tail 10.5A, clamp meter on -
tail 0.5A. Pulled the fuses an found the current was flowing
in the ring. A quick look around found a socket with a very
hot screw - the live had been nicked by the screw and was
providing a nice 24 ohm earth path to the incoming lead water
main. An expensive way to heat the water in the first few feet
of lead pipe and lucky not to have had a fire.

can we put that on the diy wiki?

Before or after homeownershub post it with replies in 2020, 2023
and 2525?

Only 7 years? They've done better than that many a time.

New blood here is no bad thing, but for some reason the hohers
are seldom capable of anything.


:-)

Yes it ought to go into the wiki.

Yup, but so far we've not heard back from Steve.

Hi, sorry - didn't understand that you needed my permission. I assumed
that you could do as you liked with a public post, my fault.

I'm fine with it being put in the wiki.

nice one, ta. Just need permission due to copyright.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/TT_water_heating


NT