Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat. Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes. Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days, and am inclined to obtain one along
with suitable carbide blade/cutter tools. My instinct is mains/corded
and 300 Watts-ish.

Can anybody comment on using multi tools for such applications? I'm
most interested in experiences (negative or positive) and hardware
recommendations.

Cheers.

D

On 19/02/18 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat.Â* Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes.Â* Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

Forget distributing 240V.

Thread the house with USB power connections.

/me runs, that way... ;-p




FWIW I'm aware of the use of these things in conjunction with an SDS
drill- not tried myself.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/ele...ers/cat6150002



--
Adrian C

On 19/02/2018 14:13, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 19/02/18 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat.Â* Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes.Â* Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

.... snipped

FWIW I'm aware of the use of these things in conjunction with an SDS
drill- not tried myself.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/ele...ers/cat6150002
IME the rectangular sinker works OK in soft block (but not in anything
hard) and the rotating thing works OK if the pilot hole is sound (but it
makes a lot of dust).
I'd be very interested in finding an easier way, but what I've been
doing is: draw the outline on the wall, drill a lot of holes to the
right depth (not just around the edge), use a bolster or SDS chisel to
cut out the material and square the edges, bu&&er about to get a flat
enough bottom, drill the fixing holes, put a splodge of drywall adhesive
at the back and sides, push the box in, fit the screws, fill the gaps
with more adhesive and finish-off with a filler.
(PS, don't forget the grommet!)

Vortex13 wrote:

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days

Cutting back box holes in brick is a bit "heavy duty" for a multitool,
you'd go through ££ in blades, I'd use a box-sinker on an SDS with
roto-stop.

In article ,
Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat. Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes. Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days, and am inclined to obtain one along
with suitable carbide blade/cutter tools. My instinct is mains/corded
and 300 Watts-ish.

Can anybody comment on using multi tools for such applications? I'm
most interested in experiences (negative or positive) and hardware
recommendations.

I've got 3 multi tools. Never even considered using them for this. I've
never seen blades for them that will cut masonry - at least at a sensible
speed.

Given I prefer to keep making good to a minimum, I tend to drill holes all
the way round with the SDS drill - then use its chisel to remove the rest.

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/02/18 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat.* Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes.* Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

Forget distributing 240V.

Thread the house with USB power connections.

/me runs, that way... ;-p

Neh, in a few years everything will be cordless, or should that be
wireless, so we won't need sockets.


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 19/02/2018 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat. Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes. Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days, and am inclined to obtain one along
with suitable carbide blade/cutter tools. My instinct is mains/corded
and 300 Watts-ish.

Can anybody comment on using multi tools for such applications? I'm most
interested in experiences (negative or positive) and hardware
recommendations.

Cheers.

D



Brick and plaster? No chance! These things are fine for cutting holes in
plasterboard when you have stud partitions - but no good for solid walls.

You need a decent SDS drill, followed by an SDS chisel. Even a box
sinker would struggle on brick, but is ok on block walls.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 14:04:50 +0000, Vortex13 wrote:

Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat. Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes. Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days, and am inclined to obtain one along
with suitable carbide blade/cutter tools. My instinct is mains/corded
and 300 Watts-ish.

Can anybody comment on using multi tools for such applications? I'm
most interested in experiences (negative or positive) and hardware
recommendations.

Cheers.

D

I've still got a yellow plastic doohickey which you screw to the wall and
then it acts as a drill guide for a masonry drill to drill lots of holes
in the right place.

Then smash out the remaining bits of brick with your weapon of choice.

Alloy version https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pattress-Wall-Socket-Template-
Electric/dp/B01E1LFU1M.

I used to use one because my freestyle hammer drilling is more dangerous
than effective.


Cheers



Dave R



--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

In article ,
David wrote:
I've still got a yellow plastic doohickey which you screw to the wall
and then it acts as a drill guide for a masonry drill to drill lots of
holes in the right place.

Is that really worth the bother over a pencil line? ;-)

--
*There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/02/2018 14:13, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 19/02/18 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat.Â* Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes.Â* Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

Forget distributing 240V.

Thread the house with USB power connections.

/me runs, that way... ;-p




FWIW I'm aware of the use of these things in conjunction with an SDS
drill- not tried myself.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/ele...ers/cat6150002

I have never found one to be of any use.

Stitch drilling and or SDS chisels are the only methods I have found
successful on hard brick. And even then you sometimes just have to bond
in the back box (old bonding and a bit of cement) as the brick collapses.


--


Adam

On 19/02/2018 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat.Â* Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes.Â* Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days, and am inclined to obtain one along
with suitable carbide blade/cutter tools.Â* My instinct is mains/corded
and 300 Watts-ish.

Can anybody comment on using multi tools for such applications?Â* I'm
most interested in experiences (negative or positive) and hardware
recommendations.



Possibly great for cutting holes in plasterboard stud walls but I'm not
sure that it would help with cutting socket backbox cut outs in
plaster/brick.
i) Non-of the blades claim to be suitable for brick
ii) The blades would only go in around an inch before the body of the
tool hits the wall.

I have one of these tools with various blades and it has got me out of
trouble or made the job easier on many occasion - sometimes abusing a
blade which can result in a costly small job. They are great for some
jobs but box sinking in brick is probably beyond their capability.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 19/02/2018 18:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
David wrote:
I've still got a yellow plastic doohickey which you screw to the wall
and then it acts as a drill guide for a masonry drill to drill lots of
holes in the right place.

Is that really worth the bother over a pencil line? ;-)


I can see the advantage if you have plaster applied in 1905 as in my
house. It has a hard surface but as soon as you drill into it it's
soft, sandy and crumbly beneath and the entry point of the hole gets
larger. I often have to install a wall plug and then repair the surface
with filler. Attempting to drill hole with a centre say, 10mm away would
be difficult because the surface is no longer flat or particularly
sound. A jig such as shown would guide the drill in for the next hole.
For a small job I would make my own drilling jig from a piece of scrap
plywood.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 19/02/2018 15:15, Andy Burns wrote:
Vortex13 wrote:

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days

Cutting back box holes in brick is a bit "heavy duty" for a multitool,
you'd go through ££ in blades, I'd use a box-sinker on an SDS with
roto-stop.

+1 for most bricks. OK into lightweight blocks. If you have a lot to do,
you can get "angle grinder" type tools with a connection for a vacuum
hose which keeps the dust down. For a full refurb, get a good visor and
dust mask and live with the dust.

On 19/02/2018 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat. Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes. Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days, and am inclined to obtain one along
with suitable carbide blade/cutter tools. My instinct is mains/corded
and 300 Watts-ish.

Can anybody comment on using multi tools for such applications? I'm
most interested in experiences (negative or positive) and hardware
recommendations.

About the only bit of this job they are well suited to is when you need
to cut a neat hole in a tiled surface. However, once through the tiles
you would switch to a SDS and / or wall chaser.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, 19 February 2018 18:42:06 UTC, ARW wrote:
Stitch drilling and or SDS chisels are the only methods I have found
successful on hard brick. And even then you sometimes just have to bond
in the back box (old bonding and a bit of cement) as the brick collapses.

I chuck the rubble back in mixed with a bit of PVA and multifinish when I find I've inadvertently knocked through to the next room.

Learnt the hard way not to use foam in such applications.

Owain

On 19/02/2018 20:10, wrote:
On Monday, 19 February 2018 18:42:06 UTC, ARW wrote:
Stitch drilling and or SDS chisels are the only methods I have found
successful on hard brick. And even then you sometimes just have to bond
in the back box (old bonding and a bit of cement) as the brick collapses.

I chuck the rubble back in mixed with a bit of PVA and multifinish when I find I've inadvertently knocked through to the next room.



That is just a chance to fit an extra socket in the other room:-)

Unless it is the bathroom or next doors bedroom:-(

I have done it. Those pesky single skinned terraced houses.

--
Adam

On 19/02/2018 20:33, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 14:04:50 -0000, Vortex13
wrote:

Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat.* Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes.* Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days, and am inclined to obtain one along
with suitable carbide blade/cutter tools.* My instinct is mains/corded
and 300 Watts-ish.

Can anybody comment on using multi tools for such applications?* I'm
most interested in experiences (negative or positive) and hardware
recommendations.

Cheers.

They're excellent.* The blades blunt quickly, but just push harder and
they will cut when blunt.* Keep going until the blade is worn away
completely!


Well we can forget that.


--
Adam

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 18:42:05 +0000
ARW wrote:

On 19/02/2018 14:13, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 19/02/18 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat.Â* Walls therefore are
plaster on masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double
sockets so will need to recess that number of steel back boxes.
Not something I have done for some years.....when I did I used an
angle grinder and it was horribly messy/dusty.

Forget distributing 240V.

Thread the house with USB power connections.

/me runs, that way... ;-p




FWIW I'm aware of the use of these things in conjunction with an
SDS drill- not tried myself.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/ele...ers/cat6150002

I have never found one to be of any use.

Stitch drilling and or SDS chisels are the only methods I have found
successful on hard brick. And even then you sometimes just have to
bond in the back box (old bonding and a bit of cement) as the brick
collapses.


+1

But I sometimes use a wall chaser to make the cuts for the box edges
and I have had some success in cutting through the plaster/render coat
with a multi tool when it positively, absolutely has to be neat - like
a back-to-back socket.

On 19/02/2018 20:45, Steve wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 18:42:05 +0000
ARW wrote:

On 19/02/2018 14:13, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 19/02/18 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat.Â* Walls therefore are
plaster on masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double
sockets so will need to recess that number of steel back boxes.
Not something I have done for some years.....when I did I used an
angle grinder and it was horribly messy/dusty.

Forget distributing 240V.

Thread the house with USB power connections.

/me runs, that way... ;-p




FWIW I'm aware of the use of these things in conjunction with an
SDS drill- not tried myself.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/ele...ers/cat6150002

I have never found one to be of any use.

Stitch drilling and or SDS chisels are the only methods I have found
successful on hard brick. And even then you sometimes just have to
bond in the back box (old bonding and a bit of cement) as the brick
collapses.


+1

But I sometimes use a wall chaser to make the cuts for the box edges
and I have had some success in cutting through the plaster/render coat
with a multi tool when it positively, absolutely has to be neat - like
a back-to-back socket.


A wall chaser is two angle grinder blades on one tool:-)

My apologies to South Yorkshire Fire and Rescue for using one at a
hospital that they cover when the fire alarm goes off. Hope you enjoyed
the £75 I paid for your attendance.


--
Adam

On 19/02/2018 20:56, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 20:41:35 -0000, ARW
wrote:

On 19/02/2018 20:33, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 14:04:50 -0000, Vortex13
wrote:

Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat.* Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes.* Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days, and am inclined to obtain one along
with suitable carbide blade/cutter tools.* My instinct is mains/corded
and 300 Watts-ish.

Can anybody comment on using multi tools for such applications?* I'm
most interested in experiences (negative or positive) and hardware
recommendations.

Cheers.

They're excellent.* The blades blunt quickly, but just push harder and
they will cut when blunt.* Keep going until the blade is worn away
completely!


Well we can forget that.

Why?


Because you are talking ********.

--
Adam

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 20:56:27 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

They're excellent. The blades blunt quickly, but just push harder and
they will cut when blunt. Keep going until the blade is worn away
completely!


Well we can forget that.

Why?

Simple: because you are a PROVEN idiot!

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: 20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars

--
JoeyDee to Birdbrain
"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You're just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments."
MID: l-september.org

--
Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson Sword" LOL):
"He's just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be."
MID:

--
asking Birdbrain:
"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?"
MID:

--
Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now "James
Wilkinson" LOL):
"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It's from last
month some time. You're like a dog who's just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it."
MID:

alan_m wrote:

Possibly great for cutting holes in plasterboard stud walls but I'm not
sure that it would help with cutting socket backbox cut outs in
plaster/brick.

I have used the multitool, with a gammy old blade, to cut 1/4" wide
chases into the plaster from ceiling down to door recesses for alarm
contact wiring.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
alan_m wrote:

Possibly great for cutting holes in plasterboard stud walls but I'm not
sure that it would help with cutting socket backbox cut outs in
plaster/brick.

I have used the multitool, with a gammy old blade, to cut 1/4" wide
chases into the plaster from ceiling down to door recesses for alarm
contact wiring.

It's not usually cutting the plaster that's difficult, but the brick
underneath. To just chase into plaster a decent chisel is usually enough.

--
*Frankly, scallop, I don't give a clam

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
A multitool will cut without the sharp bits on the blade. The heat
generated and the motion made will destroy what's in it's path.

Not really surprising you live in a house made out of ticky-tacky.

--
*Welcome to **** Creek - sorry, we're out of paddles*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 14:04:50 +0000
Vortex13 wrote:

Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat. Walls therefore are plaster
on masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so
will need to recess that number of steel back boxes. Not something I
have done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and
it was horribly messy/dusty.

A scutch hammer (or hammer and scutch chisel) or a masonry drill
(followed by a cold chisel) will do just fine.

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs'
danglies for cutting neat holes these days, and am inclined to obtain
one along with suitable carbide blade/cutter tools. My instinct is
mains/corded and 300 Watts-ish.

Can anybody comment on using multi tools for such applications? I'm
most interested in experiences (negative or positive) and hardware
recommendations.

These tools are designed to cut sheet material, not masonry.

In article 20180219233419.3ff1a1f9@Mars,
Rob Morley wrote:
A scutch hammer (or hammer and scutch chisel) or a masonry drill
(followed by a cold chisel) will do just fine.

A lightweight SDS with roto stop and chisel even easier.

But don't think there's any easy way that doesn't make a lot of dust.

In future, make sure you buy a house with partition walls. ;-)

--
*The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 23:06:05 -0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
A multitool will cut without the sharp bits on the blade. The heat
generated and the motion made will destroy what's in it's path.

Not really surprising you live in a house made out of ticky-tacky.

The sharp pointy bits on a blade on a multitool last for about 10
seconds. Do you really replace it that often?

Best to use a decent tenon saw to cut the bricks with, then. And a nice
sharp wood chisel to get the corners square.

--
*Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's not usually cutting the plaster that's difficult, but the brick
underneath. To just chase into plaster a decent chisel is usually enough.

Not saying it's difficult to chisel it, but easy to get a narrower slit
and cleaner edges with the multi-tool, that's all ...

On 19/02/2018 15:06, wrote:
On 19/02/2018 14:13, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 19/02/18 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat. Walls therefore are plaster
on masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so
will need to recess that number of steel back boxes. Not something I
have done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and
it was horribly messy/dusty.

... snipped

FWIW I'm aware of the use of these things in conjunction with an SDS
drill- not tried myself.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/ele...ers/cat6150002
IME the rectangular sinker works OK in soft block (but not in anything
hard) and the rotating thing works OK if the pilot hole is sound (but it
makes a lot of dust).

I'd be very interested in finding an easier way, but what I've been
doing is: draw the outline on the wall, drill a lot of holes to the

The technique that I found works quite well is:

Draw outline on wall around the backbox.

Set a 20mm wide chisel in the SDS, and mark the box depth on it with a
wrap of insulating tape.

Hold the drill perpendicular to the wall, and place the chisel just
outside the line, then sink it to the depth set by the tape. Continue
all round the periphery of the box until you have a channel to the right
depth round the edges.

Swap the chisel for a 40mm bit. Working at an angle about a quarter of
the way across the double socket width (or in the middle of a single),
chisel out and across toward your existing cut. Thus taking out the
edges of the infill. Repeat - moving in toward the centre, until you now
have a box hole that is full depth at the outside edges, and has a
"hump" in the middle.

Now work on the hump - using the die chisel to "plane" off the top of
it. Repeat until its flat enough across the width of the box. Test fit
the box as you go.

Once done, you can in many cases just drill screw holes for the fixing
screws. If there is too much "irregularity", then mix up so (preferably
old) bonding plaster, slap it in the back of the hole, and bed the box
into it.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/02/2018 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat. Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes. Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days, and am inclined to obtain one along
with suitable carbide blade/cutter tools. My instinct is mains/corded
and 300 Watts-ish.

Can anybody comment on using multi tools for such applications? I'm
most interested in experiences (negative or positive) and hardware
recommendations.

Cheers.

D



OP pollowing up thanks for the comments.

I was personally sceptical about cutting brick and that seems to be
confirmed.

I'm going to get a multitool regardless, because there are plenty of
other applications (such as underfloor access) where it will be just the
job. I will however obtain a so-called "carbide" cutter to check it's
capability out......you never know.....

In article ,
Vortex13 wrote:
I'm going to get a multitool regardless, because there are plenty of
other applications (such as underfloor access) where it will be just the
job. I will however obtain a so-called "carbide" cutter to check it's
capability out......you never know.....

I've never seen one. I do have tools which are more akin to a sander for
hard materials. But would cut very slowly indeed.

Thing with carbide is it's very brittle. Fine for tipping a circular saw
where the loading is uniform. Not sure how well it would work on a hand
held small saw like this.

Multi tools certainly have their uses. Which tend to be on the odd
occasion where more traditional power tools can't cope. But are in no way
a better replacement for those for everything.

I base this on having pretty well all types of saws, etc. And how often I
go for the multi-tool.

--
*Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 10:14:10 UTC, Vortex13 wrote:
On 19/02/2018 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat. Walls therefore are plaster on
masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so will
need to recess that number of steel back boxes. Not something I have
done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and it was
horribly messy/dusty.

I have been advised that a so called "multi tool" is the dogs' danglies
for cutting neat holes these days, and am inclined to obtain one along
with suitable carbide blade/cutter tools. My instinct is mains/corded
and 300 Watts-ish.

Can anybody comment on using multi tools for such applications? I'm
most interested in experiences (negative or positive) and hardware
recommendations.

Cheers.

D



OP pollowing up thanks for the comments.

I was personally sceptical about cutting brick and that seems to be
confirmed.

I'm going to get a multitool regardless, because there are plenty of
other applications (such as underfloor access) where it will be just the
job. I will however obtain a so-called "carbide" cutter to check it's
capability out......you never know.....

It'll do what an angle grinder does but way slower/gentler. So dust won't fly but slow progress.

I find a hoover nozzle close to a grinder catches almost all of it


NT

Dave Plowman wrote:

Vortex13 wrote:

I will however obtain a so-called "carbide" cutter

I've never seen one.

There are various carbide and diamond blades, e.g.

http://www.antlerblades.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=carbide

http://www.antlerblades.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=diamond

Fine for a bit of tile shaping, but still not for chopping out half a brick.

On 20/02/2018 09:19, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/02/2018 15:06, wrote:
On 19/02/2018 14:13, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 19/02/18 14:04, Vortex13 wrote:
Hello,

I am about to refurbish a 1960's flat.Â* Walls therefore are plaster
on masonry (brick) and I intend to install 8 "new" double sockets so
will need to recess that number of steel back boxes.Â* Not something I
have done for some years.....when I did I used an angle grinder and
it was horribly messy/dusty.

... snipped

FWIW I'm aware of the use of these things in conjunction with an SDS
drill- not tried myself.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/ele...ers/cat6150002
IME the rectangular sinker works OK in soft block (but not in anything
hard) and the rotating thing works OK if the pilot hole is sound (but it
makes a lot of dust).

I'd be very interested in finding an easier way, but what I've been
doing is: draw the outline on the wall, drill a lot of holes to the

The technique that I found works quite well is:

Draw outline on wall around the backbox.

Set a 20mm wide chisel in the SDS, and mark the box depth on it with a
wrap of insulating tape.

Hold the drill perpendicular to the wall, and place the chisel just
outside the line, then sink it to the depth set by the tape. Continue
all round the periphery of the box until you have a channel to the right
depth round the edges.

Swap the chisel for a 40mm bit. Working at an angle about a quarter of
the way across the double socket width (or in the middle of a single),
chisel out and across toward your existing cut. Thus taking out the
edges of the infill. Repeat - moving in toward the centre, until you now
have a box hole that is full depth at the outside edges, and has a
"hump" in the middle.

Now work on the hump - using the die chisel to "plane" off the top of
it. Repeat until its flat enough across the width of the box. Test fit
the box as you go.

Once done, you can in many cases just drill screw holes for the fixing
screws. If there is too much "irregularity", then mix up so (preferably
old) bonding plaster, slap it in the back of the hole, and bed the box
into it.



I've recently bought a very wide SDS chisel so I'll give that a go next
time. We have lime plaster over solid (and I mean SOLID) concrete blocks
from the 1930s. It's a bit of a battle to get the hump flat without
going too deep in places so having a couple of holes drilled to depth
has been a useful guide. Despite this there's always somewhere sticking
up, and it can be hard to find.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Vortex13 wrote:

I will however obtain a so-called "carbide" cutter

I've never seen one.

There are various carbide and diamond blades, e.g.

http://www.antlerblades.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=carbide

http://www.antlerblades.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=diamond

Fine for a bit of tile shaping, but still not for chopping out half a
brick.

Yes- that's the sort of thing I've got here. But would be painfully slow
cutting brick and would soon overheat. Not sure they'd cut deep enough
either.

--
*I did a theatrical performance about puns. It was a play on words.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/02/2018 12:59, wrote:
On 20/02/2018 09:19, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/02/2018 15:06, wrote:

The technique that I found works quite well is:

Draw outline on wall around the backbox.

Set a 20mm wide chisel in the SDS, and mark the box depth on it with a
wrap of insulating tape.

Hold the drill perpendicular to the wall, and place the chisel just
outside the line, then sink it to the depth set by the tape. Continue
all round the periphery of the box until you have a channel to the
right depth round the edges.

Swap the chisel for a 40mm bit. Working at an angle about a quarter of
the way across the double socket width (or in the middle of a single),
chisel out and across toward your existing cut. Thus taking out the
edges of the infill. Repeat - moving in toward the centre, until you
now have a box hole that is full depth at the outside edges, and has a
"hump" in the middle.

Now work on the hump - using the die chisel to "plane" off the top of
it. Repeat until its flat enough across the width of the box. Test fit
the box as you go.

Once done, you can in many cases just drill screw holes for the fixing
screws. If there is too much "irregularity", then mix up so
(preferably old) bonding plaster, slap it in the back of the hole, and
bed the box into it.



I've recently bought a very wide SDS chisel so I'll give that a go next
time. We have lime plaster over solid (and I mean SOLID) concrete blocks
from the 1930s. It's a bit of a battle to get the hump flat without
going too deep in places so having a couple of holes drilled to depth
has been a useful guide. Despite this there's always somewhere sticking
up, and it can be hard to find.

There is a knack with the wider chisel where if you hold it at about a
45 degree angle, you can get it to skip along the wall shaving off a bit
as it goes rather than digging in. It seems (on hard brick anyway) quite
effective at getting a flat bottom to the hole.


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 19/02/2018 23:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article 20180219233419.3ff1a1f9@Mars,
Rob Morley wrote:
A scutch hammer (or hammer and scutch chisel) or a masonry drill
(followed by a cold chisel) will do just fine.

A lightweight SDS with roto stop and chisel even easier.

You can get SDS scutch chisels in various widths.

Long before I purchased a SDS drill and associated chisels I used a
scutch chisel and lump hammer. The points on the chisel bit went through
hard brick a lot easier than when using a flat blade cold chisel.

A scutch chisel bit in a sds drill may actually work better than some of
the wider SDS chisels as all the force from the hammer is concentrated
on 4/6 narrow points


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 20/02/2018 09:19, John Rumm wrote:

screws. If there is too much "irregularity", then mix up so (preferably
old) bonding plaster, slap it in the back of the hole, and bed the box
into it.

A trick I learnt some time back. Old plaster is no good for plastering
but it goes off in minutes so if you mix it quickly in an recycled
yogurt pot apply it to the back of the hole and then bed in the back-box
it will remain firmly in place within 5 minutes.

However it's not worth keeping your left over half sack of plaster just
in case it comes useful in the year to come.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 20/02/2018 08:21, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's not usually cutting the plaster that's difficult, but the brick
underneath. To just chase into plaster a decent chisel is usually enough.

Not saying it's difficult to chisel it, but easy to get a narrower slit
and cleaner edges with the multi-tool, that's all ...


+1. Same for dot and dab walls where you have to cross the dab. I
suppose I could use a pad saw why would I?

--
Adam

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
A scutch chisel bit in a sds drill may actually work better than some of
the wider SDS chisels as all the force from the hammer is concentrated
on 4/6 narrow points

Could well be. The problem with any chisel is the wider it is the harder
the work. And SDS don't have unlimited power - especially a lightweight
one more suited to this sort of job.

--
*Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.