On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:22:34 +0000, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
wrote:

snip

Many moons ago, when I was in the TV trade, customers used to get
around the problem using a localised networking system.

The source node was the family 13A plug, then from this they would
have the TV, Video, Table lamp and dates permitting, Xmas tree lights.

Sensitive souls they were, they would be on the phone within seconds
of pulling away from their door, moaning about the admonishment theyd
been given and the fact that only the TV was re connected to the
family plug.

;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Despite my best efforts at the time (and some last minute changes) we
ended up with not quite enough.

I remember being a guide to how many sockets and where they should be
in each room at the time I wired this place but I'm guessing those
numbers have all gone up nowdays?

When I bought this house, the BS required it to be re-wired as part of the
conditions. As they did in those days, to protect their investment. Old
wiring was a mixture of rubber and lead, with an ancient fusebox.

So in precisely one week of holidays, I did a basic re-wire. Just one
central light and a couple of sockets per room - but doing it in such a
way as to make it as easy as possible to extend at a later date.

Once living in the house and deciding on room layout etc, I re-wired each
one before decorating. Saves the nonsense of having sockets behind
furniture or whatever. Or light switches where it is easiest for a sparks
to put them.

I'd installed a separate ring for the kitchen. When doing the major
alterations to that, I installed sockets along the worktops with about an
equal socket/gap ratio. On the principle you can never have too many, and
the cost being a small proportion of the overall kitchen.

--
*How do they get the deer to cross at that yellow road sign?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:49:12 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

So in precisely one week of holidays, I did a basic re-wire. Just one
central light and a couple of sockets per room - but doing it in such a
way as to make it as easy as possible to extend at a later date.

I did similar.

Once living in the house and deciding on room layout etc, I re-wired each
one before decorating. Saves the nonsense of having sockets behind
furniture or whatever. Or light switches where it is easiest for a sparks
to put them.

Quite.

We went to the BIL's new (to him) house the other day and I found
myself floundering for the pull cord for the light switch in the
bathroom because it was a fair way into the room! ;-(

I'd installed a separate ring for the kitchen.

Same here.

When doing the major
alterations to that, I installed sockets along the worktops with about an
equal socket/gap ratio. On the principle you can never have too many, and
the cost being a small proportion of the overall kitchen.

Our 3 doubles on the worktop are 700mm apart but the worktop is only
just under 3m long. ;-)

I think if I was to fit some more they would be in the middle, to deal
with the things that tend to come and go?

Cheers, T i m

Tim Watts wrote:

On 12/02/18 12:33, Roger Hayter wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 23:09:22 +0000, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

I dont think an smps is deliberately referenced to the mains. Without a
ground reference, most SMPS provide a slight tingle, capacitive pickup I
presume.

boggle

It's remarkable how small a current people (and cows) can feel. And
there is no way to make it zero. Otherwise we wouldn't have wireless.



?

Wireless is the transmission of photons, not charged particles.

When you want to transmit a wireless signal, do you go to your tobacco
tin full of dehydrated photons, or do you start moving charged particles
through resonant bits of hardware?[1] Mutatis mutandis, reception.

[1] After fifty plus years of desultory reading I still can't make any
sense of simple physical models of capacitor "current". But radio
waves are still possible, as is leakage of AC via capacitance.


--

Roger Hayter

On Monday, 12 February 2018 10:56:59 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
Other end, two doubles. Toaster, coffee machine, food mixer, radio/CD
player, IP phone. Generally OK, but can be a problem at times.

Put the IP phone on POE and/or use a POE to USB adapter for charging iThings.

I think I've got 10 above-worktop / general kitchen double sockets and probably another 6 below-worktop ones.

Owain

On 12/02/18 15:34, Roger Hayter wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

On 12/02/18 12:33, Roger Hayter wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 23:09:22 +0000, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

I dont think an smps is deliberately referenced to the mains. Without a
ground reference, most SMPS provide a slight tingle, capacitive pickup I
presume.

boggle

It's remarkable how small a current people (and cows) can feel. And
there is no way to make it zero. Otherwise we wouldn't have wireless.



?

Wireless is the transmission of photons, not charged particles.

When you want to transmit a wireless signal, do you go to your tobacco
tin full of dehydrated photons, or do you start moving charged particles
through resonant bits of hardware?[1] Mutatis mutandis, reception.

Yes - but I'm not sure how this relates to "what people and cows can
feel"? Are they sticking their fingers (or hooves) into the radio?


[1] After fifty plus years of desultory reading I still can't make any
sense of simple physical models of capacitor "current". But radio
waves are still possible, as is leakage of AC via capacitance.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 08:24:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Monday, 12 February 2018 10:56:59 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
Other end, two doubles. Toaster, coffee machine, food mixer, radio/CD
player, IP phone. Generally OK, but can be a problem at times.

Put the IP phone on POE and/or use a POE to USB adapter for charging iThings.

I think I've got 10 above-worktop / general kitchen double sockets and probably another 6 below-worktop ones.

If I had 10 on my main worktop they would be touching each other. ;-)

However, if you have a large / square kitchen ...

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 09:30:55 +0000, GB wrote:

I swear by MK, but they are literally 4 times the price of the ones you
linked to.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-13a-2-...hite/3905g#_=p

Just read some of the non-stellar reviews for those!

Thanks,
apologies for the recommendation, but as I said I have
found everything I fitted that MK produced of top quality.

Same here. Only after that did I read the reviews. It sounds like they
are buying them in.

A couple or so years ago, on here, there was a v. brief exchange re. SF's MK
being made to a price. Doesn't meen that more expensive ones from elsewhere
would be any better, of course.
BTW, ISTR seeing some articles on cheap USB leads not only being risky but
also capable of wrecking equipment. 3.1 and C can be the worst due to the
power. Also some C aren't to standard on wiring.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Monday, 12 February 2018 17:21:24 UTC, T i m wrote:
If I had 10 on my main worktop they would be touching each other. ;-)

When I say "above worktop" I mean "above the worktop will go when I get some".

However, if you have a large / square kitchen ...

Well, room with sink and cooker; Robert Carrier might find it a bit limiting.

Owain

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 10:29:18 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Monday, 12 February 2018 17:21:24 UTC, T i m wrote:
If I had 10 on my main worktop they would be touching each other. ;-)

When I say "above worktop" I mean "above the worktop will go when I get some".

Ah, a roundtuit. ;-)

However, if you have a large / square kitchen ...

Well, room with sink and cooker; Robert Carrier might find it a bit limiting.

Our 'galley style' kitchen is just a kitchen (not a kitchen - diner
etc) and is actually pretty efficient *because* it's 'compact' and
follows the 'Kitchen work triangle' pretty closely.

That's quite important to me and because I do much of the cooking, I
designed and installed it that way. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Tim Watts wrote:

On 12/02/18 15:34, Roger Hayter wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

On 12/02/18 12:33, Roger Hayter wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 23:09:22 +0000, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

I dont think an smps is deliberately referenced to the mains. Without a
ground reference, most SMPS provide a slight tingle, capacitive pickup I
presume.

boggle

It's remarkable how small a current people (and cows) can feel. And
there is no way to make it zero. Otherwise we wouldn't have wireless.



?

Wireless is the transmission of photons, not charged particles.

When you want to transmit a wireless signal, do you go to your tobacco
tin full of dehydrated photons, or do you start moving charged particles
through resonant bits of hardware?[1] Mutatis mutandis, reception.

Yes - but I'm not sure how this relates to "what people and cows can
feel"? Are they sticking their fingers (or hooves) into the radio?

The person I was replying to was apparently boggling at the idea of
palpable ac felt via good quality, standards compliant insulators. I
was merely pointing out that capacitative current was part of the
mystery of electomagnetic theory.




[1] After fifty plus years of desultory reading I still can't make any
sense of simple physical models of capacitor "current". But radio
waves are still possible, as is leakage of AC via capacitance.




--

Roger Hayter

On 2018-02-11 19:07, Tim Watts wrote:
On 11/02/18 18:05, soup wrote:
I fitted some of these on the living room wiring.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/bg-13a-2-...er-white/8534f

Screwfix ones shown as an example as I can't remember what ones I
actually fitted

Just lately one packed up all together and just today one of them feels
as if one of the USB sockets has physically given up the ghost.

Â*I suspect these have broken as they were cheap is there any
recommendation on type to get for longevity.
Edinburgh Scotland region if applicable.

Yeah - don't bother, replace with a decent socket, and buy a slimline
plugtop USB charger.

Apart from what you found, the USB charging standards improve every
couple of years and any charging socket will be obsolete in terms of
providing the max charging current soon enough.

It's not just the charging current. USB-C supports multiple charging
voltages. Apple's 61 W power supply for the Macbook Pro provides
5 V, 9 V and 20.3 V over USB-C so these 5 V integrated socket outlets
seem to be becoming popular just as USB is moving away from a single
5 V standard.



--
Graham Nye
news(a)thenyes.org.uk

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:03:18 +0000, T i m wrote:

On 12 Feb 2018 10:56:55 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 00:46:10 +0000, T i m wrote:

You surely don't have so few sockets in your kitchen you have to
unplug things? On a DIY group?

In our Victorian house, 'galley kitchen' ... on the main (full length)
work top, we have three doubles. The one on the left has the microwave
and toaster, the one in the middle has the kettle and can opener, the
one on the right the hands free phone and TV. Underneath the worktop
is another double for the fridge and freezer.

Despite my best efforts at the time (and some last minute changes) we
ended up with not quite enough.

I remember being a guide to how many sockets and where they should be in
each room at the time I wired this place but I'm guessing those numbers
have all gone up nowdays?

I added an extra double at the last moment, next to an existing one. Even
managed to get it actually in the ring.

At one end, one double socket for microwave oven, slow cooker and chip
pan. That works OK.

I'm guessing the microwave stays in all the time and the other two share
on demand?

Mostly. Occasionally the sous vide bath takes over for hours.

Other end, two doubles. Toaster, coffee machine, food mixer, radio/CD
player, IP phone.

;-)

Generally OK, but can be a problem at times.

The biggest inconvenience to us can be flicking the kettle on and not
noticing it's been unplugged by daughter for her phone, JBL speakers or
portable battery.

Ours has a sticker on the plug. Put there so that elderly M-I-L wouldn't
unplug it 'for safety'. She died from dementia.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 08:24:33 -0800, spuorgelgoog wrote:

On Monday, 12 February 2018 10:56:59 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
Other end, two doubles. Toaster, coffee machine, food mixer, radio/CD
player, IP phone. Generally OK, but can be a problem at times.

Put the IP phone on POE and/or use a POE to USB adapter for charging
iThings.

I would, but that model doesn't do POE. It's a smaller wall mounted one -
the other nine are mostly POE-capable.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 13/02/18 21:06, Graham Nye wrote:

It's not just the charging current. USB-C supports multiple charging
voltages. Apple's 61 W power supply for the Macbook Pro provides
5 V, 9 V and 20.3 V over USB-C so these 5 V integrated socket outlets
seem to be becoming popular just as USB is moving away from a single
5 V standard.


I rest my case, m'lud!

Essentially whatever you do will be obsolete to some degree within 2 years.

Whereas something like:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/q/dp/B01HGQSITA

can be upgraded, takes little space, doesn't even cost a socket and can
be turned off ( or unplugged) when not in use.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 12:44:58 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

On 13/02/18 21:06, Graham Nye wrote:

It's not just the charging current. USB-C supports multiple charging
voltages. Apple's 61 W power supply for the Macbook Pro provides 5 V, 9
V and 20.3 V over USB-C so these 5 V integrated socket outlets seem to
be becoming popular just as USB is moving away from a single 5 V
standard.


I rest my case, m'lud!

Essentially whatever you do will be obsolete to some degree within 2
years.

Whereas something like:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/q/dp/B01HGQSITA

can be upgraded, takes little space, doesn't even cost a socket and can
be turned off ( or unplugged) when not in use.

Conceptually, a nice idea. One can only hope that the 6 quid over-spend
on a 3 way half metre extension cord and a couple of 1.2A USB wallwarts
from Poundland is a genuine reflection of the extra costs involved in
manufacturing what amounts to a "Single way socket adapter" capable of
safely handling the full 13A load rating of the socket outlet it is
intended to be plugged into.

--
Johnny B Good

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Essentially whatever you do will be obsolete to some degree within 2 years.

Then make sure the things you buy use the standard 5v? ;-)

It's not the PS which is obsolete. It's makers moving goalposts to try and
make you buy something new extra yet again.

If Apple or whoever wish to use a non standard charger, why not invent a
new connector too? They obviously not very upset about it being
standardised.

--
*I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/02/18 13:59, Johnny B Good wrote:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/q/dp/B01HGQSITA

can be upgraded, takes little space, doesn't even cost a socket and can
be turned off ( or unplugged) when not in use.

Conceptually, a nice idea. One can only hope that the 6 quid over-spend
on a 3 way half metre extension cord and a couple of 1.2A USB wallwarts
from Poundland is a genuine reflection of the extra costs involved in
manufacturing what amounts to a "Single way socket adapter" capable of
safely handling the full 13A load rating of the socket outlet it is
intended to be plugged into.



Who is going to want to do that, to save £6, when they started with the
premise of "Sockets with integrated USB"?

On 14/02/18 14:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Essentially whatever you do will be obsolete to some degree within 2 years.

Then make sure the things you buy use the standard 5v? ;-)

It's not the PS which is obsolete. It's makers moving goalposts to try and
make you buy something new extra yet again.

If Apple or whoever wish to use a non standard charger, why not invent a
new connector too? They obviously not very upset about it being
standardised.


Well, you can, if you never want to use new things and/or enjoy slow
charging.

I'm starting from the premise people might actually want a practical
solution that can evolve as all tech does ;-) The one true standard in
all of this is 230-240VAC 50Hz - so it's probably the best place to draw
the demarcation point. 5V looked solid for a while, but with the caveats
the current kept jumping.

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 14/02/18 14:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Essentially whatever you do will be obsolete to some degree within 2
years.

Then make sure the things you buy use the standard 5v? ;-)

It's not the PS which is obsolete. It's makers moving goalposts to try
and make you buy something new extra yet again.

If Apple or whoever wish to use a non standard charger, why not invent
a new connector too? They obviously got very upset about it being
standardised.


Well, you can, if you never want to use new things and/or enjoy slow
charging.

I usually charge things overnight. Carry a spare battery if it is likely
to go flat 'in the field' Only things I really want fast charging on are
power tools. Perhaps an electric car.

I'm starting from the premise people might actually want a practical
solution that can evolve as all tech does ;-) The one true standard in
all of this is 230-240VAC 50Hz - so it's probably the best place to draw
the demarcation point. 5V looked solid for a while, but with the caveats
the current kept jumping.

At some time there will be a limit on what the connector will handle if
they keep up upping the watts going through it.

--
*If a mute swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 15:01:31 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

On 14/02/18 13:59, Johnny B Good wrote:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/q/dp/B01HGQSITA

can be upgraded, takes little space, doesn't even cost a socket and
can be turned off ( or unplugged) when not in use.

Conceptually, a nice idea. One can only hope that the 6 quid
over-spend
on a 3 way half metre extension cord and a couple of 1.2A USB wallwarts
from Poundland is a genuine reflection of the extra costs involved in
manufacturing what amounts to a "Single way socket adapter" capable of
safely handling the full 13A load rating of the socket outlet it is
intended to be plugged into.



Who is going to want to do that, to save £6, when they started with the
premise of "Sockets with integrated USB"?

Well, if you're prepared as a DIYer, to spend that much on a plug-in
'socket converter', you might as well buy a dual gang mains socket
faceplate with built-in USB ports[1] in Home Bargains for your £9.99
spend.

I noticed them just yesterday and they appeared to be rather better made
than the typical examples reviewed by Big Clive. I was rather impressed
by the fact that there were no exposed USB circuit boards or wiring which
could be damaged by careless handling during installation into a back-box.

One can only assume that, if such care and attention to these basic
safety measures has been applied to the socket, the same level of quality
control will have been applied to the smpsu circuitry that's been
rendered inaccessible to all bar the most kack handed of DIY enthusiast.

In any case, if there's any doubt about this, it's fairly easy to wire
up a chopped off 3 core appliance cord to the socket terminals in order
to test with either an energy consumption meter that can read down to one
tenth of a watt[2] or else connect a test meter in series with the live
wire to measure the AC milliamps current drawn by the USB module, both on
and off load. The off-load idling consumption figure is a reasonable
indicator of the efficiency of such SMPSUs and their likelihood to blow
their safety fuse or, worse still, burst into flames.

[1] If I remember rightly, one port had a 1A rating and the other a 2.1A
rating, clearly marked.

[2] The cheap (10 quid) plug in energy monitors sold by Maplin provide
reasonably accurate sub 1 watt readings compared to my trusty Metrawatt
analogue watt meter. However, this leaves you guessing a little as to by
how much a zero reading is an under-reading of say a a 0.07 to 0.14 watt
load. At least with the analogue meter's mirror backed scale and close
scrutiny with a jewellers loupe to estimate such low readings, I can
interpolate down to just 50mW which is a half pointer's width movement
when *unplugging* either of the two Poundland USB wallwarts. Plugging in
the wallwart kicks the pointer to about the 5W mark on the 100W scale
(calibration marks every two watts) due to the smoothing capacitor inrush
current.

Obviously if you don't have such an analogue meter (who else does, btw?)
and you're planning on fitting more than just one of these dual gang
sockets, you can wire the whole lot in parallel to your test cord and
divide the resulting plug-in energy monitor reading by the number of
sockets you've wired up. This test should assure you that the annual
energy cost per socket will amount to just a few pennies a year.

This no load, idle demand testing is of interest in part because of the
impact of leaving them permanently plugged in on the annual electricity
bill (another way of expressing their carbon footprint in a more
meaningful way to most consumers) but also as a guide to their efficiency
- the early smpsu usb wallwarts used to take around 250mW or more idle
consumption and a lot of those 5/12v power bricks for external hard
drives typically a couple of watts and ditto for those 12v wallwarts
supplied with document scanners and similar peripherals.

Some of the earlier high idle efficiency wallwarts cheated by pulsing
the chopper circuit that maintained the 350vdc charge on the smoothing
cap but the current crop don't appear to be using this 'economy trick' to
keep the average idle consumption down, electing instead to just simply
be 'damned bloody efficient' at idling. Observation with an analogue
meter (watt or current) over a short period of time will reveal such
behaviour, a digital energy monitor less so.

The only major concern over efficiency at full load centres on the
heating stress on components in a tiny unvented smpsu rather than the
slight extra cost of electricity when your phone or whatever *is*
actually drawing power to charge or energise it.

If you're going to test this with a 5 or 10 watt rated 5 ohm resistor or
two expect to see an efficiency of 80% or better (eg 6.2 to 5.5 watts
mains input when driving a 5 ohm load with a 1A rated USB PSU). An
improvement from 80 to 90 percent efficiency is hardly going to impact
your electricity costs but the halving of wasted energy within the
components of a SMPSU will improve its reliability considerably, hence
the importance of the full load efficiency rating.

Since there's little you can about this, other than to choose a better
design where they've properly allowed for the heat generated by a 3KW jug
kettle load current flowing through the 13A plug/socket contacts as well
as getting their calculations right with regard to the various
temperature gradients between the solid state devices (typical max
junction temperature rating of 125 deg C) used within the smpsu and the
external environment, you're left with little choice but to rely on the
warranty and to trust that the manufacturer knew what he was doing when
he designed (and hopefully tested) the product.

--
Johnny B Good

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 16:36:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 14/02/18 14:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Essentially whatever you do will be obsolete to some degree within 2
years.

Then make sure the things you buy use the standard 5v? ;-)

It's not the PS which is obsolete. It's makers moving goalposts to try
and make you buy something new extra yet again.

If Apple or whoever wish to use a non standard charger, why not invent
a new connector too? They obviously got very upset about it being
standardised.


Well, you can, if you never want to use new things and/or enjoy slow
charging.

I usually charge things overnight. Carry a spare battery if it is likely
to go flat 'in the field' Only things I really want fast charging on are
power tools. Perhaps an electric car.

I'm starting from the premise people might actually want a practical
solution that can evolve as all tech does ;-) The one true standard in
all of this is 230-240VAC 50Hz - so it's probably the best place to draw
the demarcation point. 5V looked solid for a while, but with the caveats
the current kept jumping.

At some time there will be a limit on what the connector will handle if
they keep up upping the watts going through it.

+1

Cheers, T i m

On 14/02/18 17:54, Johnny B Good wrote:
Who is going to want to do that, to save £6, when they started with the
premise of "Sockets with integrated USB"?

Well, if you're prepared as a DIYer, to spend that much on a plug-in
'socket converter', you might as well buy a dual gang mains socket
faceplate with built-in USB ports[1] in Home Bargains for your £9.99
spend.


I noticed them just yesterday and they appeared to be rather better made
than the typical examples reviewed by Big Clive. I was rather impressed
by the fact that there were no exposed USB circuit boards or wiring which
could be damaged by careless handling during installation into a back-box.

One can only assume that, if such care and attention to these basic
safety measures has been applied to the socket, the same level of quality
control will have been applied to the smpsu circuitry that's been
rendered inaccessible to all bar the most kack handed of DIY enthusiast.


That's all very nice - but I stand by my thinking. It's the same
thinking that means I try to fit LED lamps to some sort of standard
socketed luminere and to avoid sealed units in all but the most trivial
cases.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 14/02/18 14:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Essentially whatever you do will be obsolete to some degree within 2
years.

Then make sure the things you buy use the standard 5v? ;-)

It's not the PS which is obsolete. It's makers moving goalposts to try
and make you buy something new extra yet again.

If Apple or whoever wish to use a non standard charger, why not invent
a new connector too? They obviously got very upset about it being
standardised.


Well, you can, if you never want to use new things and/or enjoy slow
charging.

I usually charge things overnight. Carry a spare battery if it is likely
to go flat 'in the field' Only things I really want fast charging on are
power tools. Perhaps an electric car.

I'm starting from the premise people might actually want a practical
solution that can evolve as all tech does ;-) The one true standard in
all of this is 230-240VAC 50Hz - so it's probably the best place to draw
the demarcation point. 5V looked solid for a while, but with the caveats
the current kept jumping.

At some time there will be a limit on what the connector will handle if
they keep up upping the watts going through it.

Up to a certain voltage governed by safety as much as the connector
rating it is only current that is going to be limiting. I think the
variable voltage on a standard charging connector is a brilliant idea.
My worry is more about the mechanical longevity of the the usbc
connector, we shall see over the next few years.

--

Roger Hayter

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 20:50:45 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

On 14/02/18 17:54, Johnny B Good wrote:
Who is going to want to do that, to save £6, when they started with
the premise of "Sockets with integrated USB"?

Well, if you're prepared as a DIYer, to spend that much on a plug-in
'socket converter', you might as well buy a dual gang mains socket
faceplate with built-in USB ports[1] in Home Bargains for your £9.99
spend.


I noticed them just yesterday and they appeared to be rather better
made
than the typical examples reviewed by Big Clive. I was rather impressed
by the fact that there were no exposed USB circuit boards or wiring
which could be damaged by careless handling during installation into a
back-box.

One can only assume that, if such care and attention to these basic
safety measures has been applied to the socket, the same level of
quality control will have been applied to the smpsu circuitry that's
been rendered inaccessible to all bar the most kack handed of DIY
enthusiast.


That's all very nice - but I stand by my thinking. It's the same
thinking that means I try to fit LED lamps to some sort of standard
socketed luminere and to avoid sealed units in all but the most trivial
cases.

Yep! You and me both. :-)

I was just pointing out the flaw in offering a plug-in USB charger that
doesn't block use of the socket to a DIYer who has his/her heart set on a
wall socket with built in USB charging ports when they can buy a high
quality dual gang socket with USB charging ports built in from their
nearest Home Bargains store for exactly the same money.

I take the same point of view that mains sockets should remain the one
everlasting standard for electrical power delivery which shouldn't be
cluttered up with built in USB charging ports. Far better in my view to
simply use cheap disposable wall-warts using, if need be, a short 3 or 4
way mains extension lead to avoid needlessly blocking up two or more
sockets when you've concentrated your wall-wart collection into one
convenient location to charge your collection of USB chargeable devices.

I think the apparent convenience of USB charging sockets will prove to
be mostly illusory and not quite so neat an idea as the manufacturers
would have you believe. I suspect most of these charging ports will land
up being filled in with a matching colour of epoxy resin in four or five
years time when they fail and go completely (and safely) dead.

--
Johnny B Good

On 15/02/18 03:51, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 20:50:45 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

On 14/02/18 17:54, Johnny B Good wrote:
Who is going to want to do that, to save £6, when they started with
the premise of "Sockets with integrated USB"?

Well, if you're prepared as a DIYer, to spend that much on a plug-in
'socket converter', you might as well buy a dual gang mains socket
faceplate with built-in USB ports[1] in Home Bargains for your £9.99
spend.


I noticed them just yesterday and they appeared to be rather better
made
than the typical examples reviewed by Big Clive. I was rather impressed
by the fact that there were no exposed USB circuit boards or wiring
which could be damaged by careless handling during installation into a
back-box.

One can only assume that, if such care and attention to these basic
safety measures has been applied to the socket, the same level of
quality control will have been applied to the smpsu circuitry that's
been rendered inaccessible to all bar the most kack handed of DIY
enthusiast.


That's all very nice - but I stand by my thinking. It's the same
thinking that means I try to fit LED lamps to some sort of standard
socketed luminere and to avoid sealed units in all but the most trivial
cases.

Yep! You and me both. :-)

I was just pointing out the flaw in offering a plug-in USB charger that
doesn't block use of the socket to a DIYer who has his/her heart set on a
wall socket with built in USB charging ports when they can buy a high
quality dual gang socket with USB charging ports built in from their
nearest Home Bargains store for exactly the same money.

I see your point...


I take the same point of view that mains sockets should remain the one
everlasting standard for electrical power delivery which shouldn't be
cluttered up with built in USB charging ports. Far better in my view to
simply use cheap disposable wall-warts using, if need be, a short 3 or 4
way mains extension lead to avoid needlessly blocking up two or more
sockets when you've concentrated your wall-wart collection into one
convenient location to charge your collection of USB chargeable devices.

I think the apparent convenience of USB charging sockets will prove to
be mostly illusory and not quite so neat an idea as the manufacturers
would have you believe. I suspect most of these charging ports will land
up being filled in with a matching colour of epoxy resin in four or five
years time when they fail and go completely (and safely) dead.

In article ,
Johnny B Good wrote:
I think the apparent convenience of USB charging sockets will prove to
be mostly illusory and not quite so neat an idea as the manufacturers
would have you believe. I suspect most of these charging ports will land
up being filled in with a matching colour of epoxy resin in four or five
years time when they fail and go completely (and safely) dead.

Given how cheap ordinary sockets are, why not just fit a new one? Or even
just put back the one which was there before you fitted the USB type?

--
*There's two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither one works *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 10:52:26 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Johnny B Good wrote:
I think the apparent convenience of USB charging sockets will prove to
be mostly illusory and not quite so neat an idea as the manufacturers
would have you believe. I suspect most of these charging ports will
land up being filled in with a matching colour of epoxy resin in four
or five years time when they fail and go completely (and safely) dead.

Given how cheap ordinary sockets are, why not just fit a new one? Or
even just put back the one which was there before you fitted the USB
type?

That assumes a DIYer organised enough to keep the originals in a safe
(and *memorable* location). :-)

Also, when the 13A sockets themselves are still perfectly serviceable
(virtually guaranteed for many decades of use unless made in a Chinese
factory following no recognised standards whatsoever using the cheapest
"Obtainium" materials that come to hand), just filling in the USB holes
to de-uglify the socket saves needlessly disturbing the ring main wiring.

If they *are* swapped out with new or the carefully preserved originals,
a canny[1] DIYer will store them somewhere safe for use as "Emergency
Spares" (de-uglyfied or not). They can always be used to release a normal
socket from a location where appearance isn't an issue to replace a
broken socket where appearance *is* an issue in a variation of the game
of 'Musical Chairs' where the 'loser' lands up in the skip.

[1] Meaning in this case someone with a strong "Waste not, want not."
ethic. :-)

--
Johnny B Good