Has worked fine for some time with its latest refurb board from CET but out-of-the blue failed to start the other morning.

As I still had the very first PCB the boiler came with (changed due to usual intermittent lock-out issue) I put that in and hey-presto, it worked!

However, when I first turned the mains on I was getting a flashing red. Pressed rest and away it went.

Got another board from CET this morning, put it in and same flashing red light on power-up and I can't get the board to reset. Put the very original (very first) board back in, powered on to flashing red again but it reset and away went the boiler.

I'm trying to reset with CH & HW off at the programmer and with the boiler stat off.

The fault finding flow chart says things like check pump wiring isn't reversed but it's worked fine for years and indeed is running at the moment.

Anyone have any ideas, please?

On 01/02/2018 12:02, wrote:
Has worked fine for some time with its latest refurb board from CET
but out-of-the blue failed to start the other morning.

As I still had the very first PCB the boiler came with (changed due
to usual intermittent lock-out issue) I put that in and hey-presto,
it worked!

However, when I first turned the mains on I was getting a flashing
red. Pressed rest and away it went.

Got another board from CET this morning, put it in and same flashing
red light on power-up and I can't get the board to reset. Put the
very original (very first) board back in, powered on to flashing red
again but it reset and away went the boiler.

I'm trying to reset with CH & HW off at the programmer and with the
boiler stat off.

The fault finding flow chart says things like check pump wiring isn't
reversed but it's worked fine for years and indeed is running at the
moment.

Anyone have any ideas, please?

Asking Geoff at CET might be your best bet...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

I did that. He was somewhat baffled.

Been away for 24hrs and been thinking about it and I wondered if the pump electronics might be causing an issue perhaps together with something marginal on the PCB.

I set it the boiler to come on at 7PM tonight and got home at 9 and it was running - and this is still with the original PCB in!

Well, this is all a bit weird - it's run for four days now with the original PCB fitted (a note I'd left with said removed in 2004). I've turned the power off and on and it came back on fine, without needing to be reset.

I want to put the 6mth old refurb and the new refurb boards back in and see what happens but I'm loath to touch it while it works!

On 06/02/2018 19:19, Rory wrote:
Well, this is all a bit weird - it's run for four days now with the
original PCB fitted (a note I'd left with said removed in 2004).
I've turned the power off and on and it came back on fine, without
needing to be reset.

I want to put the 6mth old refurb and the new refurb boards back in
and see what happens but I'm loath to touch it while it works!

Given its winter, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" springs to mind!



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Certainly what I was thinking.

It was quite iffy yesterday. It started fine but then, unusually, went off at some point not long after. So it was cold when we got up, and I wasn't popular. I reset it and it started then cut out again a few mins later. Normally once it's going it runs until it hits the boiler 'stat.

After that it was fine all day. Today it ran perfectly until about 11.30 when I noticed it was going chilly and found it was flashing red. It reset and ran fine.

What's different about these faults from the usual Suprima lock-out is it's going straight to flashing red - it's not doing the 3 tries at igniting (or re-igniting).

I do need to bite the bullet and try the other PCBs again, as at least one of them has to be exchanged back to Geoff.

On Thursday, 8 February 2018 14:17:27 UTC, Rory wrote:
Certainly what I was thinking.

It was quite iffy yesterday. It started fine but then, unusually, went off at some point not long after. So it was cold when we got up, and I wasn't popular. I reset it and it started then cut out again a few mins later. Normally once it's going it runs until it hits the boiler 'stat.

After that it was fine all day. Today it ran perfectly until about 11.30 when I noticed it was going chilly and found it was flashing red. It reset and ran fine.

What's different about these faults from the usual Suprima lock-out is it's going straight to flashing red - it's not doing the 3 tries at igniting (or re-igniting).

I do need to bite the bullet and try the other PCBs again, as at least one of them has to be exchanged back to Geoff.

maybe tapping the pcb with a bit of plastic or squirting it with freeze spray couyld narrow down a bad joint


NT

Just thought I'd update this - I limped along with my original PCB. I had tried prodding it - a plastic baby spoon worked well! - and found two of the relays clicked when nudged, so a bit of gentle 'packing' helped them work..

I decided to bite the bullet and get another refurb board. Low and behold it worked fine.

Quite why the first replacement didn't work at all I don't know. I've read of this before with Suprimas but hadn't thought of it my case, I assumed the fault was elsewhere. I guess there's something about the parameters the board checks on power up and maybe some are more fussy than others.

Just thought I'd update this in case anyone finds it on a search.

I limped along with my original PCB during the recent cold weather. I had tried prodding it - a plastic baby spoon worked well! - and found two of the relays clicked when nudged, so a bit of gentle 'packing' helped them work..

I decided to bite the bullet and get another refurb board. Low and behold it worked fine.

Quite why the first replacement didn't work at all I don't know. I've read of this before with Suprimas but hadn't thought of it my case, I assumed the fault was elsewhere. I guess there's something about the parameters the board checks on power up and maybe some are more fussy than others.

In article , Rory
scribeth thus
Just thought I'd update this in case anyone finds it on a search.

I limped along with my original PCB during the recent cold weather. I had tried
prodding it - a plastic baby spoon worked well! - and found two of the relays
clicked when nudged, so a bit of gentle 'packing' helped them work.

I decided to bite the bullet and get another refurb board. Low and behold it
worked fine.

Quite why the first replacement didn't work at all I don't know. I've read of
this before with Suprimas but hadn't thought of it my case, I assumed the fault
was elsewhere. I guess there's something about the parameters the board checks
on power up and maybe some are more fussy than others.




Proud Suprima 80 owner here;!.

After faffing around with re-furbed board's put in a new redesigned type
around two years ago now.

Result?.

Not one problem since, behaves itself impeccably:-)

--
Tony Sayer

To be fair I've had a good run and very few problems, and the big thing is none have been complete 'show-stoppers' - I've always been able to reset or wiggle something and get the boiler going, or, as in the most recent case, replace with the original board I still had.

Good luck with yours, but what put me off changing to the modified board is you still see reports of failures.

I also keep thinking I'll just dump the boiler, but replacing it won't be trivial as it'll need to go somewhere else.

In article ,
Rory wrote:
ust thought I'd update this - I limped along with my original PCB. I
had tried prodding it - a plastic baby spoon worked well! - and found
two of the relays clicked when nudged, so a bit of gentle 'packing'
helped them work.

That suggests a dry joint somewhere - or a broken track which makes when
flexed.

My first approach would be to remove the board and re-flow all the joints.

If it is a multi layer PCB, make sure any through hole stuff flows to both
sides.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Rory
scribeth thus
To be fair I've had a good run and very few problems, and the big thing is none
have been complete 'show-stoppers' - I've always been able to reset or wiggle
something and get the boiler going, or, as in the most recent case, replace with
the original board I still had.

Good luck with yours, but what put me off changing to the modified board is you
still see reports of failures.

I also keep thinking I'll just dump the boiler, but replacing it won't be
trivial as it'll need to go somewhere else.


As per other post change the old board to the new redesigned one, its
much much better
--
Tony Sayer

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 4:44:03 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
That suggests a dry joint somewhere - or a broken track which makes when
flexed.

My first approach would be to remove the board and re-flow all the joints.


Thanks, yes, I did have a go at the board years ago but these Suprima boards are very delicate and from reading of others experiences it's common to lift pads and even tracks. So I wanted to not molest this board further and keep it a known 'good' board.

The one I got from CET that didn't work in my boiler was pretty heavily reworked, with quite a lot of links and bridges.

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 4:44:03 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

That suggests a dry joint somewhere - or a broken track which makes when
flexed.

My first approach would be to remove the board and re-flow all the joints.

Thanks, yes, I did have a go at the board years ago but these Suprima boards are very delicate and from reading of others experiences it's common to lift pads and even tracks. So I wanted to not molest this board further and keep it a known 'good' board.

The one I got from CET that didn't work in my boiler was pretty heavily reworked, with quite a lot of links and bridges. The latest one they sent was much 'cleaner' and worked fine.

In article ,
Rory wrote:
On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 4:44:03 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
That suggests a dry joint somewhere - or a broken track which makes
when flexed.

My first approach would be to remove the board and re-flow all the
joints.


Thanks, yes, I did have a go at the board years ago but these Suprima
boards are very delicate and from reading of others experiences it's
common to lift pads and even tracks.

That would happen with careless replacement of components - not re-flowing
existing joints.



So I wanted to not molest this board further and keep it a known 'good'
board.

The one I got from CET that didn't work in my boiler was pretty heavily
reworked, with quite a lot of links and bridges.

Sounds like it had a short somewhere that wasn't protected by a fuse.

If they really do save pennies by using an ultra lightweight material for
the PCB and tracks, would be a make to avoid.

--
*The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 14 April 2018 00:18:12 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rory wrote:
On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 4:44:03 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
That suggests a dry joint somewhere - or a broken track which makes
when flexed.

My first approach would be to remove the board and re-flow all the
joints.


Thanks, yes, I did have a go at the board years ago but these Suprima
boards are very delicate and from reading of others experiences it's
common to lift pads and even tracks.

That would happen with careless replacement of components - not re-flowing
existing joints.



So I wanted to not molest this board further and keep it a known 'good'
board.

The one I got from CET that didn't work in my boiler was pretty heavily
reworked, with quite a lot of links and bridges.

Sounds like it had a short somewhere that wasn't protected by a fuse.

If they really do save pennies by using an ultra lightweight material for
the PCB and tracks, would be a make to avoid.

I think all boilers are makes to avoid bar Vaillant & WB, simply on grounds of reliability.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
If they really do save pennies by using an ultra lightweight material
for the PCB and tracks, would be a make to avoid.

I think all boilers are makes to avoid bar Vaillant & WB, simply on
grounds of reliability.

The PCB on my Viessmann is made to an excellent standard. I know this
because I've replaced a PCB type fuse on it. But then, so are most goods.
I've never really come across one I'd describe as being made from a poor
quality PCB material.

Of course like all PCBs they can have burnt etc tracks if not fuse etc
protected, and you have a component or whatever fail short circuit. Or it
gets badly overheated.

--
*Being healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 14 April 2018 10:59:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

If they really do save pennies by using an ultra lightweight material
for the PCB and tracks, would be a make to avoid.

I think all boilers are makes to avoid bar Vaillant & WB, simply on
grounds of reliability.

The PCB on my Viessmann is made to an excellent standard. I know this
because I've replaced a PCB type fuse on it. But then, so are most goods.
I've never really come across one I'd describe as being made from a poor
quality PCB material.

Of course like all PCBs they can have burnt etc tracks if not fuse etc
protected, and you have a component or whatever fail short circuit. Or it
gets badly overheated.

none of that tells anything much about its reliability of course.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 April 2018 10:59:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

If they really do save pennies by using an ultra lightweight
material for the PCB and tracks, would be a make to avoid.

I think all boilers are makes to avoid bar Vaillant & WB, simply on
grounds of reliability.

The PCB on my Viessmann is made to an excellent standard. I know this
because I've replaced a PCB type fuse on it. But then, so are most
goods. I've never really come across one I'd describe as being made
from a poor quality PCB material.

Of course like all PCBs they can have burnt etc tracks if not fuse etc
protected, and you have a component or whatever fail short circuit. Or
it gets badly overheated.

none of that tells anything much about its reliability of course.

I was replying to a post about perceived build quality of PCBs.

Stating a particular boiler is just great in your own experience is of
limited value. You need statistics for many to get a truer picture.


NT

--
*Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 14 April 2018 13:18:55 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 14 April 2018 10:59:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

If they really do save pennies by using an ultra lightweight
material for the PCB and tracks, would be a make to avoid.

I think all boilers are makes to avoid bar Vaillant & WB, simply on
grounds of reliability.

The PCB on my Viessmann is made to an excellent standard. I know this
because I've replaced a PCB type fuse on it. But then, so are most
goods. I've never really come across one I'd describe as being made
from a poor quality PCB material.

Of course like all PCBs they can have burnt etc tracks if not fuse etc
protected, and you have a component or whatever fail short circuit. Or
it gets badly overheated.

none of that tells anything much about its reliability of course.

I was replying to a post about perceived build quality of PCBs.

Stating a particular boiler is just great in your own experience is of
limited value. You need statistics for many to get a truer picture.

I thought the Which report on boilers was well known round here.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 14 April 2018 13:18:55 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 14 April 2018 10:59:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

If they really do save pennies by using an ultra lightweight
material for the PCB and tracks, would be a make to avoid.

I think all boilers are makes to avoid bar Vaillant & WB, simply on
grounds of reliability.

The PCB on my Viessmann is made to an excellent standard. I know this
because I've replaced a PCB type fuse on it. But then, so are most
goods. I've never really come across one I'd describe as being made
from a poor quality PCB material.

Of course like all PCBs they can have burnt etc tracks if not fuse etc
protected, and you have a component or whatever fail short circuit. Or
it gets badly overheated.

none of that tells anything much about its reliability of course.

I was replying to a post about perceived build quality of PCBs.

Stating a particular boiler is just great in your own experience is of
limited value. You need statistics for many to get a truer picture.

I thought the Which report on boilers was well known round here.

If it gives reliability results gleaned from owners, can be a useful
guide. Not so much for a new model.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 14 April 2018 15:57:36 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 14 April 2018 13:18:55 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 14 April 2018 10:59:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

If they really do save pennies by using an ultra lightweight
material for the PCB and tracks, would be a make to avoid.

I think all boilers are makes to avoid bar Vaillant & WB, simply on
grounds of reliability.

The PCB on my Viessmann is made to an excellent standard. I know this
because I've replaced a PCB type fuse on it. But then, so are most
goods. I've never really come across one I'd describe as being made
from a poor quality PCB material.

Of course like all PCBs they can have burnt etc tracks if not fuse etc
protected, and you have a component or whatever fail short circuit. Or
it gets badly overheated.

none of that tells anything much about its reliability of course.

I was replying to a post about perceived build quality of PCBs.

Stating a particular boiler is just great in your own experience is of
limited value. You need statistics for many to get a truer picture.

I thought the Which report on boilers was well known round here.

If it gives reliability results gleaned from owners, can be a useful
guide. Not so much for a new model.

No, but still useful enough to know what companies to avoid. Maybe 1 or 2 of the not so good will get their act together at some point, until I'm not buying.


NT

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:18:12 AM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If they really do save pennies by using an ultra lightweight material for
the PCB and tracks, would be a make to avoid.

Potterton Suprima boards are legendary for how cheap and nasty they are. It's a shame because otherwise it's a good boiler - very simple with cast iron heat exchanger and very compact (which will make it a pain to replace). It's also efficient for a non-condensing boiler.

Easy to avoid them now as the company doesn't exist any more - the brand name has been part of Baxi for some years.

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 5:35:15 AM UTC+1, wrote:

I think all boilers are makes to avoid bar Vaillant & WB, simply on grounds of reliability.

You see plenty of "they don't make 'em like they use to" comments on both those brands. WB sell a lot of boilers but it does seem that if you get a bad one it can be a right pain with recurring faults.

Boiler fitters like WB as in the event of a problem during installation their support is excellent.

In article , Rory
scribeth thus
On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 4:44:03 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
That suggests a dry joint somewhere - or a broken track which makes when
flexed.

My first approach would be to remove the board and re-flow all the joints.


Thanks, yes, I did have a go at the board years ago but these Suprima boards are
very delicate and from reading of others experiences it's common to lift pads
and even tracks. So I wanted to not molest this board further and keep it a
known 'good' board.

The one I got from CET that didn't work in my boiler was pretty heavily
reworked, with quite a lot of links and bridges.

The problem is or was the original PCB was a pile of ****e. I had taken
the PCB reflowed the solder replaced all of the burnt components had
more reworked replacement boards then i could remember but still it did
all its usual lockout and other silly buggers faults.

Then around 3 years ago now i changed the PCB for the new one it comes
as a complete upgrade kit on here for illustration;


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BAXI-POTT...0-PCB-UPGRADE-
KIT-5111603-REPLACES-NO-407750-/162998999375


From that time to this its been absolutely faultless i don't recall
having to press the reset switch once it just works and works well

But until you do the PCB upgrade then do expect all manner of odd faults
reason being is the original PCB was useless and not fit for purpose!.
--
Tony Sayer

On Sunday, 15 April 2018 12:52:06 UTC+1, Rory wrote:
On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 5:35:15 AM UTC+1, tabby wrote:

I think all boilers are makes to avoid bar Vaillant & WB, simply on grounds of reliability.

You see plenty of "they don't make 'em like they use to" comments on both those brands. WB sell a lot of boilers but it does seem that if you get a bad one it can be a right pain with recurring faults.

Sure, they also have significant room for improvement.

Boiler fitters like WB as in the event of a problem during installation their support is excellent.

availability of spares is the best for WB.


NT