Im getting an awful feeling of déjÃ* vu today.

I was round at my mothers flushing her CH system when she commented that
the bathroom radiator/towel rail didnt get hot.

Having checked that it was full of water and that it wouldnt get hot even
when it was the only radiator switched on in the system I established by
bleeding it whilst opening the two valves in turn that there was no flow or
continuity through one €œleg€� of the radiator.

I went under the floor of the flat (easy to do via a basement entrance) and
tried to trace the plumbing. With a sinking heart I spotted that a section
of braided flexible pipe had been used for a €œtricky€� connection. Its
almost certainly going to be a ******* to replace as it disappears under
the bathroom floor and access is extremely limited.

Thisll be the second time Ive been cursed with inappropriate use of
braided (probably €œSpeedfit€�) hoses in a CH system. The last time was on my
Myson kickspace heater.

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in your
house.

/end grumble.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 23/01/2018 21:40, Tim+ wrote:

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in your
house.

Do they get blocked easily?

GB wrote:
On 23/01/2018 21:40, Tim+ wrote:

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in your
house.

Do they get blocked easily?




I think the lining swells. Whether its just the long term effect of hot
water or the effect of corrosion inhibitors I dont know but the end effect
is no flow. When I get the *******ing thing out Ill cut it open and see.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 24/01/2018 08:22, Tim+ wrote:
GB wrote:
On 23/01/2018 21:40, Tim+ wrote:

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in your
house.

Do they get blocked easily?




I think the lining swells. Whether its just the long term effect of hot
water or the effect of corrosion inhibitors I dont know but the end effect
is no flow. When I get the *******ing thing out Ill cut it open and see.

I see.

I recently removed some old rads, and they had some very sticky black
gloop in. If that's bunging up your hose, you might be able to clear it
rather than replace it.


Tim

On 24/01/18 08:10, GB wrote:
On 23/01/2018 21:40, Tim+ wrote:

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH
systems!
Â* Speedfit website clearly says so.Â* Do not let any plumber fit them
in your
house.

Do they get blocked easily?


IME constsant hot water flow degrades the rubber which breaks down



--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On Tuesday, 23 January 2018 21:40:25 UTC, Tim+ wrote:

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in your
house.

Oops. Does this apply to only the low temp rated ones or to hot rated ones too?


NT

On 24/01/2018 08:22, Tim+ wrote:
GB wrote:
On 23/01/2018 21:40, Tim+ wrote:

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in your
house.

Do they get blocked easily?




I think the lining swells. Whether its just the long term effect of hot
water or the effect of corrosion inhibitors I dont know but the end effect
is no flow. When I get the *******ing thing out Ill cut it open and see.

Tim


One of the problems is that a kink can flatten the tube.

In theory, cheap and nasty nitrile rubber should be OK for quite a long
time at central heating temperatures and chemistry.

You *used* to be able to buy flexible corrugated copper tube with a
solder fitting at each end, I used one once on an awkward bath.

newshound wrote:
On 24/01/2018 08:22, Tim+ wrote:
GB wrote:
On 23/01/2018 21:40, Tim+ wrote:

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in your
house.

Do they get blocked easily?




I think the lining swells. Whether its just the long term effect of hot
water or the effect of corrosion inhibitors I dont know but the end effect
is no flow. When I get the *******ing thing out Ill cut it open and see.

Tim


One of the problems is that a kink can flatten the tube.

In this case though its a short 12€� straight section. No bends.


In theory, cheap and nasty nitrile rubber should be OK for quite a long
time at central heating temperatures and chemistry.

Whatever the theory, Speedfit do not recommend their hoses for CH use.


You *used* to be able to buy flexible corrugated copper tube with a
solder fitting at each end, I used one once on an awkward bath.

Still readily available.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible-...-x-300mm/61598

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

I don't like them anyway, I got lacerated fingers trying to get one undone
on a cold water tap in a kitchen a couple of years ago. they seem to shred
and th sharp ends are like rose thorns.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
I'm getting an awful feeling of déjà vu today.

I was round at my mother's flushing her CH system when she commented that
the bathroom radiator/towel rail didn't get hot.

Having checked that it was full of water and that it wouldn't get hot even
when it was the only radiator switched on in the system I established by
bleeding it whilst opening the two valves in turn that there was no flow
or
continuity through one "leg" of the radiator.

I went under the floor of the flat (easy to do via a basement entrance)
and
tried to trace the plumbing. With a sinking heart I spotted that a
section
of braided flexible pipe had been used for a "tricky" connection. It's
almost certainly going to be a ******* to replace as it disappears under
the bathroom floor and access is extremely limited.

This'll be the second time I've been cursed with inappropriate use of
braided (probably "Speedfit") hoses in a CH system. The last time was on
my
Myson kickspace heater.

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH
systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in your
house.

/end grumble.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

No cos they then leak which was why my cold tap needed one changing. The
lining had split when we tried to bend it a few years after fitting no doubt
due to lime scale on the inside of it. Indeed between these and the
convoluted so called bendable ones that get pin holes at the flute corners,
I've yet to find a flexible pipe with a long life.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"GB" wrote in message
news
On 24/01/2018 08:22, Tim+ wrote:
GB wrote:
On 23/01/2018 21:40, Tim+ wrote:

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH
systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in
your
house.

Do they get blocked easily?




I think the lining swells. Whether it's just the long term effect of hot
water or the effect of corrosion inhibitors I don't know but the end
effect
is no flow. When I get the *******ing thing out I'll cut it open and
see.

I see.

I recently removed some old rads, and they had some very sticky black
gloop in. If that's bunging up your hose, you might be able to clear it
rather than replace it.


Tim

On 23/01/2018 21:40, Tim+ wrote:
Im getting an awful feeling of déjÃ* vu today.

I was round at my mothers flushing her CH system when she commented that
the bathroom radiator/towel rail didnt get hot.

Having checked that it was full of water and that it wouldnt get hot even
when it was the only radiator switched on in the system I established by
bleeding it whilst opening the two valves in turn that there was no flow or
continuity through one €œleg€� of the radiator.

I went under the floor of the flat (easy to do via a basement entrance) and
tried to trace the plumbing. With a sinking heart I spotted that a section
of braided flexible pipe had been used for a €œtricky€� connection. Its
almost certainly going to be a ******* to replace as it disappears under
the bathroom floor and access is extremely limited.

Thisll be the second time Ive been cursed with inappropriate use of
braided (probably €œSpeedfit€�) hoses in a CH system. The last time was on my
Myson kickspace heater.

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in your
house.

/end grumble.

Tim

Speedfit ones may not be, but Myson kickspace heaters defintely used to
come with braided flexis - I helped my father fit one about 20 years ago
and it is still running fine.

SteveW

On 24/01/2018 13:03, Tim+ wrote:

Still readily available.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible-...-x-300mm/61598


Similar in stainless from Toolsatan

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plu...el+Hose/p16172

or

https://tinyurl.com/ybu96vam



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 24/01/2018 21:57, alan_m wrote:
On 24/01/2018 13:03, Tim+ wrote:

Still readily available.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible-...-x-300mm/61598



Similar in stainless from Toolsatan

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plu...el+Hose/p16172


I thought this was great, and then I read the reviews.

On 24/01/2018 21:20, Steve Walker wrote:

Speedfit ones may not be, but Myson kickspace heaters defintely used to
come with braided flexis - I helped my father fit one about 20 years ago
and it is still running fine.

Mine came with braided hoses 18 months ago.

Tim+ Wrote in

This?ll be the second time I?ve been cursed with inappropriate use of
braided (probably ?Speedfit?) hoses in a CH system. The last time was on my
Myson kickspace heater.

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in your
house.

/end grumble.


Braided pipe in situ:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JLEQHgNDXWTU1HDg2

Pipe extracted:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SboH9X72KB1E85DJ2

Cross section of middle:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zWlm3bm0E2lUG0mA2

Cross section of end near coupling:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EcNQthYVIhjakL5h2

As expected it was a bit of a bugger to extract but fortunately
there was enough access to allow me to use my quickcut on the
pipe beyond the inaccessible joint and re-join it all with a
longer loop of speedfit tubing and connectors.

When I cut the braided section in two there was thick black gritty
sludge completely filling the pipe. It could be displaced by
running it under a fast flowing tap though. I then cut through it
immediately adjacent to one end and whilst there was a bit a
moveable sludge. The end of the pipe was filled with a hard plug
of impacted material.

So, it's clearly not the rubber swelling as I imagined but a build
up of either corrosion of the fitting itself or deposition of
crud in the pipework perhaps exacerbated by small internal bore
of the connectors. (About 6mm).

Anyhow, as this is the second time I've seen this happen with
these flexible hoses in CH systems I think that it's a strong
indication never to use them.

The radiator is now toasty and warm for the first time in years.
A very satisfying hour's work.

Tim

--

dennis@home wrote:
On 24/01/2018 21:20, Steve Walker wrote:

Speedfit ones may not be, but Myson kickspace heaters defintely used to
come with braided flexis - I helped my father fit one about 20 years ago
and it is still running fine.

Mine came with braided hoses 18 months ago.



Be prepared for the heat output to drop to zero then.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 15:30:52 +0000 (GMT), Tim+
wrote:

snip

So, it's clearly not the rubber swelling as I imagined but a build
up of either corrosion of the fitting itself or deposition of
crud in the pipework perhaps exacerbated by small internal bore
of the connectors. (About 6mm).

It all seems strange to me as the last system I worked on was my Mums
and that's mostly an ex gravity system and the pipe sizes are huge!
;-)

Anyhow, as this is the second time I've seen this happen with
these flexible hoses in CH systems I think that it's a strong
indication never to use them.

Or anything that substantially reduces or restricts the flow,
especially where it's not easy to access / service.

The radiator is now toasty and warm for the first time in years.

Excellent.

A very satisfying hour's work.

It's lovely when a plan comes together eh. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 15:30:52 +0000 (GMT), Tim+
wrote:

snip

So, it's clearly not the rubber swelling as I imagined but a build
up of either corrosion of the fitting itself or deposition of
crud in the pipework perhaps exacerbated by small internal bore
of the connectors. (About 6mm).

It all seems strange to me as the last system I worked on was my Mums
and that's mostly an ex gravity system and the pipe sizes are huge!
;-)

Anyhow, as this is the second time I've seen this happen with
these flexible hoses in CH systems I think that it's a strong
indication never to use them.

Or anything that substantially reduces or restricts the flow,
especially where it's not easy to access / service.

Actually, I think its the flow restriction and probable inadequate
corrosion inhibitor that combine to lead to the blockages. Ive probably
been a little unfair to the hoses in that nothing appears to have gone
wrong with the rubber and theres no corrosion of any hose components that
I can see.

When you have a 15mm pipe that is constricted to 6mm, then opens up to
about 12mm before going through another 6mm constriction, I think you
probably have the perfect device to trap any circulating crud.


The radiator is now toasty and warm for the first time in years.

Excellent.

A very satisfying hour's work.

It's lovely when a plan comes together eh. ;-)

Indeed. ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 25 Jan 2018 16:57:12 GMT, Tim+ wrote:


snip

Or anything that substantially reduces or restricts the flow,
especially where it's not easy to access / service.

Actually, I think it’s the flow restriction and probable inadequate
corrosion inhibitor that combine to lead to the blockages. I’ve probably
been a little unfair to the hoses in that nothing appears to have gone
wrong with the rubber and there’s no corrosion of any hose components that
I can see.

Ok ...

When you have a 15mm pipe that is constricted to 6mm, then opens up to
about 12mm before going through another 6mm constriction, I think you
probably have the perfect device to trap any circulating crud.

Quite, and whilst the hoses themselves may not have actually failed as
such, (as you say) the 'design' seems to be party to there being an
issue in the first place?

snip

On Mums system the first 'restriction' in the system is the heat
exchanger so after some bathroom reworks we felt some scale had broken
free (and there wasn't much in general) and was sitting in the heat
exchanger. We took it out but it seemed clear enough (considering how
old it is) but after putting it all back together it seemed ok again.
shrug

Cheers, T i m

Tim+ wrote:

Tim+ Wrote in

This?ll be the second time I?ve been cursed with inappropriate use of
braided (probably ?Speedfit?) hoses in a CH system. The last time was on my
Myson kickspace heater.

Lest there is any doubt, these fecking hoses are NOT for use in CH systems!
Speedfit website clearly says so. Do not let any plumber fit them in your
house.

/end grumble.


Braided pipe in situ:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JLEQHgNDXWTU1HDg2

Pipe extracted:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SboH9X72KB1E85DJ2

Cross section of middle:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zWlm3bm0E2lUG0mA2

Cross section of end near coupling:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EcNQthYVIhjakL5h2

As expected it was a bit of a bugger to extract but fortunately
there was enough access to allow me to use my quickcut on the
pipe beyond the inaccessible joint and re-join it all with a
longer loop of speedfit tubing and connectors.

When I cut the braided section in two there was thick black gritty
sludge completely filling the pipe. It could be displaced by
running it under a fast flowing tap though. I then cut through it
immediately adjacent to one end and whilst there was a bit a
moveable sludge. The end of the pipe was filled with a hard plug
of impacted material.

So, it's clearly not the rubber swelling as I imagined but a build
up of either corrosion of the fitting itself or deposition of
crud in the pipework perhaps exacerbated by small internal bore
of the connectors. (About 6mm).

Anyhow, as this is the second time I've seen this happen with
these flexible hoses in CH systems I think that it's a strong
indication never to use them.

The radiator is now toasty and warm for the first time in years.
A very satisfying hour's work.

Tim

I have had one of these braided pipes fail by hardening and leaking in
the cold water supply to a lavatory cistern. Provenance uncertain, age
uncertain (less than 30 years) but bent through 90deg and slightly
kinked by a *hot* pipe. I suspect the hot pipe (and the rubber being
rated for cold) to be the main culprit. But I wouldn't use them unless
I had to (with mixer taps for instance).



--

Roger Hayter

On 25 Jan 2018 15:51:26 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

dennis@home wrote:
On 24/01/2018 21:20, Steve Walker wrote:

Speedfit ones may not be, but Myson kickspace heaters defintely used to
come with braided flexis - I helped my father fit one about 20 years ago
and it is still running fine.

Mine came with braided hoses 18 months ago.


Be prepared for the heat output to drop to zero then.

Touch wood, 15 years since installed and it must still be putting heat out
because one of our cats loves to sit in front of it and get a blow dry.
Strangely she's scared of hair driers.
--