This was a sheltered housing scheme in Nottingham. We look after the
communal TV system.
The last time we were there was because the mains sockets in the
hallways had been changed by the electricians for ones with keys so that
the tenants can't plug scooters in (how mean is that?). They'd installed
these sockets in the old back boxes and there wasn't enough room so the
cables were crushed and shorted out. TV was off for 5 days last time and
it's happened again. This time the electrician was installing these new
sockets in surface mounted steel backboxes and he managed to blow all
the fuses leaving them with no TV. When we switched the RCD back on one
of the tenants saw sparks flying out of the front of one of the mains
sockets. I think it was a bit of a shock for the old lady on her scooter
when the wall started sparking!
Electricians that can't even install mains sockets without ****ing it up!
One of the old ladies threatened to sue both us and the housing
association cause she'd missed 5 days of TV last time, seriously. Gave
her a right ear full in front of some other tenants. They later told me
that she's a well-known crack pot.

Bill

On 09/01/2018 21:19, Bill Wright wrote:

One of the old ladies threatened to sue both us and the housing
association cause she'd missed 5 days of TV last time, seriously. Gave
her a right ear full in front of some other tenants. They later told me
that she's a well-known crack pot.

Bill

If she is in sheltered housing, she might have nothing to do all day but
watch daytime TV. (Shudders!) So, losing that leaves her staring at the
walls of her room for five days.

On 09/01/2018 22:02, GB wrote:
On 09/01/2018 21:19, Bill Wright wrote:

One of the old ladies threatened to sue both us and the housing
association cause she'd missed 5 days of TV last time, seriously. Gave
her a right ear full in front of some other tenants. They later told
me that she's a well-known crack pot.

Bill

If she is in sheltered housing, she might have nothing to do all day but
watch daytime TV. (Shudders!) So, losing that leaves her staring at the
walls of her room for five days.

I absolutely understand tenants' frustration when they are in that
position, and we always do all we can to help. However this lady was not
disabled and lives in a complex where there are communal lounges, and
neighbours to visit. The shops are within easy reach. Newspapers and
books are available.

Some old people are gratuitously offensive and aggressive. Or so my
friends keep telling me.

Bill

On Wednesday, 10 January 2018 01:54:16 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
Some old people are gratuitously offensive and aggressive.

It's one of the few perks of getting old.

Either that, or sore dentures.

Owain

On 10/01/2018 01:54, Bill Wright wrote:
On 09/01/2018 22:02, GB wrote:
On 09/01/2018 21:19, Bill Wright wrote:

One of the old ladies threatened to sue both us and the housing
association cause she'd missed 5 days of TV last time, seriously.
Gave her a right ear full in front of some other tenants. They later
told me that she's a well-known crack pot.

Bill

If she is in sheltered housing, she might have nothing to do all day
but watch daytime TV. (Shudders!) So, losing that leaves her staring
at the walls of her room for five days.

I absolutely understand tenants' frustration when they are in that
position, and we always do all we can to help. However this lady was not
disabled and lives in a complex where there are communal lounges, and
neighbours to visit. The shops are within easy reach. Newspapers and
books are available.

Some old people are gratuitously offensive and aggressive. Or so my
friends keep telling me.

Bill

5 days to fix a serious electrical fault!!! That's atrocious.

Mike

On 10/01/2018 01:54, Bill Wright wrote:

Some old people are gratuitously offensive and aggressive. Or so my
friends keep telling me.

Bill

There are a few on this NG.

Seriously, one of the main reasons for ending up in sheltered housing is
brain deterioration. That can take the form of damage to the frontal
lobes, which normally regulate what we say. Normal people may feel
angry, but they filter what they actually say. After damage to the
frontal lobes, that filter is removed, and the people become
disinhibited. It's not something they can control, as the control
mechanism has been destroyed.

Having said that though, her aggravation is justified, itit should have been
directed at the bodgers who fitted the system, and yes its mean as I found
out the other day, a local supposedly well appointed home has stopped
residents using the advertises wifi as they claim they are all streaming
films and using Amazon Echo devices. They now cut the link after a couple of
hours and require them to go to admin and get a new password. of course
this is really impossible so they now have to have their own broadband
installed as well, and many are trying to take the home to task about
advertising free wifi when its so limited.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
news
This was a sheltered housing scheme in Nottingham. We look after the
communal TV system.
The last time we were there was because the mains sockets in the hallways
had been changed by the electricians for ones with keys so that the
tenants can't plug scooters in (how mean is that?). They'd installed these
sockets in the old back boxes and there wasn't enough room so the cables
were crushed and shorted out. TV was off for 5 days last time and it's
happened again. This time the electrician was installing these new sockets
in surface mounted steel backboxes and he managed to blow all the fuses
leaving them with no TV. When we switched the RCD back on one of the
tenants saw sparks flying out of the front of one of the mains sockets. I
think it was a bit of a shock for the old lady on her scooter when the
wall started sparking!
Electricians that can't even install mains sockets without ****ing it up!
One of the old ladies threatened to sue both us and the housing
association cause she'd missed 5 days of TV last time, seriously. Gave her
a right ear full in front of some other tenants. They later told me that
she's a well-known crack pot.

Bill

On 10/01/2018 01:54, Bill Wright wrote:
Some old people are gratuitously offensive and aggressive.

The next generation of uk.d-i-y contributors ?

On 10/01/2018 09:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
Having said that though, her aggravation is justified, itit should have been
directed at the bodgers who fitted the system, and yes its mean as I found
out the other day, a local supposedly well appointed home has stopped
residents using the advertises wifi as they claim they are all streaming
films and using Amazon Echo devices. They now cut the link after a couple of
hours and require them to go to admin and get a new password. of course
this is really impossible so they now have to have their own broadband
installed as well, and many are trying to take the home to task about
advertising free wifi when its so limited.

Brian

I think you'll find the problem is watching live tv which puts the
wifi admin in a difficult legal position.

Andrew wrote:
On 10/01/2018 01:54, Bill Wright wrote:
Some old people are gratuitously offensive and aggressive.

The next generation of uk.d-i-y contributors ?

Next?

--
Chris Green
·

On 10/01/2018 08:45, Muddymike wrote:

5 days to fix a serious electrical fault!!! That's atrocious.

Mike

Especially one that that the electricians had caused, and must have
known about when the did it.

Bill

On 10/01/2018 10:07, Andrew wrote:


I think you'll find the problem is watching live tv which puts the
wifi admin in a difficult legal position.

Same as every single free wifi system then?

Bill

On 09/01/2018 21:19, Bill Wright wrote:

Electricians that can't even install mains sockets without ****ing it up!


Probably an apprentice. The housing association would of course been
charged the full going rate for an electrician to do the job.


--


Adam

On Tuesday, 9 January 2018 21:19:53 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
This was a sheltered housing scheme in Nottingham. We look after the
communal TV system.
The last time we were there was because the mains sockets in the
hallways had been changed by the electricians for ones with keys so that
the tenants can't plug scooters in (how mean is that?).

Scooters in hallways are an obstruction and may be a fire hazard if they're charging, quite apart from the cost of the lecky.

The real fault is with whoever allowed a critical system (ie telly) to be powered of a circuit shared by sockets accessible to untrained persons. (Even if the monkeys who broke things are nominally trained persons.)

Owain

On 09/01/2018 21:19, Bill Wright wrote:
This was a sheltered housing scheme in Nottingham. We look after the
communal TV system.
The last time we were there was because the mains sockets in the
hallways had been changed by the electricians for ones with keys so that
the tenants can't plug scooters in (how mean is that?). They'd installed
these sockets in the old back boxes and there wasn't enough room so the
cables were crushed and shorted out. TV was off for 5 days last time and
it's happened again. This time the electrician was installing these new
sockets in surface mounted steel backboxes and he managed to blow all
the fuses leaving them with no TV. When we switched the RCD back on one
of the tenants saw sparks flying out of the front of one of the mains
sockets. I think it was a bit of a shock for the old lady on her scooter
when the wall started sparking!
Electricians that can't even install mains sockets without ****ing it up!
One of the old ladies threatened to sue both us and the housing
association cause she'd missed 5 days of TV last time, seriously. Gave
her a right ear full in front of some other tenants. They later told me
that she's a well-known crack pot.

Bill

Faced with that degree of incompetence my sympathies are rather with the
old lady.

On 10/01/2018 09:32, GB wrote:
On 10/01/2018 01:54, Bill Wright wrote:

Some old people are gratuitously offensive and aggressive. Or so my
friends keep telling me.

Bill

There are a few on this NG.

Seriously, one of the main reasons for ending up in sheltered housing is
brain deterioration. That can take the form of damage to the frontal
lobes, which normally regulate what we say. Normal people may feel
angry, but they filter what they actually say. After damage to the
frontal lobes, that filter is removed, and the people become
disinhibited. It's not something they can control, as the control
mechanism has been destroyed.

Absolutely. To both points.

On 10/01/2018 10:07, Andrew wrote:
On 10/01/2018 09:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
Having said that though, her aggravation is justified, itit should
have been
directed at the bodgers who fitted the system, and yes its mean as I
found
out the other day, a local supposedly well appointedÂ* home has stopped
residents using the advertises wifi as they claim they are all streaming
films and using Amazon Echo devices. They now cut the link after a
couple of
hours and require them to go to admin and get a new password.Â* of course
this is really impossible so they now have to have their own broadband
installed as well, and many are trying to take the home to task about
advertising free wifi when its so limited.

Brian

I think you'll find the problem is watching live tv which puts the
wifi admin in a difficult legal position.

Pretty well all homes have people who watch TV for much of the day and
are fully licenced for TV use - does it not cover on-line use, just as a
domestic licence does?

BTW, the rules have changed, you now need a licence for BBC catch-up ,
not just for live TV.

SteveW

Andrew Wrote in message:
On 10/01/2018 01:54, Bill Wright wrote:
Some old people are gratuitously offensive and aggressive.

The next generation of uk.d-i-y contributors ?


Current.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 9 January 2018 21:19:53 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
This was a sheltered housing scheme in Nottingham. We look after the
communal TV system.
The last time we were there was because the mains sockets in the
hallways had been changed by the electricians for ones with keys so that
the tenants can't plug scooters in (how mean is that?).

Scooters in hallways are an obstruction and may be a fire hazard if they're charging, quite apart from the cost of the lecky.

The real fault is with whoever allowed a critical system (ie telly) to be powered of a circuit shared by sockets accessible to untrained persons. (Even if the monkeys who broke things are nominally trained persons.)

Owain


Shurely a different circuit as otherwise why stop them using the
sockets to charge scooters etc in the first place
?

I read it as the TV distribution gear was on the same circuit as
the "secured" socketry...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article e2bb9d17-fcb5-4a22-ab8e-54b77317da01
@googlegroups.com, says...


The real fault is with whoever allowed a critical system (ie telly) to be powered of a circuit shared by sockets accessible to untrained persons. (Even if the monkeys who broke things are nominally trained persons.)


It might not even be safe even if it is given its own feed!

In 1969 I went to work on a Cable TV system for The London
Stock Exchange - 22 channels displaying live market prices.

This was in the days of the great GPO monopoly and they
provided all the trunk feeds - we were only responsible for
internal distribution in the buildings themselves.

The GPO feed was usually in the basement and was powered from
a dedicated unmetered feed. The GPO were still commissioning
the system and instances occured where the signals were lost.
There was no possibility of running round the City of London
in a vehicle - everything was done on foot. As the system
wasn't live, there were no useful phone calls from users who'd
lost their service so the only option was to tramp back along
the trunk route until the failure was located.

Level Measuring Sets with the required level of accuracy were
heavy in those days - we used the same kit as the GPO, so I
can attest to this from personal experience - so these outages
wwre far from popular for more than one reason!

Invariably, these outages were found to be caused by mains
failure. In their wisdom, the LEB had provided these feeds
with switched spurs. In those days, most large buildings in
the City had Housekeepers who usually had a flat on site.

The Housekeeper would walk around after everyubody had left
for the day, checking that all was well. If they included the
basement in their tour, the neon on the switched spur
instantly attracted attention, so they'd switch it off!

This became such a regular occurence that we got our own
electricians to visit every building and swap the switched
spur for an unswitched one and all the problems stopped!



--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Wednesday, 10 January 2018 19:47:06 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:07:13 -0000, Andrew wrote:

On 10/01/2018 09:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
Having said that though, her aggravation is justified, itit should have been
directed at the bodgers who fitted the system, and yes its mean as I found
out the other day, a local supposedly well appointed home has stopped
residents using the advertises wifi as they claim they are all streaming
films and using Amazon Echo devices. They now cut the link after a couple of
hours and require them to go to admin and get a new password. of course
this is really impossible so they now have to have their own broadband
installed as well, and many are trying to take the home to task about
advertising free wifi when its so limited.

Brian

I think you'll find the problem is watching live tv which puts the
wifi admin in a difficult legal position.

The only person in a legal position should be the end user.

But who is the end user ?

On Wednesday, 10 January 2018 19:48:25 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 19:42:45 -0000, wrote:

On Tuesday, 9 January 2018 21:19:53 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
This was a sheltered housing scheme in Nottingham. We look after the
communal TV system.
The last time we were there was because the mains sockets in the
hallways had been changed by the electricians for ones with keys so that
the tenants can't plug scooters in (how mean is that?).

Scooters in hallways are an obstruction and may be a fire hazard if they're charging, quite apart from the cost of the lecky.

Much better to have the old people unable to get to the shops. Get real.

yuo think old people use scooters ?
Have a guess at the average age of those delivering pizzas, and I bet if yuo take the avergare age of scooter and moped drivers it'll come out lower than the famous song by paul hardcastle.
You can work that one out for yuorself. (I have a good imagination)

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Scooters in hallways are an obstruction and may be a fire hazard if
they're charging, quite apart from the cost of the lecky.

Much better to have the old people unable to get to the shops. Get
real.

yuo think old people use scooters ? Have a guess at the average age of
those delivering pizzas, and I bet if yuo take the avergare age of
scooter and moped drivers it'll come out lower than the famous song by
paul hardcastle.

I've never ever seen a mobility scooter used by a delivery driver.

--
*How's my driving? Call 999*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/01/2018 19:42, wrote:

The real fault is with whoever allowed a critical system (ie telly) to be powered of a circuit shared by sockets accessible to untrained persons.

Yes, we have been asking for a dedicated supply for years.

Bill

On 10/01/2018 19:48, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Scooters in hallways are an obstruction and may be a fire hazard if
they're charging, quite apart from the cost of the lecky.

Much better to have the old people unable to get to the shops.* Get real.

The problem here is that there's nowhere else to charge the scooters. If
the scooter is taken into the flat it just about fills the hallway and
makes it difficult to get to the kitchen or to exit the flat.

If the tenants park the scooter in the corridor just outside the flat
they are told it's a fire hazard. The corridors are very wide. A scooter
would not be an obstruction. There is maintained lighting.


The real fault is with whoever allowed a critical system (ie telly) to
be powered of a circuit shared by sockets accessible to untrained
persons. (Even if the monkeys who broke things are nominally trained
persons.)

Bull**** of the 1st degree.* It's just lots of sockets on one circuit.

No, it's basic bad practice to put the TV system on a shared circuit. It
can cause all sorts of problems.

Bill

On 11/01/2018 08:15, jim wrote:

I read it as the TV distribution gear was on the same circuit as
the "secured" socketry...


Yes that's right. We've asked repeatedly for a dedicated supply.

Bill

On 11/01/2018 10:48, Terry Casey wrote:

The Housekeeper would walk around after everyubody had left
for the day, checking that all was well. If they included the
basement in their tour, the neon on the switched spur
instantly attracted attention, so they'd switch it off!

This became such a regular occurence that we got our own
electricians to visit every building and swap the switched
spur for an unswitched one and all the problems stopped!



Often we are given a 13A socket rather than a spur unit for the TV system.

We had a spate of these problems when the district heating on an estate
was being rebuilt. The plumbers would cheerfully disconnect our
equipment and connect their lights and kettles, then leave ours
disconnected at the end of the day.

It was happening time after time and we got fed up so we submitted
photographs and a detailed explanation to the owner. The plumbers had
all our call-out costs deducted from their payment. It was a lot of money.

Other causes of mains failure at various sites include:
1. Cleaner unplugs our mains to use kettle, does not reconnect after tea
has been made.
2. We found a blown 13A fuse in the plug. Since we always use 2A or 3A
fuses someone had stolen our fuse!
3. A squirrel committed suicide and blew the fuse.
4. A tenant somehow connected mains to their aerial socket. The socket
wasn't an isolated type. The 0.5mm three core mains lead at the head-end
was the only system earth. It burnt out all along its length and that
caused the mains to go off. This was in someone's loft, and it's a
miracle it didn't set the house on fire. I took a lot of pictures.
5. Underground work without checking the drawings.
6. District heating pipe leak in an underground duct. Flooded a repeater
down there. Head end transformer had a too-small fuse value.
7. Roof leak flooded the head-end. Caused the RCB to cut out.
8. Same, basically, but snow blew in because the underdrawings had
rotted away in places.
9. In a boiler room someone (halfwit hotel manager) fitted a double
adaptor in our mains socket so he could run a temporary illuminated
display in the corridor. Draped the wire over the boiler. A loop dropped
through a hole in the casing and touched the boiler. Wire melted.
10. TV amplifier was in a cabinet in the hallway. Tenant broke in and
connected a mains lead because his electricity had been cut off. Somehow
he tripped the supply.This was a few years ago; I don't think they cut
people off nowadays.
11. When the amp is under the stairs there's often straightforward
vandalism. They break in and smash everything up. Timers, door entry,
our supply, the lot.
12. With equipment in external wall boxes at reachable level there is
often vandalism or theft leading to the mains going off.

Bill

On 10/01/2018 20:30, newshound wrote:


Faced with that degree of incompetence my sympathies are rather with the
old lady.

What about us? We suffered abuse trauma. Our Paul will have to have
counseling. And extra beer.

Bill

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

snip

Since when did TV become an important circuit? Sure, keep the heart
monitors on a seperate circuit, but TV? Come on....

Shockingly, surprisingly you seem just for once to have totally missed
the point. It is not its importance that is the issue.

--

Roger Hayter

On 11/01/2018 17:49, Bill Wright wrote:
On 11/01/2018 10:48, Terry Casey wrote:

The Housekeeper would walk around after everyubody had left
for the day, checking that all was well. If they included the
basement in their tour, the neon on the switched spur
instantly attracted attention, so they'd switch it off!

This became such a regular occurence that we got our own
electricians to visit every building and swap the switched
spur for an unswitched one and all the problems stopped!

Often we are given a 13A socket rather than a spur unit for the TV system.

We had a spate of these problems when the district heating on an estate
was being rebuilt. The plumbers would cheerfully disconnect our
equipment and connect their lights and kettles, then leave ours
disconnected at the end of the day.

It was happening time after time and we got fed up so we submitted
photographs and a detailed explanation to the owner. The plumbers had
all our call-out costs deducted from their payment. It was a lot of money.

Other causes of mains failure at various sites include:
1. Cleaner unplugs our mains to use kettle, does not reconnect after tea
has been made.
2. We found a blown 13A fuse in the plug. Since we always use 2A or 3A
fuses someone had stolen our fuse!
3. A squirrel committed suicide and blew the fuse.
4. A tenant somehow connected mains to their aerial socket. The socket
wasn't an isolated type. The 0.5mm three core mains lead at the head-end
was the only system earth. It burnt out all along its length and that
caused the mains to go off. This was in someone's loft, and it's a
miracle it didn't set the house on fire. I took a lot of pictures.
5. Underground work without checking the drawings.
6. District heating pipe leak in an underground duct. Flooded a repeater
down there. Head end transformer had a too-small fuse value.
7. Roof leak flooded the head-end. Caused the RCB to cut out.
8. Same, basically, but snow blew in because the underdrawings had
rotted away in places.
9. In a boiler room someone (halfwit hotel manager) fitted a double
adaptor in our mains socket so he could run a temporary illuminated
display in the corridor. Draped the wire over the boiler. A loop dropped
through a hole in the casing and touched the boiler. Wire melted.
10. TV amplifier was in a cabinet in the hallway. Tenant broke in and
connected a mains lead because his electricity had been cut off. Somehow
he tripped the supply.This was a few years ago; I don't think they cut
people off nowadays.
11. When the amp is under the stairs there's often straightforward
vandalism. They break in and smash everything up. Timers, door entry,
our supply, the lot.
12. With equipment in external wall boxes at reachable level there is
often vandalism or theft leading to the mains going off.

This is why it's easier (though untidy) for flat dwellers to have
individual dishes/aerials.

--
Max Demian

On Thursday, 11 January 2018 18:38:33 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Since when did TV become an important circuit? Sure, keep the
heart monitors on a seperate circuit, but TV? Come on....

When you're old and miserable you don't give a damn about dying, but you don't want to miss Bargain Hunt.

Owain

On 11/01/2018 18:38, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

No, it's basic bad practice to put the TV system on a shared circuit. It
can cause all sorts of problems.

Since when did TV become an important circuit?* Sure, keep the heart
monitors on a seperate circuit, but TV?* Come on....


The TV system serves a wide area at some complexes. A system serving 400
dwellings, hospital beds, or cells, is 400 times more important than an
aerial serving one dwelling. TV is especially important for the
housebound, those stuck in hospital, or those incarcerated. Many TV
systems also carry pictures from CCTV cameras, so if the system goes off
security is compromised. Because of poor radio reception indoors in some
places many people use the system for FM, DAB or radio via Freesat. If
there's a spell of really bad weather or another semi-emergency people
need local radio.

Bill

On 11/01/2018 19:47, Max Demian wrote:

This is why it's easier (though untidy) for flat dwellers to have
individual dishes/aerials.


No, the best solution is to have TV system installed properly so these
problems can't occur. The installers of individual aerials and dishes
can cause a lot of expensive damage to the building.

Bill

On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 03:03:20 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 10 January 2018 19:48:25 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 19:42:45 -0000, wrote:

On Tuesday, 9 January 2018 21:19:53 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
This was a sheltered housing scheme in Nottingham. We look after the
communal TV system.
The last time we were there was because the mains sockets in the
hallways had been changed by the electricians for ones with keys so that
the tenants can't plug scooters in (how mean is that?).

Scooters in hallways are an obstruction and may be a fire hazard if they're charging, quite apart from the cost of the lecky.

Much better to have the old people unable to get to the shops. Get real.

yuo think old people use scooters ?
Have a guess at the average age of those delivering pizzas, and I bet if yuo take the avergare age of scooter and moped drivers it'll come out lower than the famous song by paul hardcastle.
You can work that one out for yuorself. (I have a good imagination)

Funniest post of the year so far.

--

On Thursday, 11 January 2018 14:21:09 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Scooters in hallways are an obstruction and may be a fire hazard if
they're charging, quite apart from the cost of the lecky.

Much better to have the old people unable to get to the shops. Get
real.

yuo think old people use scooters ? Have a guess at the average age of
those delivering pizzas, and I bet if yuo take the avergare age of
scooter and moped drivers it'll come out lower than the famous song by
paul hardcastle.

I've never ever seen a mobility scooter used by a delivery driver.

me neither but then again I know the differnce between a scooter and a mobility scooter having advised my dad about them, I didnlt get the two confused although the differnce between a moped and a scooter isn't always clear from their use.

http://www.motorscootershopper.com/moped-scooter.asp

For me the word mobility was the key when searching.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
I didnlt get the two confused although the differnce between a moped and
a scooter isn't always clear from their use.

The difference (in my day) was a moped was more akin to a bicycle or small
motorbike.
A scooter had much smaller wheels, and no oily bits on show.

Mopeds could also be driven at a younger age, due to being pedal cycles
with an engine added. Scooters never had this option.

--
*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/01/2018 02:09, Bill Wright wrote:
On 11/01/2018 19:47, Max Demian wrote:

This is why it's easier (though untidy) for flat dwellers to have
individual dishes/aerials.

No, the best solution is to have TV system installed properly so these
problems can't occur. The installers of individual aerials and dishes
can cause a lot of expensive damage to the building.

Yebbut you are (or were) in the business.

--
Max Demian

On Friday, 12 January 2018 13:26:55 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
I didnlt get the two confused although the differnce between a moped and
a scooter isn't always clear from their use.

The difference (in my day) was a moped was more akin to a bicycle or small
motorbike.
A scooter had much smaller wheels, and no oily bits on show.

Well a moped is actually a moterbike that can be peddaled hence the name motor-pedal so that's pretty much a fixed description.

Scooters aren't designed to be manually driven via pedals.

Mopeds could also be driven at a younger age, due to being pedal cycles
with an engine added. Scooters never had this option.

I don't think that is true unless yuo;re refering to unpowered scooters.

People also ask
How old do you have to be to ride a scooter?
If you're 16 years of age or older, and if your moped is not capable of driving faster than 20 MPH, you can ride without a license. To operate a motorized scooter you must be at least 16 years old and carry either an instruction permit or driver's license.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Mopeds could also be driven at a younger age, due to being pedal cycles
with an engine added. Scooters never had this option.

I don't think that is true unless yuo;re refering to unpowered scooters.

Yes, the regs have changed considerably over the years.

But you still seem to have problems realising that the word scooter is
used for a variety of devices. Since you lumped scooter and moped together.

--
*I tried to catch some fog, but I mist.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/01/2018 14:47, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/01/2018 02:09, Bill Wright wrote:
On 11/01/2018 19:47, Max Demian wrote:

This is why it's easier (though untidy) for flat dwellers to have
individual dishes/aerials.

No, the best solution is to have TV system installed properly so these
problems can't occur. The installers of individual aerials and dishes
can cause a lot of expensive damage to the building.

Yebbut you are (or were) in the business.


I'm biased! But at least you don't have to pay £145 pa to listen to me!

Bill