On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 08:17:04 +1100, Rod Speed
wrote:

"Norman Wells" wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2017 19:48, Rod Speed wrote:


"Norman Wells" wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2017 19:10, Rod Speed wrote:


"Norman Wells" wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2017 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:
Norman Wells wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Norman Wells wrote
Rod Speed wrote

The poms are actually stupid enough to have one bread
manufacturer that makes loaves that don?t fit in almost any
toaster.

Yes, it's called proper bread. You wouldn't understand,

I do actually, make my own in a bread machine.

But not actually stupid enough make
loaves that don?t fit in almost all toasters.

It's a difference of philosophy.

Its actually terminal stupidity.

Should toasters be made to accommodate bread, or should bread be
made to fit toasters.

I guess it depends on which you consider the more important.

What's important is that any toaster should be able
to toast any normal bread.

Well, that's the problem. It's not just that one manufacturer's bread
that is supersized. It's that many toasters cannot fully accommodate
slices from any large loaves.

I blame the EU myself.

Much more likely that the asian manufacturers havent
noticed that you lot are into obese loaves of bread.

No, ours are the proper size.

I prefer the vertical loaf bread machines.
Square slices that go in any toaster.

Whereas most sensible people can't be arsed,

Those are the fools that wouldn?t know a good
loaf of bread if it bit them on their lard arses.

and aren't as good as the professionals anyway.

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you
usually manage, and that?s saying something.

How can you make a sandwich with those funny things the French eat?

They arent into sandwiches.

They can't be, can they?

They have the bread they prefer to eat, stupid.

They tie their own hands behind their backs.

Even sillier and more pig

Mmmmm..... bacon sandwiches......


ignorant than you
usually manage, and that?s saying something.

"Yellow" wrote in message
T...

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 08:17:04 +1100, Rod Speed
wrote:

"Norman Wells" wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2017 19:48, Rod Speed wrote:


"Norman Wells" wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2017 19:10, Rod Speed wrote:


"Norman Wells" wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2017 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:
Norman Wells wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Norman Wells wrote
Rod Speed wrote

The poms are actually stupid enough to have one bread
manufacturer that makes loaves that don?t fit in almost any
toaster.

Yes, it's called proper bread. You wouldn't understand,

I do actually, make my own in a bread machine.

But not actually stupid enough make
loaves that don?t fit in almost all toasters.

It's a difference of philosophy.

Its actually terminal stupidity.

Should toasters be made to accommodate bread, or should bread be
made to fit toasters.

I guess it depends on which you consider the more important.

What's important is that any toaster should be able
to toast any normal bread.

Well, that's the problem. It's not just that one manufacturer's
bread
that is supersized. It's that many toasters cannot fully
accommodate
slices from any large loaves.

I blame the EU myself.

Much more likely that the asian manufacturers havent
noticed that you lot are into obese loaves of bread.

No, ours are the proper size.

I prefer the vertical loaf bread machines.
Square slices that go in any toaster.

Whereas most sensible people can't be arsed,

Those are the fools that wouldn?t know a good
loaf of bread if it bit them on their lard arses.

and aren't as good as the professionals anyway.

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you
usually manage, and that?s saying something.

How can you make a sandwich with those funny things the French eat?

They arent into sandwiches.

They can't be, can they?

They have the bread they prefer to eat, stupid.

They tie their own hands behind their backs.

Even sillier and more pig

Mmmmm..... bacon sandwiches......

==

Yummeeeeee!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Thursday, 28 December 2017 23:52:38 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 23:15:05 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:03:21 UTC, Norman Wells wrote:
On 28/12/2017 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:

Well, that's the problem. It's not just that one manufacturer's bread
that is supersized. It's that many toasters cannot fully accommodate
slices from any large loaves.

I blame the EU myself.

It's not the EU but if they pass energy use rules for toasters, the
obvious approach to conformance will be to reduce the slot size.

The idea that they considered energy rules for kettles is almost amusing.
Water takes the same amount to reach boiling no matter what you do, and
ambient heat loss is trivial.

And, of course, within limits, the faster you heat it the less heat is
lost.

Yes, so expect singed soggy toast. Trouble with politicians is they don't
understand the subjects they legislate on. Even folk that do screw up a
lot.


I was rather confining my comment to kettles. It may be more
reasonable to limit the power of toasters, to encourage makers to make
them more efficient. What they need is a certain temperature, rather
then any particular rate of heat supply.

They need both of course, if you want decent toast. Most people nowadays don't want to save 0.1p and get rubbish toast. On one hand it's easy to make toasters more efficient by putting a mirror behind the element, OTOH that would only result in their effectiveness falling to hopeless after 2 years, and is exactly the sort of thing meddling politics is likely to result in.


NT

On 28/12/2017 23:06, wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:03:21 UTC, Norman Wells wrote:
On 28/12/2017 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:

Well, that's the problem. It's not just that one manufacturer's bread
that is supersized. It's that many toasters cannot fully accommodate
slices from any large loaves.

I blame the EU myself.

It's not the EU but if they pass energy use rules for toasters, the obvious approach to conformance will be to reduce the slot size.

The idea that they considered energy rules for kettles is almost amusing. Water takes the same amount to reach boiling no matter what you do, and ambient heat loss is trivial.


* Variable heat kettles - not everyone needs boiling water (weird teas
for example);
* Quicker auto-off. It does not take all kettles of the same rating the
same amount of time to reach boiling and swithc off;
* Decreased minimum fill;
* Improved heat retaining insulation.

Bosch do one IIRC, for a price. As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity, I think it's a very good idea to take
a look at kettles.

Whether the EU does it, or the UK, I don't really care.


--
Cheers, Rob

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 11:59:19 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 28/12/2017 23:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:03:21 UTC, Norman Wells wrote:
On 28/12/2017 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:

Well, that's the problem. It's not just that one manufacturer's bread
that is supersized. It's that many toasters cannot fully accommodate
slices from any large loaves.

I blame the EU myself.

It's not the EU but if they pass energy use rules for toasters, the obvious approach to conformance will be to reduce the slot size.

The idea that they considered energy rules for kettles is almost amusing. Water takes the same amount to reach boiling no matter what you do, and ambient heat loss is trivial.


* Variable heat kettles - not everyone needs boiling water (weird teas
for example);
* Quicker auto-off. It does not take all kettles of the same rating the
same amount of time to reach boiling and swithc off;
* Decreased minimum fill;
* Improved heat retaining insulation.

Bosch do one IIRC, for a price. As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity, I think it's a very good idea to take
a look at kettles.

Whether the EU does it, or the UK, I don't really care.

2-3 minutes to boil 3x a day at 2.4kW. That's 0.24-0.36kWh/day or 3.1-4.7p/day = £11.38-£17 a year.
Now what are those features going to save, 50p? £1?
What are they going to cost? £10? £20?
How long is the kettle going to last?


NT

On 30/12/2017 12:15, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 11:59:19 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 28/12/2017 23:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:03:21 UTC, Norman Wells wrote:
On 28/12/2017 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:

Well, that's the problem. It's not just that one manufacturer's bread
that is supersized. It's that many toasters cannot fully accommodate
slices from any large loaves.

I blame the EU myself.

It's not the EU but if they pass energy use rules for toasters, the obvious approach to conformance will be to reduce the slot size.

The idea that they considered energy rules for kettles is almost amusing. Water takes the same amount to reach boiling no matter what you do, and ambient heat loss is trivial.


* Variable heat kettles - not everyone needs boiling water (weird teas
for example);
* Quicker auto-off. It does not take all kettles of the same rating the
same amount of time to reach boiling and swithc off;
* Decreased minimum fill;
* Improved heat retaining insulation.

Bosch do one IIRC, for a price. As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity, I think it's a very good idea to take
a look at kettles.

Whether the EU does it, or the UK, I don't really care.

2-3 minutes to boil 3x a day at 2.4kW. That's 0.24-0.36kWh/day or 3.1-4.7p/day = £11.38-£17 a year.
Now what are those features going to save, 50p? £1?
What are they going to cost? £10? £20?
How long is the kettle going to last?


NT


Wrong questions..

how much can you reduce the peaks in demand and will that save investing
in another electric mountain?

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:59:17 +0000, RJH wrote:

On 28/12/2017 23:06, wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:03:21 UTC, Norman Wells wrote:
On 28/12/2017 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:

Well, that's the problem. It's not just that one manufacturer's bread
that is supersized. It's that many toasters cannot fully accommodate
slices from any large loaves.

I blame the EU myself.

It's not the EU but if they pass energy use rules for toasters, the
obvious approach to conformance will be to reduce the slot size.

The idea that they considered energy rules for kettles is almost
amusing. Water takes the same amount to reach boiling no matter what
you do, and ambient heat loss is trivial.


* Variable heat kettles - not everyone needs boiling water (weird teas
for example);
* Quicker auto-off. It does not take all kettles of the same rating the
same amount of time to reach boiling and swithc off;
* Decreased minimum fill;
* Improved heat retaining insulation.

Bosch do one IIRC, for a price. As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity, I think it's a very good idea to take
a look at kettles.

We have the Bosch one. Very good.

Ours is boiled at least 12 times a day. Mostly, but not exclusively, by
me.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 30/12/2017 12:15, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 11:59:19 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 28/12/2017 23:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:03:21 UTC, Norman Wells wrote:
On 28/12/2017 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:

Well, that's the problem. It's not just that one manufacturer's bread
that is supersized. It's that many toasters cannot fully accommodate
slices from any large loaves.

I blame the EU myself.

It's not the EU but if they pass energy use rules for toasters, the obvious approach to conformance will be to reduce the slot size.

The idea that they considered energy rules for kettles is almost amusing. Water takes the same amount to reach boiling no matter what you do, and ambient heat loss is trivial.


* Variable heat kettles - not everyone needs boiling water (weird teas
for example);
* Quicker auto-off. It does not take all kettles of the same rating the
same amount of time to reach boiling and swithc off;
* Decreased minimum fill;
* Improved heat retaining insulation.

Bosch do one IIRC, for a price. As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity, I think it's a very good idea to take
a look at kettles.

Whether the EU does it, or the UK, I don't really care.

2-3 minutes to boil 3x a day at 2.4kW. That's 0.24-0.36kWh/day or 3.1-4.7p/day = £11.38-£17 a year.

Even I, alone, use a kettle more than that. So far today I've had about
5 hot drinks. 5 mins, 3kW kettle - 0.25kW. That's a minimum one cup
250ml fill with an effective auto-off. Double that for an
inefficient-fill kettle. Double that for a family. Then assume they stop
drinking hot drinks at my rate at midday, and no single 250ml drinks. So
in the region of 1kW a day?

In my case, only a few domestic appliances use more electricity over a
week. The shower. Maybe the tumble dryer if I use it. Maybe the oven. Of
course, if you heat water or space heat with electricity, the kettle
will be the least of your worries.

And people use kettles for more than drinks. My partner fills the kettle
for boiling veg and pasta in a pan.

Now what are those features going to save, 50p? £1?

That's only one variable. There's the natural resources depleted,
particulate added to the air, nuclear waste to dispose of, recyclables
to, well, pay for (etc). If it's all about you, and only you, then yes,
agreed, it probably will never 'pay'.

What are they going to cost? £10? £20?

As things stand, more than that. With economies of scale, and (who
knows?) state intervention, much less.

How long is the kettle going to last?

These questions are surely the point of looking into it in the first
place. I don't know the answers, but think it's a good question to ask.


--
Cheers, Rob

On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

--
Cheers, Rob

On 30/12/2017 13:16, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

Which confirms (assuming that this site isn't itself utter ********)
that your assertion is indeed utter ********. Are you harry?


Not sure how long you want to do this. Do you want to discredit the site
first? Or do you want me to give you the average consumption across
appliances, and compare that with the kettle? (I think we're on safe
ground to assume that you consider CO2 to be irrelevant, so I'd just
work out electricity for you). Then you can discredit the site without
any reason?

Or is it the original question that concerns you? If you don't like
asking questions because the answer might rock your world, just say so.

Your call. Think I can guess :-)

And I'm not Harry BTW :-)

--
Cheers, Rob

Huge wrote:

On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.

May depend on how much tea you drink.
--

Roger Hayter

On 30/12/2017 14:20, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 13:16, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

Which confirms (assuming that this site isn't itself utter ********)
that your assertion is indeed utter ********. Are you harry?


Not sure how long you want to do this.

Oh, it's going no further than this post. I don't debate with the innumerate.


Rich.

*plonk*


Even if my first guess was an exaggeration, my second was spot on.

Result!

--
Cheers, Rob

On 28/12/2017 14:34, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 04:19:50 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

snip

Ours has been with us a long time, so it has worked out not too bad price-
wise. Only one replacement element (due to son poking it too hard).

I got it partly because it doesn't have a 'jam toast and continue
heating' mode. The clockwork could fail, I suppose, but unlikely to do so
halfway through making toast.


I inherited one 10 years back - it was already at least 10 years old.
Still going strong, used daily. Agreed, though, the price is a bit
off-putting.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 30 Dec 2017 13:08:48 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

We have the Bosch one. Very good.

Ours is boiled at least 12 times a day. Mostly, but not exclusively, by
me.

What about these new-fangled hot taps with vacuum storage I believe;
Are they any good?
- Mike

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 12:30:59 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:15, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 11:59:19 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 28/12/2017 23:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:03:21 UTC, Norman Wells wrote:
On 28/12/2017 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:

Well, that's the problem. It's not just that one manufacturer's bread
that is supersized. It's that many toasters cannot fully accommodate
slices from any large loaves.

I blame the EU myself.

It's not the EU but if they pass energy use rules for toasters, the obvious approach to conformance will be to reduce the slot size.

The idea that they considered energy rules for kettles is almost amusing. Water takes the same amount to reach boiling no matter what you do, and ambient heat loss is trivial.


* Variable heat kettles - not everyone needs boiling water (weird teas
for example);
* Quicker auto-off. It does not take all kettles of the same rating the
same amount of time to reach boiling and swithc off;
* Decreased minimum fill;
* Improved heat retaining insulation.

Bosch do one IIRC, for a price. As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity, I think it's a very good idea to take
a look at kettles.

Whether the EU does it, or the UK, I don't really care.

2-3 minutes to boil 3x a day at 2.4kW. That's 0.24-0.36kWh/day or 3.1-4..7p/day = £11.38-£17 a year.
Now what are those features going to save, 50p? £1?
What are they going to cost? £10? £20?
How long is the kettle going to last?


NT


Wrong questions..

how much can you reduce the peaks in demand and will that save investing
in another electric mountain?

Those features aren't going to make a significant difference to peak power use. Let's be optimistic and say a quicker stat cuts 5 seconds off boil time out of 2-3mins, that's at best 1.7-2.5% trimmed off the peak. 40 million superkettles is an extra £400-800 million.


NT

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:10:39 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:15, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 11:59:19 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 28/12/2017 23:06, tabbypurr wrote:

It's not the EU but if they pass energy use rules for toasters, the obvious approach to conformance will be to reduce the slot size.

The idea that they considered energy rules for kettles is almost amusing. Water takes the same amount to reach boiling no matter what you do, and ambient heat loss is trivial.


* Variable heat kettles - not everyone needs boiling water (weird teas
for example);
* Quicker auto-off. It does not take all kettles of the same rating the
same amount of time to reach boiling and swithc off;
* Decreased minimum fill;
* Improved heat retaining insulation.

Bosch do one IIRC, for a price. As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity, I think it's a very good idea to take
a look at kettles.

Whether the EU does it, or the UK, I don't really care.

2-3 minutes to boil 3x a day at 2.4kW. That's 0.24-0.36kWh/day or 3.1-4..7p/day = £11.38-£17 a year.

Even I, alone, use a kettle more than that. So far today I've had about

some people use it more, some less, many not at all. I picked an estimated average.

5 hot drinks. 5 mins, 3kW kettle - 0.25kW. That's a minimum one cup
250ml fill with an effective auto-off. Double that for an
inefficient-fill kettle. Double that for a family. Then assume they stop

No, it does not take 20 minutes to boil a full kettle. Or anywhere near. Maybe it does with a 600W kettle! (I had one once, rarely used it)

drinking hot drinks at my rate at midday, and no single 250ml drinks. So
in the region of 1kW a day?

In my case, only a few domestic appliances use more electricity over a
week. The shower. Maybe the tumble dryer if I use it. Maybe the oven. Of
course, if you heat water or space heat with electricity, the kettle
will be the least of your worries.

And people use kettles for more than drinks. My partner fills the kettle
for boiling veg and pasta in a pan.

Now what are those features going to save, 50p? £1?

That's only one variable. There's the natural resources depleted,
particulate added to the air, nuclear waste to dispose of, recyclables
to, well, pay for (etc). If it's all about you, and only you, then yes,
agreed, it probably will never 'pay'.

making all those pricey superkettles will result in lots of resources & pollution.

What are they going to cost? £10? £20?

As things stand, more than that.

ouch

With economies of scale, and (who
knows?) state intervention, much less.

now that's funny.

How long is the kettle going to last?

These questions are surely the point of looking into it in the first
place. I don't know the answers, but think it's a good question to ask.

No you don't. Some people know enough about the topic to realise this is not something that should ever have been suggested to the politicos as something to be regulated.


NT

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:30:33 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 13:16, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

Which confirms (assuming that this site isn't itself utter ********)
that your assertion is indeed utter ********. Are you harry?


Not sure how long you want to do this. Do you want to discredit the site
first? Or do you want me to give you the average consumption across
appliances, and compare that with the kettle? (I think we're on safe

Their claim that the average kettle boils 4.2 litres a day seems rather excessive.


NT

wrote:

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:30:33 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 13:16, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

Which confirms (assuming that this site isn't itself utter ********)
that your assertion is indeed utter ********. Are you harry?


Not sure how long you want to do this. Do you want to discredit the site
first? Or do you want me to give you the average consumption across
appliances, and compare that with the kettle? (I think we're on safe

Their claim that the average kettle boils 4.2 litres a day seems rather
excessive.


NT

Ours does easily twice that. In fact, rather more, but I am discounting
the amount boiled by people who habitually overfill it for the task at
hand.


--

Roger Hayter

On 30/12/17 18:31, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:30:33 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 13:16, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

Which confirms (assuming that this site isn't itself utter ********)
that your assertion is indeed utter ********. Are you harry?


Not sure how long you want to do this. Do you want to discredit the site
first? Or do you want me to give you the average consumption across
appliances, and compare that with the kettle? (I think we're on safe

Their claim that the average kettle boils 4.2 litres a day seems rather excessive.


i doubt mine boils a single litre


NT



--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

On 28/12/17 15:41, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-28, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 04:19:50 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Thursday, 28 December 2017 09:02:44 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:

[24 lines snipped]

A proper Dualit has always allowed that.

For a long time all toasters allowed it. And the old Dualits, nice as
they are, are very overpriced.

Actually, they are a bargain. Ours has been running fine for at least 17
years (although I'm considering getting it a new timer), whereas all the
cack we had before had a lifetime such that I would have bought at least
10 of them by now.


The Roll-Royce of toasters.

I got mine 'free' with some sort of points for using my debit card. That
was around 25 years ago. It got some new elements this year, though
having taken it apart to fit them and removed the bit of wedged in
toast/carbon I think the old ones are still serviceable. But the new
ones have a mica covering to the wires which will prevent that sort of
thing in future.
Taking it apart I can see why they are expensive, rather too labour
intensive an assembly process.


--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 20:02:32 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:30:33 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 13:16, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

Which confirms (assuming that this site isn't itself utter ********)
that your assertion is indeed utter ********. Are you harry?


Not sure how long you want to do this. Do you want to discredit the site
first? Or do you want me to give you the average consumption across
appliances, and compare that with the kettle? (I think we're on safe

Their claim that the average kettle boils 4.2 litres a day seems rather
excessive.


NT

Ours does easily twice that. In fact, rather more, but I am discounting
the amount boiled by people who habitually overfill it for the task at
hand.

a sample of one is immaterial

On 30/12/2017 18:31, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:30:33 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 13:16, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

Which confirms (assuming that this site isn't itself utter ********)
that your assertion is indeed utter ********. Are you harry?


Not sure how long you want to do this. Do you want to discredit the site
first? Or do you want me to give you the average consumption across
appliances, and compare that with the kettle? (I think we're on safe

Their claim that the average kettle boils 4.2 litres a day seems rather excessive.


Mmmm, yes. I'm really not sure. Anecdotally I'd say it's an
underestimate. Kettles hold about 1.7l. So about 5 half-kettle boils a
day. In a household of three, I'd suppose that's not a wild assumption.
And household sizes are going down - so more kettles.

Pretty much everyone I know puts far more water than needed into a
kettle when making a drink. At work they habitually brim it - and I
share that kettle with half a dozen natural scientists. But then my
little social and work circle seem to drink far more hot drinks than
anyone else. And do weird things like use the kettle to boil water to
fill a saucepan to cook veg, pasta etc.

But that really is my point - we don't know the answers to a lot of
this. And far from EU research being amusing or trivial, I think it's a
good idea to look into it. I'd suggest the kettle is, by household, a
top 10, and in a lot of cases top 5, consumer of domestic electricity.

Apply any efficiencies over 28m UK households and in my view the
potential is significant. Of course, I've been wrong before :-)


--
Cheers, Rob

On 30/12/2017 18:27, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:10:39 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:15, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 11:59:19 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 28/12/2017 23:06, tabbypurr wrote:

It's not the EU but if they pass energy use rules for toasters, the obvious approach to conformance will be to reduce the slot size.

The idea that they considered energy rules for kettles is almost amusing. Water takes the same amount to reach boiling no matter what you do, and ambient heat loss is trivial.


* Variable heat kettles - not everyone needs boiling water (weird teas
for example);
* Quicker auto-off. It does not take all kettles of the same rating the
same amount of time to reach boiling and swithc off;
* Decreased minimum fill;
* Improved heat retaining insulation.

Bosch do one IIRC, for a price. As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity, I think it's a very good idea to take
a look at kettles.

Whether the EU does it, or the UK, I don't really care.

2-3 minutes to boil 3x a day at 2.4kW. That's 0.24-0.36kWh/day or 3.1-4.7p/day = £11.38-£17 a year.

Even I, alone, use a kettle more than that. So far today I've had about

some people use it more, some less, many not at all. I picked an estimated average.

5 hot drinks. 5 mins, 3kW kettle - 0.25kW. That's a minimum one cup
250ml fill with an effective auto-off. Double that for an
inefficient-fill kettle. Double that for a family. Then assume they stop

No, it does not take 20 minutes to boil a full kettle. Or anywhere near. Maybe it does with a 600W kettle! (I had one once, rarely used it)


Takes about 1 minute/250ml in a 3kW kettle. 1.25l takes 5 minutes, which
equals about 0.25kW (3kW/(5/60)).

snip

These questions are surely the point of looking into it in the first
place. I don't know the answers, but think it's a good question to ask.

No you don't. Some people know enough about the topic to realise this is not something that should ever have been suggested to the politicos as something to be regulated.


Ah - some people. Do you know who they are? Although I didn't intend to
derail this into some sort of ideological battle. Just something I think
worthy of independent academically rigorous research.

--
Cheers, Rob

wrote:

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 20:02:32 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:30:33 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 13:16, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

Which confirms (assuming that this site isn't itself utter ********)
that your assertion is indeed utter ********. Are you harry?


Not sure how long you want to do this. Do you want to discredit the site
first? Or do you want me to give you the average consumption across
appliances, and compare that with the kettle? (I think we're on safe

Their claim that the average kettle boils 4.2 litres a day seems rather
excessive.


NT

Ours does easily twice that. In fact, rather more, but I am discounting
the amount boiled by people who habitually overfill it for the task at
hand.

a sample of one is immaterial

Nevertheless part of a diverse population which will have a population
mean that may be somewhat higher than *your* sample of one.


--

Roger Hayter

On 31/12/17 10:50, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 18:27, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:10:39 UTC, RJHÂ* wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:15, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 11:59:19 UTC, RJHÂ* wrote:
On 28/12/2017 23:06, tabbypurr wrote:

It's not the EU but if they pass energy use rules for toasters,
the obvious approach to conformance will be to reduce the slot size.

The idea that they considered energy rules for kettles is almost
amusing. Water takes the same amount to reach boiling no matter
what you do, and ambient heat loss is trivial.


* Variable heat kettles - not everyone needs boiling water (weird teas
for example);
* Quicker auto-off. It does not take all kettles of the same rating
the
same amount of time to reach boiling and swithc off;
* Decreased minimum fill;
* Improved heat retaining insulation.

Bosch do one IIRC, for a price. As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity, I think it's a very good idea to
take
a look at kettles.

Whether the EU does it, or the UK, I don't really care.

2-3 minutes to boil 3x a day at 2.4kW. That's 0.24-0.36kWh/day or
3.1-4.7p/day = £11.38-£17 a year.

Even I, alone, use a kettle more than that. So far today I've had about

some people use it more, some less, many not at all. I picked an
estimated average.

5 hot drinks. 5 mins, 3kW kettle - 0.25kW. That's a minimum one cup
250ml fill with an effective auto-off. Double that for an
inefficient-fill kettle. Double that for a family. Then assume they stop

No, it does not take 20 minutes to boil a full kettle. Or anywhere
near. Maybe it does with a 600W kettle! (I had one once, rarely used it)


Takes about 1 minute/250ml in a 3kW kettle. 1.25l takes 5 minutes, which
equals about 0.25kW (3kW/(5/60)).

snip

These questions are surely the point of looking into it in the first
place. I don't know the answers, but think it's a good question to ask.

No you don't. Some people know enough about the topic to realise this
is not something that should ever have been suggested to the politicos
as something to be regulated.


Ah - some people. Do you know who they are? Although I didn't intend to
derail this into some sort of ideological battle. Just something I think
worthy of independent academically rigorous research.



Of course no one dies the basic maths - who actually CAN do maths these
days?

1 liter of water takes 1000 calorooes to raise it 1 degree C so to get
from - say - 5C to 100C is 95,000 calories. about 110 watt hors. Or at -
say a renewable electricity prce of 15p a unit, a penny and a half or
thereabouts.

And will take most of that off your heating bill anyway.


Given that most people boil a lot less thana liter, the realitry is that
it probably costs you a penny every time you boil a kettle, some of
which you get back on heating bills

I boil about 3-4 kettles a day, so it costs me at most 3p a day. or
£10.50 a year.

Big ****ing deal. is that REALLY worth regulating?




--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On 30/12/2017 18:31, wrote:

Their claim that the average kettle boils 4.2 litres a day seems rather excessive.


Ours does at least ten times that.

On 30/12/2017 18:22, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 12:30:59 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:15, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 11:59:19 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 28/12/2017 23:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:03:21 UTC, Norman Wells
wrote:
On 28/12/2017 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:

Well, that's the problem. It's not just that one
manufacturer's bread that is supersized. It's that many
toasters cannot fully accommodate slices from any large
loaves.

I blame the EU myself.

It's not the EU but if they pass energy use rules for
toasters, the obvious approach to conformance will be to
reduce the slot size.

The idea that they considered energy rules for kettles is
almost amusing. Water takes the same amount to reach boiling
no matter what you do, and ambient heat loss is trivial.


* Variable heat kettles - not everyone needs boiling water
(weird teas for example); * Quicker auto-off. It does not take
all kettles of the same rating the same amount of time to reach
boiling and swithc off; * Decreased minimum fill; * Improved
heat retaining insulation.

Bosch do one IIRC, for a price. As (I'd guess) one of the
biggest consumers of domestic electricity, I think it's a very
good idea to take a look at kettles.

Whether the EU does it, or the UK, I don't really care.

2-3 minutes to boil 3x a day at 2.4kW. That's 0.24-0.36kWh/day or
3.1-4.7p/day = £11.38-£17 a year. Now what are those features
going to save, 50p? £1? What are they going to cost? £10? £20?
How long is the kettle going to last?


NT


Wrong questions..

how much can you reduce the peaks in demand and will that save
investing in another electric mountain?

Those features aren't going to make a significant difference to peak
power use. Let's be optimistic and say a quicker stat cuts 5 seconds
off boil time out of 2-3mins, that's at best 1.7-2.5% trimmed off the
peak. 40 million superkettles is an extra £400-800 million.

No it isn't.
Once all kettles have to meet the regs the price drops as they no longer
have a USP that allows them to charge more.
The actual cost of doing things like insulating kettles is minimal and
improving the stat is even less.

RJH wrote:

On 30/12/2017 18:31, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:30:33 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 13:16, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

Which confirms (assuming that this site isn't itself utter ********)
that your assertion is indeed utter ********. Are you harry?


Not sure how long you want to do this. Do you want to discredit the site
first? Or do you want me to give you the average consumption across
appliances, and compare that with the kettle? (I think we're on safe

Their claim that the average kettle boils 4.2 litres a day seems rather
excessive.


Mmmm, yes. I'm really not sure. Anecdotally I'd say it's an
underestimate. Kettles hold about 1.7l. So about 5 half-kettle boils a
day. In a household of three, I'd suppose that's not a wild assumption.
And household sizes are going down - so more kettles.

Pretty much everyone I know puts far more water than needed into a
kettle when making a drink. At work they habitually brim it - and I
share that kettle with half a dozen natural scientists. But then my
little social and work circle seem to drink far more hot drinks than
anyone else. And do weird things like use the kettle to boil water to
fill a saucepan to cook veg, pasta etc.

That's not weird, with electric hobs anyway. It definitely saves time,
and probably energy. But definitely saves time if you want to heat a
lot of water quickly, say for pasta.



But that really is my point - we don't know the answers to a lot of
this. And far from EU research being amusing or trivial, I think it's a
good idea to look into it. I'd suggest the kettle is, by household, a
top 10, and in a lot of cases top 5, consumer of domestic electricity.

Apply any efficiencies over 28m UK households and in my view the
potential is significant. Of course, I've been wrong before :-)


--

Roger Hayter

On 31/12/17 11:35, Roger Hayter wrote:
RJH wrote:

On 30/12/2017 18:31, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:30:33 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 13:16, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

Which confirms (assuming that this site isn't itself utter ********)
that your assertion is indeed utter ********. Are you harry?


Not sure how long you want to do this. Do you want to discredit the site
first? Or do you want me to give you the average consumption across
appliances, and compare that with the kettle? (I think we're on safe

Their claim that the average kettle boils 4.2 litres a day seems rather
excessive.


Mmmm, yes. I'm really not sure. Anecdotally I'd say it's an
underestimate. Kettles hold about 1.7l. So about 5 half-kettle boils a
day. In a household of three, I'd suppose that's not a wild assumption.
And household sizes are going down - so more kettles.

Pretty much everyone I know puts far more water than needed into a
kettle when making a drink. At work they habitually brim it - and I
share that kettle with half a dozen natural scientists. But then my
little social and work circle seem to drink far more hot drinks than
anyone else. And do weird things like use the kettle to boil water to
fill a saucepan to cook veg, pasta etc.

That's not weird, with electric hobs anyway. It definitely saves time,
and probably energy. But definitely saves time if you want to heat a
lot of water quickly, say for pasta.



But that really is my point - we don't know the answers to a lot of
this. And far from EU research being amusing or trivial, I think it's a
good idea to look into it. I'd suggest the kettle is, by household, a
top 10, and in a lot of cases top 5, consumer of domestic electricity.


What a misleading statement


Lets see.
1. Washing machines tumble driers and dishwashers 65%
1. Lighting - 30%
2. TV - 4%
3. Computers and smart **** 0.5%
4. Electric blankets 0.3%
5. Toasters 0.1%
6. Alarm system 0.05%
7. Vacuum cleaner 0.025%
9. Power tools 0.024%
10. Kettle 0.001%

Golly! Being in the top ten really is significant isn't it?



Apply any efficiencies over 28m UK households and in my view the
potential is significant. Of course, I've been wrong before :-)




--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On Sunday, 31 December 2017 10:20:34 UTC, RJH wrote:

But that really is my point - we don't know the answers to a lot of
this. And far from EU research being amusing or trivial, I think it's a
good idea to look into it.

It would be if we didn't know whether it was a useful avenue to go down. In reality it's trivial to see that it's not.

I'd suggest the kettle is, by household, a
top 10, and in a lot of cases top 5, consumer of domestic electricity.

Rank is immaterial, costs & savings are the point

Apply any efficiencies over 28m UK households and in my view the
potential is significant. Of course, I've been wrong before :-)

Of course one woud be applying the losses over 28m households plus lots of businesses.


NT

On Sunday, 31 December 2017 10:50:49 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 18:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:10:39 UTC, RJH wrote:

These questions are surely the point of looking into it in the first
place. I don't know the answers, but think it's a good question to ask.

No you don't. Some people know enough about the topic to realise this is not something that should ever have been suggested to the politicos as something to be regulated.


Ah - some people. Do you know who they are? Although I didn't intend to

engineers


NT

derail this into some sort of ideological battle. Just something I think
worthy of independent academically rigorous research.

On Sunday, 31 December 2017 11:07:08 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/12/17 10:50, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 18:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:10:39 UTC, RJHÂ* wrote:

These questions are surely the point of looking into it in the first
place. I don't know the answers, but think it's a good question to ask.

No you don't. Some people know enough about the topic to realise this
is not something that should ever have been suggested to the politicos
as something to be regulated.


Ah - some people. Do you know who they are? Although I didn't intend to
derail this into some sort of ideological battle. Just something I think
worthy of independent academically rigorous research.



Of course no one dies the basic maths - who actually CAN do maths these
days?

1 liter of water takes 1000 calorooes to raise it 1 degree C so to get
from - say - 5C to 100C is 95,000 calories. about 110 watt hors. Or at -
say a renewable electricity prce of 15p a unit, a penny and a half or
thereabouts.

And will take most of that off your heating bill anyway.


Given that most people boil a lot less thana liter, the realitry is that
it probably costs you a penny every time you boil a kettle, some of
which you get back on heating bills

I boil about 3-4 kettles a day, so it costs me at most 3p a day. or
£10.50 a year.

Big ****ing deal. is that REALLY worth regulating?

Any kettle efficiency improvements will come with a slew of inspectors, payments to government, new criminal offfences and more unnecessary restrictions on what one can do. It's just one more upfront expense every business will be required to spend pointlessly on.


NT

On 31/12/17 12:24, wrote:
On Sunday, 31 December 2017 10:50:49 UTC, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 18:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:10:39 UTC, RJH wrote:

These questions are surely the point of looking into it in the first
place. I don't know the answers, but think it's a good question to ask.

No you don't. Some people know enough about the topic to realise this is not something that should ever have been suggested to the politicos as something to be regulated.


Ah - some people. Do you know who they are? Although I didn't intend to

engineers


White heterosexual Male geeks. The people who built the world you live
in and keep it running.

No one to be concerned about.


NT

derail this into some sort of ideological battle. Just something I think
worthy of independent academically rigorous research.


--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 31/12/2017 12:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


What a misleading statement


Lets see.
1. Washing machines tumble driers and dishwashers 65%
1. Lighting - 30%
2. TV - 4%
3. Computers and smart **** 0.5%
4. Electric blankets 0.3%
5. Toasters 0.1%
6. Alarm system 0.05%
7. Vacuum cleaner 0.025%
9. Power tools 0.024%
10. Kettle 0.001%

Golly! Being in the top ten really is significant isn't it?

Of course the above are just made up figures and of no use what so ever.

On Sunday, 31 December 2017 11:29:44 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 30/12/2017 18:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Those features aren't going to make a significant difference to peak
power use. Let's be optimistic and say a quicker stat cuts 5 seconds
off boil time out of 2-3mins, that's at best 1.7-2.5% trimmed off the
peak. 40 million superkettles is an extra £400-800 million.

No it isn't.
Once all kettles have to meet the regs the price drops as they no longer
have a USP that allows them to charge more.
The actual cost of doing things like insulating kettles is minimal and
improving the stat is even less.

Insulation would need to be 100% nonabsorbent, and would require a twinwall construction. A quicker stat would require electronic control. Ability to cut off at say 80C requires electronic controls. It can all be done but it would multiply the cost.

Mass production reduces cost, but only to a point. Hence I said an extra £10-20 rather than the much higher price of such things today. And of course the frequent failures of the electronics would mean more kettles being bought, adding costs yet again.


NT

On Sun, 31 Dec 2017 12:10:56 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

1. Washing machines tumble driers and dishwashers 65%
1. Lighting - 30%
2. TV - 4%
3. Computers and smart **** 0.5%

I suspect we aren't typical. We use about 14kWh/day on computer equipment.
--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 31/12/2017 12:34, wrote:
On Sunday, 31 December 2017 11:29:44 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 30/12/2017 18:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Those features aren't going to make a significant difference to
peak power use. Let's be optimistic and say a quicker stat cuts 5
seconds off boil time out of 2-3mins, that's at best 1.7-2.5%
trimmed off the peak. 40 million superkettles is an extra
£400-800 million.

No it isn't. Once all kettles have to meet the regs the price drops
as they no longer have a USP that allows them to charge more. The
actual cost of doing things like insulating kettles is minimal and
improving the stat is even less.

Insulation would need to be 100% nonabsorbent, and would require a
twinwall construction. A quicker stat would require electronic
control. Ability to cut off at say 80C requires electronic controls.
It can all be done but it would multiply the cost.

Mass production reduces cost, but only to a point. Hence I said an
extra £10-20 rather than the much higher price of such things today.
And of course the frequent failures of the electronics would mean
more kettles being bought, adding costs yet again.


NT


Of course you can get all those features now and they don't retail for
more than kettles without those features.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beko-WKD630.../dp/B01NBINBHZ

I think that you do not understand how much stuff costs to make as
opposed to how much people will pay for it.

On 31/12/2017 11:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Of course no one dies the basic maths - who actually CAN do maths these
days?


Ahem :-)

1 liter of water takes 1000 calorooes to raise it 1 degree C so to get
from - say - 5C to 100C is 95,000 calories. about 110 watt hors. Or at -
say a renewable electricity prce of 15p a unit, a penny and a half or
thereabouts.


OK

And will take most of that off your heating bill anyway.


You seem to be mixing measures - do you heat your home with standard
rate electricity? And you heat your home in the summer? if so, OK. But
not everybody does (see later).


Given that most people boil a lot less thana liter, the realitry is that
it probably costs you a penny every time you boil a kettle, some of
which you get back on heating bills

Agreed


I boil about 3-4 kettles a day, so it costs me at most 3p a day. or
£10.50 a year.


Two things.

Firstly, what it costs you is not necessarily the same as it costs
everyone else. Household sizes and habits differ. When I'm at home I can
boil the kettle 15 times - and that's when it's just me. That carbon
site gives £16.90 pa - mind, I've no idea what data they use to produce
their assumptions.

Secondly, you have a fixed idea about costs. Money that you spend is
indeed a cost. But brings in a number of other costs - environmental as
well as economic. I can happily list them but I think you know what they
are.

You could also usefully scale your figure - £10 per household is £300
million a year in the UK (over 1 billion kg CO2). Just a 10% saving is
not trivial. An education campaign about filling kettles with the amount
of water needed might achieve that. Or buying the best type of kettle
for your use.

But there's little point trying to do anything if you don't understand
the problem - if indeed there is a problem.

Big ****ing deal. is that REALLY worth regulating?


Quite happy to have a separate discussion about regulation. But this
discussion is about research and finding an answer to a question. Do you
not think it'd be worth researching - say a £500,000 grant to a
university research team?

--
Cheers, Rob

On 31/12/2017 12:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/12/17 11:35, Roger Hayter wrote:
RJH wrote:

On 30/12/2017 18:31, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 December 2017 13:30:33 UTC, RJHÂ* wrote:
On 30/12/2017 13:16, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:
On 30/12/2017 12:05, Huge wrote:
On 2017-12-30, RJH wrote:

As (I'd guess) one of the biggest
consumers of domestic electricity,

What utter ********.


https://www.carbonfootprint.com/energyconsumption.html

Which confirms (assuming that this site isn't itself utter ********)
that your assertion is indeed utter ********. Are you harry?


Not sure how long you want to do this. Do you want to discredit the
site
first? Or do you want me to give you the average consumption across
appliances, and compare that with the kettle? (I think we're on safe

Their claim that the average kettle boils 4.2 litres a day seems rather
excessive.


Mmmm, yes. I'm really not sure. Anecdotally I'd say it's an
underestimate. Kettles hold about 1.7l. So about 5 half-kettle boils a
day. In a household of three, I'd suppose that's not a wild assumption.
And household sizes are going down - so more kettles.

Pretty much everyone I know puts far more water than needed into a
kettle when making a drink. At work they habitually brim it - and I
share that kettle with half a dozen natural scientists. But then my
little social and work circle seem to drink far more hot drinks than
anyone else. And do weird things like use the kettle to boil water to
fill a saucepan to cook veg, pasta etc.

That's not weird, with electric hobs anyway.Â*Â* It definitely saves time,
and probably energy.Â* But definitely saves time if you want to heat a
lot of water quickly, say for pasta.



But that really is my point - we don't know the answers to a lot of
this. And far from EU research being amusing or trivial, I think it's a
good idea to look into it. I'd suggest the kettle is, by household, a
top 10, and in a lot of cases top 5, consumer of domestic electricity.


What a misleading statement


Lets see.
1. Washing machines tumble driers and dishwashers 65%
1. Lighting - 30%
2. TV - 4%
3. Computers and smart **** 0.5%
4. Electric blankets 0.3%
5. Toasters 0.1%
6. Alarm system 0.05%
7. Vacuum cleaner 0.025%
9. Power tools 0.024%
10. Kettle 0.001%

Golly! Being in the top ten really is significant isn't it?


Still top 10 :-)

Extrapolating those carbon site figures (typical cost pa by appliance):

Microwave Oven £9.07
Dishwasher at 55°C £11.77
Washing Machine £11.78
Gas Hob £14.12
Standard Light Bulb 4 hrs/day £14.60
Kettle £16.90
Dishwasher at 65°C £19.44
Fridge-Freezer A ++ spec £20.60
Electric Oven £21.08
Fridge-Freezer A+ spec £27.00
Electric Hob £30.10
Electric Tumble Dryer £37.00
Fridge-Freezer A spec £40.80


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Cheers, Rob

On 31/12/2017 12:22, wrote:
On Sunday, 31 December 2017 10:20:34 UTC, RJH wrote:

But that really is my point - we don't know the answers to a lot of
this. And far from EU research being amusing or trivial, I think it's a
good idea to look into it.

It would be if we didn't know whether it was a useful avenue to go down. In reality it's trivial to see that it's not.



OK, thanks for explaining.


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Cheers, Rob