I just signed the petition, €œUK Government: No UK membership of an EU army.€� I think this is important. Will you sign it too?
Heres the link:

https://www.change.org/p/uk-governme...uiter=88586988
Thanks,

On Monday, 13 November 2017 16:36:12 UTC, harry wrote:
I just signed the petition, €œUK Government: No UK membership of an EU army.€� I think this is important. Will you sign it too?
Heres the link:

https://www.change.org/p/uk-governme...uiter=88586988
Thanks,

Signed because I agree we have NATO and the EU would get us to pay for the army if/when we leave the EU, anyway so best not to be part of it for the next 100+ years.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 13 November 2017 16:36:12 UTC, harry wrote:
I just signed the petition, ”UK Government: No UK membership of an EU
army.• I think this is important. Will you sign it too? Here‘s the
link:

https://www.change.org/p/uk-governme...uiter=88586988
Thanks,

Signed because I agree we have NATO and the EU would get us to pay for
the army if/when we leave the EU, anyway so best not to be part of it
for the next 100+ years.

NATO with Trump cuddling up to Putin?

I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army. In exactly
the same way as I see the need for the EU. With things as they are we
can't rely on the US.

--
*Beware - animal lover - brakes for pussy*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 13 November 2017 16:36:12 UTC, harry wrote:
I just signed the petition, €�UK Government: No UK membership of an EU
army.€¢ I think this is important. Will you sign it too? Here€˜s the
link:

https://www.change.org/p/uk-governme...uiter=88586988
Thanks,

Signed because I agree we have NATO and the EU would get us to pay for
the army if/when we leave the EU, anyway so best not to be part of it
for the next 100+ years.

NATO with Trump cuddling up to Putin?

Trump isn't NATO and NATO and the EU currently have 22 member countries in common.


I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.


In exactly
the same way as I see the need for the EU. With things as they are we
can't rely on the US.

Yeah like we can rely on the EU.

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:35:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.


Funny isn't it, first the EU 'can't agree to getting anything done'
(when the EU isn't a thing, it's all of us, the clue is in the title)
and when they do (finally) step in to ensure something actually does
get done (because 'we' can't sort it our between us) people whine
about that as well. ;-(

You know you don't want what you've got ... but don't know what you
actually want, only what you think you want (and you especially don't
know what would be best for you, you can only guess at that). ;-(

Best thing would be to plant the magic beans you may have swapped all
our futures for and see what (if anything) grows (or bin them and get
back to growing what we know works).

Cheers, T i m

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:55:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:35:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.


Funny isn't it, first the EU 'can't agree to getting anything done'
(when the EU isn't a thing, it's all of us, the clue is in the title)

It's not all of us when did you last get to vote on anything regarding the EU ?

and when they do (finally) step in to ensure something actually does
get done (because 'we' can't sort it our between us) people whine
about that as well. ;-(

Where are the EU nuclear weapons ?



You know you don't want what you've got ... but don't know what you
actually want,

Most do.

only what you think you want (and you especially don't
know what would be best for you, you can only guess at that). ;-(

and the EU is so expert at this are they ?

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:55:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:35:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.


Funny isn't it, first the EU 'can't agree to getting anything done'
(when the EU isn't a thing, it's all of us, the clue is in the title)
and when they do (finally) step in to ensure something actually does
get done (because 'we' can't sort it our between us) people whine
about that as well. ;-(

You know you don't want what you've got ... but don't know what you
actually want, only what you think you want (and you especially don't
know what would be best for you, you can only guess at that). ;-(

Best thing would be to plant the magic beans you may have swapped all
our futures for and see what (if anything) grows (or bin them and get
back to growing what we know works).

Cheers, T i m

So what can the EU with an army that NATO can't ?

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 08:32:04 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

So what can the EU with an army that NATO can't ?

Go to war against the USA? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 08:31:13 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:55:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:35:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.


Funny isn't it, first the EU 'can't agree to getting anything done'
(when the EU isn't a thing, it's all of us, the clue is in the title)

It's not all of us when did you last get to vote on anything regarding the EU ?

When would I have needed to?

and when they do (finally) step in to ensure something actually does
get done (because 'we' can't sort it our between us) people whine
about that as well. ;-(

Where are the EU nuclear weapons ?

Under the sea / hidden?



You know you don't want what you've got ... but don't know what you
actually want,

Most do.

Not according to most polls, even now. Given there were nearly as many
leave as remain (who then cancel out), those who are left didn't seem
to have an opinion either way. Hardly 'most' buy any sane standards.

only what you think you want (and you especially don't
know what would be best for you, you can only guess at that). ;-(

and the EU is so expert at this are they ?

The EU is *us* mate.

Clue. 'We' are in the EU. We (our representatives) are party to most
of the decisions made within it and all that concern us. Few decisions
are made by 'da management' alone.

Tell me ... are you encouraged by the general progress we are making
re leaving the EU? Does it look like it's all going smoothly ... or
even 'as hoped' by the Brexiteers (you can't say 'as planned' because
there were none).

What do we want (well a tiny minority of those who bothered) want out
of the EU?

When do we want it (well, we aren't sure what *it* actually means but
asap in any case). (*Because* the grass is *always* greener isn't it)?

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Signed because I agree we have NATO and the EU would get us to pay
for the army if/when we leave the EU, anyway so best not to be part
of it for the next 100+ years.

NATO with Trump cuddling up to Putin?

Trump isn't NATO and NATO and the EU currently have 22 member countries
in common.

The US is the major player in NATO. Trump is whinging that the US pays an
unfair part of the costs of NATO.


I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.

Very odd. 'They' seem pretty agreed the UK isn't going to get its own way
after Brexit. Despite us being told they'd soon roll over and do what they
were told to by the UK.


In exactly
the same way as I see the need for the EU. With things as they are we
can't rely on the US.

Yeah like we can rely on the EU.

--
*I got a job at a bakery because I kneaded dough.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 13 November 2017 16:36:12 UTC, harry wrote:
I just signed the petition, €�UK Government: No UK membership of an EU
army.€¢ I think this is important. Will you sign it too? Here€˜s the
link:

https://www.change.org/p/uk-governme...uiter=88586988
Thanks,

Signed because I agree we have NATO and the EU would get us to pay for
the army if/when we leave the EU, anyway so best not to be part of it
for the next 100+ years.

NATO with Trump cuddling up to Putin?

Trump isn't NATO

But given he is the US CinC, he does get to decide what
involvement the US troops have in a particular action.

and NATO and the EU currently have 22 member countries in common.

But they dont get to decide what happens with the
detail of who gets bombed etc or even what military
hardware is made available to NATO by the US.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money
because they'd never agree on getting anything done.

NATO doesnt work like that.

In exactly the same way as I see the need for the EU.
With things as they are we can't rely on the US.

Yeah like we can rely on the EU.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:55:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:35:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd
never agree on getting anything done.


Funny isn't it, first the EU 'can't agree to getting anything done'
(when the EU isn't a thing, it's all of us, the clue is in the title)
and when they do (finally) step in to ensure something actually does
get done (because 'we' can't sort it our between us) people whine
about that as well. ;-(

You know you don't want what you've got ... but don't know what you
actually want, only what you think you want (and you especially don't
know what would be best for you, you can only guess at that). ;-(

Best thing would be to plant the magic beans you may have swapped all
our futures for and see what (if anything) grows (or bin them and get
back to growing what we know works).

Cheers, T i m

So what can the EU with an army that NATO can't ?

Use it to do what Trump doesnt agree with.

On 14/11/2017 16:32, whisky-dave wrote:


So what can the EU with an army that NATO can't ?


Waste more money?
Squabble amongst themselves?

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 08:31:13 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:55:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:35:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd
never agree on getting anything done.


Funny isn't it, first the EU 'can't agree to getting anything done'
(when the EU isn't a thing, it's all of us, the clue is in the title)

It's not all of us when did you last get to vote on anything regarding the
EU ?

When would I have needed to?

and when they do (finally) step in to ensure something actually does
get done (because 'we' can't sort it our between us) people whine
about that as well. ;-(

Where are the EU nuclear weapons ?

Under the sea / hidden?



You know you don't want what you've got ... but don't know what you
actually want,

Most do.

Not according to most polls, even now. Given there were nearly as many
leave as remain (who then cancel out), those who are left didn't seem
to have an opinion either way. Hardly 'most' buy any sane standards.

only what you think you want (and you especially don't
know what would be best for you, you can only guess at that). ;-(

and the EU is so expert at this are they ?

The EU is *us* mate.

Clue. 'We' are in the EU.

For now.

We (our representatives) are party to most of the
decisions made within it and all that concern us.

Nope, even the EP only gets to approve or disapprove
what the unelected bureaucrats write legislation wise.

Few decisions are made by 'da management' alone.

Even sillier and more flagrantly dishonest than
you usually manage, and that's saying something.

Tell me ... are you encouraged by the general
progress we are making re leaving the EU?

Yep, Davis hasn't actually been stupid enough to
agree to any of the most outrageous demands that
Barnier has made and has demanded to see the
legal justification for any exit fee and hasn't got that.

Does it look like it's all going smoothly ...

Because the EU doesn't want Britain to leave, stupid.

or even 'as hoped' by the Brexiteers (you can't
say 'as planned' because there were none).

Because even Farage didn't expect the referendum result he got.

And there is a clear plan anyway. If the EU keeps playing silly
buggers to try to discourage any other country from leaving,
its hard BRexit and the EU gets to like that or lump it.

What do we want (well a tiny minority of those who bothered)

More of your flagrant dishonesty.

want out of the EU?

Britain being able to decide who it will allow to move to Britain,
Britain being able to decide all policy for itself and not have the
policy imposed by the EU. Not having to pay an immense amount
of money to the EU every ****ing year.

When do we want it

Sooner the better.

(well, we aren't sure what *it* actually means

More of your flagrant dishonesty.

but asap in any case). (*Because* the
grass is *always* greener isn't it)?

Even sillier and more flagrantly dishonest than
you usually manage, and that's saying something.

alan_m wrote
whisky-dave wrote

So what can the EU with an army that NATO can't ?

Waste more money?
Squabble amongst themselves?

Get to pay for it all themselves instead of having the US pay for most of
it.

On 14/11/17 20:22, alan_m wrote:
On 14/11/2017 16:32, whisky-dave wrote:


So what can the EU with an army that NATO can't ?


Waste more money?
Squabble amongst themselves?

Enforce martial law on nations that want to leave the EU of course!

It's not about external threats. It's about internal ones.

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On 15/11/2017 08:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/11/17 20:22, alan_m wrote:
On 14/11/2017 16:32, whisky-dave wrote:


So what can the EU with an army that NATO can't ?


Waste more money?
Squabble amongst themselves?

Enforce martial law on nations that want to leave the EU of course!

It's not about external threats. It's about internal ones.


More cr@p from brex****eers.

The UK is one of the main drivers for an EU army.
Its to get the rest of the EU to contribute to the defence rather than
just the ones that pay for NATO.
It was to save the UK money.
But lets not let facts influence the likes of TNP.

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:13:34 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 08:31:13 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:55:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:35:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.


Funny isn't it, first the EU 'can't agree to getting anything done'
(when the EU isn't a thing, it's all of us, the clue is in the title)

It's not all of us when did you last get to vote on anything regarding the EU ?

When would I have needed to?

When they moved the goal post, when they decided that free movement of WORKERS wasn't enough and decided that the free movement of anyone in the EU working or not was OK allowing anyone to reside in the country that handed out the most benifits or spoke the most common language.
This is why germany brought in 800,000 refugees the majoroty didn't speak german and wanted to come to an English speaking country, now some berliners are complaining that they only hear the English language spoken in their own country.



and when they do (finally) step in to ensure something actually does
get done (because 'we' can't sort it our between us) people whine
about that as well. ;-(

Where are the EU nuclear weapons ?

Under the sea / hidden?

Well we are leaving the French have a few nuclear warheads but the EU doesn't pay the UK anything, and apparently we can't use them without the USAs content anyway.
What would a Euro army do that NATO or the US can't, throw sharply pointed bagettes at the enermy.


You know you don't want what you've got ... but don't know what you
actually want,

Most do.

Not according to most polls, even now.

What pole has asked them.

What pole asked them do you want the UK to have it;s lowest level of home ownswership (considering people want to buy their council houses) you shoul,d know what the asnwer is.

Do you want your children to have less prospects than you do.


Given there were nearly as many
leave as remain (who then cancel out), those who are left didn't seem
to have an opinion either way.

They didn't vote for whatever reason.

Hardly 'most' buy any sane standards.

Most people know what they want other wise why have a vote in the first place or perhaps they knew their vote would be as meaningless as they usually are.

How many nurses and other govenrment workers (note how MPs arentl; considered govenrment workers) would accept a pay freeze for 7 years ?


only what you think you want (and you especially don't
know what would be best for you, you can only guess at that). ;-(

and the EU is so expert at this are they ?

The EU is *us* mate.

No the EU isn't *us* it's 28 countries did you not know that.


Clue. 'We' are in the EU.

We joind the EEC.

We (our representatives) are party to most
of the decisions made within it and all that concern us. Few decisions
are made by 'da management' alone.

Most are.

Tell me ... are you encouraged by the general progress we are making
re leaving the EU? Does it look like it's all going smoothly ...

No, but then again I wasn't expecting it to. Why would I assume that 27 countrties on one side would agree with the one country on the other side of the discussion. I can understand why the EU want us to pay as much as possible into their coffers as we ARE one of the biggest contributers to their 'state'.



or
even 'as hoped' by the Brexiteers (you can't say 'as planned' because
there were none).

Perhaps we should have left before we were countd as members of the EU.



What do we want (well a tiny minority of those who bothered) want out
of the EU?

51%+ since when was that a minority, when only 48% wanted to remain ?
Is 48% the majority now ?

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:28:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Signed because I agree we have NATO and the EU would get us to pay
for the army if/when we leave the EU, anyway so best not to be part
of it for the next 100+ years.

NATO with Trump cuddling up to Putin?

Trump isn't NATO and NATO and the EU currently have 22 member countries
in common.

The US is the major player in NATO. Trump is whinging that the US pays an
unfair part of the costs of NATO.

So perhaps trump will come out of NATO then, he's hinted at it.


I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.

Very odd. 'They' seem pretty agreed the UK isn't going to get its own way
after Brexit.

Thats' like a paedophile or any other bully talking to a child.
You;re part of this 'crew' and if you don't give us yuor dinner money we'll take it and possible more.


Despite us being told they'd soon roll over and do what they
were told to by the UK.

We won't know until after BREXIT will we.

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 20:22:43 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 14/11/2017 16:32, whisky-dave wrote:


So what can the EU with an army that NATO can't ?


Waste more money?
Squabble amongst themselves?

Yes they are rather good at that and if they can't revolve issues within their so called friends and partners and boarders I don't think they'll be much good with foes.
Maybe they'll insist North Korea pay them 100 billion too or else ??????

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:28:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Signed because I agree we have NATO and the EU would get us to pay
for the army if/when we leave the EU, anyway so best not to be part
of it for the next 100+ years.

NATO with Trump cuddling up to Putin?

Trump isn't NATO and NATO and the EU currently have 22 member countries
in common.

The US is the major player in NATO. Trump is whinging that the US pays an
unfair part of the costs of NATO.

So perhaps trump will come out of NATO then,

Not a chance, and it isnt his decision anyway.

he's hinted at it.

Nope, just more bluff.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money
because they'd never agree on getting anything done.

Very odd. 'They' seem pretty agreed the UK
isn't going to get its own way after Brexit.

Thats' like a paedophile or any other bully talking to a child.
You;re part of this 'crew' and if you don't give us yuor dinner
money we'll take it and possible more.

Despite us being told they'd soon roll over
and do what they were told to by the UK.

We won't know until after BREXIT will we.

On 15/11/2017 14:22, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:13:34 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 08:31:13 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:55:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:35:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.


Funny isn't it, first the EU 'can't agree to getting anything done'
(when the EU isn't a thing, it's all of us, the clue is in the title)

It's not all of us when did you last get to vote on anything regarding the EU ?

When would I have needed to?

When they moved the goal post, when they decided that free movement of WORKERS wasn't enough and decided that the free movement of anyone in the EU working or not was OK allowing anyone to reside in the country that handed out the most benifits or spoke the most common language.
This is why germany brought in 800,000 refugees the majoroty didn't speak german and wanted to come to an English speaking country, now some berliners are complaining that they only hear the English language spoken in their own country.



and when they do (finally) step in to ensure something actually does
get done (because 'we' can't sort it our between us) people whine
about that as well. ;-(

Where are the EU nuclear weapons ?

Under the sea / hidden?

Well we are leaving the French have a few nuclear warheads but the EU doesn't pay the UK anything, and apparently we can't use them without the USAs content anyway.

That seems rather unlikely. We are fully capable of analysing the
electronics of the delivery systems to ensure that there is no override.
Although we send missiles to the US for maintenance, we could actually
do it ourselves. We even have (and use) the facilities for manufacturing
our own warheads.

What would a Euro army do that NATO or the US can't, throw sharply pointed bagettes at the enermy.

It could have the advantage of being overseen at the point of potential
attack. It is always possible that the US could decide that it was not
in their interest to defend other NATO members.

You know you don't want what you've got ... but don't know what you
actually want,

Most do.

Not according to most polls, even now.

What pole has asked them.

What pole asked them do you want the UK to have it;s lowest level of home ownswership (considering people want to buy their council houses) you shoul,d know what the asnwer is.

Do you want your children to have less prospects than you do.

We have experienced our middle son not being allocated a place at the
same primary school as his brother, despite it being impossible for my
wife (I am at work 2 hours earlier) to be at two primary schools at the
same time and despite us having close links to the school - wife,
baptised at, confirmed at and attended the church there, wife's parent
attended there, we got married there, all three children baptised there,
wife and her sister attended the school, eldest son at the school,
eldest and middle son attended the nursery at the school. The reason was
purely down to applications for the 26 places rising from 23 to 56 in
only three years - due to a sudden influx of East Europeans to houses in
the area that had been split into multiple flats.

Given there were nearly as many
leave as remain (who then cancel out), those who are left didn't seem
to have an opinion either way.

They didn't vote for whatever reason.

Hardly 'most' buy any sane standards.

Most people know what they want other wise why have a vote in the first place or perhaps they knew their vote would be as meaningless as they usually are.

How many nurses and other govenrment workers (note how MPs arentl; considered govenrment workers) would accept a pay freeze for 7 years ?


only what you think you want (and you especially don't
know what would be best for you, you can only guess at that). ;-(

and the EU is so expert at this are they ?

The EU is *us* mate.

No the EU isn't *us* it's 28 countries did you not know that.


Clue. 'We' are in the EU.

We joind the EEC.

We joined the Common Market.

We (our representatives) are party to most
of the decisions made within it and all that concern us. Few decisions
are made by 'da management' alone.

Most are.

Tell me ... are you encouraged by the general progress we are making
re leaving the EU? Does it look like it's all going smoothly ...

No, but then again I wasn't expecting it to. Why would I assume that 27 countrties on one side would agree with the one country on the other side of the discussion. I can understand why the EU want us to pay as much as possible into their coffers as we ARE one of the biggest contributers to their 'state'.

How could it be expected to have progressed when the EU have dictated
(when they are no restriction in article 50) that payments and citizens;
rights must be agreed before anything else can even be discussed?

We should treat EU citizens that have moved here well, but the EU want
them to retain more rights than UK citizens and those to be overseen by
the ECJ. Both of which are unnaceptable. Those that have been here for
the required period can apply for UK citizenship and have the same
rights as everyone else and that is sufficient.

or
even 'as hoped' by the Brexiteers (you can't say 'as planned' because
there were none).

Perhaps we should have left before we were countd as members of the EU.



What do we want (well a tiny minority of those who bothered) want out
of the EU?

51%+ since when was that a minority, when only 48% wanted to remain ?
Is 48% the majority now ?

Yes. A mojority is a majority, but remainers seem to think that a small
margin is not enough and that nothing should therefore change.

SteveW

On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 22:59:45 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:
On 15/11/2017 14:22, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:13:34 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 08:31:13 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:55:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:35:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.


Funny isn't it, first the EU 'can't agree to getting anything done'
(when the EU isn't a thing, it's all of us, the clue is in the title)

It's not all of us when did you last get to vote on anything regarding the EU ?

When would I have needed to?

When they moved the goal post, when they decided that free movement of WORKERS wasn't enough and decided that the free movement of anyone in the EU working or not was OK allowing anyone to reside in the country that handed out the most benifits or spoke the most common language.
This is why germany brought in 800,000 refugees the majoroty didn't speak german and wanted to come to an English speaking country, now some berliners are complaining that they only hear the English language spoken in their own country.



and when they do (finally) step in to ensure something actually does
get done (because 'we' can't sort it our between us) people whine
about that as well. ;-(

Where are the EU nuclear weapons ?

Under the sea / hidden?

Well we are leaving the French have a few nuclear warheads but the EU doesn't pay the UK anything, and apparently we can't use them without the USAs content anyway.

That seems rather unlikely. We are fully capable of analysing the
electronics of the delivery systems to ensure that there is no override.
Although we send missiles to the US for maintenance, we could actually
do it ourselves. We even have (and use) the facilities for manufacturing
our own warheads.

education is a wonderful reasource try using it.

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...86/986we13.htm

The fact that, in theory, the British Prime Minister could give the order to fire Trident missiles without getting prior approval from the White House has allowed the UK to maintain the façade of being a global military power.

In practice, the only way that Britain is ever likely to use Trident is to give legitimacy to a US nuclear attack by participating in it.


The well-established links between the US Strategic Command (STRATCOM), in Omaha Nebraska and the UK's Permanent Joint Headquarters in Northwood, London would facilitate the planning of such attacks. In a crisis the very existence of the UK Trident system might make it difficult for a UK prime minister to refuse a request by the US president to participate in an attack.

The UK Trident system is highly dependent, and for some purposes completely dependent, on the larger US system. The assembling of information available in the USA, but kept secret in Britain, by John Ainslie in his 2005 report The Future of the British bomb, shows how extensive this dependency is


What would a Euro army do that NATO or the US can't, throw sharply pointed bagettes at the enermy.

It could have the advantage of being overseen at the point of potential
attack. It is always possible that the US could decide that it was not
in their interest to defend other NATO members.

and the EU could jump in with what exactly ?


You know you don't want what you've got ... but don't know what you
actually want,

Most do.

Not according to most polls, even now.

What pole has asked them.

What pole asked them do you want the UK to have it;s lowest level of home ownswership (considering people want to buy their council houses) you shoul,d know what the asnwer is.

Do you want your children to have less prospects than you do.

We have experienced our middle son not being allocated a place at the
same primary school as his brother,

why isn't there space in that primary school ?



despite it being impossible for my
wife (I am at work 2 hours earlier) to be at two primary schools at the
same time and despite us having close links to the school - wife,
baptised at, confirmed at and attended the church there, wife's parent
attended there, we got married there, all three children baptised there,
wife and her sister attended the school, eldest son at the school,
eldest and middle son attended the nursery at the school. The reason was
purely down to applications for the 26 places rising from 23 to 56 in
only three years - due to a sudden influx of East Europeans to houses in
the area that had been split into multiple flats.

So none of the East Europeans could teach, I suppose they all doctors and nurses and care workers as we have been told. Why donlt we increase school, places when the population doubles any idea ?




Given there were nearly as many
leave as remain (who then cancel out), those who are left didn't seem
to have an opinion either way.

They didn't vote for whatever reason.

Hardly 'most' buy any sane standards.

Most people know what they want other wise why have a vote in the first place or perhaps they knew their vote would be as meaningless as they usually are.

How many nurses and other govenrment workers (note how MPs arentl; considered govenrment workers) would accept a pay freeze for 7 years ?


only what you think you want (and you especially don't
know what would be best for you, you can only guess at that). ;-(

and the EU is so expert at this are they ?

The EU is *us* mate.

No the EU isn't *us* it's 28 countries did you not know that.


Clue. 'We' are in the EU.

We joind the EEC.

We joined the Common Market.

http://www.parliament.uk/about/livin...-european-act/

The Conservative Prime Minister, Edward Heath, took the UK into the EEC in January 1973 after President de Gaulle of France had blocked UK membership twice in the 1960s. This brought EEC membership to nine. In a referendum in 1975 the UK electorate voted to stay in the EEC under renegotiated terms of entry.

Why not call the common market a fruit and veg stall if you realy want to distort the truth.



Tell me ... are you encouraged by the general progress we are making
re leaving the EU? Does it look like it's all going smoothly ...

No, but then again I wasn't expecting it to. Why would I assume that 27 countrties on one side would agree with the one country on the other side of the discussion. I can understand why the EU want us to pay as much as possible into their coffers as we ARE one of the biggest contributers to their 'state'.

How could it be expected to have progressed when the EU have dictated
(when they are no restriction in article 50) that payments and citizens;
rights must be agreed before anything else can even be discussed?

How can payment s be discussede unless you know what you are paying for.
How often to you go into a shop and pay an amount for something without know what you are getting for that payment. ?



We should treat EU citizens that have moved here well,

We should treat them they same way our citixens are treated in their countries yes, my friend in spain clouldn;lt collect dole money for quite a whiole when he moved here his spanish friend got his dole money here within a couple of weeks.

You know when you go aboard in teh EU you have to get one of those heath certs to allow you to get medical treatment, how come EU people coming here don't need one also.


but the EU want
them to retain more rights than UK citizens

No suprise their it is what we all signed up for isn't it ?


and those to be overseen by
the ECJ. Both of which are unnaceptable. Those that have been here for
the required period can apply for UK citizenship and have the same
rights as everyone else and that is sufficient.

So explain why an EU cotizen shoukd have more rights in teh UK than someone born in the UK ?



What do we want (well a tiny minority of those who bothered) want out
of the EU?

51%+ since when was that a minority, when only 48% wanted to remain ?
Is 48% the majority now ?

Yes. A mojority is a majority, but remainers seem to think that a small
margin is not enough and that nothing should therefore change.

SteveW

"mojority is a majority " (sic) didn't he get knighted .

It was the brexiteers or rather nigel farage that first said a close result should be re-voted on or words to that effect even before teh results were known.

There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36306681


you must be the first person on here to claim Nigel farage is a remoaner.

On 16/11/2017 13:43, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 22:59:45 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:
On 15/11/2017 14:22, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:13:34 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 08:31:13 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:55:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:35:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.


Funny isn't it, first the EU 'can't agree to getting anything done'
(when the EU isn't a thing, it's all of us, the clue is in the title)

It's not all of us when did you last get to vote on anything regarding the EU ?

When would I have needed to?

When they moved the goal post, when they decided that free movement of WORKERS wasn't enough and decided that the free movement of anyone in the EU working or not was OK allowing anyone to reside in the country that handed out the most benifits or spoke the most common language.
This is why germany brought in 800,000 refugees the majoroty didn't speak german and wanted to come to an English speaking country, now some berliners are complaining that they only hear the English language spoken in their own country.



and when they do (finally) step in to ensure something actually does
get done (because 'we' can't sort it our between us) people whine
about that as well. ;-(

Where are the EU nuclear weapons ?

Under the sea / hidden?

Well we are leaving the French have a few nuclear warheads but the EU doesn't pay the UK anything, and apparently we can't use them without the USAs content anyway.

That seems rather unlikely. We are fully capable of analysing the
electronics of the delivery systems to ensure that there is no override.
Although we send missiles to the US for maintenance, we could actually
do it ourselves. We even have (and use) the facilities for manufacturing
our own warheads.

education is a wonderful reasource try using it.

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...86/986we13.htm

The fact that, in theory, the British Prime Minister could give the order to fire Trident missiles without getting prior approval from the White House has allowed the UK to maintain the façade of being a global military power.

In practice, the only way that Britain is ever likely to use Trident is to give legitimacy to a US nuclear attack by participating in it.


The well-established links between the US Strategic Command (STRATCOM), in Omaha Nebraska and the UK's Permanent Joint Headquarters in Northwood, London would facilitate the planning of such attacks. In a crisis the very existence of the UK Trident system might make it difficult for a UK prime minister to refuse a request by the US president to participate in an attack.

The UK Trident system is highly dependent, and for some purposes completely dependent, on the larger US system. The assembling of information available in the USA, but kept secret in Britain, by John Ainslie in his 2005 report The Future of the British bomb, shows how extensive this dependency is


What would a Euro army do that NATO or the US can't, throw sharply pointed bagettes at the enermy.

It could have the advantage of being overseen at the point of potential
attack. It is always possible that the US could decide that it was not
in their interest to defend other NATO members.

and the EU could jump in with what exactly ?


You know you don't want what you've got ... but don't know what you
actually want,

Most do.

Not according to most polls, even now.

What pole has asked them.

What pole asked them do you want the UK to have it;s lowest level of home ownswership (considering people want to buy their council houses) you shoul,d know what the asnwer is.

Do you want your children to have less prospects than you do.

We have experienced our middle son not being allocated a place at the
same primary school as his brother,

why isn't there space in that primary school ?



despite it being impossible for my
wife (I am at work 2 hours earlier) to be at two primary schools at the
same time and despite us having close links to the school - wife,
baptised at, confirmed at and attended the church there, wife's parent
attended there, we got married there, all three children baptised there,
wife and her sister attended the school, eldest son at the school,
eldest and middle son attended the nursery at the school. The reason was
purely down to applications for the 26 places rising from 23 to 56 in
only three years - due to a sudden influx of East Europeans to houses in
the area that had been split into multiple flats.

So none of the East Europeans could teach, I suppose they all doctors and nurses and care workers as we have been told. Why donlt we increase school, places when the population doubles any idea ?




Given there were nearly as many
leave as remain (who then cancel out), those who are left didn't seem
to have an opinion either way.

They didn't vote for whatever reason.

Hardly 'most' buy any sane standards.

Most people know what they want other wise why have a vote in the first place or perhaps they knew their vote would be as meaningless as they usually are.

How many nurses and other govenrment workers (note how MPs arentl; considered govenrment workers) would accept a pay freeze for 7 years ?


only what you think you want (and you especially don't
know what would be best for you, you can only guess at that). ;-(

and the EU is so expert at this are they ?

The EU is *us* mate.

No the EU isn't *us* it's 28 countries did you not know that.


Clue. 'We' are in the EU.

We joind the EEC.

We joined the Common Market.

http://www.parliament.uk/about/livin...-european-act/

The Conservative Prime Minister, Edward Heath, took the UK into the EEC in January 1973 after President de Gaulle of France had blocked UK membership twice in the 1960s. This brought EEC membership to nine. In a referendum in 1975 the UK electorate voted to stay in the EEC under renegotiated terms of entry.

Why not call the common market a fruit and veg stall if you realy want to distort the truth.



Tell me ... are you encouraged by the general progress we are making
re leaving the EU? Does it look like it's all going smoothly ...

No, but then again I wasn't expecting it to. Why would I assume that 27 countrties on one side would agree with the one country on the other side of the discussion. I can understand why the EU want us to pay as much as possible into their coffers as we ARE one of the biggest contributers to their 'state'.

How could it be expected to have progressed when the EU have dictated
(when they are no restriction in article 50) that payments and citizens;
rights must be agreed before anything else can even be discussed?

How can payment s be discussede unless you know what you are paying for.
How often to you go into a shop and pay an amount for something without know what you are getting for that payment. ?



We should treat EU citizens that have moved here well,

We should treat them they same way our citixens are treated in their countries yes, my friend in spain clouldn;lt collect dole money for quite a whiole when he moved here his spanish friend got his dole money here within a couple of weeks.

You know when you go aboard in teh EU you have to get one of those heath certs to allow you to get medical treatment, how come EU people coming here don't need one also.


but the EU want
them to retain more rights than UK citizens

No suprise their it is what we all signed up for isn't it ?


and those to be overseen by
the ECJ. Both of which are unnaceptable. Those that have been here for
the required period can apply for UK citizenship and have the same
rights as everyone else and that is sufficient.

So explain why an EU cotizen shoukd have more rights in teh UK than someone born in the UK ?

I presume that you want me to explain what rights the EU wants them to
have over and above those of UK citizens, but your sentence is unclear.

Well, for one, the EU want EU citizens remaining in the UK to maintain a
right to bring an EU or non-EU spouse, plus children, plus other family
into the UK. UK citizens can only bring a non-EU spouse into the UK if
they are earning above a set amount, etc. Once out of the EU, UK
citizens will be (unless there is some special provision) restricted in
the same way for EU spouses.

They also want any disputes about rights to be decided by the ECJ,
whereas UK citizens will not be able to appealoutside the UK system.

What do we want (well a tiny minority of those who bothered) want out
of the EU?

51%+ since when was that a minority, when only 48% wanted to remain ?
Is 48% the majority now ?

Yes. A mojority is a majority, but remainers seem to think that a small
margin is not enough and that nothing should therefore change.

SteveW

"mojority is a majority " (sic) didn't he get knighted .

It was the brexiteers or rather nigel farage that first said a close result should be re-voted on or words to that effect even before teh results were known.

He did. When he thought they'd lost. And the remainers would have kicked
up a storm if that had happened.

There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36306681


you must be the first person on here to claim Nigel farage is a remoaner.

No. Just like remainers, he thought leave had lost and wanted another
chance. It doesn't make it right.

SteveW

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 23:40:05 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:
On 16/11/2017 13:43, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 22:59:45 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:
On 15/11/2017 14:22, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:13:34 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 08:31:13 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:55:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:35:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:36:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the need for a European army.

I don't and even if they did it'd be a waste of money because they'd never agree on getting anything done.


Funny isn't it, first the EU 'can't agree to getting anything done'
(when the EU isn't a thing, it's all of us, the clue is in the title)

It's not all of us when did you last get to vote on anything regarding the EU ?

When would I have needed to?

When they moved the goal post, when they decided that free movement of WORKERS wasn't enough and decided that the free movement of anyone in the EU working or not was OK allowing anyone to reside in the country that handed out the most benifits or spoke the most common language.
This is why germany brought in 800,000 refugees the majoroty didn't speak german and wanted to come to an English speaking country, now some berliners are complaining that they only hear the English language spoken in their own country.



and when they do (finally) step in to ensure something actually does
get done (because 'we' can't sort it our between us) people whine
about that as well. ;-(

Where are the EU nuclear weapons ?

Under the sea / hidden?

Well we are leaving the French have a few nuclear warheads but the EU doesn't pay the UK anything, and apparently we can't use them without the USAs content anyway.

That seems rather unlikely. We are fully capable of analysing the
electronics of the delivery systems to ensure that there is no override.
Although we send missiles to the US for maintenance, we could actually
do it ourselves. We even have (and use) the facilities for manufacturing
our own warheads.

education is a wonderful reasource try using it.

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...86/986we13.htm

The fact that, in theory, the British Prime Minister could give the order to fire Trident missiles without getting prior approval from the White House has allowed the UK to maintain the façade of being a global military power.

In practice, the only way that Britain is ever likely to use Trident is to give legitimacy to a US nuclear attack by participating in it.


The well-established links between the US Strategic Command (STRATCOM), in Omaha Nebraska and the UK's Permanent Joint Headquarters in Northwood, London would facilitate the planning of such attacks. In a crisis the very existence of the UK Trident system might make it difficult for a UK prime minister to refuse a request by the US president to participate in an attack.

The UK Trident system is highly dependent, and for some purposes completely dependent, on the larger US system. The assembling of information available in the USA, but kept secret in Britain, by John Ainslie in his 2005 report The Future of the British bomb, shows how extensive this dependency is


What would a Euro army do that NATO or the US can't, throw sharply pointed bagettes at the enermy.

It could have the advantage of being overseen at the point of potential
attack. It is always possible that the US could decide that it was not
in their interest to defend other NATO members.

and the EU could jump in with what exactly ?


You know you don't want what you've got ... but don't know what you
actually want,

Most do.

Not according to most polls, even now.

What pole has asked them.

What pole asked them do you want the UK to have it;s lowest level of home ownswership (considering people want to buy their council houses) you shoul,d know what the asnwer is.

Do you want your children to have less prospects than you do.

We have experienced our middle son not being allocated a place at the
same primary school as his brother,

why isn't there space in that primary school ?



despite it being impossible for my
wife (I am at work 2 hours earlier) to be at two primary schools at the
same time and despite us having close links to the school - wife,
baptised at, confirmed at and attended the church there, wife's parent
attended there, we got married there, all three children baptised there,
wife and her sister attended the school, eldest son at the school,
eldest and middle son attended the nursery at the school. The reason was
purely down to applications for the 26 places rising from 23 to 56 in
only three years - due to a sudden influx of East Europeans to houses in
the area that had been split into multiple flats.

So none of the East Europeans could teach, I suppose they all doctors and nurses and care workers as we have been told. Why donlt we increase school, places when the population doubles any idea ?




Given there were nearly as many
leave as remain (who then cancel out), those who are left didn't seem
to have an opinion either way.

They didn't vote for whatever reason.

Hardly 'most' buy any sane standards.

Most people know what they want other wise why have a vote in the first place or perhaps they knew their vote would be as meaningless as they usually are.

How many nurses and other govenrment workers (note how MPs arentl; considered govenrment workers) would accept a pay freeze for 7 years ?


only what you think you want (and you especially don't
know what would be best for you, you can only guess at that). ;-(

and the EU is so expert at this are they ?

The EU is *us* mate.

No the EU isn't *us* it's 28 countries did you not know that.


Clue. 'We' are in the EU.

We joind the EEC.

We joined the Common Market.

http://www.parliament.uk/about/livin...-european-act/

The Conservative Prime Minister, Edward Heath, took the UK into the EEC in January 1973 after President de Gaulle of France had blocked UK membership twice in the 1960s. This brought EEC membership to nine. In a referendum in 1975 the UK electorate voted to stay in the EEC under renegotiated terms of entry.

Why not call the common market a fruit and veg stall if you realy want to distort the truth.



Tell me ... are you encouraged by the general progress we are making
re leaving the EU? Does it look like it's all going smoothly ...

No, but then again I wasn't expecting it to. Why would I assume that 27 countrties on one side would agree with the one country on the other side of the discussion. I can understand why the EU want us to pay as much as possible into their coffers as we ARE one of the biggest contributers to their 'state'.

How could it be expected to have progressed when the EU have dictated
(when they are no restriction in article 50) that payments and citizens;
rights must be agreed before anything else can even be discussed?

How can payment s be discussede unless you know what you are paying for..
How often to you go into a shop and pay an amount for something without know what you are getting for that payment. ?



We should treat EU citizens that have moved here well,

We should treat them they same way our citixens are treated in their countries yes, my friend in spain clouldn;lt collect dole money for quite a whiole when he moved here his spanish friend got his dole money here within a couple of weeks.

You know when you go aboard in teh EU you have to get one of those heath certs to allow you to get medical treatment, how come EU people coming here don't need one also.


but the EU want
them to retain more rights than UK citizens

No suprise their it is what we all signed up for isn't it ?


and those to be overseen by
the ECJ. Both of which are unnaceptable. Those that have been here for
the required period can apply for UK citizenship and have the same
rights as everyone else and that is sufficient.



So explain why an EU cotizen shoukd have more rights in teh UK than someone born in the UK ?

I presume that you want me to explain what rights the EU wants them to
have over and above those of UK citizens, but your sentence is unclear.

Yes.
But how can someone come from the EU and be able to claim medical care in the UK without one of those special forms UK peolpe have to get in order to get medical care in the EU. My EU friends have never had to get a cert to get NHS treatment in the UK.
A UK friend who now lives in germany and has got married in germany to a german can't get free medical treatment in germany.

Why can a portugese person who is working in the UK be able to claim benifits for him and his wife and children that are living in portugal claim from the UK government for financial support and the UK govenment pays that money to them at the rate as if they were in the UKand paid to them in portugal .
I know this because a portugese carpenter that was makign abookcase for a friend was telling us how his family is being supported while he woprled on cash in hand jobs in the UK.


Well, for one, the EU want EU citizens remaining in the UK to maintain a
right to bring an EU or non-EU spouse, plus children, plus other family
into the UK. UK citizens can only bring a non-EU spouse into the UK if
they are earning above a set amount, etc. Once out of the EU, UK
citizens will be (unless there is some special provision) restricted in
the same way for EU spouses.


They also want any disputes about rights to be decided by the ECJ,
whereas UK citizens will not be able to appealoutside the UK system.

When you say UK citizens do you mean those born in the UK, will those expat UKers that have lived in spain for 5+ years have access to the same rights as those born in spain ie have their disputes about rights to be decided by the ECJ ?




What do we want (well a tiny minority of those who bothered) want out
of the EU?

51%+ since when was that a minority, when only 48% wanted to remain ?
Is 48% the majority now ?

Yes. A mojority is a majority, but remainers seem to think that a small
margin is not enough and that nothing should therefore change.

SteveW

"mojority is a majority " (sic) didn't he get knighted .

It was the brexiteers or rather nigel farage that first said a close result should be re-voted on or words to that effect even before teh results were known.

He did. When he thought they'd lost. And the remainers would have kicked
up a storm if that had happened.

There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36306681


you must be the first person on here to claim Nigel farage is a remoaner.

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:08:54 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Steve Walker
wrote:

On 16/11/2017 13:43, whisky-dave wrote:

So explain why an EU citizen shoukd have more rights in the UK than
someone born in the UK ?

I presume that you want me to explain what rights the EU wants them to
have over and above those of UK citizens, but your sentence is unclear.

Well, for one, the EU want EU citizens remaining in the UK to maintain a
right to bring an EU or non-EU spouse, plus children, plus other family
into the UK. UK citizens can only bring a non-EU spouse into the UK if
they are earning above a set amount, etc. Once out of the EU, UK
citizens will be (unless there is some special provision) restricted in
the same way for EU spouses.

They also want any disputes about rights to be decided by the ECJ,
whereas UK citizens will not be able to appeal outside the UK system.

Ah, just like the rights of US citizens here are decided by the US
Supreme Court, you mean?

....and the rights of some UK citizens, if the USA feels like it.




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