On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 00:13:35 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Or perhaps knowing the washing machine costs x per fill, stop using it so
much? But then you don't need a smart meter to tell you electricity isn't
free.

Wind back a decade and those devices like the OWL were in vogue and
did much the same thing. ITR that some electricity suppliers gave them
away at one time.

Ours is the first basic one and isn't used now unless a new usage
pattern needs to be measured like the missus heated seedling box I
made in her greenhouse.
I see you can still get them and they have more sophisticated models
as well now which seem to do what a smart meter does ( for electric
anyway) without the big brother connotations that having one that the
electric supplier can access brings.
http://www.theowl.com/index.php/prod...city-monitors/

I expect there are other makes.

G.Harman

I am completely against smart meters. I can see no benefit to me in having one ( fortunately the company I am with has never asked - its small and my OH sends in his readings monthly). One of the things that stops me changing is the SM deal. I would rather pay a fraction more and not be hassled.

I have E7 anyway and I believe right now they dont have SM's to deal with that.

We do have one of those old gadgets that clips on the wires and reads the electric. It is the bain of my life and has been since OH got it over ten years ago. The problem with SM's is that some people ( like my husband) will become obsessed with the electricity and trying to reduce the bill. In our case we do not need to. I can afford it and would rather be warm and have clean clothes , thanks.

These meters, together with eco warriors will lead to unrealistic targets on consumption. My OH already thinks that we have to remain within the DD set by the electricity company every month and when I cannot ( its getting colder now) he does make me sit in the dark, go to bed, or switch everything off so I am cold.

Its a hateful situation. It caused me to have pneumonia a while back I am sure.It has contributed at least in part to the cold and condensation issues in my home.

The only other thing SM's will be used for is so that electric companies can switch you off at the mains themselves to hit "Eco targets" or will hike the prices according to when they see you use most electricity. Its another government Big Brother initiative. I am sick of them

I dont have a water meter either. I would move house but I dont want a water meter.

I am sick of greenies, eco warriors and government climate targets. They dont work. They just cause obsessions.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:22:35 -0700, sweetheart wrote:

I dont have a water meter either. I would move house but I dont want a
water meter.

When we moved into this house 35 years ago the water was rates based and
we paid £350 pa. When our sons left home we had a meter installed (free)
and now pay £250 pa. Unless you are heavy users you could save money.

--
TOJ.

On 24/10/2017 21:57, Steve Walker wrote:
On 24/10/2017 09:08, Martin Brown wrote:
On 23/10/2017 16:03, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 13:33:46 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

I know they asked before installation if I had good O2 2G signal at the
meter's location,

And if you hadn't ?

They walk away into the sunset. A friend lives in a spectacularly deep
cutting with a nearly sheer cliff on one side. They gave up.

A friend's mother moved up to Scotland when she was widowed. Because her
home is so isolated, she has no phone line, no mobile reception, no
internet, no terrestrial TV and there is a big cliff blocking any
prospect of satellite TV. It is to be hoped that she enjoys the scenery,
books and the silence!

SteveW

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadb...r_power_lines?

IIRC many years ago the CEGB was thinking about putting fibre optic
cable along the earth wire which runs along the "earth wire" which runs
between the tops of the large metal transmission towers, to provide a
data network for managing the grid switchgear, etc. Don't know if
anything came of it.

newshound wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:

A friend's mother moved up to Scotland when she was widowed. Because her
home is so isolated, she has no phone line, no mobile reception, no
internet, no terrestrial TV and there is a big cliff blocking any
prospect of satellite TV. It is to be hoped that she enjoys the scenery,
books and the silence!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadb...r_power_lines?

I presume anyone who moves somewhere like that, doesn't *want* any of
the above?

IIRC many years ago the CEGB was thinking about putting fibre optic
cable along the earth wire which runs along the "earth wire" which runs
between the tops of the large metal transmission towers, to provide a
data network for managing the grid switchgear, etc. Don't know if
anything came of it.

That was how the Energis network (that Demon's local PoPs piggy-backed
on) worked, wasn't it?

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:39:10 +0100, Michael Chare
wrote:

On 24/10/2017 15:42, Harry Bloomfield wrote:


I made good use of the SM last year, when I invested a bit of money
converting our most used lighting over to LED.

You hardly need a Smart meter to tell you that LED lights are cheap to
run. We had a kitchen with lots of little lights, about 300w. Changing
to LEDS reduced the power consumption considerably.

There are people (not Harry particularly) who don't seem to relate
watts to money.

A guy I know had 6 x 500W halogen floodlights put up over the front of
his shop that were on from dusk to quite late every night. When he was
having them fitted I questioned the cost of running 3kW of lighting
(and the suitability) for so long every day and he just shrugged.

Then the electric bill came in and replaced the halogen lamps with CFL
replacements.

Another guy I know had those little halogen downlighters everywhere
and if he turned all the lights on on the ground floor at once it
would trip the MCB.

We have had two 6' flouros in the kitchen for the 40 years we have
lived here because they work well and are fairly economical to run.
Luckily my Mrs is willing / happy to go along with anything that works
well and allows us to spend our money on things that are more
important to us than how 'good' a light *looks* (rather than
functions). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
newshound wrote:
IIRC many years ago the CEGB was thinking about putting fibre optic
cable along the earth wire which runs along the "earth wire" which runs
between the tops of the large metal transmission towers, to provide a
data network for managing the grid switchgear, etc. Don't know if
anything came of it.

Is it an earth wire or merely some sort of strain support?

And yes - I remember watching the machine used to wrap the fibre optic
round it crawling along the wire. Very clever. Must be something like 20
years ago.

--
*Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:43:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article 20171024191028.0c31f1bd@Mars,
Rob Morley wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 00:13:35 +0100
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

But then you don't need a smart meter to tell you
electricity isn't free.

Indeed - my mother used to do that whenever I left a light on in an
unoccupied room.

Same here. I could perhaps understand my mother not knowing an electric
fire cost more to run than a light (although she did) and need a meter to
tell her - but in this day and age?

Quite. A (reasonably technical) mate phone me to 'check' how much
current a 250W electric towel rail would draw (to know what sort of
size wiring he would need).

He had been online to try to check but whatever online calculator he
found was asking him for the power factor and of course, that wasn't
mentioned (because it wasn't relevant in this case, with the load
being purely resistive).

I explained how you would calculate such but I don't suppose for one
second he took it in or made a note of it etc?

But as you say I guess 'most / many people' wouldn't correlate say a
'3000W kettle' with the size of it's cable, the rating of the fuse in
the plug and therefore 'how much electricity it used'.

Them: 'How expensive is my new TV to run ?'

Me: What wattage (maximum) does it say it is and how much are you
paying per kWh?

Them: Erm, dunno ... is it more or less than an electric fire ... ?

;-)

But then they are probably the same people who don't realise running
aircon, driving with the windows open, having low tyre pressures or
having a roof rack on your car would all reduce the mpg.

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 14:11:13 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
newshound wrote:
IIRC many years ago the CEGB was thinking about putting fibre optic
cable along the earth wire which runs along the "earth wire" which runs
between the tops of the large metal transmission towers, to provide a
data network for managing the grid switchgear, etc. Don't know if
anything came of it.

Is it an earth wire or merely some sort of strain support?

It is a is an earth/ ground and is positioned at the top mainly to
intercept a lighting strike before it reaches one of the circuit
conductors.

G.Harman

On 25/10/2017 12:30, The Other John wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:22:35 -0700, sweetheart wrote:

I dont have a water meter either. I would move house but I dont want a
water meter.

When we moved into this house 35 years ago the water was rates based and
we paid £350 pa. When our sons left home we had a meter installed (free)
and now pay £250 pa. Unless you are heavy users you could save money.

But then you are going to think, "How much water does this bath take?
Would I be better taking a shower? or "Should I flush the toilet if I've
just done a wee? Am I going for a wee too often?" Should I say, "If it's
yellow, let it mellow; if it's brown, flush it down"?

--
Max Demian

In article ,
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 14:11:13 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
newshound wrote:
IIRC many years ago the CEGB was thinking about putting fibre optic
cable along the earth wire which runs along the "earth wire" which runs
between the tops of the large metal transmission towers, to provide a
data network for managing the grid switchgear, etc. Don't know if
anything came of it.

Is it an earth wire or merely some sort of strain support?

It is a is an earth/ ground and is positioned at the top mainly to
intercept a lighting strike before it reaches one of the circuit
conductors.

Ah. The wealth of knowledge some have on here never ceases to surprise.
;-) Thanks.

--
*What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/10/2017 13:53, Huge wrote:
On 2017-10-25, Andy Burns wrote:
newshound wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:

A friend's mother moved up to Scotland when she was widowed. Because her
home is so isolated, she has no phone line, no mobile reception, no
internet, no terrestrial TV and there is a big cliff blocking any
prospect of satellite TV. It is to be hoped that she enjoys the scenery,
books and the silence!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadb...r_power_lines?

I presume anyone who moves somewhere like that, doesn't *want* any of
the above?

That isn't necessarily so. We didn't want, and don't have any, neighbours,
but the broadband is very useful.


Now part of Maslow's hierarchy of needs....

sweetheart wrote

I am completely against smart meters.

Yes, you are that stupid.

I can see no benefit to me in having one

Yes, you are that stupid.

The supplier doesnt have to pay someone to read it, or
you dont have to read it yourself and tell them the reading.

( fortunately the company I am with has never asked -
its small and my OH sends in his readings monthly).

And wouldnt have to with a smart meter, stupid.

One of the things that stops me changing is the SM deal.
I would rather pay a fraction more and not be hassled.

Yes, you are that stupid.

I have E7 anyway and I believe right now
they dont have SM's to deal with that.

You're wrong, as always.

We do have one of those old gadgets that clips on
the wires and reads the electric. It is the bain of my
life and has been since OH got it over ten years ago.

Yes, you are that stupid.

The problem with SM's is that some people ( like my husband)
will become obsessed with the electricity and trying to reduce
the bill. In our case we do not need to. I can afford it and
would rather be warm and have clean clothes , thanks.

Nothing to stop you having clean clothes with a smart meter.

These meters, together with eco warriors will
lead to unrealistic targets on consumption.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and thats saying something.

My OH already thinks that we have to remain within
the DD set by the electricity company every month

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that he really
is that stupid and why he got the bums rush from work.

and when I cannot ( its getting colder now) he does make me
sit in the dark, go to bed, or switch everything off so I am cold.

Get a clue and get a heated throw. Its like an electric blanket that
you use on the armchair or sofa to keep warm with **** all electricity.

Its a hateful situation.

And you are too stupid to fix it.

It caused me to have pneumonia a while back I am sure.

Yes, you are that stupid.

It has contributed at least in part to the cold
and condensation issues in my home.

And you are too stupid to fix that.

The only other thing SM's will be used for is so that
electric companies can switch you off at the mains

They can't do that.

themselves to hit "Eco targets" or will hike the prices
according to when they see you use most electricity.

Yes, you are that stupid.

Its another government Big Brother initiative. I am sick of them

Yes, you are that stupid.

I dont have a water meter either. I would
move house but I dont want a water meter.

Yes, you are that stupid.

I am sick of greenies, eco warriors and government climate
targets. They dont work. They just cause obsessions.

Only with the stupids.

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 12:38:21 AM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
sweetheart

Yes, you are that stupid.

Yes, you are that stupid.





Yes, you are that stupid.


You're wrong, as always.



Yes, you are that stupid.



Nothing to stop you having clean clothes with a smart meter.


Even sillier than you usually manage, and thats saying something..


is that stupid and why he got the bums rush from work.



Get a clue and get a heated throw. Its like an electric blanket that
you use on the armchair or sofa to keep warm with **** all electricity.

Its a hateful situation.

And you are too stupid to fix it.

It caused me to have pneumonia a while back I am sure.

Yes, you are that stupid.


And you are too stupid to fix that.

Yes, you are that stupid.

Its another government Big Brother initiative. I am sick of them

Yes, you are that stupid.


Yes, you are that stupid.

Only with the stupids.

So, I am stupid. I still dont want a smart meter.

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 12:30:48 PM UTC+1, The Other John wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:22:35 -0700, sweetheart wrote:

I dont have a water meter either. I would move house but I dont want a
water meter.

When we moved into this house 35 years ago the water was rates based and
we paid £350 pa. When our sons left home we had a meter installed (free)
and now pay £250 pa. Unless you are heavy users you could save money.

--
TOJ.

I have a septic tank and my own ground drainage. The water comapny tell me that they cannot separate a sewerage charge from the water cost, so I pay to dispose of your sh8t and still pay for my own as an add on.

Besides, my current water bill is around £140 for the year and I can use what I like for that.

On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 1:19:09 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
BBC Radio 4, You and Yours...
Only had half an ear on it, but...

No SMETS2 smart meters before July 2018, more likely 2019
before testing is complete and main roll out starts, or
companies risk having to come out again to upgrade them.

Current SMETS1 smart meters can only be fitted until July 2018.
Companies have bought and paid for loads of them - rushing to get
the old meters installed before they're worthless.

The network for SMETS1 meters is looking to be switched off in
2022. (Is that GPRS?)

Government still thinks SMETS1 meters will be upgraded to SMETS2
via firmware, but this is exceedingly unlikely. Governemt is
also still blindly telling the companies to get on with it by
the deadline, which is now completely unachievable.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

The Which magazine have recommended that people do not have Smart Meters installed. They gave reasons and I am sure they are good ones.

I will not be installing these meters ( water or electric) any time soon. I am still entitled to an opinion and to express it freely. Its a pity others cannot allow alternative views to be expressed without making non sequitur comments.

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 21:57:50 -0700, sweetheart wrote:

my current water bill is around £140 for the year and I can use what I
like for that.

Wow! That's cheap. I'm guessing you don't live in the affluent south of
England!

--
TOJ.

sweetheart wrote

So, I am stupid.

True.

I still dont want a smart meter.

Yes, you are that stupid.

sweetheart wrote

The Which magazine have recommended that
people do not have Smart Meters installed.

While ever the fools can't manage to supply
meters that will be fine for decades.

Separate matter entirely to fools like you proclaiming
that no smart meter is ever any use for anything.

In article ,
sweetheart wrote:
So, I am stupid. I still dont want a smart meter.

I wouldn't mind one just to have a remote readout somewhere more
convenient than the present two. The leccy one is easy to read - but the
gas meter in an inconvenient place in the cellar. I'd also not object to
it being able to be read remotely, so I don't have to do it at all - or
have a meter reader calling every so often.

But given I have changed suppliers twice in the past couple of years, it
would have to work with any supplier.

--
*Aim Low, Reach Your Goals, Avoid Disappointment *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"The Other John" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:22:35 -0700, sweetheart wrote:

I dont have a water meter either. I would move house but I dont want a
water meter.

When we moved into this house 35 years ago the water was rates based and
we paid £350 pa. When our sons left home we had a meter installed (free)
and now pay £250 pa. Unless you are heavy users you could save money.

But she is too stupid to do even the simplest calculations like that.

On Thursday, 26 October 2017 09:24:50 UTC+1, The Other John wrote:
On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 21:57:50 -0700, sweetheart wrote:

my current water bill is around £140 for the year and I can use what I
like for that.

Wow! That's cheap. I'm guessing you don't live in the affluent south of
England!


Mine is about £300 a year, but when did they split water rates from just the rates of a property ?

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:44:31 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

Mine is about £300 a year, but when did they split water rates from just
the rates of a property ?

I dunno, but I thought they used the same figure called 'rateable value'.
I don't know what they base water rates on now since the introduction of
council tax.

--
TOJ.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:11:48 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

the gas meter in an inconvenient place in the cellar. I'd also not
object to it being able to be read remotely

I would have thought with your technical knowledge you would have pointed
an IP camera at it!

--
TOJ.

On 26/10/2017 05:57, sweetheart wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 12:30:48 PM UTC+1, The Other John wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:22:35 -0700, sweetheart wrote:

I dont have a water meter either. I would move house but I dont want a
water meter.

When we moved into this house 35 years ago the water was rates based and
we paid £350 pa. When our sons left home we had a meter installed (free)
and now pay £250 pa. Unless you are heavy users you could save money.

--
TOJ.

I have a septic tank and my own ground drainage. The water comapny tell me that they cannot separate a sewerage charge from the water cost, so I pay to dispose of your sh8t and still pay for my own as an add on.

All the water companies can remove the sewerage charge in your
situation. It is a perectly standard thing to do.

Besides, my current water bill is around £140 for the year and I can use what I like for that.

That is amazingly low.

SteveW

In article ,
The Other John wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:11:48 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

the gas meter in an inconvenient place in the cellar. I'd also not
object to it being able to be read remotely

I would have thought with your technical knowledge you would have pointed
an IP camera at it!

Some things just ain't worth the bother. ;-)

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 26/10/2017 21:48, Steve Walker wrote:
On 26/10/2017 05:57, sweetheart wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 12:30:48 PM UTC+1, The Other John
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:22:35 -0700, sweetheart wrote:

I dont have a water meter either. I would move house but I dont want a
water meter.

When we moved into this house 35 years ago the water was rates based and
we paid £350 pa. When our sons left home we had a meter installed
(free)
and now pay £250 pa. Unless you are heavy users you could save money.

--
TOJ.

I have a septic tank and my own ground drainage. The water comapny
tell me that they cannot separate a sewerage charge from the water
cost, so I pay to dispose of your sh8t and still pay for my own as an
add on.

All the water companies can remove the sewerage charge in your
situation. It is a perectly standard thing to do.

In this area you even pay separate companies to do it - Essex & Suffolk
to deliver it, and Anglian to collect it!

Besides, my current water bill is around £140 for the year and I can
use what I like for that.

That is amazingly low.

yup, paying about £250/year just for delivery (have own drainage)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 26/10/2017 19:40, The Other John wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:44:31 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

Mine is about £300 a year, but when did they split water rates from just
the rates of a property ?

I thought it always had been - but to me "always" starts in 1977 as that
is when I got my first house.


I dunno, but I thought they used the same figure called 'rateable value'.
I don't know what they base water rates on now since the introduction of
council tax.


Most household customers who do not have a water meter receive a bill
each year that is based on the rateable value of their property.

The rateable value was a local authoritys assessment of the annual
rental value of an individual property. Rateable value assessments were
last carried out on households between 1973 and 1990.

Rateable values were last updated in 1990 so any changes to your
property since then will not be reflected in your rateable value. All
properties built since 1990 have a water meter installed


see
https://www.ofwat.gov.uk/households/...ill/unmetered/



--
Chris B (News)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
sweetheart wrote:
So, I am stupid. I still dont want a smart meter.

I wouldn't mind one just to have a remote readout somewhere more
convenient than the present two. The leccy one is easy to read - but the
gas meter in an inconvenient place in the cellar. I'd also not object to
it being able to be read remotely, so I don't have to do it at all - or
have a meter reader calling every so often.

But given I have changed suppliers twice in the past couple of years, it
would have to work with any supplier.


IME, they don't necessarily work with another supplier - and oddly do
not work even when reverting to the supplier that installed them in the
first place...

Also, one notable omission from the remote display functions is READING
THE ***** METER. Lots of silly functions about setting budgets and
consumption targets, but nothing useful other than current load and
cumulative consumption (day/month).

Reading the meter itself is a bit of a pain requiring various button
presses and waiting for the readings to cycle round.

Chris K

On 28/10/2017 17:48, ChrisK wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â* sweetheart wrote:
So, I am stupid. I still dont want a smart meter.

I wouldn't mind one just to have a remote readout somewhere more
convenient than the present two. The leccy one is easy to read - but the
gas meter in an inconvenient place in the cellar. I'd also not object to
it being able to be read remotely, so I don't have to do it at all - or
have a meter reader calling every so often.

But given I have changed suppliers twice in the past couple of years, it
would have to work with any supplier.

IME, they don't necessarily work with another supplier - and oddly do
not work even when reverting to the supplier that installed them in the
first place...

Also, one notable omission from the remote display functions is READING
THE ***** METER.Â* Lots of silly functions about setting budgets and
consumption targets, but nothing useful other than current load and
cumulative consumption (day/month).

Do they actually display the consumption in watts, or just the cost in
pence?

--
Max Demian

Max Demian wrote:
On 28/10/2017 17:48, ChrisK wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
sweetheart wrote:
So, I am stupid. I still dont want a smart meter.

I wouldn't mind one just to have a remote readout somewhere more
convenient than the present two. The leccy one is easy to read - but the
gas meter in an inconvenient place in the cellar. I'd also not object to
it being able to be read remotely, so I don't have to do it at all - or
have a meter reader calling every so often.

But given I have changed suppliers twice in the past couple of years, it
would have to work with any supplier.

IME, they don't necessarily work with another supplier - and oddly do
not work even when reverting to the supplier that installed them in
the first place...

Also, one notable omission from the remote display functions is
READING THE ***** METER. Lots of silly functions about setting
budgets and consumption targets, but nothing useful other than current
load and cumulative consumption (day/month).

Do they actually display the consumption in watts, or just the cost in
pence?


Yes, they do display the instantaneous consumption in watts for the
electricity - gas is only sampled every 20 mins or so - so cumulative
only. Cost is not available unless the suppler chooses to load the
tariff data - which they don't if they don't choose to adopt the meter.

Chris K

On 26/10/2017 05:57, sweetheart wrote:
I have a septic tank and my own ground drainage. The water comapny tell me that they cannot separate a sewerage charge from the water cost, so I pay to dispose of your sh8t and still pay for my own as an add on.

Besides, my current water bill is around £140 for the year and I can use what I like for that.

We get a discount for not discharging our gutters into the sewer.

Andy