On 1/14/2017 7:55 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , S Viemeister
wrote:
On 14/1/2017 06:21, Tim Streater wrote:
Depends how much you are changing it. Prolly OK in a domestic setting,
but having to deal with a spaghetti of hundreds of cables can be a
nightmare. Keep it tidy.
Also the article doesn't appear to mention labelling the cables. Always
label both ends of each cable so that, having pulled them, you're not
sat there wondering which one you've got hold of. The cable should have
the same label at each end.
Excellent advice.
I use a Brother labelmaker - tapes are available in a range of colours
and widths.

I learnt the hard way. :-)

As did I.

In message , Charles F
writes

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
.. .
In message , T i m
writes
On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 09:06:15 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the
telephone intake point to likely outlet needs.

As an aside, is that the best place to have the centre of your wiring?
Eg, if it's in the hall, so you want the router, possibly an Ethernet
switch and all the cables in the hall by your front door? An
alternative is you can put all your 'comms' in a cupboard somewhere
and then just run a cable or two between where the router might sit
(say a couple of places) and said comms space or get the BT line /
Cable fed into there as well.

I have done just that with / for several people and it worked out very
well.

The intake point, router and my PC will all be in the study which has
a window overlooking the farmyard. Open Reach strongly advised
keeping the intake/router cable short. (We have had the discussion on
negligible effect:-)


I think I met a slightly more sensible Openreach engineer, who said
that extending from the master socket to the router would be fine
*providing* it was done in Cat5/6 cable. So I extended the split
outputs of the master socket (phones and internet) via a double wall
socket by the BT socket, about 15M of cat 5e cable, and a patch panel,
and thence to the router, and there is no visible performance
difference to having the router right next to the master socket. It
also puts the router in the centre of the house at ceiling level, which
helps with wi-fi coverage.

There was a modest improvement here but difficult to be sure. Possibly
better locations for filters.

Are you going to use all these new cables for wired phones too? Or are
wired phones so last century!

There will be two other wired phones. I don't want a flock of visitors
trecking to the office to see if there are any messages.

--
Tim Lamb

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 14/01/17 11:51, Tim Lamb wrote:
Hmm.. Wife will use Ethernet for her static laptop but the rest of the
family expect wi-fi

Well attach wifi repeaters to the ends of the ethernet to punch through
the corrugated iron walls of yer barn...

It is the chicken wire holding up the Rockwool I'm concerned about:-)


--
Tim Lamb

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
I think I met a slightly more sensible Openreach engineer, who said that
extending from the master socket to the router would be fine *providing*
it was done in Cat5/6 cable. So I extended the split outputs of the master
socket (phones and internet) via a double wall socket by the BT socket,
about 15M of cat 5e cable, and a patch panel, and thence to the router,
and there is no visible performance difference to having the router right
next to the master socket. It also puts the router in the centre of the
house at ceiling level, which helps with wi-fi coverage.

When we upgraded to VDSL, I originally moved the router to be close to the
master socket, which was very inconvenient as a) the wifi coverage
throughout the house was less strong, and b) I had to use Homeplug to get an
Ethernet feed to my PC upstairs.

So I experimented...

- best sync speed was with the router in the test socket of the master
socket

- sync speed reduced by a couple of Mbps when I connected the house wiring
and put the router in the front plate of the master socket

- with the router upstairs on the end of a long run of BT cable to the
upstairs socket and then another long run of cheap ribbon phone extension
cable (under doorways and along the edge of carpet) from there to the router
in the next room, I lost a further few Mbps

I think the difference between best and worse was 20 Mbps down to 14 Mbps,
which I decided was tolerable if it gave me the router next to the PC and
upstairs for better wifi.

Interestingly, I've just looked at my router now and it's syncing at 20 Mbps
/ 7 Mbps - better than it used to be - so I'm dead chuffed. Actually the
biggest benefit of VDSL for me is the dramatically increased upload speed
(0.5 up to 7 Mbps) when sending emails or ftping files; the increased
download speed isn't normally very noticeable (because even the 8 Mbps of
ADSL was fast enough) for ordinary web access, though it does come in very
useful for downloading large files.

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
I think I met a slightly more sensible Openreach engineer, who said that
extending from the master socket to the router would be fine *providing*
it was done in Cat5/6 cable. So I extended the split outputs of the
master socket (phones and internet) via a double wall socket by the BT
socket, about 15M of cat 5e cable, and a patch panel, and thence to the
router, and there is no visible performance difference to having the
router right next to the master socket. It also puts the router in the
centre of the house at ceiling level, which helps with wi-fi coverage.

When we upgraded to VDSL, I originally moved the router to be close to the
master socket, which was very inconvenient as a) the wifi coverage
throughout the house was less strong, and b) I had to use Homeplug to get
an Ethernet feed to my PC upstairs.

So I experimented...

- best sync speed was with the router in the test socket of the master
socket

- sync speed reduced by a couple of Mbps when I connected the house wiring
and put the router in the front plate of the master socket

- with the router upstairs on the end of a long run of BT cable to the
upstairs socket and then another long run of cheap ribbon phone extension
cable (under doorways and along the edge of carpet) from there to the
router in the next room, I lost a further few Mbps

I think the difference between best and worse was 20 Mbps down to 14 Mbps,
which I decided was tolerable if it gave me the router next to the PC and
upstairs for better wifi.

Interestingly, I've just looked at my router now and it's syncing at 20
Mbps / 7 Mbps - better than it used to be - so I'm dead chuffed. Actually
the biggest benefit of VDSL for me is the dramatically increased upload
speed (0.5 up to 7 Mbps) when sending emails or ftping files; the
increased download speed isn't normally very noticeable (because even the
8 Mbps of ADSL was fast enough) for ordinary web access, though it does
come in very useful for downloading large files.

I'm expecting to get a VDSL2 service of around 95/35 because the
node and pillar are so close. With ours, you can see some spurs in
the house wiring resonate at some frequencys and get a dramatic
drop in the speeds, like halved. The spurs are the extensions around
the house and the general approach is to remove them and have the
modem/router with a direct connection to the external phone line.

En el artículo , Tim Lamb
escribió:

OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the
telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near
ignorance, what terminations are used?

Usually RJ45 sockets at both ends. You concentrate all the wiring at a
location where you can put a network switch. The sockets are terminated
with Krone insulation displacement connectors, for which you use a BT-
type punch down tool, e.g. ebay 221541032296.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 12:37:53 -0000, "Charles F"
wrote:

snip

The intake point, router and my PC will all be in the study which has a
window overlooking the farmyard. Open Reach strongly advised keeping the
intake/router cable short. (We have had the discussion on negligible
effect:-)


I think I met a slightly more sensible Openreach engineer, who said that
extending from the master socket to the router would be fine *providing*
it
was done in Cat5/6 cable.

Was the right answer. ;-)

Well, I'm not sure if the 'std' twisted pair telephone cable is Cat5
or whatever but as long as you extend it the last few meters using
something suitable (eg, not alarm wire) then it shouldn't have much
impact over the several km it has already taken to get to you. ;-)

It isnt normally several km with VDSL2 tho.

In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes
En el artículo , Tim Lamb
escribió:

OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the
telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near
ignorance, what terminations are used?

Usually RJ45 sockets at both ends. You concentrate all the wiring at a
location where you can put a network switch. The sockets are terminated
with Krone insulation displacement connectors, for which you use a BT-
type punch down tool, e.g. ebay 221541032296.

OK. An Open Reach engineer left one here during a line fault visit.
Foolishly, I gave it to back to the next engineer.


--
Tim Lamb

On 14/01/2017 20:47, NY wrote:
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
I think I met a slightly more sensible Openreach engineer, who said
that extending from the master socket to the router would be fine
*providing* it was done in Cat5/6 cable. So I extended the split
outputs of the master socket (phones and internet) via a double wall
socket by the BT socket, about 15M of cat 5e cable, and a patch
panel, and thence to the router, and there is no visible performance
difference to having the router right next to the master socket. It
also puts the router in the centre of the house at ceiling level,
which helps with wi-fi coverage.

When we upgraded to VDSL, I originally moved the router to be close to
the master socket, which was very inconvenient as a) the wifi coverage
throughout the house was less strong, and b) I had to use Homeplug to
get an Ethernet feed to my PC upstairs.

So I experimented...

- best sync speed was with the router in the test socket of the master
socket

- sync speed reduced by a couple of Mbps when I connected the house
wiring and put the router in the front plate of the master socket

There is something wrong with the connection then.
It should make no difference if you have a proper face plate and the
connections are correct.
On mine there is a filtered side and an unfiltered side. The house
wiring goes in the filtered side and the VDSL plugs in the unfiltered
side. You only put the house wiring in the unfiltered side if you want
the VDSL on one of the extension sockets. You want to avoid that if
possible.

I find it better to extend the unfiltered port on the faceplate to the
router using cat5 cable rather than using the phone wiring.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
There is something wrong with the connection then.

Yes I was surprised that BT wired it that way, with all the house wiring
unfiltered. When we bought the house it still had an old GPO rectangular
lozenge junction box (the sort with a big screw in the centre) and the two
extensions (to a BT socket downstairs and to one upstairs) were in parallel.
ADSL ran over this (via the upstairs socket and a length of DIY extension
cable to the router) for several years and then we started getting
horrendous problems with the router losing sync periodically and failing to
see the carrier for several hours before resuming at full sync speed. These
failures seemed to correlate with heavy rainfalls, which suggested water in
a joint somewhere. BT attended and couldn't reproduce the fault, but rewired
the lozenge box as a modern BT master socket with the extensions (presumably
still in parallel) via a removeable faceplate, such that for the first time
we could disconnect the house wiring for testing.

I'm glad that they didn't connect the extension wiring on the filtered side,
otherwise we'd have been forced to have the router close to the master
socket - or find a way of routing Cat 5 to the upstairs bedroom where we
wanted the router to be. And that would have meant drilling out through the
house wall, running the cable up the wall and in through the brickwork again
in the bedroom, or else running the cable up the living room wall (maybe in
the corner of the room) and then through the ceiling of the living room and
the floor of an adjacent bedroom, then along the skirting board and through
the internal wall to the room where we wanted it.

Given that there was existing wiring to the landing, and my existing DIY
wiring from there to the bedroom, I thought I'd try it. I can live with a
slight reduction in sync speed compared with that at the master socket on
the unfiltered side, given that the router can be located where I really
want it.

Apparently when you upgraded to VDSL, BT Openreach *used* to include
installing a "data socket" (an unfiltered extension) within x metres of the
master socket, for needs such as ours, as long as the ISP requested it. Ours
did, but then they changed their policy a few weeks earlier when BT
Openreach started to allow customer-installed routers rather than BT modem
and Ethernet input to router. So we just missed out :-( Even the BT
Openreach engineer didn't know about the change and was all set to do the
work until he checked with head office.

It should make no difference if you have a proper face plate and the
connections are correct.
On mine there is a filtered side and an unfiltered side. The house wiring
goes in the filtered side and the VDSL plugs in the unfiltered side. You
only put the house wiring in the unfiltered side if you want the VDSL on
one of the extension sockets. You want to avoid that if possible.

I find it better to extend the unfiltered port on the faceplate to the
router using cat5 cable rather than using the phone wiring.

See above about the hassle of installing Cat 5 from the master socket to the
bedroom where we wanted the router. :-(