First fix wiring started.

Now the plaster board and insulation.

The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space
and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new
bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no
longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing.

Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads.

Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing
and inspection issues?


--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
First fix wiring started.

Now the plaster board and insulation.

The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space
and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new
bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no
longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing.

Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads.

Sounds like he knows something really really new or he's a cock?


Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing
and inspection issues?


Only if pressurised.
Vented (feed & expansion tank) = no requirements AFAIK.

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In message , jim
writes
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
First fix wiring started.

Now the plaster board and insulation.

The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space
and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new
bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no
longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing.

Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads.

Sounds like he knows something really really new or he's a cock?

The inference was that it was thought important when modern timber frame
housing started but less so now. Permeable felt has come along for one
thing. Tacking up polythene is not difficult for room spaces but small
warm loft areas much harder.


Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing
and inspection issues?


Only if pressurised.
Vented (feed & expansion tank) = no requirements AFAIK.

I was hoping for comments on performance.


--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , jim
writes
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
First fix wiring started.

Now the plaster board and insulation.

The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space
and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new
bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no
longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing.

Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads.

Sounds like he knows something really really new or he's a cock?

The inference was that it was thought important when modern timber frame
housing started but less so now. Permeable felt has come along for one
thing. Tacking up polythene is not difficult for room spaces but small
warm loft areas much harder.


Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing
and inspection issues?


Only if pressurised.
Vented (feed & expansion tank) = no requirements AFAIK.

I was hoping for comments on performance.




Why mention
"inspection issues"
then?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In message , jim
writes
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , jim
writes
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
First fix wiring started.

Now the plaster board and insulation.

The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space
and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new
bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no
longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing.

Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads.

Sounds like he knows something really really new or he's a cock?

The inference was that it was thought important when modern timber frame
housing started but less so now. Permeable felt has come along for one
thing. Tacking up polythene is not difficult for room spaces but small
warm loft areas much harder.


Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing
and inspection issues?


Only if pressurised.
Vented (feed & expansion tank) = no requirements AFAIK.

I was hoping for comments on performance.




Why mention
"inspection issues"
then?
:-) Sorry. More of a reason for my interest rather than quest for
further knowledge. Owners speak grandly about having a *megalflo*
without mentioning any of the downsides.


--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , jim
writes
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , jim
writes
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
First fix wiring started.

Now the plaster board and insulation.

The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space
and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new
bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no
longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing.

Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads.

Sounds like he knows something really really new or he's a cock?

The inference was that it was thought important when modern timber frame
housing started but less so now. Permeable felt has come along for one
thing. Tacking up polythene is not difficult for room spaces but small
warm loft areas much harder.


Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing
and inspection issues?


Only if pressurised.
Vented (feed & expansion tank) = no requirements AFAIK.

I was hoping for comments on performance.




Why mention
"inspection issues"
then?
:-) Sorry. More of a reason for my interest rather than quest for
further knowledge. Owners speak grandly about having a *megalflo*
without mentioning any of the downsides.



That's OK then, for a moment there I thought you might be being "a
bit sniffy"... ;-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:51:15 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing.

Not so go for WiFi though (especially on internal walls / ceilings).

I was asked to help a mate who had built a study into the garage on
the front of their house and he used foil backed PB. BT put the
wireless router into the new study and he asked me to explain why the
kids couldn't get a reliable signal in the lounge some 2 meters away.

I suggested he got some Powerline adaptors to export the LAN outside
his new Faraday cage and they seemed to do the job ok. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In message , T i m
writes
On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:51:15 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing.

Not so go for WiFi though (especially on internal walls / ceilings).

I was asked to help a mate who had built a study into the garage on
the front of their house and he used foil backed PB. BT put the
wireless router into the new study and he asked me to explain why the
kids couldn't get a reliable signal in the lounge some 2 meters away.

Huh! Building Control want chicken wire (fire reasons, lets me get away
with 12.5mm ceiling plasterboard) supporting the inter joist insulation.

I suggested he got some Powerline adaptors to export the LAN outside
his new Faraday cage and they seemed to do the job ok. ;-)

OK Here. No radio hams to annoy:-)

I will have similar issues: the router at one end and the lounge
upstairs at the other. I am hoping someone will give a words of few
syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-)

--
Tim Lamb

On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 23:22:12 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

I will have similar issues: the router at one end and the lounge
upstairs at the other. I am hoping someone will give a words of few
syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-)

If you still have the opportunity to flood wire R.C. with whatever the
best spec Ethernet cable is (Cat5/6?) then you could put Access Points
at whatever locations are appropriate.

Or Wireless Powerline adaptors if you don't want to run the cable and
want something more 'portable'.

Summat like: TP-LINK TL-WPA4220TKIT AV600 (1 wired master, two
wireless (+wired) slaves). With a wireless router that would give you
3 Wireless access points and if you put them all on the same SSID, it
would become one big wireless network (I believe the TP-Link units
allow you to set up the WiFi units using WPS (press button).

Cheers, T i m

In message , T i m
writes
On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 23:22:12 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

I will have similar issues: the router at one end and the lounge
upstairs at the other. I am hoping someone will give a words of few
syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-)

If you still have the opportunity to flood wire R.C. with whatever the
best spec Ethernet cable is (Cat5/6?) then you could put Access Points
at whatever locations are appropriate.

Or Wireless Powerline adaptors if you don't want to run the cable and
want something more 'portable'.

Summat like: TP-LINK TL-WPA4220TKIT AV600 (1 wired master, two
wireless (+wired) slaves). With a wireless router that would give you
3 Wireless access points and if you put them all on the same SSID, it
would become one big wireless network (I believe the TP-Link units
allow you to set up the WiFi units using WPS (press button).

Not exactly words of one syllable Tim:-)

It would be nice to avoid multiple access codes for visitors needing
connection but then moving elsewhere in the house.
--
Tim Lamb

On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 10:23:27 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , T i m
writes
On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 23:22:12 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

I will have similar issues: the router at one end and the lounge
upstairs at the other. I am hoping someone will give a words of few
syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-)

If you still have the opportunity to flood wire R.C. with whatever the
best spec Ethernet cable is (Cat5/6?) then you could put Access Points
at whatever locations are appropriate.

Or Wireless Powerline adaptors if you don't want to run the cable and
want something more 'portable'.

Summat like: TP-LINK TL-WPA4220TKIT AV600 (1 wired master, two
wireless (+wired) slaves). With a wireless router that would give you
3 Wireless access points and if you put them all on the same SSID, it
would become one big wireless network (I believe the TP-Link units
allow you to set up the WiFi units using WPS (press button).

Not exactly words of one syllable Tim:-)

;-)

It would be nice to avoid multiple access codes for visitors needing
connection but then moving elsewhere in the house.

That's the good things about setting all the access points with the
same SSID (Wireless network name) and password (that applies if you
use Ethernet wired Access Points or Powerline ones).

However, I don't think there is normally the same level of
intelligence as with say Cellular Telephones where the link will 'hop'
to a stronger signal if it senses one available. So, if say you made
the first wireless connection to the Router and then walked to another
room with another access point on the exact same network, I don't
think it would use that (stronger signal) till the connection to the
first one broke.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Windows gives you the ability to prioritise the order of the
network connections (so you set the one you are most likely to be
nearest at the top of the list) but not sure you can do that with
other OS's (FWIW etc).

En el artículo , Tim Lamb
escribió:

I am hoping someone will give a words of few
syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-)

Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down,
floorboards up, etc.

Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need
an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not
use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and
it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later.

Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be
needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.)

Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or
CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium).

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes
En el artículo , Tim Lamb
escribió:

I am hoping someone will give a words of few
syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-)

Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down,
floorboards up, etc.

Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need
an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not
use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and
it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later.

Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be
needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.)

Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or
CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium).

OK Mike. Points taken.


--
Tim Lamb

In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes
En el artículo , Tim Lamb
escribió:

I am hoping someone will give a words of few
syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-)

Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down,
floorboards up, etc.

Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need
an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not
use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and
it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later.

Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be
needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.)

Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or
CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium).

OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the
telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near
ignorance, what terminations are used?


--
Tim Lamb

On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 09:06:15 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the
telephone intake point to likely outlet needs.

As an aside, is that the best place to have the centre of your wiring?
Eg, if it's in the hall, so you want the router, possibly an Ethernet
switch and all the cables in the hall by your front door? An
alternative is you can put all your 'comms' in a cupboard somewhere
and then just run a cable or two between where the router might sit
(say a couple of places) and said comms space or get the BT line /
Cable fed into there as well.

I have done just that with / for several people and it worked out very
well.

From a point of near
ignorance, what terminations are used?

Although many people crimp plugs directly to the ends of the cable,
said cable should be solid copper (not stranded) and so is *supposed*
to be punched-down into a box ('Krone') or patch panel, and from there
you would take flexible cable to your router / switch / PC etc.

You can get SOHO RJ45 patch panels (make sure they are for Cat6) and
surface mount or flush, single or double RJ45 wall boxes

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/twin-cat6-...it-white-n80jh

and although you can get disposable punch down tools, proper ones are
pretty cheap.

https://adeptnetworks.co.uk/krone-type-punch-down-tool

If you insist on putting crimp-on RJ45 connectors on the end of solid
cables I believe you can get some plugs that are suited to that (but I
prefer to do it properly). ;-)

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-cat...-10-pack-n20ch

http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Solid-vs-S...2065324/g.html

You will also need a crimp tool of course.

Plus, it's quite easy to arrange and connect the wires correctly in
the punch-down connectors and easier to buy patch cables for the ends
from the likes of eBay than making them!

http://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/2987-cat6-data-outlets

https://adeptnetworks.co.uk/10-soho-12-port-cat-6-patch-panel


Cheers, T i m

p.s. Links offered as examples of the gear used, not as a suggestion
as to where to get them etc.

On 14/01/17 09:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes
En el artÃ*culo , Tim Lamb
escribió:

I am hoping someone will give a words of few
syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-)

Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down,
floorboards up, etc.

Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need
an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not
use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and
it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later.

Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be
needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.)

Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or
CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium).

OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the
telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near
ignorance, what terminations are used?

You terminate into standard back boxes with (twin) RJ45 plates on them
that you punch down the CAT 5 onto with a krone type tool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyYBEed0nEM


At the hub end, you probably need a patch panel which is a LOT of RJ45s
on a single (19" rack) mount panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgvmM6R8rQc

A gigabit switch and some ethernet patch cables of pretty colours
completes the job. Wire the router up to the switch, and the switch to
the patch panel and Ethernet is available wherever there is a socket.






--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On 14/01/2017 09:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes
En el artículo , Tim Lamb
escribió:

I am hoping someone will give a words of few
syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-)

Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down,
floorboards up, etc.

Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need
an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not
use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and
it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later.

Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be
needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.)

Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or
CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium).

OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the
telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near
ignorance, what terminations are used?


Have a look at
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Structured_wiring_system which has
lots of good advice from John Rumm *and* pretty pictures.

But don't worry if your wiring isn't as tidy as John shows in the rear
of the patch panel: IME it still works if it looks like a des. res. for
the mice

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

En el artículo , Tim Lamb
escribió:

OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the
telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near
ignorance, what terminations are used?

Usually RJ45 sockets at both ends. You concentrate all the wiring at a
location where you can put a network switch. The sockets are terminated
with Krone insulation displacement connectors, for which you use a BT-
type punch down tool, e.g. ebay 221541032296.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:

The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space
and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new
bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no
longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing.

Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads.

My Victorian house had all the ceiling replaced during WW2 after bomb
damage. With plain plasterboard. Seems to have survived those 70 odd years.

May be more necessary with modern crap timber, though.

--
*If God dropped acid, would he see people?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:

The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space
and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new
bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no
longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing.

Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads.

My Victorian house had all the ceiling replaced during WW2 after bomb
damage. With plain plasterboard. Seems to have survived those 70 odd years.

OK. Probably over ventilated loft though. We had an Edwardian (1909?)
gabled house with roll tiles and no underfelt. Dry blowing snow used to
find a way in to the loft. We once had 2" on top of the insulation!

May be more necessary with modern crap timber, though.

I was a bit surprised to find modern structural timber is not treated
with preservative!


--
Tim Lamb

On 13/01/17 10:11, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:

The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space
and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new
bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no
longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing.

Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads.

My Victorian house had all the ceiling replaced during WW2 after bomb
damage. With plain plasterboard. Seems to have survived those 70 odd
years.

OK. Probably over ventilated loft though. We had an Edwardian (1909?)
gabled house with roll tiles and no underfelt. Dry blowing snow used to
find a way in to the loft. We once had 2" on top of the insulation!

May be more necessary with modern crap timber, though.

I was a bit surprised to find modern structural timber is not treated
with preservative!#

Actually, it all is now





--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 13/01/17 10:11, Tim Lamb wrote:
I was a bit surprised to find modern structural timber is not treated
with preservative!#

Actually, it all is now

Er. not necessarily. I have just had some roof trusses fitted. Designed
and supplied by Pasquill of Leicester. Either they or the builder
decided timber preservative treatment was not required.

--
Tim Lamb

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
news
First fix wiring started.



Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing
and inspection issues?

--
Tim Lamb

Yes to thermal store - home brew (s/steel hot cylinder, normal central
heating pump, plate heat exchanger, and
flow switch with homebrew electronics) about 8 years ago. No inspection
issues, as the cylinder is non pressurised with a small header tank. There
is inhibiter in the cylinder - still original, and looks OK so far. No
complications re DHW plumbing - almost all in 15mm, as mains pressure is
(via reduction valve) about 3.5bar.

I did take the precaution of having valves and capped pipe stubs on the DHW
side of the heat exchanger, which lets me isolate and pump (via old central
heating pump) descaler through the plates every few years to stop it liming
up - might be worth a thought, as the heat exchanger is likely to be the
most difficult item to source or replace.

Otherwise it just works.....

Charles F


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

In message , Charles F
writes

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
news
First fix wiring started.



Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow.
Plumbing and inspection issues?

-- Tim Lamb

Yes to thermal store - home brew (s/steel hot cylinder, normal central
heating pump, plate heat exchanger, and
flow switch with homebrew electronics) about 8 years ago. No inspection
issues, as the cylinder is non pressurised with a small header tank.
There is inhibiter in the cylinder - still original, and looks OK so
far. No complications re DHW plumbing - almost all in 15mm, as mains
pressure is (via reduction valve) about 3.5bar.

I did take the precaution of having valves and capped pipe stubs on the
DHW side of the heat exchanger, which lets me isolate and pump (via old
central heating pump) descaler through the plates every few years to
stop it liming up - might be worth a thought, as the heat exchanger is
likely to be the most difficult item to source or replace.

Otherwise it just works.....

All hot water will be softened here (East of the Chiltern Hills!) but
good to know a satisfied user. Roughly what is the cylinder volume and
usage? Daughters seem to use an inordinate amount of hot water when
showering!
--
Tim Lamb

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , Charles F
writes

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
news
First fix wiring started.



Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing
and inspection issues?

-- Tim Lamb

Yes to thermal store - home brew (s/steel hot cylinder, normal central
heating pump, plate heat exchanger, and
flow switch with homebrew electronics) about 8 years ago. No inspection
issues, as the cylinder is non pressurised with a small header tank. There
is inhibiter in the cylinder - still original, and looks OK so far. No
complications re DHW plumbing - almost all in 15mm, as mains pressure is
(via reduction valve) about 3.5bar.

I did take the precaution of having valves and capped pipe stubs on the
DHW side of the heat exchanger, which lets me isolate and pump (via old
central heating pump) descaler through the plates every few years to stop
it liming up - might be worth a thought, as the heat exchanger is likely
to be the most difficult item to source or replace.

Otherwise it just works.....

All hot water will be softened here (East of the Chiltern Hills!) but good
to know a satisfied user. Roughly what is the cylinder volume and usage?
Daughters seem to use an inordinate amount of hot water when showering!
--
Tim Lamb

Cylinder is 1050 high and 450 diameter, 140 litres, the biggest I could get
into the existing cupboard This does for the two of us, so that we can have
two decent showers in quick succession, or even simultaneously if we don't
push the flow rate, but you would want a bigger store for multiple females
with a tendency for long showers.

We run the store at 55 deg C, which gives DHW at about the max that is
sensible for safety. This is the simple way, but you could get greater
stored heat capacity in the same size cylinder by running the cylinder
hotter and using a thermostatic mixing valve on the heat exchanger output.

The system behaves rather like a combi boiler, but with greater heat
capacity, and like a combi it starts to show it's limits in winter when the
incoming water is at its coldest. Thus in winter showers are still fine, but
bath filling (not too often used) is slower than a conventional hot tank,
but quite a lot faster than a combi.

One aspect that I'm going to deal with soon is that normal mechanical tank
stats (to trigger the boiler) have a hysteresis of about 10 deg C, which can
mean that if one person has a rather long shower and drops the cylinder by
9.5 degs, the cylinder doesn't start to reheat until the next shower is
started, which can mean that the second one can be less hot than wanted. I'm
looking at the proliferation of Chinese thermostatic PCBs, which have a
hysteresis of more like 3 deg, to improve the situation.

One other point - don't do as I did and assume that the usual magnet + reed
relay flow switches can control a central heating pump directly - the result
is welded contacts on the reed relay, which should have been the obvious
result.... Now the flow switch controls a relay with decent contacts via a
transistor, and has been reliable for some years.

Charles F


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

In message , Charles F
writes

All hot water will be softened here (East of the Chiltern Hills!) but
good to know a satisfied user. Roughly what is the cylinder volume
and usage? Daughters seem to use an inordinate amount of hot water
when showering!
-- Tim Lamb

Cylinder is 1050 high and 450 diameter, 140 litres, the biggest I could
get into the existing cupboard This does for the two of us, so that we
can have two decent showers in quick succession, or even simultaneously
if we don't push the flow rate, but you would want a bigger store for
multiple females with a tendency for long showers.

OK I am a bit pushed on diameter but weight and height could go double.

We run the store at 55 deg C, which gives DHW at about the max that is
sensible for safety. This is the simple way, but you could get greater
stored heat capacity in the same size cylinder by running the cylinder
hotter and using a thermostatic mixing valve on the heat exchanger output.

55 deg. C seems very low. I suppose you are not concerned by disease
with no direct contact but it must seriously reduce the total useable
hot water. I will use bar mixers for showers and rely on users blending
cold in for baths etc.

The system behaves rather like a combi boiler, but with greater heat
capacity, and like a combi it starts to show it's limits in winter when
the incoming water is at its coldest. Thus in winter showers are still
fine, but bath filling (not too often used) is slower than a
conventional hot tank, but quite a lot faster than a combi.

One aspect that I'm going to deal with soon is that normal mechanical
tank stats (to trigger the boiler) have a hysteresis of about 10 deg C,
which can mean that if one person has a rather long shower and drops
the cylinder by 9.5 degs, the cylinder doesn't start to reheat until
the next shower is started, which can mean that the second one can be
less hot than wanted. I'm looking at the proliferation of Chinese
thermostatic PCBs, which have a hysteresis of more like 3 deg, to
improve the situation.

OK

One other point - don't do as I did and assume that the usual magnet +
reed relay flow switches can control a central heating pump directly -
the result is welded contacts on the reed relay, which should have been
the obvious result.... Now the flow switch controls a relay with decent
contacts via a transistor, and has been reliable for some years.
:-)

Thanks.


--
Tim Lamb

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , Charles F
writes

All hot water will be softened here (East of the Chiltern Hills!) but
good to know a satisfied user. Roughly what is the cylinder volume and
usage? Daughters seem to use an inordinate amount of hot water when
showering!
-- Tim Lamb

Cylinder is 1050 high and 450 diameter, 140 litres, the biggest I could
get into the existing cupboard This does for the two of us, so that we
can have two decent showers in quick succession, or even simultaneously if
we don't push the flow rate, but you would want a bigger store for
multiple females with a tendency for long showers.

OK I am a bit pushed on diameter but weight and height could go double.

We run the store at 55 deg C, which gives DHW at about the max that is
sensible for safety. This is the simple way, but you could get greater
stored heat capacity in the same size cylinder by running the cylinder
hotter and using a thermostatic mixing valve on the heat exchanger output.

55 deg. C seems very low. I suppose you are not concerned by disease with
no direct contact but it must seriously reduce the total useable hot
water. I will use bar mixers for showers and rely on users blending cold
in for baths etc.

55 deg at the store gives a hot water temperature at the taps that if
unmixed will make you pull your hand out fairly quickly, but doesn't
immediately
burn skin. 60 degrees at the store is very uncomfortable at the taps. Most
thermostatic showers have an initial limit of 38 degrees.... With 1
grandchild here and another imminent I'm cautious about that, but
with older children/teenagers you could go higher, and that would certainly
store more heat. Most of the commercial heat banks do run the store at
higher
temps, and then use a thermostatic mixing valve to reduce the DHW to
something safer.

As far as disease (legionnaires I presume) the store has inhibitor in it, is
quite separate from the DHW, and there is no storage of DHW - so I don't
think there is a problem - we are still here at any rate!

Charles F


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus