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First fix wiring started.
Now the plaster board and insulation. The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing. Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads. Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing and inspection issues? -- Tim Lamb |
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On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:51:15 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote: snip He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing. Not so go for WiFi though (especially on internal walls / ceilings). I was asked to help a mate who had built a study into the garage on the front of their house and he used foil backed PB. BT put the wireless router into the new study and he asked me to explain why the kids couldn't get a reliable signal in the lounge some 2 meters away. I suggested he got some Powerline adaptors to export the LAN outside his new Faraday cage and they seemed to do the job ok. ;-) Cheers, T i m |
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Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
First fix wiring started. Now the plaster board and insulation. The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing. Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads. Sounds like he knows something really really new or he's a cock? Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing and inspection issues? Only if pressurised. Vented (feed & expansion tank) = no requirements AFAIK. -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
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In message , T i m
writes On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:51:15 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote: snip He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing. Not so go for WiFi though (especially on internal walls / ceilings). I was asked to help a mate who had built a study into the garage on the front of their house and he used foil backed PB. BT put the wireless router into the new study and he asked me to explain why the kids couldn't get a reliable signal in the lounge some 2 meters away. Huh! Building Control want chicken wire (fire reasons, lets me get away with 12.5mm ceiling plasterboard) supporting the inter joist insulation. I suggested he got some Powerline adaptors to export the LAN outside his new Faraday cage and they seemed to do the job ok. ;-) OK Here. No radio hams to annoy:-) I will have similar issues: the router at one end and the lounge upstairs at the other. I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) -- Tim Lamb |
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In message , jim
writes Tim Lamb Wrote in message: First fix wiring started. Now the plaster board and insulation. The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing. Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads. Sounds like he knows something really really new or he's a cock? The inference was that it was thought important when modern timber frame housing started but less so now. Permeable felt has come along for one thing. Tacking up polythene is not difficult for room spaces but small warm loft areas much harder. Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing and inspection issues? Only if pressurised. Vented (feed & expansion tank) = no requirements AFAIK. I was hoping for comments on performance. -- Tim Lamb |
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On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 23:22:12 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote: snip I will have similar issues: the router at one end and the lounge upstairs at the other. I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) If you still have the opportunity to flood wire R.C. with whatever the best spec Ethernet cable is (Cat5/6?) then you could put Access Points at whatever locations are appropriate. Or Wireless Powerline adaptors if you don't want to run the cable and want something more 'portable'. Summat like: TP-LINK TL-WPA4220TKIT AV600 (1 wired master, two wireless (+wired) slaves). With a wireless router that would give you 3 Wireless access points and if you put them all on the same SSID, it would become one big wireless network (I believe the TP-Link units allow you to set up the WiFi units using WPS (press button). Cheers, T i m |
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In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote: The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing. Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads. My Victorian house had all the ceiling replaced during WW2 after bomb damage. With plain plasterboard. Seems to have survived those 70 odd years. May be more necessary with modern crap timber, though. -- *If God dropped acid, would he see people? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Tim Lamb" wrote in message ... First fix wiring started. Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing and inspection issues? -- Tim Lamb Yes to thermal store - home brew (s/steel hot cylinder, normal central heating pump, plate heat exchanger, and flow switch with homebrew electronics) about 8 years ago. No inspection issues, as the cylinder is non pressurised with a small header tank. There is inhibiter in the cylinder - still original, and looks OK so far. No complications re DHW plumbing - almost all in 15mm, as mains pressure is (via reduction valve) about 3.5bar. I did take the precaution of having valves and capped pipe stubs on the DHW side of the heat exchanger, which lets me isolate and pump (via old central heating pump) descaler through the plates every few years to stop it liming up - might be worth a thought, as the heat exchanger is likely to be the most difficult item to source or replace. Otherwise it just works..... Charles F --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
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Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , jim writes Tim Lamb Wrote in message: First fix wiring started. Now the plaster board and insulation. The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing. Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads. Sounds like he knows something really really new or he's a cock? The inference was that it was thought important when modern timber frame housing started but less so now. Permeable felt has come along for one thing. Tacking up polythene is not difficult for room spaces but small warm loft areas much harder. Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing and inspection issues? Only if pressurised. Vented (feed & expansion tank) = no requirements AFAIK. I was hoping for comments on performance. Why mention "inspection issues" then? -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
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En el artículo , Tim Lamb
escribió: I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down, floorboards up, etc. Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later. Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.) Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium). -- (\_/) (='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10 (")_(") |
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In message , jim
writes Tim Lamb Wrote in message: In message , jim writes Tim Lamb Wrote in message: First fix wiring started. Now the plaster board and insulation. The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing. Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads. Sounds like he knows something really really new or he's a cock? The inference was that it was thought important when modern timber frame housing started but less so now. Permeable felt has come along for one thing. Tacking up polythene is not difficult for room spaces but small warm loft areas much harder. Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing and inspection issues? Only if pressurised. Vented (feed & expansion tank) = no requirements AFAIK. I was hoping for comments on performance. Why mention "inspection issues" then? :-) Sorry. More of a reason for my interest rather than quest for further knowledge. Owners speak grandly about having a *megalflo* without mentioning any of the downsides. -- Tim Lamb |
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In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes In article , Tim Lamb wrote: The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing. Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads. My Victorian house had all the ceiling replaced during WW2 after bomb damage. With plain plasterboard. Seems to have survived those 70 odd years. OK. Probably over ventilated loft though. We had an Edwardian (1909?) gabled house with roll tiles and no underfelt. Dry blowing snow used to find a way in to the loft. We once had 2" on top of the insulation! May be more necessary with modern crap timber, though. I was a bit surprised to find modern structural timber is not treated with preservative! -- Tim Lamb |
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In message , Charles F
writes "Tim Lamb" wrote in message .. . First fix wiring started. Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing and inspection issues? -- Tim Lamb Yes to thermal store - home brew (s/steel hot cylinder, normal central heating pump, plate heat exchanger, and flow switch with homebrew electronics) about 8 years ago. No inspection issues, as the cylinder is non pressurised with a small header tank. There is inhibiter in the cylinder - still original, and looks OK so far. No complications re DHW plumbing - almost all in 15mm, as mains pressure is (via reduction valve) about 3.5bar. I did take the precaution of having valves and capped pipe stubs on the DHW side of the heat exchanger, which lets me isolate and pump (via old central heating pump) descaler through the plates every few years to stop it liming up - might be worth a thought, as the heat exchanger is likely to be the most difficult item to source or replace. Otherwise it just works..... All hot water will be softened here (East of the Chiltern Hills!) but good to know a satisfied user. Roughly what is the cylinder volume and usage? Daughters seem to use an inordinate amount of hot water when showering! -- Tim Lamb |
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In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes En el artículo , Tim Lamb escribió: I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down, floorboards up, etc. Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later. Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.) Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium). OK Mike. Points taken. -- Tim Lamb |
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In message , T i m
writes On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 23:22:12 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote: snip I will have similar issues: the router at one end and the lounge upstairs at the other. I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) If you still have the opportunity to flood wire R.C. with whatever the best spec Ethernet cable is (Cat5/6?) then you could put Access Points at whatever locations are appropriate. Or Wireless Powerline adaptors if you don't want to run the cable and want something more 'portable'. Summat like: TP-LINK TL-WPA4220TKIT AV600 (1 wired master, two wireless (+wired) slaves). With a wireless router that would give you 3 Wireless access points and if you put them all on the same SSID, it would become one big wireless network (I believe the TP-Link units allow you to set up the WiFi units using WPS (press button). Not exactly words of one syllable Tim:-) It would be nice to avoid multiple access codes for visitors needing connection but then moving elsewhere in the house. -- Tim Lamb |
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On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 10:23:27 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote: In message , T i m writes On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 23:22:12 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote: snip I will have similar issues: the router at one end and the lounge upstairs at the other. I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) If you still have the opportunity to flood wire R.C. with whatever the best spec Ethernet cable is (Cat5/6?) then you could put Access Points at whatever locations are appropriate. Or Wireless Powerline adaptors if you don't want to run the cable and want something more 'portable'. Summat like: TP-LINK TL-WPA4220TKIT AV600 (1 wired master, two wireless (+wired) slaves). With a wireless router that would give you 3 Wireless access points and if you put them all on the same SSID, it would become one big wireless network (I believe the TP-Link units allow you to set up the WiFi units using WPS (press button). Not exactly words of one syllable Tim:-) ;-) It would be nice to avoid multiple access codes for visitors needing connection but then moving elsewhere in the house. That's the good things about setting all the access points with the same SSID (Wireless network name) and password (that applies if you use Ethernet wired Access Points or Powerline ones). However, I don't think there is normally the same level of intelligence as with say Cellular Telephones where the link will 'hop' to a stronger signal if it senses one available. So, if say you made the first wireless connection to the Router and then walked to another room with another access point on the exact same network, I don't think it would use that (stronger signal) till the connection to the first one broke. Cheers, T i m p.s. Windows gives you the ability to prioritise the order of the network connections (so you set the one you are most likely to be nearest at the top of the list) but not sure you can do that with other OS's (FWIW etc). |
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On 13/01/17 10:11, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes In article , Tim Lamb wrote: The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing. Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads. My Victorian house had all the ceiling replaced during WW2 after bomb damage. With plain plasterboard. Seems to have survived those 70 odd years. OK. Probably over ventilated loft though. We had an Edwardian (1909?) gabled house with roll tiles and no underfelt. Dry blowing snow used to find a way in to the loft. We once had 2" on top of the insulation! May be more necessary with modern crap timber, though. I was a bit surprised to find modern structural timber is not treated with preservative!# Actually, it all is now -- €œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism (or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans, about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a 'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,' a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian utopia of 1984.€ Vaclav Klaus |
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In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes On 13/01/17 10:11, Tim Lamb wrote: I was a bit surprised to find modern structural timber is not treated with preservative!# Actually, it all is now Er. not necessarily. I have just had some roof trusses fitted. Designed and supplied by Pasquill of Leicester. Either they or the builder decided timber preservative treatment was not required. -- Tim Lamb |
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"Tim Lamb" wrote in message ... In message , Charles F writes "Tim Lamb" wrote in message . .. First fix wiring started. Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing and inspection issues? -- Tim Lamb Yes to thermal store - home brew (s/steel hot cylinder, normal central heating pump, plate heat exchanger, and flow switch with homebrew electronics) about 8 years ago. No inspection issues, as the cylinder is non pressurised with a small header tank. There is inhibiter in the cylinder - still original, and looks OK so far. No complications re DHW plumbing - almost all in 15mm, as mains pressure is (via reduction valve) about 3.5bar. I did take the precaution of having valves and capped pipe stubs on the DHW side of the heat exchanger, which lets me isolate and pump (via old central heating pump) descaler through the plates every few years to stop it liming up - might be worth a thought, as the heat exchanger is likely to be the most difficult item to source or replace. Otherwise it just works..... All hot water will be softened here (East of the Chiltern Hills!) but good to know a satisfied user. Roughly what is the cylinder volume and usage? Daughters seem to use an inordinate amount of hot water when showering! -- Tim Lamb Cylinder is 1050 high and 450 diameter, 140 litres, the biggest I could get into the existing cupboard This does for the two of us, so that we can have two decent showers in quick succession, or even simultaneously if we don't push the flow rate, but you would want a bigger store for multiple females with a tendency for long showers. We run the store at 55 deg C, which gives DHW at about the max that is sensible for safety. This is the simple way, but you could get greater stored heat capacity in the same size cylinder by running the cylinder hotter and using a thermostatic mixing valve on the heat exchanger output. The system behaves rather like a combi boiler, but with greater heat capacity, and like a combi it starts to show it's limits in winter when the incoming water is at its coldest. Thus in winter showers are still fine, but bath filling (not too often used) is slower than a conventional hot tank, but quite a lot faster than a combi. One aspect that I'm going to deal with soon is that normal mechanical tank stats (to trigger the boiler) have a hysteresis of about 10 deg C, which can mean that if one person has a rather long shower and drops the cylinder by 9.5 degs, the cylinder doesn't start to reheat until the next shower is started, which can mean that the second one can be less hot than wanted. I'm looking at the proliferation of Chinese thermostatic PCBs, which have a hysteresis of more like 3 deg, to improve the situation. One other point - don't do as I did and assume that the usual magnet + reed relay flow switches can control a central heating pump directly - the result is welded contacts on the reed relay, which should have been the obvious result.... Now the flow switch controls a relay with decent contacts via a transistor, and has been reliable for some years. Charles F --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
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T i m wrote:
That's the good things about setting all the access points with the same SSID (Wireless network name) and password (that applies if you use Ethernet wired Access Points or Powerline ones). However, I don't think there is normally the same level of intelligence as with say Cellular Telephones where the link will 'hop' to a stronger signal if it senses one available. So, if say you made the first wireless connection to the Router and then walked to another room with another access point on the exact same network, I don't think it would use that (stronger signal) till the connection to the first one broke. Yeah, some drivers have a threshold you can lower that will make them tend to roam rather than cling like grim death to a weak signal. It's one of the reasons why businesses tend towards a controller for multiple wifi points, the controller can tell that a given device is using the "wrong" access point for the location it is in, and kick it off, so the device will then connect to a better access point. |
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In message , Charles F
writes All hot water will be softened here (East of the Chiltern Hills!) but good to know a satisfied user. Roughly what is the cylinder volume and usage? Daughters seem to use an inordinate amount of hot water when showering! -- Tim Lamb Cylinder is 1050 high and 450 diameter, 140 litres, the biggest I could get into the existing cupboard This does for the two of us, so that we can have two decent showers in quick succession, or even simultaneously if we don't push the flow rate, but you would want a bigger store for multiple females with a tendency for long showers. OK I am a bit pushed on diameter but weight and height could go double. We run the store at 55 deg C, which gives DHW at about the max that is sensible for safety. This is the simple way, but you could get greater stored heat capacity in the same size cylinder by running the cylinder hotter and using a thermostatic mixing valve on the heat exchanger output. 55 deg. C seems very low. I suppose you are not concerned by disease with no direct contact but it must seriously reduce the total useable hot water. I will use bar mixers for showers and rely on users blending cold in for baths etc. The system behaves rather like a combi boiler, but with greater heat capacity, and like a combi it starts to show it's limits in winter when the incoming water is at its coldest. Thus in winter showers are still fine, but bath filling (not too often used) is slower than a conventional hot tank, but quite a lot faster than a combi. One aspect that I'm going to deal with soon is that normal mechanical tank stats (to trigger the boiler) have a hysteresis of about 10 deg C, which can mean that if one person has a rather long shower and drops the cylinder by 9.5 degs, the cylinder doesn't start to reheat until the next shower is started, which can mean that the second one can be less hot than wanted. I'm looking at the proliferation of Chinese thermostatic PCBs, which have a hysteresis of more like 3 deg, to improve the situation. OK One other point - don't do as I did and assume that the usual magnet + reed relay flow switches can control a central heating pump directly - the result is welded contacts on the reed relay, which should have been the obvious result.... Now the flow switch controls a relay with decent contacts via a transistor, and has been reliable for some years. :-) Thanks. -- Tim Lamb |
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"Tim Lamb" wrote in message ... In message , Charles F writes All hot water will be softened here (East of the Chiltern Hills!) but good to know a satisfied user. Roughly what is the cylinder volume and usage? Daughters seem to use an inordinate amount of hot water when showering! -- Tim Lamb Cylinder is 1050 high and 450 diameter, 140 litres, the biggest I could get into the existing cupboard This does for the two of us, so that we can have two decent showers in quick succession, or even simultaneously if we don't push the flow rate, but you would want a bigger store for multiple females with a tendency for long showers. OK I am a bit pushed on diameter but weight and height could go double. We run the store at 55 deg C, which gives DHW at about the max that is sensible for safety. This is the simple way, but you could get greater stored heat capacity in the same size cylinder by running the cylinder hotter and using a thermostatic mixing valve on the heat exchanger output. 55 deg. C seems very low. I suppose you are not concerned by disease with no direct contact but it must seriously reduce the total useable hot water. I will use bar mixers for showers and rely on users blending cold in for baths etc. 55 deg at the store gives a hot water temperature at the taps that if unmixed will make you pull your hand out fairly quickly, but doesn't immediately burn skin. 60 degrees at the store is very uncomfortable at the taps. Most thermostatic showers have an initial limit of 38 degrees.... With 1 grandchild here and another imminent I'm cautious about that, but with older children/teenagers you could go higher, and that would certainly store more heat. Most of the commercial heat banks do run the store at higher temps, and then use a thermostatic mixing valve to reduce the DHW to something safer. As far as disease (legionnaires I presume) the store has inhibitor in it, is quite separate from the DHW, and there is no storage of DHW - so I don't think there is a problem - we are still here at any rate! Charles F --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
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On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:49:23 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote: T i m wrote: That's the good things about setting all the access points with the same SSID (Wireless network name) and password (that applies if you use Ethernet wired Access Points or Powerline ones). However, I don't think there is normally the same level of intelligence as with say Cellular Telephones where the link will 'hop' to a stronger signal if it senses one available. So, if say you made the first wireless connection to the Router and then walked to another room with another access point on the exact same network, I don't think it would use that (stronger signal) till the connection to the first one broke. Yeah, some drivers have a threshold you can lower that will make them tend to roam rather than cling like grim death to a weak signal. Interesting. It's one of the reasons why businesses tend towards a controller for multiple wifi points, the controller can tell that a given device is using the "wrong" access point for the location it is in, and kick it off, so the device will then connect to a better access point. Makes sense. Cheers, T i m |
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Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , jim writes Tim Lamb Wrote in message: In message , jim writes Tim Lamb Wrote in message: First fix wiring started. Now the plaster board and insulation. The original house has a plastic moisture barrier between warm space and cold lofts. When I ran the necessity of repeating this for the new bits by the architect he said things have moved on and that it is no longer required. He did agree that foil backed PB would be a good thing. Any thoughts bearing in mind comments from earlier threads. Sounds like he knows something really really new or he's a cock? The inference was that it was thought important when modern timber frame housing started but less so now. Permeable felt has come along for one thing. Tacking up polythene is not difficult for room spaces but small warm loft areas much harder. Also.. has anyone used a thermal store rather than a megaflow. Plumbing and inspection issues? Only if pressurised. Vented (feed & expansion tank) = no requirements AFAIK. I was hoping for comments on performance. Why mention "inspection issues" then? :-) Sorry. More of a reason for my interest rather than quest for further knowledge. Owners speak grandly about having a *megalflo* without mentioning any of the downsides. That's OK then, for a moment there I thought you might be being "a bit sniffy"... ;-) -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
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In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes En el artículo , Tim Lamb escribió: I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down, floorboards up, etc. Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later. Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.) Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium). OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near ignorance, what terminations are used? -- Tim Lamb |
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On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 09:06:15 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote: snip I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. As an aside, is that the best place to have the centre of your wiring? Eg, if it's in the hall, so you want the router, possibly an Ethernet switch and all the cables in the hall by your front door? An alternative is you can put all your 'comms' in a cupboard somewhere and then just run a cable or two between where the router might sit (say a couple of places) and said comms space or get the BT line / Cable fed into there as well. I have done just that with / for several people and it worked out very well. From a point of near ignorance, what terminations are used? Although many people crimp plugs directly to the ends of the cable, said cable should be solid copper (not stranded) and so is *supposed* to be punched-down into a box ('Krone') or patch panel, and from there you would take flexible cable to your router / switch / PC etc. You can get SOHO RJ45 patch panels (make sure they are for Cat6) and surface mount or flush, single or double RJ45 wall boxes http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/twin-cat6-...it-white-n80jh and although you can get disposable punch down tools, proper ones are pretty cheap. https://adeptnetworks.co.uk/krone-type-punch-down-tool If you insist on putting crimp-on RJ45 connectors on the end of solid cables I believe you can get some plugs that are suited to that (but I prefer to do it properly). ;-) http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-cat...-10-pack-n20ch http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Solid-vs-S...2065324/g.html You will also need a crimp tool of course. Plus, it's quite easy to arrange and connect the wires correctly in the punch-down connectors and easier to buy patch cables for the ends from the likes of eBay than making them! http://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/2987-cat6-data-outlets https://adeptnetworks.co.uk/10-soho-12-port-cat-6-patch-panel Cheers, T i m p.s. Links offered as examples of the gear used, not as a suggestion as to where to get them etc. |
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On 14/01/17 09:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson writes En el artÃ*culo , Tim Lamb escribió: I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down, floorboards up, etc. Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later. Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.) Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium). OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near ignorance, what terminations are used? You terminate into standard back boxes with (twin) RJ45 plates on them that you punch down the CAT 5 onto with a krone type tool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyYBEed0nEM At the hub end, you probably need a patch panel which is a LOT of RJ45s on a single (19" rack) mount panel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgvmM6R8rQc A gigabit switch and some ethernet patch cables of pretty colours completes the job. Wire the router up to the switch, and the switch to the patch panel and Ethernet is available wherever there is a socket. -- Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns. |
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On 14/01/2017 09:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson writes En el artículo , Tim Lamb escribió: I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down, floorboards up, etc. Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later. Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.) Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium). OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near ignorance, what terminations are used? Have a look at http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Structured_wiring_system which has lots of good advice from John Rumm *and* pretty pictures. But don't worry if your wiring isn't as tidy as John shows in the rear of the patch panel: IME it still works if it looks like a des. res. for the mice :) -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
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In message , T i m
writes On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 09:06:15 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote: snip I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. As an aside, is that the best place to have the centre of your wiring? Eg, if it's in the hall, so you want the router, possibly an Ethernet switch and all the cables in the hall by your front door? An alternative is you can put all your 'comms' in a cupboard somewhere and then just run a cable or two between where the router might sit (say a couple of places) and said comms space or get the BT line / Cable fed into there as well. I have done just that with / for several people and it worked out very well. The intake point, router and my PC will all be in the study which has a window overlooking the farmyard. Open Reach strongly advised keeping the intake/router cable short. (We have had the discussion on negligible effect:-) From a point of near ignorance, what terminations are used? Although many people crimp plugs directly to the ends of the cable, said cable should be solid copper (not stranded) and so is *supposed* to be punched-down into a box ('Krone') or patch panel, and from there you would take flexible cable to your router / switch / PC etc. You can get SOHO RJ45 patch panels (make sure they are for Cat6) and surface mount or flush, single or double RJ45 wall boxes OK Ta. -- Tim Lamb |
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In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes On 14/01/17 09:06, Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Mike Tomlinson writes En el artículo , Tim Lamb escribió: I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down, floorboards up, etc. Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later. Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.) Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium). OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near ignorance, what terminations are used? You terminate into standard back boxes with (twin) RJ45 plates on them that you punch down the CAT 5 onto with a krone type tool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyYBEed0nEM At the hub end, you probably need a patch panel which is a LOT of RJ45s on a single (19" rack) mount panel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgvmM6R8rQc A gigabit switch and some ethernet patch cables of pretty colours completes the job. Wire the router up to the switch, and the switch to the patch panel and Ethernet is available wherever there is a socket. Hmm.. Wife will use Ethernet for her static laptop but the rest of the family expect wi-fi -- Tim Lamb |
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In message , Robin
writes On 14/01/2017 09:06, Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Mike Tomlinson writes En el artículo , Tim Lamb escribió: I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down, floorboards up, etc. Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later. Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.) Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium). OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near ignorance, what terminations are used? Have a look at http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Structured_wiring_system which has lots of good advice from John Rumm *and* pretty pictures. But don't worry if your wiring isn't as tidy as John shows in the rear of the patch panel: IME it still works if it looks like a des. res. for the mice :) Crumbs. I see the points about running lots of cable for future need! -- Tim Lamb |
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On 14/01/17 11:21, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Robin wrote: On 14/01/2017 09:06, Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Mike Tomlinson writes En el artÃ*culo , Tim Lamb escribió: I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down, floorboards up, etc. Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later. Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.) Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium). OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near ignorance, what terminations are used? Have a look at http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Structured_wiring_system which has lots of good advice from John Rumm *and* pretty pictures. But don't worry if your wiring isn't as tidy as John shows in the rear of the patch panel: IME it still works if it looks like a des. res. for the mice :) Depends how much you are changing it. Prolly OK in a domestic setting, but having to deal with a spaghetti of hundreds of cable can be a nightmare. Keep it tidy. Also the article doesn't appear to mention labelling the cables. Always label both ends of each cable so that, having pulled them, you're not sat there wondering which one you've got hold of. The cable should have the same label at each end. OTOH if the labels fall off, dont fret. Simply short two wires together at the far end, and then check continuity on each cable at the hub end in turn... -- You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. Al Capone |
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On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 11:21:01 +0000, Tim Streater
wrote: snip Also the article doesn't appear to mention labelling the cables. Always label both ends of each cable so that, having pulled them, you're not sat there wondering which one you've got hold of. For a small number of cables I have found simple Biro / CD marker pen gives sufficiently good results and is less likely to get pulled off than a weak label (or one where the glue dries up in time) or something that gets caught up when being pulled though etc (like some of the cable-tie type markers)). I also often put one mark near the end and another a bit further along, in case the end gets trimmed off (doh). ;-) Worst comes to the worst (no marking or test gear) you can often work out what goes where just using the length markers (as no two cables are likely to have the same range). Made easier by the cables all being laid in off the roll in the same direction. ;-) Cheers, T i m |
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On 14/01/17 11:51, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher writes On 14/01/17 09:06, Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Mike Tomlinson writes En el artÃ*culo , Tim Lamb escribió: I am hoping someone will give a words of few syllables instruction how to migrate the wi-fi using ethernet cable:-) Run a few cables while you have the opportunity with walls down, floorboards up, etc. Run twice as many as you think you need, i.e. if you think you'll need an ethernet point at one location, run two cables to it. You need not use both now, but will be glad of it at some point in the future, and it's easier and cheaper to do it now than later. Consider running cables to points even if you think they will not be needed now (change of room use, room re-organisation, etc.) Use Cat5e or Cat6 cable, and make sure you get all-copper, not CCS or CCA (copper-coated steel, aluminium). OK Mike. I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. From a point of near ignorance, what terminations are used? You terminate into standard back boxes with (twin) RJ45 plates on them that you punch down the CAT 5 onto with a krone type tool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyYBEed0nEM At the hub end, you probably need a patch panel which is a LOT of RJ45s on a single (19" rack) mount panel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgvmM6R8rQc A gigabit switch and some ethernet patch cables of pretty colours completes the job. Wire the router up to the switch, and the switch to the patch panel and Ethernet is available wherever there is a socket. Hmm.. Wife will use Ethernet for her static laptop but the rest of the family expect wi-fi Well attach wifi repeaters to the ends of the ethernet to punch through the corrugated iron walls of yer barn... -- "What do you think about Gay Marriage?" "I don't." "Don't what?" "Think about Gay Marriage." |
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On 14/01/2017 11:21, Tim Streater wrote:
But don't worry if your wiring isn't as tidy as John shows in the rear of the patch panel: IME it still works if it looks like a des. res. for the mice :) Depends how much you are changing it. Prolly OK in a domestic setting, but having to deal with a spaghetti of hundreds of cable can be a nightmare. Keep it tidy. Fair enough. My comment was based on the OP being possibly never having wired a Krone before and being worried if it he didn't get every wire just the right length from the start. Also the article doesn't appear to mention labelling the cables. Always label both ends of each cable so that, having pulled them, you're not sat there wondering which one you've got hold of. The cable should have the same label at each end. It does have "Drag out a pair of cables to the length of your longest pair in the loom. Then tape them together at intervals of every metre or so, plus at each end. Finally use a permanent marker or some other system to label each end." -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
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"Tim Lamb" wrote in message ... In message , T i m writes On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 09:06:15 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote: snip I have 100m of Cat 6 ordered and will lay in runs from the telephone intake point to likely outlet needs. As an aside, is that the best place to have the centre of your wiring? Eg, if it's in the hall, so you want the router, possibly an Ethernet switch and all the cables in the hall by your front door? An alternative is you can put all your 'comms' in a cupboard somewhere and then just run a cable or two between where the router might sit (say a couple of places) and said comms space or get the BT line / Cable fed into there as well. I have done just that with / for several people and it worked out very well. The intake point, router and my PC will all be in the study which has a window overlooking the farmyard. Open Reach strongly advised keeping the intake/router cable short. (We have had the discussion on negligible effect:-) I think I met a slightly more sensible Openreach engineer, who said that extending from the master socket to the router would be fine *providing* it was done in Cat5/6 cable. So I extended the split outputs of the master socket (phones and internet) via a double wall socket by the BT socket, about 15M of cat 5e cable, and a patch panel, and thence to the router, and there is no visible performance difference to having the router right next to the master socket. It also puts the router in the centre of the house at ceiling level, which helps with wi-fi coverage. Are you going to use all these new cables for wired phones too? Or are wired phones so last century! Charles F --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
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On 1/14/2017 6:21 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
Depends how much you are changing it. Prolly OK in a domestic setting, but having to deal with a spaghetti of hundreds of cable can be a nightmare. Keep it tidy. Also the article doesn't appear to mention labelling the cables. Always label both ends of each cable so that, having pulled them, you're not sat there wondering which one you've got hold of. The cable should have the same label at each end. Excellent advice. I use a Brother labelmaker - tapes are available in a range of colours and widths. |
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On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 12:37:53 -0000, "Charles F"
wrote: snip The intake point, router and my PC will all be in the study which has a window overlooking the farmyard. Open Reach strongly advised keeping the intake/router cable short. (We have had the discussion on negligible effect:-) I think I met a slightly more sensible Openreach engineer, who said that extending from the master socket to the router would be fine *providing* it was done in Cat5/6 cable. Was the right answer. ;-) Well, I'm not sure if the 'std' twisted pair telephone cable is Cat5 or whatever but as long as you extend it the last few meters using something suitable (eg, not alarm wire) then it shouldn't have much impact over the several km it has already taken to get to you. ;-) Cheers, T i m |
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On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 13:19:35 +0000, T i m wrote:
Well, I'm not sure if the 'std' twisted pair telephone cable is Cat5 or whatever but as long as you extend it the last few meters using something suitable (eg, not alarm wire) then it shouldn't have much impact over the several km it has already taken to get to you. ;-) Although indoors is a pretty noisy environment electrically, so probably worth using reasonable cable even if only a few metres. My master socket is less than 1 metre from the router, so I use the cable that came with the router! -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
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On 14 Jan 2017 13:40:55 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 13:19:35 +0000, T i m wrote: Well, I'm not sure if the 'std' twisted pair telephone cable is Cat5 or whatever but as long as you extend it the last few meters using something suitable (eg, not alarm wire) then it shouldn't have much impact over the several km it has already taken to get to you. ;-) Although indoors is a pretty noisy environment electrically, so probably worth using reasonable cable even if only a few metres. Quite. I have replaced (mainly in the early days) quite a few telephone extension cables (used to put the router somewhere more convenient (and even with dial-up modems before that)) with twisted pair cables and it can make a big difference. My master socket is less than 1 metre from the router, so I use the cable that came with the router! Yeah, handy that. ;-) I'm on cable so just ran some CT100 in myself so they (CableTel at the time NTL VM) just connected into that. I use my VM supplied WiFi router as just a cable modem and have my main router elsewhere in any case (and next to my fully occupied 16 port Gb switch). ;-) Talking of cable, initially this place had Thin Ethernet (the 4Mb/s Token ring, AppleTalk and ArcNet was only in my workshop g) then Cat3 and some of that is still in use. ;-) Cheers, T i m |
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