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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Planned obsolescence
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#2
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Planned obsolescence
On Friday, 28 October 2016 19:03:41 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. Clearly you never owned the first UK mass produced automatic washer; the Hoover Keymatic. |
#3
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Planned obsolescence
On Saturday, October 29, 2016 at 7:19:45 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Friday, 28 October 2016 19:03:41 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. Clearly you never owned the first UK mass produced automatic washer; the Hoover Keymatic. It took me a while to figure out, and I did not buy a spindle, which I should have, but the satisfaction of bringing the machine back from the dead was worth the effort. Could do it in an hour now that I have done it once. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOTPOINT-A...AOSwwE5WVsm E |
#4
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Planned obsolescence
It usually seems to happen due to slow leaks rusting the bearings.
I know some LG machines are notorious for this and as its a direct drive system the motor has to be replaced as well which is uneconomic. Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "Tim+" wrote in message ... You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#5
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Planned obsolescence
Tim+ wrote:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. The parts warranty would probably be no help anyway - because they give you the 50p piece of plastic free, but you have to employ one of their service technicians at boggle per hour to fit it. (The 50p piece of plastic is of course sold by the spares department for rather more than that...) Theo |
#6
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Planned obsolescence
Tim+ wrote: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. You did well Tim. Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there are ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief. I will never buy another Hotpoint appliance. -- Jim White Wimbledon London England |
#7
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Planned obsolescence
On Sat, 29 Oct 2016 10:02:18 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote: It usually seems to happen due to slow leaks rusting the bearings. I know some LG machines are notorious for this and as its a direct drive system the motor has to be replaced as well which is uneconomic. This could be bad news for me as I bought an LG machine on the advice of the repairer, who declared my last machine beyond economic repair and recommended LG. |
#8
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Planned obsolescence
In article ,
Tim+ writes: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings too (welded drum seams). Yes, it is deliberate. Most people will only pay minimum for a machine now, and won't pay for perceived longevity. So to be competitive, manufacturers just have to make sure the machine lasts past the end of the warranty (6 years in law). If you want a machine which lasts 12 or 18 years, expect to pay at least 2-3 times as much, but they are a tiny proportion of the UK retail white good market (and they will need spares, and they also charge 2-3 times as much for spare parts). -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#9
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Planned obsolescence
On 30/10/16 17:23, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , Tim+ writes: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings too (welded drum seams). Yes, it is deliberate. Most people will only pay minimum for a machine now, and won't pay for perceived longevity. So to be competitive, manufacturers just have to make sure the machine lasts past the end of the warranty (6 years in law). If you want a machine which lasts 12 or 18 years, expect to pay at least 2-3 times as much, but they are a tiny proportion of the UK retail white good market (and they will need spares, and they also charge 2-3 times as much for spare parts). I certainly value longevity - changing a big heavy machine is a PITA and it's also a PITA if it breaks at an inconvenient time! OTOH I'm sort of happy if a laptop breaks as I get to buy a new one twice as powerful |
#10
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Planned obsolescence
Jim White wrote:
Tim+ wrote: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. You did well Tim. Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there are ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief. I will never buy another Hotpoint appliance. Wouldn't have been my first choice but it was a "distress purchase" by my other half. If I can keep it going for another six years with a bearing kit it'll have done okay. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#11
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Planned obsolescence
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , Tim+ writes: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings too (welded drum seams). Oops. Didn't think of that. Might need a lot duct tape to put it back together. ;-) Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#12
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Planned obsolescence
On Sun, 30 Oct 2016 10:26:27 +0000, Scott
wrote: On Sat, 29 Oct 2016 10:02:18 +0100, "Brian Gaff" wrote: It usually seems to happen due to slow leaks rusting the bearings. I know some LG machines are notorious for this and as its a direct drive system the motor has to be replaced as well which is uneconomic. This could be bad news for me as I bought an LG machine on the advice of the repairer, who declared my last machine beyond economic repair and recommended LG. A sample of one's not meaningful, but we bought a DD LG washing machine 11 years ago. The only fault has been a noisy pump which was both cheap and easy to replace. Our machine has bearings which can be changed without replacing the motor, so I wouldn't attach to much credence to Mr Gaffs hearsay. |
#13
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Planned obsolescence
On Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:04:10 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
Jim White wrote: Tim+ wrote: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. You did well Tim. Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there are ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief. I will never buy another Hotpoint appliance. Wouldn't have been my first choice but it was a "distress purchase" by my other half. If I can keep it going for another six years with a bearing kit it'll have done okay. I kept our Service Quartz (Mk1) going for an extra 15 years or so by replacing the bearings and seals twice. It was one of the first microprocessor controlled washing machines on the market some 30 odd years ago. Funnily enough, we had to have the service engineer out less than a week from purchase to replace a faulty controller/display board but after that initial teething problem, in spite of some mods I made to the board many years later to accommodate an alternative drum motor from a discarded Bendix w/m, we never had any more trouble from the controller board. Anyway, my experience with the drum bearing repair kits might be of some relevance if the bearings are the taper roller type as was that Service Quartz machine's bearings. The kit included all necessary parts, new seal, taper roller bearing, aluminium crush washer and a shim washer to be fitted temporarily to obtain the correct pre-load from the crush washer. The instructions were quite clear about the use of the shim washer. The drum shaft bearing nut was to be tightened right down till it bound on the step at the bottom of the threaded part with the washer fitted and then it was to be undone to remove the shim and done up fully tight again with the crush washer now crushed to provide the correct preload sans the shim washer which, according to the instructions, could now be discarded. Unfortunately, I followed this last instruction to the letter. :-( After about 6 months of service, I noticed that the drum had lost its initial preload resistance and was noticeably less stiff to rotate by hand. Not only that but I could detect a just discernible hint of slop in the bearings which my knowledge of the importance of preload with taper roller bearings, didn't bode at all well. Sure enough, within another 6 months, the drum bearings were once again, well and truly shagged and I found myself fitting a second drum bearing kit. However, I'd wised up to the deliberate mistake made with the final instruction regarding discarding of the shim washer and hung onto it so I could refit it at the first hint of sloppiness in the new bearings which I did about 5 or 6 months later. The machine was still working some 15 years later when our daughter offered us an almost unused newer washing machine to replace our venerable Service Quartz (Mk1) which by then was starting to look its age (not a problem for me but the missus had become sick of the sight of it in its refusal to lay down and die). The moral of this story is if a replacement drum bearing kit is based on taper roller bearings and a deformable pre-load crush washer with a setting shim, ignore the imperative to discard the shim after completion of the repair and hold onto it for the next 6 to 12 months it'll likely take for the need to refit it to become apparent. With taper roller bearings, a touch too little preload is far more destructive than a touch too much, especially if an aluminium crush washer has been used to achieve the correct (initial) preload. HTH -- Johnny B Good |
#14
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Planned obsolescence
On Saturday, 29 October 2016 22:59:09 UTC+1, Jim White wrote:
Tim+ wrote: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. You did well Tim. Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there are ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief. I will never buy another Hotpoint appliance. -- Jim White Wimbledon London England Miele is the best if you can afford. Ours is nearly thirty years old. Touch wood, only ever needed the waste filter cleaned out twice. |
#15
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Planned obsolescence
On 31/10/2016 07:11, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 29 October 2016 22:59:09 UTC+1, Jim White wrote: Tim+ wrote: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. You did well Tim. Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there are ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief. I will never buy another Hotpoint appliance. -- Jim White Wimbledon London England Miele is the best if you can afford. Ours is nearly thirty years old. Touch wood, only ever needed the waste filter cleaned out twice. Zanussi here, coming up to 13 years ol, cleaned filter once. |
#16
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Planned obsolescence
On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 07:23:01 -0000, Bod wrote:
On 31/10/2016 07:11, harry wrote: On Saturday, 29 October 2016 22:59:09 UTC+1, Jim White wrote: Tim+ wrote: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. You did well Tim. Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there are ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief. I will never buy another Hotpoint appliance. -- Jim White Wimbledon London England Miele is the best if you can afford. Ours is nearly thirty years old. Touch wood, only ever needed the waste filter cleaned out twice. Zanussi here, coming up to 13 years ol, cleaned filter once. My Bosch exploded at that age, but then it's had cat hairs and parrots ****/feathers to contend with. -- Why do men find it difficult to make eye contact? Breasts don't have eyes. |
#17
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Planned obsolescence
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , Tim+ writes: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings too (welded drum seams). Bugger. Think you could be right. Popped the top off tonight and the outer containment drum is a welded plastic affair so unless all the bearing can be replaced from the rear, it's not going to happen. I know the usual answer to "what new machine?" is Miele but are there any other brands with good reliability? Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#18
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Planned obsolescence
On Friday, 4 November 2016 18:46:52 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote: In article , Tim+ writes: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings too (welded drum seams). Bugger. Think you could be right. Popped the top off tonight and the outer containment drum is a welded plastic affair so unless all the bearing can be replaced from the rear, it's not going to happen. I know the usual answer to "what new machine?" is Miele but are there any other brands with good reliability? Tim Bosch seems to be the best bet at the low end. NT |
#19
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Planned obsolescence
On Fri, 4 Nov 2016 18:46:22 -0000 (UTC), Tim+ wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote: In article , Tim+ writes: You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty. Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the machine is beyond economic repair. That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings too (welded drum seams). Bugger. Think you could be right. Popped the top off tonight and the outer containment drum is a welded plastic affair so unless all the bearing can be replaced from the rear, it's not going to happen. I know the usual answer to "what new machine?" is Miele but are there any other brands with good reliability? Tim Possibly John Lewis' own brand. I had a Siemens (mid-range I suppose - £550) and it played up a lot and tended to fray things. In spite of video evidence, Siemens wasn't interested - JL gave me a full refund! The JL machine (8kg JLWM1414) has a big drum of about 70l and appears to be AEG (I used the booklet from an AEG whilst looking at the JL and it worked!). AEG seems to be pragmatic re. the figures: it gets the European water consumption rating by having 2 specific programmes for damp wash/garden shredder performance and then has proper cotton programmes. It's also semi-mechanical - no silly touch screen that doesn't decouple from my finger up to as much as 3 - 4mm away causing uncontrolled changes. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
#20
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Planned obsolescence
On 05/11/16 11:11, Huge wrote:
On 2016-11-05, PeterC wrote: [29 lines snipped] The JL machine (8kg JLWM1414) has a big drum of about 70l and appears to be AEG (I used the booklet from an AEG whilst looking at the JL and it worked!). AFAIK, JL own-brand *is* AEG. At least the fridges are ... I was told by the salesman in JL that they were AEG. -- djc (–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿) No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree. |
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