Planned obsolescence
 

You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts
warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing
machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the
machine is beyond economic repair.

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

Planned obsolescence
 

On Friday, 28 October 2016 19:03:41 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts
warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing
machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the
machine is beyond economic repair.


Clearly you never owned the first UK mass produced automatic washer; the Hoover Keymatic.

Planned obsolescence
 

On Saturday, October 29, 2016 at 7:19:45 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Friday, 28 October 2016 19:03:41 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts
warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing
machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the
machine is beyond economic repair.


Clearly you never owned the first UK mass produced automatic washer; the Hoover Keymatic.

It took me a while to figure out, and I did not buy a spindle, which I should have, but the satisfaction of bringing the machine back from the dead was worth the effort. Could do it in an hour now that I have done it once.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOTPOINT-A...AOSwwE5WVsm E

Planned obsolescence
 

It usually seems to happen due to slow leaks rusting the bearings.

I know some LG machines are notorious for this and as its a direct drive
system the motor has to be replaced as well which is uneconomic.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the
warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts
warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing
machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the
machine is beyond economic repair.

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

Planned obsolescence
 

Tim+ wrote:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts
warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing
machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the
machine is beyond economic repair.

The parts warranty would probably be no help anyway - because they give you
the 50p piece of plastic free, but you have to employ one of their service
technicians at boggle per hour to fit it.

(The 50p piece of plastic is of course sold by the spares department for
rather more than that...)

Theo

Planned obsolescence
 

Tim+ wrote:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than
the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the
parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first
washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the
rest of the machine is beyond economic repair.

You did well Tim.
Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is
effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there are
ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief. I
will never buy another Hotpoint appliance.

--
Jim White
Wimbledon London England

Planned obsolescence
 

On Sat, 29 Oct 2016 10:02:18 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

It usually seems to happen due to slow leaks rusting the bearings.

I know some LG machines are notorious for this and as its a direct drive
system the motor has to be replaced as well which is uneconomic.

This could be bad news for me as I bought an LG machine on the advice
of the repairer, who declared my last machine beyond economic repair
and recommended LG.

Planned obsolescence
 

In article ,
Tim+ writes:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts
warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing
machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the
machine is beyond economic repair.

That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings
too (welded drum seams).

Yes, it is deliberate. Most people will only pay minimum for a machine
now, and won't pay for perceived longevity. So to be competitive,
manufacturers just have to make sure the machine lasts past the end of
the warranty (6 years in law). If you want a machine which lasts 12 or
18 years, expect to pay at least 2-3 times as much, but they are a tiny
proportion of the UK retail white good market (and they will need
spares, and they also charge 2-3 times as much for spare parts).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Planned obsolescence
 

On 30/10/16 17:23, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim+ writes:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts
warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing
machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the
machine is beyond economic repair.

That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings
too (welded drum seams).

Yes, it is deliberate. Most people will only pay minimum for a machine
now, and won't pay for perceived longevity. So to be competitive,
manufacturers just have to make sure the machine lasts past the end of
the warranty (6 years in law). If you want a machine which lasts 12 or
18 years, expect to pay at least 2-3 times as much, but they are a tiny
proportion of the UK retail white good market (and they will need
spares, and they also charge 2-3 times as much for spare parts).


I certainly value longevity - changing a big heavy machine is a PITA and
it's also a PITA if it breaks at an inconvenient time!

OTOH I'm sort of happy if a laptop breaks as I get to buy a new one
twice as powerful :)

Planned obsolescence
 

Jim White wrote:

Tim+ wrote:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than
the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the
parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first
washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the
rest of the machine is beyond economic repair.

You did well Tim.
Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is
effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there are
ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief. I
will never buy another Hotpoint appliance.


Wouldn't have been my first choice but it was a "distress purchase" by my
other half. If I can keep it going for another six years with a bearing
kit it'll have done okay.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Planned obsolescence
 

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim+ writes:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts
warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing
machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the
machine is beyond economic repair.

That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings
too (welded drum seams).

Oops. Didn't think of that. Might need a lot duct tape to put it back
together. ;-)

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

Planned obsolescence
 

On Sun, 30 Oct 2016 10:26:27 +0000, Scott
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Oct 2016 10:02:18 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

It usually seems to happen due to slow leaks rusting the bearings.

I know some LG machines are notorious for this and as its a direct drive
system the motor has to be replaced as well which is uneconomic.

This could be bad news for me as I bought an LG machine on the advice
of the repairer, who declared my last machine beyond economic repair
and recommended LG.

A sample of one's not meaningful, but we bought a DD LG washing
machine 11 years ago. The only fault has been a noisy pump which was
both cheap and easy to replace.

Our machine has bearings which can be changed without replacing the
motor, so I wouldn't attach to much credence to Mr Gaffs hearsay.

Planned obsolescence
 

On Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:04:10 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

Jim White wrote:

Tim+ wrote:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the
warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the
parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first
washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the
rest of the machine is beyond economic repair.

You did well Tim.
Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is
effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there
are ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief.
I will never buy another Hotpoint appliance.


Wouldn't have been my first choice but it was a "distress purchase" by
my other half. If I can keep it going for another six years with a
bearing kit it'll have done okay.


I kept our Service Quartz (Mk1) going for an extra 15 years or so by
replacing the bearings and seals twice. It was one of the first
microprocessor controlled washing machines on the market some 30 odd
years ago. Funnily enough, we had to have the service engineer out less
than a week from purchase to replace a faulty controller/display board
but after that initial teething problem, in spite of some mods I made to
the board many years later to accommodate an alternative drum motor from
a discarded Bendix w/m, we never had any more trouble from the controller
board.

Anyway, my experience with the drum bearing repair kits might be of some
relevance if the bearings are the taper roller type as was that Service
Quartz machine's bearings.

The kit included all necessary parts, new seal, taper roller bearing,
aluminium crush washer and a shim washer to be fitted temporarily to
obtain the correct pre-load from the crush washer.

The instructions were quite clear about the use of the shim washer. The
drum shaft bearing nut was to be tightened right down till it bound on
the step at the bottom of the threaded part with the washer fitted and
then it was to be undone to remove the shim and done up fully tight again
with the crush washer now crushed to provide the correct preload sans the
shim washer which, according to the instructions, could now be discarded.
Unfortunately, I followed this last instruction to the letter. :-(

After about 6 months of service, I noticed that the drum had lost its
initial preload resistance and was noticeably less stiff to rotate by
hand. Not only that but I could detect a just discernible hint of slop in
the bearings which my knowledge of the importance of preload with taper
roller bearings, didn't bode at all well.

Sure enough, within another 6 months, the drum bearings were once again,
well and truly shagged and I found myself fitting a second drum bearing
kit. However, I'd wised up to the deliberate mistake made with the final
instruction regarding discarding of the shim washer and hung onto it so I
could refit it at the first hint of sloppiness in the new bearings which
I did about 5 or 6 months later.

The machine was still working some 15 years later when our daughter
offered us an almost unused newer washing machine to replace our
venerable Service Quartz (Mk1) which by then was starting to look its age
(not a problem for me but the missus had become sick of the sight of it
in its refusal to lay down and die).

The moral of this story is if a replacement drum bearing kit is based on
taper roller bearings and a deformable pre-load crush washer with a
setting shim, ignore the imperative to discard the shim after completion
of the repair and hold onto it for the next 6 to 12 months it'll likely
take for the need to refit it to become apparent. With taper roller
bearings, a touch too little preload is far more destructive than a touch
too much, especially if an aluminium crush washer has been used to
achieve the correct (initial) preload.

HTH

--
Johnny B Good

Planned obsolescence
 

On Saturday, 29 October 2016 22:59:09 UTC+1, Jim White wrote:
Tim+ wrote:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than
the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the
parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first
washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the
rest of the machine is beyond economic repair.

You did well Tim.
Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is
effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there are
ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief. I
will never buy another Hotpoint appliance.

--
Jim White
Wimbledon London England

Miele is the best if you can afford.
Ours is nearly thirty years old.
Touch wood, only ever needed the waste filter cleaned out twice.

Planned obsolescence
 

On 31/10/2016 07:11, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 29 October 2016 22:59:09 UTC+1, Jim White wrote:
Tim+ wrote:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than
the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the
parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first
washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the
rest of the machine is beyond economic repair.

You did well Tim.
Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is
effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there are
ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief. I
will never buy another Hotpoint appliance.

--
Jim White
Wimbledon London England

Miele is the best if you can afford.
Ours is nearly thirty years old.
Touch wood, only ever needed the waste filter cleaned out twice.


Zanussi here, coming up to 13 years ol, cleaned filter once.

Planned obsolescence
 

On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 07:23:01 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2016 07:11, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 29 October 2016 22:59:09 UTC+1, Jim White wrote:
Tim+ wrote:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than
the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the
parts warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first
washing machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the
rest of the machine is beyond economic repair.

You did well Tim.
Ours has just died at just over two years. The 'guarantee' is
effectively worthless. This was a sealed drum assembly. I know there are
ways of replacing the bearings, but TBH I couldn't face the grief. I
will never buy another Hotpoint appliance.

--
Jim White
Wimbledon London England

Miele is the best if you can afford.
Ours is nearly thirty years old.
Touch wood, only ever needed the waste filter cleaned out twice.


Zanussi here, coming up to 13 years ol, cleaned filter once.

My Bosch exploded at that age, but then it's had cat hairs and parrots ****/feathers to contend with.

--
Why do men find it difficult to make eye contact?
Breasts don't have eyes.

Planned obsolescence
 

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim+ writes:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts
warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing
machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the
machine is beyond economic repair.

That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings
too (welded drum seams).

Bugger. Think you could be right.

Popped the top off tonight and the outer containment drum is a welded
plastic affair so unless all the bearing can be replaced from the rear,
it's not going to happen.

I know the usual answer to "what new machine?" is Miele but are there any
other brands with good reliability?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Planned obsolescence
 

On Friday, 4 November 2016 18:46:52 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim+ writes:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts
warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing
machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the
machine is beyond economic repair.

That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings
too (welded drum seams).

Bugger. Think you could be right.

Popped the top off tonight and the outer containment drum is a welded
plastic affair so unless all the bearing can be replaced from the rear,
it's not going to happen.

I know the usual answer to "what new machine?" is Miele but are there any
other brands with good reliability?

Tim

Bosch seems to be the best bet at the low end.


NT

Planned obsolescence
 

On Fri, 4 Nov 2016 18:46:22 -0000 (UTC), Tim+ wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim+ writes:
You have to have a kind of grudging admiration for the way that some
washing machine parts are designed to last *just* longer than the warranty.

Our six year Hotpoint's main bearings are on their way out and the parts
warranty is of course five years. This will be the very first washing
machine that I've owned whose bearings have died before the rest of the
machine is beyond economic repair.

That age is probably on the boardline of having non-replacable bearings
too (welded drum seams).

Bugger. Think you could be right.

Popped the top off tonight and the outer containment drum is a welded
plastic affair so unless all the bearing can be replaced from the rear,
it's not going to happen.

I know the usual answer to "what new machine?" is Miele but are there any
other brands with good reliability?

Tim

Possibly John Lewis' own brand. I had a Siemens (mid-range I suppose - £550)
and it played up a lot and tended to fray things. In spite of video
evidence, Siemens wasn't interested - JL gave me a full refund!
The JL machine (8kg JLWM1414) has a big drum of about 70l and appears to be
AEG (I used the booklet from an AEG whilst looking at the JL and it
worked!).
AEG seems to be pragmatic re. the figures: it gets the European water
consumption rating by having 2 specific programmes for damp wash/garden
shredder performance and then has proper cotton programmes.
It's also semi-mechanical - no silly touch screen that doesn't decouple from
my finger up to as much as 3 - 4mm away causing uncontrolled changes.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Planned obsolescence
 

On 05/11/16 11:11, Huge wrote:
On 2016-11-05, PeterC wrote:

[29 lines snipped]

The JL machine (8kg JLWM1414) has a big drum of about 70l and appears to be
AEG (I used the booklet from an AEG whilst looking at the JL and it
worked!).

AFAIK, JL own-brand *is* AEG. At least the fridges are ...

I was told by the salesman in JL that they were AEG.

--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.