On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:09:22 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/11/2016 13:22, whisky-dave wrote:


Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them as
kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?


I used to have a 250W metal halide up lighter, it was really bright and
very white, just what you need in a kitchen.

If the ballast hadn't fried I would still use it.

If my dimmer had of worked properly I'd still be using it.

In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
On 01/11/2016 13:22, whisky-dave wrote:


Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them as
kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?


I used to have a 250W metal halide up lighter, it was really bright and
very white, just what you need in a kitchen.

If the ballast hadn't fried I would still use it.

I also had one as an outside light at one time. Much more efficient than
tungsten. Where it is likely to be on for long periods.

--
*Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
You said they blew up the dimmer?

I used the word blow up to describe the dimmer not working properly
after fitting two LEDs to the 4 way unit the other two were whatever you
wish to call them onm this day at this hour take yuor pick.

Are you now saying the dimmer was actually ok if you went back to tungsten?

--
*Xerox and Wurlitzer will merge to market reproductive organs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:27:10 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 14:07:55 UTC, wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 13:22:04 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them as
kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?

FWIW you used to able to buy those. They had a filament lamp in series
with the mercury all in one envelope. Mad idea.

Well that explains why Dave Plowman has them, any idea what the filiment
was made of and can they be dimmed ?

Why ask a question about something you appear to be an expert in?

I don;t know anything about those with a filiment lamp in series with the mercury one.
Whe I moved in in 1988 ther was one 5ft florescent tube.




To the
point where you've must have looked to buy them?

No never.


But given you're the expert there will be no need to Google to find what
Mercury and Halide are.

I know what they are just never usewd them in my kitchen any more than I';ve used sodium lapm in teh kitchen I iused to in a physics lab but I didn;t think they were suitable or practicle in the kitchen.

Or at least how those terms are used by those who
know about such technology.

far more than you it seems.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
You can dim DC LEDs with a simple pot.

Not very well.
What are DC LEDs ?

Thought even you knew all LEDs were basically DC devices.

Yoiu don;t need a pot just a varible resistance will do.

If you have lots and lots of spare time, yes.

--
*IS THERE ANOTHER WORD FOR SYNONYM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 13:07:47 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Maybe you are thinking of halide lamps that don't work the same
way?

No. Or if yuo;r confused please show me a light fitting you can
buy
in B&Q suitable for kitchen or bathroom use.

Is your definition of something is if B&Q sell it? Did you get your
iPhone there?

Oh yes very amusing I see now how just clueless and pathetic you can
be.

1/ B&Q don;t sell iPhone's

They don't sell HMI lamps either. Just my point.

They don't sell kebabs either. Just my point.


That doesn't mean they don't exist.

Yes anoth 500m or so is my local kebab shop also open on a sunday at 3pm.
So kebabs exist too.


Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them as
kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?

Interesting the way your mind sort of works.

That's not a mind, its just a sewer. Should be obvious from the ****.

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:57:14 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
On 01/11/2016 13:22, whisky-dave wrote:


Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them as
kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?


I used to have a 250W metal halide up lighter, it was really bright and
very white, just what you need in a kitchen.

If the ballast hadn't fried I would still use it.

I also had one as an outside light at one time. Much more efficient than
tungsten. Where it is likely to be on for long periods.

My kitchen isn't outside and I don;t see how a 250 metal halide up lighter would be better than 4X35W (whatever you want to call them) or 4X4W LEDs
unless you have a massuve kitchen.

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:57:15 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
You can dim DC LEDs with a simple pot.

Not very well.
What are DC LEDs ?

Thought even you knew all LEDs were basically DC devices.

I do so tend not to call them DC devices never seen them advertised or sold as such either.


Yoiu don;t need a pot just a varible resistance will do.

If you have lots and lots of spare time, yes.

How much spare time does it take ?

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:57:15 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
You said they blew up the dimmer?

I used the word blow up to describe the dimmer not working properly
after fitting two LEDs to the 4 way unit the other two were whatever you
wish to call them onm this day at this hour take yuor pick.

Are you now saying the dimmer was actually ok if you went back to tungsten?

Why not go back and read the original post where I decribed what happened ?

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:57:15 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
You said they blew up the dimmer?

I used the word blow up to describe the dimmer not working properly
after fitting two LEDs to the 4 way unit the other two were whatever you
wish to call them onm this day at this hour take yuor pick.

Are you now saying the dimmer was actually ok if you went back to tungsten?

From a previous post you replied to.

Dave Plowman (News)
31 Oct
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
No I haven;t, you just didn't understand the situation as usual.

I've understood perfectly well.

Then you got it plain wrong then.


I actually said that it's quite common for a dimmer to fail when a
tungsten bulb blows.

WTF ! Mine blew when I replaced two halgen bulbs with 2 LED
versions, well didn;t blow so much as not work, flicker and not
reach full brightness.

So likely nothing wrong with the dimmer. Thought everyone knew not all
mains LEDs can be dimmed.

So why didn't the dimmer dim the ghalagen bulbs when the LEDs were
removed ?

Because you broke it through your stupidity?

Never mind. It's an easy job to fix a dimmer. Oh - forgot. You can't
solder.
----------------------------------------------------------

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Thought even you knew all LEDs were basically DC devices.

I do so tend not to call them DC devices never seen them advertised or sold as such either.

No wonder you don't understand how to dim them.

--
*Sherlock Holmes never said "Elementary, my dear Watson" *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 01 Nov 2016 07:07:53 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 13:22:04 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them as
kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?

FWIW you used to able to buy those. They had a filament lamp in series
with the mercury all in one envelope. Mad idea.

MBT lamps. Not entirely mad else they would never have made it to market.

--
Johnny B Good

On 01/11/2016 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:57:15 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
You can dim DC LEDs with a simple pot.

Not very well.
What are DC LEDs ?

Thought even you knew all LEDs were basically DC devices.

I do so tend not to call them DC devices never seen them advertised or sold as such either.

Light Emitting DIODE should give it away.

Maybe you should talk about LED lamps as they can be DC/AC or either.

On 01/11/2016 15:54, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:27:10 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 14:07:55 UTC, wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 13:22:04 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them as
kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?

FWIW you used to able to buy those. They had a filament lamp in series
with the mercury all in one envelope. Mad idea.

Well that explains why Dave Plowman has them, any idea what the filiment
was made of and can they be dimmed ?

Why ask a question about something you appear to be an expert in?

I don;t know anything about those with a filiment lamp in series with the mercury one.
Whe I moved in in 1988 ther was one 5ft florescent tube.

florescent tubes are mercury lamps and have filaments.

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 01/11/2016 15:54, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:27:10 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 14:07:55 UTC, wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 13:22:04 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them
as kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?

FWIW you used to able to buy those. They had a filament lamp in
series with the mercury all in one envelope. Mad idea.

Well that explains why Dave Plowman has them, any idea what the
filiment was made of and can they be dimmed ?

Why ask a question about something you appear to be an expert in?

I don;t know anything about those with a filiment lamp in series with
the mercury one. Whe I moved in in 1988 ther was one 5ft florescent
tube.

florescent tubes are mercury lamps and have filaments.

so do fluorescent ones

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 01/11/16 17:06, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2016 07:07:53 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 13:22:04 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them as
kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?

FWIW you used to able to buy those. They had a filament lamp in series
with the mercury all in one envelope. Mad idea.

MBT lamps. Not entirely mad else they would never have made it to market.

Like wind turbines homeopathic remedies, snake oil and domestic solar
panels?

ROFLMAO.


--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 07:18:17 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 31 October 2016 13:47:59 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:23:36 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:07:23 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 11:07:17 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 10:26:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I have NEVER had tungsten bulbs in the kitchen, when I
moved in in 1987 there was a florescent light, which I
replaced with a 4 way halogen. As the halogens died I
replaced them with LEDs.

Halogens are tungsten lamps, but never let facts get in the way
eh.

Halogens are different from standard tungsten lamps

obviously. They're still tungsten of course.

And both made of glass and metal too. So what made the glass bulbs
blow.

The only difference is in the gas used to fill the bulb,

No it's not there;'s more differences than that.
Seems you only know the very basics.

Halogen bulbs are technically incandescent light bulbs €“ illumination is
produced in both when a tungsten filament is heated sufficiently to emit
light or €œincandescence.€� The difference between the two is in the
composition of the glass envelope and the gas inside the envelope. A
standard incandescent bulb has a heat sensitive glass envelope that
contains an inert gas mixture, usually nitrogen-argon. When the tungsten
filament is heated it evaporates and deposits metal on the cooler glass
envelope (this is why incandescent bulbs appear black at the end of
life). This process requires incandescent bulb filaments to be heated
less than optimally to give the bulb a reasonable life. The lower
filament temperature gives incandescent bulbs their typical
orange-yellow, warm appearing light.
Halogen light bulbs utilize a fused quartz envelope (€œcapsule€�) allowing
for higher temperatures. Inside the quartz envelope is a vapour,
originally iodine, now usually bromine. The tungsten filament evaporates
as usual but the higher temperatures are sufficient to cause the
tungsten to mix with the vapour instead of depositing on the envelope.
Some of the evaporated tungsten is re-deposited on the filament. The
combination of this €œregenerative cycle€� and higher filament temperature
results in a bulb that has a longer life and slightly higher efficiency
than standard incandescent bulbs. The higher temperature filament also
produces the €œwhite€� light often associated with halogen bulbs.


did you note know that's why they are referred to differently.

Because they operate at a higher temperature and are more efficient.

more than that.

Let's get this right, shall we? :-)

Gas filled tungsten filament lamps use the gas filling (typically
Nitrogen) to suppress evaporation of the filament purely to reduce
blackening of the glass envelope. The extra heat loss via convection to
the envelope is offset by the improved efficacy due to the higher
filament temperature that can be used without the penalty of the rapid
deposition of tungsten that would otherwise ensue.

Halogen fillings (in conjunction with the use of a higher softening
temperature point boro-silicate glass envelope, the so called "quartz
glass") allows for even higher filament temperature operation by
recycling the tungsten halogen back to the (cooler parts) of the filament
which prevents blackening of the envelope which needs to be running at a
temperature ca 250 deg C in order to prevent the tungsten halogen vapour
from condensing out (the main reason why the "quartz glass" envelope is
so much smaller than that of a conventional tungsten filament
incandescent lamp).

HTH & HAND :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On Tue, 01 Nov 2016 05:26:31 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 12:11:14 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 17:12:03 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
But as regards wiring, dimmers, switches etc they can be
regarded as the
same.

Not when being replaced with LEDs that the whole point that
you've
missed yet again. When will you understand that LED dimmers
require trailing edge circuitry.

You've been Googling again.

Yep last year when I wanted my LEDs to dim.



BTW, have two mains LEDs here running off a 20 year old dimmer and
they dim perfectly.

Good for you but mine didn't and most don't they why the now sell
trailing edge dimmers.

Did the LEDs say they could be dimmed in the spec? On the packaging?

Yes dimmable LEDs 2 in a pack (DAIL) for £8 down from £12 that's why I
brought them and they work very well with my trailing edge dimmer,
unlike my previous dimmer which didn't dim them very well but made them
flicker.

Now what are your LEDs that work on your dimmer.

I've dimmed LEDs using a 555, but obviously not using 'mains' voltages'
but standard red LEDs that work at about 2.2V 20ma or so.
Using a 555 to change the pulse width .
I've done this with arduinos too which use PWM of at about 500Hz

Gawd! Never mind the "apples and oranges" comparison! This is more like
an apples and beef steak comparison! :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On 01/11/2016 17:14, charles wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 01/11/2016 15:54, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:27:10 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 14:07:55 UTC, wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 13:22:04 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them
as kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?

FWIW you used to able to buy those. They had a filament lamp in
series with the mercury all in one envelope. Mad idea.

Well that explains why Dave Plowman has them, any idea what the
filiment was made of and can they be dimmed ?

Why ask a question about something you appear to be an expert in?

I don;t know anything about those with a filiment lamp in series with
the mercury one. Whe I moved in in 1988 ther was one 5ft florescent
tube.

florescent tubes are mercury lamps and have filaments.

so do fluorescent ones


Shh!, I copied the spelling from dave so as not to confuse him any more
than he is.

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 14:53:40 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 14:07:55 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 13:22:04 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them as kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?

FWIW you used to able to buy those. They had a filament lamp in series with the mercury all in one envelope. Mad idea.

Well that explains why Dave Plowman has them, any idea what the filiment was made of and can they be dimmed ?

Obviously the filament was tungsten. No, you can't dim old school discharge lamps on basic ballasts.


NT

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:06:56 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
BTW, have two mains LEDs here running off a 20 year old dimmer and
they dim perfectly.

Good for you but mine didn't and most don't they why the now sell
trailong edge dimmers.

Did the LEDs say they could be dimmed in the spec? On the packaging?

Yes dimmable LEDs 2 in a pack (DAIL) for �8 down from �12 that's why I
brought them and they work very well with my trailing edge dimmer,
unlike my previous dimmer which didn't dim them very well but made them
flicker.

You said they blew up the dimmer?

Now what are yuo LEDs that work on your diimmer.

They came from ASDA. Say dimmable on the packaging. The dimmer in question
is one which fits the older MK grid switch system. Possibly made by Home
Automation. Bought somewhere round about 1990.

I've dimmed LEDs using a 555, but obviously not using 'mains' voltages'
but standard red LEDs that work at about 2.2V 20ma or so.
Using a 555 to change the pulse width .
I've done this with arduinos too which use PWM of at about 500Hz

You can dim DC LEDs with a simple pot.

So can you explain to me how you dim LEDs.

Using suitable LEDs and a suitable dimmer. What else?

It's been extensively covered on here (when it was a DIY group) that non
dimmable mains LEDS can't be dimmed. And that only some types of dimmers
work with those that can be dimmed. So why try an re-invent the wheel?

You're mostly quite right, but nondimmable mains LEDs definitely can be dimmed. Switch in a series cap and Robert's related.


NT

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:38:44 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:06:56 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You can dim DC LEDs with a simple pot.

Not very well.
What are DC LEDs ?
Yoiu don;t need a pot just a varible resistance will do.

Helpful hint: when you've barely a clue what you're talking about, don't pretend to be an expert.


NT

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 17:06:30 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2016 07:07:53 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 13:22:04 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

Now your point about mercury lamps was what that yuo can buy them as
kitchen lighting to replace tungston or LEDs was it ?

FWIW you used to able to buy those. They had a filament lamp in series
with the mercury all in one envelope. Mad idea.

MBT lamps. Not entirely mad else they would never have made it to market.

A mad bodge, their upside was that they could be installed by people who CBA to upgrade to real mercury lamps. The downside was the much poorer efficacy - and efficacy was the sole reason to fit mercury in the first place.

And to make matters worse, they had short lifetimes due to the filament. In short, a brainless bodge.

Yes, they sold, though I don't know if they were ever popular. There are always people around who will buy ill considered stupid products.


NT

On 02/11/16 03:04, wrote:
You're mostly quite right, but nondimmable mains LEDs definitely can
be dimmed. Switch in a series cap and Robert's related.

WEll...not necessarily. Its all down to exactly how the LED *bulb
assembly* handles dropping the volts to the LED bulb. If they use some
sort of switched mode PSU., that wont really dim, unless its designed to
sense the input voltage and adjust itself.

Simple current limiting capacitors - well of course they will
work...except a series capacitor fed from a chopped triac waveform is
likely to do very nasty things to LED peak current.

Ok we might use an inductor instead, but those don't play nice with
simple triac dimmers.

Its not as simple as you think. Triac dimmers work because the load is
simple and resistive, and LED bulbs are neither. All bets are off.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 02/11/16 03:16, wrote:
A mad bodge, their upside was that they could be installed by people
who CBA to upgrade to real mercury lamps. The downside was the much
poorer efficacy - and efficacy was the sole reason to fit mercury in
the first place.


ITYM efficiency....


And to make matters worse, they had short lifetimes due to the
filament. In short, a brainless bodge.

Yes, they sold, though I don't know if they were ever popular. There
are always people around who will buy ill considered stupid
products.

Especially if they get feed in tariffs to make them worthwhile, eh
harry? ;-)


--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:57:15 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
You said they blew up the dimmer?

I used the word blow up to describe the dimmer not working properly
after fitting two LEDs to the 4 way unit the other two were whatever you
wish to call them onm this day at this hour take yuor pick.

Are you now saying the dimmer was actually ok if you went back to tungsten?

How many times do I have to repeat this noi more is the anser go back and read what I wrote originaly.

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 17:10:36 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/11/2016 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:57:15 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
You can dim DC LEDs with a simple pot.

Not very well.
What are DC LEDs ?

Thought even you knew all LEDs were basically DC devices.

I do so tend not to call them DC devices never seen them advertised or sold as such either.

Light Emitting DIODE should give it away.

Maybe you should talk about LED lamps as they can be DC/AC or either.

LEDs are dirrfernt from LED lamps hence the description
LED is light emiting diode and that's it.
LEDs are DC what yuo put them in can be DC or AC.

In article ,
wrote:
It's been extensively covered on here (when it was a DIY group) that
non dimmable mains LEDS can't be dimmed. And that only some types of
dimmers work with those that can be dimmed. So why try an re-invent
the wheel?

You're mostly quite right, but nondimmable mains LEDs definitely can be
dimmed. Switch in a series cap and Robert's related.

But that doesn't dim it as regards what most mean by a dimmer. Variable
from near zero to near full. And even worse for our Dave who doesn't feel
competent at component level.

It's what I disliked from the start of these energy saving bulbs. I like
to be able to adjust the light level for what I want. And never have
really found the costs of running lighting a deal breaker.

Now dimmable LEDs have arrived at a sensible price, I'm more inclined to
use them. Where I'm not too worried about light quality.

--
*When blondes have more fun, do they know it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:57:15 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
You said they blew up the dimmer?

I used the word blow up to describe the dimmer not working properly
after fitting two LEDs to the 4 way unit the other two were whatever
you wish to call them onm this day at this hour take yuor pick.

Are you now saying the dimmer was actually ok if you went back to
tungsten?

How many times do I have to repeat this noi more is the anser go back
and read what I wrote originaly.


Very odd, as fitting non dimming LEDS to a dimmer circuit doesn't usually
result in damage to the dimmer. Or rather not when I've tried it. But
don't know about pound shop dimmers. Or pound shop LEDs.

--
*Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 2 November 2016 11:14:50 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
It's been extensively covered on here (when it was a DIY group) that
non dimmable mains LEDS can't be dimmed. And that only some types of
dimmers work with those that can be dimmed. So why try an re-invent
the wheel?

You're mostly quite right, but nondimmable mains LEDs definitely can be
dimmed. Switch in a series cap and Robert's related.

But that doesn't dim it as regards what most mean by a dimmer. Variable
from near zero to near full. And even worse for our Dave who doesn't feel
competent at component level.

I'm far more compendent than you at componet level, I would trplace a triac with the same tyoe if it kept blowing as you appear to do every time a bulb blows who in theier right mind would want to replace a triac everytime a bulb blows ?


It's what I disliked from the start of these energy saving bulbs. I like
to be able to adjust the light level for what I want. And never have
really found the costs of running lighting a deal breaker.

Depends what yuop mean by deal breaker, but most people use electric lighting
so the overall saving coupld be significant for a country.


Now dimmable LEDs have arrived at a sensible price,

LEDs have always been dimmable since they first arrived but NOT made dimmable when put in home lighting systems of 230V AC.

I'm more inclined to
use them. Where I'm not too worried about light quality.

Me too hence my kitchen and I don't see a problem with the light quality
for the majority of applications in which they are used.
But if you are fussy then it seems art galleries a photo studios might be the place to get advice.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 2 November 2016 11:14:50 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
It's been extensively covered on here (when it was a DIY group) that
non dimmable mains LEDS can't be dimmed. And that only some types of
dimmers work with those that can be dimmed. So why try an re-invent
the wheel?

You're mostly quite right, but nondimmable mains LEDs definitely can be
dimmed. Switch in a series cap and Robert's related.

But that doesn't dim it as regards what most mean by a dimmer. Variable
from near zero to near full. And even worse for our Dave who doesn't feel
competent at component level.

I'm far more compendent than you at componet level, I would trplace a
triac with the same tyoe if it kept blowing as you appear to do every time
a bulb blows who in theier right mind would want to replace a triac
everytime a bulb blows ?

Calm down, dear.
Here's a tip, before you hit return, have an ickle read of what you typed.

On 02/11/2016 03:09, wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:38:44 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:06:56 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You can dim DC LEDs with a simple pot.

Not very well.
What are DC LEDs ?
Yoiu don;t need a pot just a varible resistance will do.

Helpful hint: when you've barely a clue what you're talking about, don't pretend to be an expert.


NT


He is supposed to teach this sort of stuff, it explains why ARW's
apprentii are so bad if teaching is done by teachers at this level.

On Wednesday, 2 November 2016 12:49:57 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/11/2016 03:09, wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:38:44 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:06:56 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You can dim DC LEDs with a simple pot.

Not very well.
What are DC LEDs ?
Yoiu don;t need a pot just a varible resistance will do.

Helpful hint: when you've barely a clue what you're talking about, don't pretend to be an expert.


NT


He is supposed to teach this sort of stuff,

I DO NOT teach this sort of stuff.

it explains why ARW's
apprentii are so bad if teaching is done by teachers at this level.

You can't even get that right.
http://www.businesswritingblog.com/b...-apprenti.html



Then why not ask ARW apprentices (NOT apprentii) whether they have degrees from the university of London, if they don't maybe that explains it.

I knnow far more about it than either of yuo , LEDs are essentail current drawn devices NOT voltage.
Only as complte idiot would think a potentiometer is the correct way to dim a LED

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 November 2016 12:49:57 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/11/2016 03:09, wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:38:44 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:06:56 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You can dim DC LEDs with a simple pot.

Not very well. What are DC LEDs ? Yoiu don;t need a pot just a
varible resistance will do.

Helpful hint: when you've barely a clue what you're talking about,
don't pretend to be an expert.


NT


He is supposed to teach this sort of stuff,

I DO NOT teach this sort of stuff.

it explains why ARW's apprentii are so bad if teaching is done by
teachers at this level.

You can't even get that right.
http://www.businesswritingblog.com/b...-apprenti.html



Then why not ask ARW apprentices (NOT apprentii) whether they have
degrees from the university of London, if they don't maybe that explains
it.

I knnow far more about it than either of yuo , LEDs are essentail current
drawn devices NOT voltage. Only as complte idiot would think a
potentiometer is the correct way to dim a LED

with a fixed voltage supply, increasing the resistance in a circuit should
lower the current. I think someone called Georg Ohm came up with that idea

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 02/11/2016 13:05, whisky-dave wrote:


I knnow far more about it than either of yuo , LEDs are essentail current drawn devices NOT voltage.
Only as complte idiot would think a potentiometer is the correct way to dim a LED

I don't think you know what a pot does.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 November 2016 11:14:50 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
It's been extensively covered on here (when it was a DIY group)
that non dimmable mains LEDS can't be dimmed. And that only some
types of dimmers work with those that can be dimmed. So why try an
re-invent the wheel?

You're mostly quite right, but nondimmable mains LEDs definitely can
be dimmed. Switch in a series cap and Robert's related.

But that doesn't dim it as regards what most mean by a dimmer.
Variable from near zero to near full. And even worse for our Dave who
doesn't feel competent at component level.

I'm far more compendent than you at componet level, I would trplace a
triac with the same tyoe if it kept blowing as you appear to do every
time a bulb blows who in theier right mind would want to replace a triac
everytime a bulb blows ?

Are you sure about that? It seemed to be a surprise to you that an LED was
in fact a diode. Or was it that you don't know what a diode is?


It's what I disliked from the start of these energy saving bulbs. I
like to be able to adjust the light level for what I want. And never
have really found the costs of running lighting a deal breaker.

Depends what yuop mean by deal breaker, but most people use electric
lighting so the overall saving coupld be significant for a country.

I'll do that by switching off when not needed. If the 'country' wants to
save energy, it can make a start by not having lights on 24/7 in offices,
etc. And until I find 'low energy' types which suit my needs perfectly,
I'll stick to what suits me.

Now dimmable LEDs have arrived at a sensible price,

LEDs have always been dimmable since they first arrived but NOT made
dimmable when put in home lighting systems of 230V AC.

You seem to have done a remarkable about face. You now seem to want to be
specific about LED types.

I'm more inclined to
use them. Where I'm not too worried about light quality.

Me too hence my kitchen and I don't see a problem with the light quality
for the majority of applications in which they are used. But if you are
fussy then it seems art galleries a photo studios might be the place to
get advice.

No - I advise them.


--
*A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 2 November 2016 13:22:59 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/11/2016 13:05, whisky-dave wrote:


I knnow far more about it than either of yuo , LEDs are essentail current drawn devices NOT voltage.
Only as complte idiot would think a potentiometer is the correct way to dim a LED

I don't think you know what a pot does.

I do.

On Wednesday, 2 November 2016 13:51:46 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 15:57:15 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
You said they blew up the dimmer?

I used the word blow up to describe the dimmer not working properly
after fitting two LEDs to the 4 way unit the other two were whatever
you wish to call them onm this day at this hour take yuor pick.

Are you now saying the dimmer was actually ok if you went back to
tungsten?

How many times do I have to repeat this noi more is the anser go back
and read what I wrote originaly.


Very odd, as fitting non dimming LEDS to a dimmer circuit doesn't usually
result in damage to the dimmer.

I agree and I didn't think tunsten bulbs that blow took at the traic either.


Or rather not when I've tried it. But
don't know about pound shop dimmers. Or pound shop LEDs.

me niether and as I've said and assume yuo read because you replied asking whether or not I buy iPhones from B&Q I brought the items in B&Q this is obvioulsy getting very complex for you to understand.
Luckily I didnl;t start from the very beginning which was 2 years earlier.



--
*Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
I knnow far more about it than either of yuo , LEDs are essentail
current drawn devices NOT voltage.

You should learn to cut and paste when you Google something.

'Essentially current driven devices' is probably what you found.


Only as complte idiot would think a
potentiometer is the correct way to dim a LED

For a low current LED it's perfectly satisfactory. Just the same principle
as using a fixed series resistor to set the current. Surely even you know
about that?

--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 2 November 2016 14:11:57 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 November 2016 11:14:50 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
It's been extensively covered on here (when it was a DIY group)
that non dimmable mains LEDS can't be dimmed. And that only some
types of dimmers work with those that can be dimmed. So why try an
re-invent the wheel?

You're mostly quite right, but nondimmable mains LEDs definitely can
be dimmed. Switch in a series cap and Robert's related.

But that doesn't dim it as regards what most mean by a dimmer.
Variable from near zero to near full. And even worse for our Dave who
doesn't feel competent at component level.

I'm far more compendent than you at componet level, I would trplace a
triac with the same tyoe if it kept blowing as you appear to do every
time a bulb blows who in theier right mind would want to replace a triac
everytime a bulb blows ?

Are you sure about that? It seemed to be a surprise to you that an LED was
in fact a diode. Or was it that you don't know what a diode is?

I see you got that idea out of the same arsehole all your ideas come from.
Unless of course you can show where yuo got that idea from.



It's what I disliked from the start of these energy saving bulbs. I
like to be able to adjust the light level for what I want. And never
have really found the costs of running lighting a deal breaker.

Depends what yuop mean by deal breaker, but most people use electric
lighting so the overall saving coupld be significant for a country.

I'll do that by switching off when not needed.

Most peole need lighting especailly as it gets dark.


If the 'country' wants to
save energy, it can make a start by not having lights on 24/7 in offices,
etc.

I agree I;ve complained about what we call energy effciency here, they won;t install LED tubes in teh lab but have put them outside on the roof leaving them on all day and night around a bloody roof. !

And until I find 'low energy' types which suit my needs perfectly,
I'll stick to what suits me.

Same with me that's why I didn't go over to LEDs until relatively recently.




Now dimmable LEDs have arrived at a sensible price,

LEDs have always been dimmable since they first arrived but NOT made
dimmable when put in home lighting systems of 230V AC.

You seem to have done a remarkable about face. You now seem to want to be
specific about LED types.

Because I know what I'm talking about, I buy LEDs by the thousand. I've been buying them for years and using them. I print the basic specs out for teh students (of the ones I buy).




I'm more inclined to
use them. Where I'm not too worried about light quality.

Me too hence my kitchen and I don't see a problem with the light quality
for the majority of applications in which they are used. But if you are
fussy then it seems art galleries a photo studios might be the place to
get advice.

No - I advise them.

Yeah sure you do. Care to give any examples.