Does anyone have any idea if an LED bulb will work in a dawn till dusk lantern?

Light is off during the day. Light lights at about 1/3 brightness at dusk and stays that way unless triggered by the motion sensor at which point it is fully lit.
Googled this to death and cannot find an answer. Contacted numerous led bulb shops via email but all seam to forget to read the question and point me to an led that is obviously useless for the situation.

In article ,
wrote:
Does anyone have any idea if an LED bulb will work in a dawn till dusk
lantern?

Light is off during the day. Light lights at about 1/3 brightness at
dusk and stays that way unless triggered by the motion sensor at which
point it is fully lit. Googled this to death and cannot find an answer.
Contacted numerous led bulb shops via email but all seam to forget to
read the question and point me to an led that is obviously useless for
the situation.

Impossible to say without knowing how the existing lamp dims. There are
LEDs which dim with a standard (trailing edge) mains dimmer these days.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Maybe the answer is something as simple as two bulbs, on when its dark, the
dimmer of the two, the other more like a flood is triggered by the pir?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
Does anyone have any idea if an LED bulb will work in a dawn till dusk
lantern?

Light is off during the day. Light lights at about 1/3 brightness at
dusk and stays that way unless triggered by the motion sensor at which
point it is fully lit. Googled this to death and cannot find an answer.
Contacted numerous led bulb shops via email but all seam to forget to
read the question and point me to an led that is obviously useless for
the situation.

Impossible to say without knowing how the existing lamp dims. There are
LEDs which dim with a standard (trailing edge) mains dimmer these days.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote in message
...
Does anyone have any idea if an LED bulb will work in a dawn till dusk
lantern?

Light is off during the day. Light lights at about 1/3 brightness at dusk
and stays that way unless triggered by the motion sensor at which point it
is fully lit.
Googled this to death and cannot find an answer. Contacted numerous led
bulb shops via email but all seam to forget to read the question and point
me to an led that is obviously useless for the situation.

I'd be interested in this also. Mine takes 60W ES.
I know it dims using a FET but that's all I know.

bm wrote:
I know it dims using a FET but that's all I know.

Are you sure? very strange to use an FET in an AC power circuit.

On 26/10/2016 14:41, wrote:
Does anyone have any idea if an LED bulb will work in a dawn till dusk lantern?

A truly dimmable one ought to, but a bog standard one will not.

The bog standard ones will draw ever more current to deliver near
constant light output when you try to dim them until something breaks.

Light is off during the day. Light lights at about 1/3 brightness at dusk and
stays that way unless triggered by the motion sensor at which point
it is fully lit.
Googled this to death and cannot find an answer. Contacted numerous led bulb shops
via email but all seam to forget to read the question and point me to
an led that
is obviously useless for the situation.



--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
I know it dims using a FET but that's all I know.

Are you sure? very strange to use an FET in an AC power circuit.

I should correct that, Bob. MINE uses a FET
Leastways, that's what I replace every time the bulb kills it.
IRF 840

bm wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
I know it dims using a FET but that's all I know.

Are you sure? very strange to use an FET in an AC power circuit.

I should correct that, Bob. MINE uses a FET
Leastways, that's what I replace every time the bulb kills it.
IRF 840



OK fairy-nuff
Bob

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
I know it dims using a FET but that's all I know.

Are you sure? very strange to use an FET in an AC power circuit.

I should correct that, Bob. MINE uses a FET
Leastways, that's what I replace every time the bulb kills it.
IRF 840



OK fairy-nuff
Bob

Acherley, when it finally goes tits up, I can't see a replacement.
It activates between dusk and dawn at variable settable brightness and comes
on full tilt via PIR for a settable time.
Got it from B&Q ~8 years back, can't see one now.

On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 14:41:03 UTC+1, wrote:
Does anyone have any idea if an LED bulb will work in a dawn till dusk lantern?

Light is off during the day. Light lights at about 1/3 brightness at dusk and stays that way unless triggered by the motion sensor at which point it is fully lit.
Googled this to death and cannot find an answer. Contacted numerous led bulb shops via email but all seam to forget to read the question and point me to an led that is obviously useless for the situation.

depends on the LED's PSU type, the dimming method and the PIR.


NT

wrote in
:

On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 14:41:03 UTC+1,
wrote:
Does anyone have any idea if an LED bulb will work in a dawn till
dusk lantern?

Light is off during the day. Light lights at about 1/3 brightness at
dusk and stays that way unless triggered by the motion sensor at
which point it is fully lit. Googled this to death and cannot find an
answer. Contacted numerous led bulb shops via email but all seam to
forget to read the question and point me to an led that is obviously
useless for the situation.

depends on the LED's PSU type, the dimming method and the PIR.


NT


I would give up - it is an oddity that never made it to mass market.
Unfortunately I can only suggest you replace it with 2 fittings - a Dusk to
Dawn lamp and a PIR Flood.

DerbyBorn wrote:

I would give up - it is an oddity that never made it to mass market.

Not that odd, I bought a combined PIR/dusk sensor from screwfix about
ten years ago, IIRC it specified incandescent lamp only for the
dusk-to-dawn output which I presumed was half-wave rectified while the
PIR output was full mains ... anyway UV weakened the plastic lens and
water got in and killed it.

bm wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
I know it dims using a FET but that's all I know.

Are you sure? very strange to use an FET in an AC power circuit.

I should correct that, Bob. MINE uses a FET
Leastways, that's what I replace every time the bulb kills it.
IRF 840



OK fairy-nuff
Bob

Acherley, when it finally goes tits up, I can't see a replacement.
It activates between dusk and dawn at variable settable brightness and comes
on full tilt via PIR for a settable time.
Got it from B&Q ~8 years back, can't see one now.


Interesting. Can the light sensor "see" the bulb output as well as
ambient light? If so it could be a simple cct to maintain a preset light
level at the sensor and a PIR to override to max lumens.
Might be worth tracing it out whilst it is still working to clone it
when the time comes.

Having thought more about the FET control element, the whole control
circuit could connected across a bridge rectifier to make it full wave
control for AC use. I guess I've become used to seeing triacs in that
sort of role. I wonder why it is killing fets from time to time? is it
when the lamp fails or at other times? - Inrush current issues?

Bob

On Thursday, 27 October 2016 09:44:20 UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in
:

On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 14:41:03 UTC+1,
wrote:
Does anyone have any idea if an LED bulb will work in a dawn till
dusk lantern?

Light is off during the day. Light lights at about 1/3 brightness at
dusk and stays that way unless triggered by the motion sensor at
which point it is fully lit. Googled this to death and cannot find an
answer. Contacted numerous led bulb shops via email but all seam to
forget to read the question and point me to an led that is obviously
useless for the situation.

depends on the LED's PSU type, the dimming method and the PIR.

I would give up - it is an oddity that never made it to mass market.
Unfortunately I can only suggest you replace it with 2 fittings - a Dusk to
Dawn lamp and a PIR Flood.

There are other ways too.


NT

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
I know it dims using a FET but that's all I know.

Are you sure? very strange to use an FET in an AC power circuit.

I should correct that, Bob. MINE uses a FET
Leastways, that's what I replace every time the bulb kills it.
IRF 840



OK fairy-nuff
Bob

Acherley, when it finally goes tits up, I can't see a replacement.
It activates between dusk and dawn at variable settable brightness and
comes
on full tilt via PIR for a settable time.
Got it from B&Q ~8 years back, can't see one now.


Interesting. Can the light sensor "see" the bulb output as well as
ambient light? If so it could be a simple cct to maintain a preset light
level at the sensor and a PIR to override to max lumens.
Might be worth tracing it out whilst it is still working to clone it when
the time comes.

Having thought more about the FET control element, the whole control
circuit could connected across a bridge rectifier to make it full wave
control for AC use. I guess I've become used to seeing triacs in that sort
of role. I wonder why it is killing fets from time to time? is it when the
lamp fails or at other times? - Inrush current issues?

Hmmm, I think the sensor can only see ambient.
It only kills FETs when the lamp fails, I always seem to get bulbs which
must happen to go short when they die.
Invariably, when a bulb goes (anywhere) the CU trips, if it was on a dimmer,
the dimmer always gets screwed too

On 27/10/16 12:28, Bob Minchin wrote:
I wonder why it is killing fets from time to time? is it when the lamp
fails or at other times? - Inrush current issues?

FETS are remarkably resilient. But mains voltage spikes might be an
potential killer.

Or sheer heat.

However semicondictors do age, and the hotter they are the faster they age

http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconduct...ansistor-aging

You do need a basic understanding of the quantum mature of transistors
to understand WHY they age though ;-)


--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 18:24:23 UTC+1, bm wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
I know it dims using a FET but that's all I know.

Are you sure? very strange to use an FET in an AC power circuit.

I should correct that, Bob. MINE uses a FET
Leastways, that's what I replace every time the bulb kills it.
IRF 840

That's what I couldn't understand when DP said when my dimmer blew I should replace the traics as a DIY job, but if I did they'd blow again within 5 mins of turning the lights back on again, I even said I didn;t want to get in to a casuality loop.
SO I decided to buy a new dimmer of the correct type to dim LEDs rather than keep repairing the one that doesnlt work.
Aslso LEDs really only work on DC.

On Thursday, 27 October 2016 12:56:40 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/10/16 12:28, Bob Minchin wrote:
I wonder why it is killing fets from time to time? is it when the lamp
fails or at other times? - Inrush current issues?

FETS are remarkably resilient. But mains voltage spikes might be an
potential killer.

Or sheer heat.

However semicondictors do age, and the hotter they are the faster they age

On tuesday we had a BBC computers PSU start to smoke, a lovely plume of grey smoke, you just don't see that sort of thing very often in teaching labs anymore.


http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconduct...ansistor-aging

You do need a basic understanding of the quantum mature of transistors
to understand WHY they age though ;-)

No they're wrong BREXIT caused it.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 18:24:23 UTC+1, bm wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
I know it dims using a FET but that's all I know.

Are you sure? very strange to use an FET in an AC power circuit.

I should correct that, Bob. MINE uses a FET
Leastways, that's what I replace every time the bulb kills it.
IRF 840

That's what I couldn't understand when DP said when my dimmer blew I
should replace the traics as a DIY job, but if I did they'd blow again
within 5 mins of turning the lights back on again, I even said I didn;t
want to get in to a casuality loop. SO I decided to buy a new dimmer of
the correct type to dim LEDs rather than keep repairing the one that
doesnlt work. Aslso LEDs really only work on DC.

As usual you've made half of that lot up.

I actually said that it's quite common for a dimmer to fail when a
tungsten bulb blows. They short circuit momentarily. And even if the MCB
trips, the dimmer can be toast.
Hence replacing the triac. No reason at all that triac will fail in 5
minutes unless another bulb blows. And not every bulb will fail in this
way anyway.

--
*After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 27 October 2016 16:22:47 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 18:24:23 UTC+1, bm wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
I know it dims using a FET but that's all I know.

Are you sure? very strange to use an FET in an AC power circuit.

I should correct that, Bob. MINE uses a FET
Leastways, that's what I replace every time the bulb kills it.
IRF 840

That's what I couldn't understand when DP said when my dimmer blew I
should replace the traics as a DIY job, but if I did they'd blow again
within 5 mins of turning the lights back on again, I even said I didn;t
want to get in to a casuality loop. SO I decided to buy a new dimmer of
the correct type to dim LEDs rather than keep repairing the one that
doesnlt work. Aslso LEDs really only work on DC.

As usual you've made half of that lot up.

No I haven;t, you just didn't understand the situation as usual.




I actually said that it's quite common for a dimmer to fail when a
tungsten bulb blows.

WTF !
Mine blew when I replaced two halgen bulbs with 2 LED versions, well didn;t blow so much as not work, flicker and not reach full brightness.

They short circuit momentarily. And even if the MCB
trips, the dimmer can be toast.

Mine did seem warmer after 5 mins that it did in the previous few years.

Hence replacing the triac. No reason at all that triac will fail in 5
minutes unless another bulb blows. And not every bulb will fail in this
way anyway.

You forgot the situtaion it blew because of the LEDs, it was workign perfectly well with 3 (35W) of the 4 with working halogens. dimmed no problem and had been working for a few days. When I decided to go LED's it was because I saw an offer in B&Q dimmable LEDS previously £12 now £8 (for two) dail was the 'make'.
So I had 2 LED and 2 halogen then tried to dim them didn't work too well half brigtness and a bit of flickering, I wasn;t impressed, so removed the LEDs and replaced went back to 3 working halogen which dimmed OK.
I then decided that maybe it was my 0-400w rated dimmer not working at low wattages, so I replaced my dimmer with an older brass effect one rated 0-250W
Tried it in fact it was a little worse and seemed to get warmer to the touch with in a few mins. When I removed the dimmer from the wall it didnl;t smell right that acrid smell you get from burnt things was noticable.
So I binned that dimmer, put my previous dimmer back in with the 3 halogens..
Then ordered a dimmer suitable for LEDs.
I tried that with 2 Halgens and 2 LEDs worked very well, so I went and brought another 2 LEDs while they were still on offer, put themn in and worked well as expected the only downside was a delay in teh on time of about 1.5 seconds from switch on.
I do NOT have MCBs I have old style fuses 5 amp lighting circuit which did not blow.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
That's what I couldn't understand when DP said when my dimmer blew I
should replace the traics as a DIY job, but if I did they'd blow
again within 5 mins of turning the lights back on again, I even said
I didn;t want to get in to a casuality loop. SO I decided to buy a
new dimmer of the correct type to dim LEDs rather than keep
repairing the one that doesnlt work. Aslso LEDs really only work on
DC.

As usual you've made half of that lot up.

No I haven;t, you just didn't understand the situation as usual.

I've understood perfectly well.




I actually said that it's quite common for a dimmer to fail when a
tungsten bulb blows.

WTF !
Mine blew when I replaced two halgen bulbs with 2 LED versions, well didn;t blow so much as not work, flicker and not reach full brightness.

So likely nothing wrong with the dimmer. Thought everyone knew not all
mains LEDs can be dimmed.

They short circuit momentarily. And even if the MCB
trips, the dimmer can be toast.

Mine did seem warmer after 5 mins that it did in the previous few years.

Hence replacing the triac. No reason at all that triac will fail in 5
minutes unless another bulb blows. And not every bulb will fail in this
way anyway.

You forgot the situtaion it blew because of the LEDs, it was workign
perfectly well with 3 (35W) of the 4 with working halogens. dimmed no
problem and had been working for a few days. When I decided to go LED's
it was because I saw an offer in B&Q dimmable LEDS previously £12 now £8
(for two) dail was the 'make'. So I had 2 LED and 2 halogen then tried
to dim them didn't work too well half brigtness and a bit of flickering,
I wasn;t impressed, so removed the LEDs and replaced went back to 3
working halogen which dimmed OK. I then decided that maybe it was my
0-400w rated dimmer not working at low wattages, so I replaced my dimmer
with an older brass effect one rated 0-250W Tried it in fact it was a
little worse and seemed to get warmer to the touch with in a few mins.
When I removed the dimmer from the wall it didnl;t smell right that
acrid smell you get from burnt things was noticable. So I binned that
dimmer, put my previous dimmer back in with the 3 halogens. Then ordered
a dimmer suitable for LEDs. I tried that with 2 Halgens and 2 LEDs
worked very well, so I went and brought another 2 LEDs while they were
still on offer, put themn in and worked well as expected the only
downside was a delay in teh on time of about 1.5 seconds from switch on.

Good grief.

I do NOT have MCBs I have old style fuses 5 amp lighting circuit which
did not blow.

And they take even longer to cut off the supply than an MCB. Not that it
makes any difference when a tungsten bulb shorts with a dimmer in circuit.

--
*I stayed up all night to see where the sun went. Then it dawned on me.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 08:44:18 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

wrote in
:

On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 14:41:03 UTC+1,
wrote:
Does anyone have any idea if an LED bulb will work in a dawn till
dusk lantern?

Light is off during the day. Light lights at about 1/3 brightness at
dusk and stays that way unless triggered by the motion sensor at
which point it is fully lit. Googled this to death and cannot find an
answer. Contacted numerous led bulb shops via email but all seam to
forget to read the question and point me to an led that is obviously
useless for the situation.

depends on the LED's PSU type, the dimming method and the PIR.

NT


I would give up - it is an oddity that never made it to mass market.
Unfortunately I can only suggest you replace it with 2 fittings - a Dusk to
Dawn lamp and a PIR Flood.

Don't know if this would work with a dimmer: use a dimmable LED set on a
dimmer to the level you want. Use the PIR to bypass the dimmer, i.e. the
PIR, when on, puts full voltage onto the output of the dimmer.
If this would kill the dimmer it could be an expensive experiment.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 27/10/2016 13:11, whisky-dave wrote:
No they're wrong BREXIT caused it.

You sure it wasn't Thatcher?

Andy

On Thursday, 27 October 2016 17:12:21 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
That's what I couldn't understand when DP said when my dimmer blew I
should replace the traics as a DIY job, but if I did they'd blow
again within 5 mins of turning the lights back on again, I even said
I didn;t want to get in to a casuality loop. SO I decided to buy a
new dimmer of the correct type to dim LEDs rather than keep
repairing the one that doesnlt work. Aslso LEDs really only work on
DC.

As usual you've made half of that lot up.

No I haven;t, you just didn't understand the situation as usual.

I've understood perfectly well.

Then you got it plain wrong then.


I actually said that it's quite common for a dimmer to fail when a
tungsten bulb blows.

WTF !
Mine blew when I replaced two halgen bulbs with 2 LED versions, well didn;t blow so much as not work, flicker and not reach full brightness.

So likely nothing wrong with the dimmer. Thought everyone knew not all
mains LEDs can be dimmed.

So why didn't the dimmer dim the ghalagen bulbs when the LEDs were removed ?



worked very well, so I went and brought another 2 LEDs while they were
still on offer, put themn in and worked well as expected the only
downside was a delay in teh on time of about 1.5 seconds from switch on.

Good grief.

I do NOT have MCBs I have old style fuses 5 amp lighting circuit which
did not blow.

And they take even longer to cut off the supply than an MCB.

So what.

Not that it
makes any difference when a tungsten bulb shorts with a dimmer in circuit.

WHat has that got to do with it.

I have NEVER had tungstun bulbs in nthe kithcen, whenb I moved in in 1987
there was a florescent light, which I replaced with a 4 way halegon.
As teh halagens died I replaced them with LEDs.

Why are yuo goign on about tungsten bulbs and MCBs when I have nieher. ?

On Monday, 31 October 2016 10:26:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I have NEVER had tungstun bulbs in nthe kithcen, whenb I moved in in 1987
there was a florescent light, which I replaced with a 4 way halegon.
As teh halagens died I replaced them with LEDs.

Halogens are tungsten lamps, but never let facts get in the way eh.

On Monday, 31 October 2016 11:07:17 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 10:26:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I have NEVER had tungstun bulbs in nthe kithcen, whenb I moved in in 1987
there was a florescent light, which I replaced with a 4 way halegon.
As teh halagens died I replaced them with LEDs.

Halogens are tungsten lamps, but never let facts get in the way eh.

Halogens are differnt from standard tungsten lamps did you note know that's why they are reffered to differntly.
And as you seem to misss the facts the Halogen tungsten lamps did NOT blow the dimmer as the dimmer was working perfectly well with 4 lamps then 3 lamps then with 2 lamps then I tried fitting dimmable LEDs that's when the dimmer went failty not for the 2 weeks or so I was using just 2 working Halogen lamps on the circuit.

Where as yuo would have said teh Halogens were at fault I concluded it was teh LED's or rathe rthe dommer couldn;t dim , dimmable LED's

On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:07:23 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 11:07:17 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 10:26:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I have NEVER had tungstun bulbs in nthe kithcen, whenb I moved in in 1987
there was a florescent light, which I replaced with a 4 way halegon.
As teh halagens died I replaced them with LEDs.

Halogens are tungsten lamps, but never let facts get in the way eh.

Halogens are differnt from standard tungsten lamps

obviously. They're still tungstens of course.

did you note know that's why they are reffered to differntly.

bit childish

And as you seem to misss the facts the Halogen tungsten lamps did NOT blow the dimmer

no basis for that at all. And of no relevance.

as the dimmer was working perfectly well with 4 lamps then 3 lamps then with 2 lamps then I tried fitting dimmable LEDs that's when the dimmer went failty not for the 2 weeks or so I was using just 2 working Halogen lamps on the circuit.

Where as yuo would have said teh Halogens were at fault I concluded it was teh LED's or rathe rthe dommer couldn;t dim , dimmable LED's

I didn't comment on that at all, but feel free to keep making it up.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
No I haven;t, you just didn't understand the situation as usual.

I've understood perfectly well.

Then you got it plain wrong then.


I actually said that it's quite common for a dimmer to fail when a
tungsten bulb blows.

WTF ! Mine blew when I replaced two halgen bulbs with 2 LED
versions, well didn;t blow so much as not work, flicker and not
reach full brightness.

So likely nothing wrong with the dimmer. Thought everyone knew not all
mains LEDs can be dimmed.

So why didn't the dimmer dim the ghalagen bulbs when the LEDs were
removed ?

Because you broke it through your stupidity?

Never mind. It's an easy job to fix a dimmer. Oh - forgot. You can't
solder.

--
*I used to be a banker, but then I lost interest.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:23:36 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:07:23 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 11:07:17 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 10:26:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I have NEVER had tungstun bulbs in nthe kithcen, whenb I moved in in 1987
there was a florescent light, which I replaced with a 4 way halegon.
As teh halagens died I replaced them with LEDs.

Halogens are tungsten lamps, but never let facts get in the way eh.

Halogens are differnt from standard tungsten lamps

obviously. They're still tungstens of course.

And both made of glass and metal too.
So what made the glass bulbs blow.


did you note know that's why they are reffered to differntly.

bit childish

Not as childish not being able to tell one bulb from another.
In electronics and even most DIY specifics are important.


And as you seem to misss the facts the Halogen tungsten lamps did NOT blow the dimmer

no basis for that at all. And of no relevance.

Plenty of basics for that has I've replaced those Halogen before with Halogen bulbs with no effect on the dimmer being able to dim.


as the dimmer was working perfectly well with 4 lamps then 3 lamps then with 2 lamps then I tried fitting dimmable LEDs that's when the dimmer went failty not for the 2 weeks or so I was using just 2 working Halogen lamps on the circuit.

Where as yuo would have said teh Halogens were at fault I concluded it was teh LED's or rathe rthe dommer couldn;t dim , dimmable LED's

I didn't comment on that at all, but feel free to keep making it up.

Where did I say you commented on it. ?

On Monday, 31 October 2016 13:09:55 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:23:36 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:07:23 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 11:07:17 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 10:26:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I have NEVER had tungstun bulbs in nthe kithcen, whenb I moved in in 1987
there was a florescent light, which I replaced with a 4 way halegon.
As teh halagens died I replaced them with LEDs.

Halogens are tungsten lamps, but never let facts get in the way eh.

Halogens are differnt from standard tungsten lamps

obviously. They're still tungstens of course.

And both made of glass and metal too.
So what made the glass bulbs blow.


did you note know that's why they are reffered to differntly.

bit childish

Not as childish not being able to tell one bulb from another.
In electronics and even most DIY specifics are important.


And as you seem to misss the facts the Halogen tungsten lamps did NOT blow the dimmer

no basis for that at all. And of no relevance.

Plenty of basics for that has I've replaced those Halogen before with Halogen bulbs with no effect on the dimmer being able to dim.


as the dimmer was working perfectly well with 4 lamps then 3 lamps then with 2 lamps then I tried fitting dimmable LEDs that's when the dimmer went failty not for the 2 weeks or so I was using just 2 working Halogen lamps on the circuit.

Where as yuo would have said teh Halogens were at fault I concluded it was teh LED's or rathe rthe dommer couldn;t dim , dimmable LED's

I didn't comment on that at all, but feel free to keep making it up.

Where did I say you commented on it. ?

dumb troll

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:23:36 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:07:23 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 11:07:17 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 10:26:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I have NEVER had tungstun bulbs in nthe kithcen, whenb I moved in
in 1987 there was a florescent light, which I replaced with a 4
way halegon. As teh halagens died I replaced them with LEDs.

Halogens are tungsten lamps, but never let facts get in the way eh.

Halogens are differnt from standard tungsten lamps

obviously. They're still tungstens of course.

And both made of glass and metal too. So what made the glass bulbs blow.

The only difference is in the gas used to fill the bulb,

did you note know that's why they are reffered to differntly.

Because they operate at a higher temperature and arec more efficient.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 31/10/16 13:44, charles wrote:
Because they operate at a higher temperature and are more efficient

Because they operate at a higher temperature and are *therefore* more
efficient and have a less reddish light.


--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

On Monday, 31 October 2016 13:47:59 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:23:36 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:07:23 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 11:07:17 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 10:26:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I have NEVER had tungstun bulbs in nthe kithcen, whenb I moved in
in 1987 there was a florescent light, which I replaced with a 4
way halegon. As teh halagens died I replaced them with LEDs.

Halogens are tungsten lamps, but never let facts get in the way eh.

Halogens are differnt from standard tungsten lamps

obviously. They're still tungstens of course.

And both made of glass and metal too. So what made the glass bulbs blow..

The only difference is in the gas used to fill the bulb,

No it's not there;'s more diferncies than that.
Seems you only know the very basics.

Halogen bulbs are technically incandescent light bulbs €“ illumination is produced in both when a tungsten filament is heated sufficiently to emit light or €œincandescence.€� The difference between the two is in the composition of the glass envelope and the gas inside the envelope. A standard incandescent bulb has a heat sensitive glass envelope that contains an inert gas mixture, usually nitrogen-argon. When the tungsten filament is heated it evaporates and deposits metal on the cooler glass envelope (this is why incandescent bulbs appear black at the end of life). This process requires incandescent bulb filaments to be heated less than optimally to give the bulb a reasonable life. The lower filament temperature gives incandescent bulbs their typical orange-yellow, warm appearing light.
Halogen light bulbs utilize a fused quartz envelope (€œcapsule€�) allowing for higher temperatures. Inside the quartz envelope is a vapor, originally iodine, now usually bromine. The tungsten filament evaporates as usual but the higher temperatures are sufficient to cause the tungsten to mix with the vapor instead of depositing on the envelope. Some of the evaporated tungsten is re-deposited on the filament. The combination of this €œregenerative cycle€� and higher filament temperature results in a bulb that has a longer life and slightly higher efficiency than standard incandescent bulbs. The higher temperature filament also produces the €œwhite€� light often associated with halogen bulbs.


did you note know that's why they are reffered to differntly.

Because they operate at a higher temperature and arec more efficient.

more than that.


--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/10/16 13:44, charles wrote:
Because they operate at a higher temperature and are more efficient

Because they operate at a higher temperature and are *therefore* more
efficient and have a less reddish light.


I thought Dave might have been ble to work that out for himself.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 13:47:59 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:23:36 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:07:23 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 11:07:17 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 10:26:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I have NEVER had tungstun bulbs in nthe kithcen, whenb I
moved in in 1987 there was a florescent light, which I
replaced with a 4 way halegon. As teh halagens died I
replaced them with LEDs.

Halogens are tungsten lamps, but never let facts get in the way
eh.

Halogens are differnt from standard tungsten lamps

obviously. They're still tungstens of course.

And both made of glass and metal too. So what made the glass bulbs
blow.

The only difference is in the gas used to fill the bulb,

No it's not there;'s more diferncies than that. Seems you only know the
very basics.

Halogen bulbs are technically incandescent light bulbs — illumination is
produced in both when a tungsten filament is heated sufficiently to emit
light or ”incandescence.• The difference between the two is in the
composition of the glass envelope and the gas inside the envelope. A
standard incandescent bulb has a heat sensitive glass envelope that
contains an inert gas mixture, usually nitrogen-argon. When the tungsten
filament is heated it evaporates and deposits metal on the cooler glass
envelope (this is why incandescent bulbs appear black at the end of
life). This process requires incandescent bulb filaments to be heated
less than optimally to give the bulb a reasonable life. The lower
filament temperature gives incandescent bulbs their typical
orange-yellow, warm appearing light. Halogen light bulbs utilize a fused
quartz envelope (”capsule•) allowing for higher temperatures. Inside the
quartz envelope is a vapor, originally iodine, now usually bromine. The
tungsten filament evaporates as usual but the higher temperatures are
sufficient to cause the tungsten to mix with the vapor instead of
depositing on the envelope. Some of the evaporated tungsten is
re-deposited on the filament. The combination of this ”regenerative
cycle• and higher filament temperature results in a bulb that has a
longer life and slightly higher efficiency than standard incandescent
bulbs. The higher temperature filament also produces the ”white• light
often associated with halogen bulbs.

when they first appeared for car lighting in the 1960s they were known as
"Quartz Iodine" - later on other halogens were used.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 31/10/16 14:36, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/10/16 13:44, charles wrote:
Because they operate at a higher temperature and are more efficient

Because they operate at a higher temperature and are *therefore* more
efficient and have a less reddish light.


I thought Dave might have been able to work that out for himself.


Unwarranted assumption.

--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

On Monday, 31 October 2016 14:46:19 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 13:47:59 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:23:36 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 12:07:23 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 11:07:17 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 10:26:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I have NEVER had tungstun bulbs in nthe kithcen, whenb I
moved in in 1987 there was a florescent light, which I
replaced with a 4 way halegon. As teh halagens died I
replaced them with LEDs.

Halogens are tungsten lamps, but never let facts get in the way
eh.

Halogens are differnt from standard tungsten lamps

obviously. They're still tungstens of course.

And both made of glass and metal too. So what made the glass bulbs
blow.

The only difference is in the gas used to fill the bulb,

No it's not there;'s more diferncies than that. Seems you only know the
very basics.

Halogen bulbs are technically incandescent light bulbs €” illumination is
produced in both when a tungsten filament is heated sufficiently to emit
light or €�incandescence.€¢ The difference between the two is in the
composition of the glass envelope and the gas inside the envelope. A
standard incandescent bulb has a heat sensitive glass envelope that
contains an inert gas mixture, usually nitrogen-argon. When the tungsten
filament is heated it evaporates and deposits metal on the cooler glass
envelope (this is why incandescent bulbs appear black at the end of
life). This process requires incandescent bulb filaments to be heated
less than optimally to give the bulb a reasonable life. The lower
filament temperature gives incandescent bulbs their typical
orange-yellow, warm appearing light. Halogen light bulbs utilize a fused
quartz envelope (€�capsule€¢) allowing for higher temperatures. Inside the
quartz envelope is a vapor, originally iodine, now usually bromine. The
tungsten filament evaporates as usual but the higher temperatures are
sufficient to cause the tungsten to mix with the vapor instead of
depositing on the envelope. Some of the evaporated tungsten is
re-deposited on the filament. The combination of this €�regenerative
cycle€¢ and higher filament temperature results in a bulb that has a
longer life and slightly higher efficiency than standard incandescent
bulbs. The higher temperature filament also produces the €�white€¢ light
often associated with halogen bulbs.

when they first appeared for car lighting in the 1960s they were known as
"Quartz Iodine" - later on other halogens were used.

Not in my kitchen in 2006 they weren't.
Mine we GU10 35 watt each compared to the tungsten bulbs that came in 15W 25W 40W 60W & 10W I did have a 150W and some higher wattage photofloods.
Then there were things called neons even LEDs existed but each have their own characteristics and yuo really needed to have some understanding of the differnt type otherwise you'd have no chance of replacing them or sorting out any problems in teh DIY sense, get a sparky in.

On Monday, 31 October 2016 15:14:44 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
No I haven;t, you just didn't understand the situation as usual.

I've understood perfectly well.

Then you got it plain wrong then.


I actually said that it's quite common for a dimmer to fail when a
tungsten bulb blows.

WTF ! Mine blew when I replaced two halgen bulbs with 2 LED
versions, well didn;t blow so much as not work, flicker and not
reach full brightness.

So likely nothing wrong with the dimmer. Thought everyone knew not all
mains LEDs can be dimmed.

So why didn't the dimmer dim the ghalagen bulbs when the LEDs were
removed ?

Because you broke it through your stupidity?

No I broke it through experimentation I had NO use for the old dimmer(s) as I was going over to LEDs.


Never mind. It's an easy job to fix a dimmer. Oh - forgot. You can't
solder.

I can but you can't change such a dimmer from not being able to dim LEDs to being able to dim LED by changing a triac yuo idiot the circuit needs changing to a trailing edge dimmer.

Only someone us dump as you would 'fix' the dimmer only for it to blow again
as I said yuo are well out of yuor depth, reember the causailty loop.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 11:07:17 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 31 October 2016 10:26:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I have NEVER had tungstun bulbs in nthe kithcen, whenb I moved in in
1987 there was a florescent light, which I replaced with a 4 way
halegon. As teh halagens died I replaced them with LEDs.

Halogens are tungsten lamps, but never let facts get in the way eh.

Halogens are differnt from standard tungsten lamps did you note know
that's why they are reffered to differntly.

You might ask one of your students what a halogen is. And how and why it
is used in a tungsten lamp, come to that. It's the sort of thing I'd
expect a first year on day one could answer.

--
*You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
The only difference is in the gas used to fill the bulb,

No it's not there;'s more diferncies than that.
Seems you only know the very basics.

Halogen bulbs are technically incandescent light bulbs — illumination is
produced in both when a tungsten filament is heated sufficiently to emit
light or ”incandescence.•

Glad you've found out that a so called halogen has a tungsten filament
same as pretty well all other incandescent lamps.

--
*If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.