On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 16:34:48 GMT, Johnny B Good
wrote:

snip

The short answer to that is because they can.

Yes, just like the supplier of any other appliance ... ?

MSFT have got their
customers right where they want them.

But if you ask (/most) customers what they think about it all, they
will just shrug as they won't have a clue what you are going on about.
;-(

No more pussyfooting about. They've
removed the soft options effectively placing their customers between a
rock and a hard place.

I'm pretty sure they have done no such thing for 99% of their
customers who really cgaf about the things a few tekkies feel
*important*. And I mean *really* couldn't, even when you point stuff
out to them.

As far as MSFT are concerned, their customers will either have to like
it and lump it or go elsewhere knowing full well that, for 99% or more of
their precious customer base, there *is* no "Elsewhere" for them to go to.

So, do you think they would really gamble their customer base in such
a way? Look what happened with W8. How long was it before they
released 8.1 'fixing' many of the things that still worked (as such)
but people said they simply didn't like?

Look how much W10 has gone back to W7, from a basic users POV I mean.

*If* Windows 10 was so bad (as a user tool) then I'm guessing more
people would migrate to Apple (and billions of people now have iPhones
and iPads etc) but they don't seem to be doing so:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

https://www.netmarketshare.com/opera...10&qpcustomd=0

I think what we are seeing here is a tiny proportion of a tiny
proportion of people who think a commercial organisation isn't simply
out to earn as much money as possible and that most consumers of such
output actually care past what said solution does for them?

And as far as renting an OS .. most people already rent (/ PAYG) their
Sky TV, Netflix, their home and mobile telephone service, their car,
their holiday home, their house and many many other tings so why do
you think *they* (eg, not *us*) would really care?

But you are right, whilst I've spent very little with MS over the
years, given the choice of renting an OS that does do everything I
need versus going without with an OS that's free but doesn't do
everything I need, I know what I would do, on at least one machine.
;-)

Cheers, T i m

In message , T i m
writes
But you are right, whilst I've spent very little with MS over the
years, given the choice of renting an OS that does do everything I need
versus going without with an OS that's free but doesn't do everything I
need, I know what I would do, on at least one machine.

Stick with the pre-rental version of the OS? As have all of the Adobe
users that I know.
--
Bill

On 25/10/2016 18:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
In this sample, I think out of maybe 50 regulars, we have 2-3 linux users.

Maybe more. I use both.

This box is Win7; my laptop is Win10; my main dev box is Ubuntu.

That CVE list shows Linux as having something like a third of the
problems of Windows over the last 5 years.

Which says to me you need to be careful whatever you're using. Windows
is worse, but not _lots_ worse - and some of that difference may be down
to the number of users being a bigger attack surface.

Andy

In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 25/10/2016 18:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
In this sample, I think out of maybe 50 regulars, we have 2-3 linux users.

Maybe more. I use both.

This box is Win7; my laptop is Win10; my main dev box is Ubuntu.

and I'm writing this using RISC OS (5.23)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 25/10/16 21:26, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 25/10/2016 18:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
In this sample, I think out of maybe 50 regulars, we have 2-3 linux
users.

Maybe more. I use both.

This box is Win7; my laptop is Win10; my main dev box is Ubuntu.

That CVE list shows Linux as having something like a third of the
problems of Windows over the last 5 years.

Which says to me you need to be careful whatever you're using. Windows
is worse, but not _lots_ worse - and some of that difference may be down
to the number of users being a bigger attack surface.

Andy
All I know is that I got 2-3 viruses on windows and have never had
malware on this linux system or any linux system


I used to reboot several times a day, now its several times a month


--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On 25/10/2016 21:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 21:26, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 25/10/2016 18:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
In this sample, I think out of maybe 50 regulars, we have 2-3 linux
users.

Maybe more. I use both.

This box is Win7; my laptop is Win10; my main dev box is Ubuntu.

That CVE list shows Linux as having something like a third of the
problems of Windows over the last 5 years.

Which says to me you need to be careful whatever you're using. Windows
is worse, but not _lots_ worse - and some of that difference may be down
to the number of users being a bigger attack surface.

Andy
All I know is that I got 2-3 viruses on windows and have never had
malware on this linux system or any linux system

I have never had a virus on windows since 3.0.
AFAIK I don't have any malware on my linux boxes either but its hard to
be certain.



I used to reboot several times a day, now its several times a month

That's about the same as this windows laptop and its not usually because
it needs rebooting but because I am taking it somewhere and I don't want
to leave it suspended so I turn it off. It only takes about 35 seconds
to start up so its no hassle.

My linux server machines were both rebooted last week after they
installed some updates. Linux does need to reboot after some updates
despite what TNP claims.

En el artículo , charles
escribió:

and I'm writing this using RISC OS (5.23)

Cue Wodney to tell us there's no such thing.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 25/10/2016 18:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
In this sample, I think out of maybe 50 regulars, we have 2-3 linux
users.

Maybe more. I use both.

This box is Win7; my laptop is Win10; my main dev box is Ubuntu.

and I'm writing this using RISC OS (5.23)

And no problems with constant updates there. ;-) Or worries about a virus,
etc.

--
*A cartoonist was found dead in his home. Details are sketchy.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/10/2016 21:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I used to reboot several times a day, now its several times a month

I had to reboot my godarnn Linux box about 10 times yesterday trying to
get something to work. Supposedly you can just restart networkmanager.
In practice it doesn't come up quite the same as it does after a reboot

Andy

En el artículo , Vir
Campestris escribió:

I had to reboot my godarnn Linux box about 10 times yesterday trying to
get something to work. Supposedly you can just restart networkmanager.
In practice it doesn't come up quite the same as it does after a reboot

yum -y erase NetworkManager, reboot, and be happy.

It's a pain in the rectum that gets in the way of everything, like
SELinux.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On 26/10/16 21:30, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 25/10/2016 21:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I used to reboot several times a day, now its several times a month

I had to reboot my godarnn Linux box about 10 times yesterday trying to
get something to work. Supposedly you can just restart networkmanager.
In practice it doesn't come up quite the same as it does after a reboot


Yes. The ONLY thing that crashes my systems here is a serious network
issue, especially since I run NFS.

It is possible to get situations the top level software simply doesn't
understand.

Especially if the NFS is mounted with timeouts.

Add in a maybe buggy wifi or driver, and the potential for 'I cant make
this out' *sulk* happens.

The worst offender is my wifi connected laptop. After a random number of
hours, it starts disconnecting and reconnecting. Sometimes it then stays
up, sometimes it locks up. Might be the router, the hardware or the
driver. Its no big deal compared with windows, which used to crash on me
every 5-10 minutes when running big memory intensive CAD programs. I'd
save regularly.

My guess is that you have buggy hardware/driver combination, and it
needs a 'chip reset' to get back to sanity.



Andy


--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 26/10/16 22:16, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Vir
Campestris escribió:

I had to reboot my godarnn Linux box about 10 times yesterday trying to
get something to work. Supposedly you can just restart networkmanager.
In practice it doesn't come up quite the same as it does after a reboot

yum -y erase NetworkManager, reboot, and be happy.


Going to be a whole lot of good 9on a debian derived installation, that.

It's a pain in the rectum that gets in the way of everything, like
SELinux.



--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

On 27/10/2016 10:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/10/16 21:30, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 25/10/2016 21:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I used to reboot several times a day, now its several times a month

I had to reboot my godarnn Linux box about 10 times yesterday trying to
get something to work. Supposedly you can just restart networkmanager.
In practice it doesn't come up quite the same as it does after a
reboot


Yes. The ONLY thing that crashes my systems here is a serious network
issue, especially since I run NFS.

It is possible to get situations the top level software simply doesn't
understand.

What else can you expect when using a stateless networking protocol.
Each application has to take into account anything that can happen to
the remote file system. How it takes into account an application that
ignores the locks and writes stuff to a file regardless is anyone's guess.

On 24/10/2016 09:21, Bill wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes
or get all the "new" ones all at once

That's the way it works for Win7 now. All or nothing. Is the view
nice from that stone you've been living under?

Last night I set this W7 machine up to perform some extended processing
while I slept. This morning it had restarted, and there were a whole
bunch of new updates installed. I suspect the large number was because
the Windows update service has just been sitting there when I have
manually checked for updates.
It had been set to download but don't install. It was now set to
automatic downloads.
I have now reset it to download but don't install. It appears that this
works as it always did ie providing a list of updates with the ability
to select or deselect installation.

I have only lost what was done last night, but it is way beyond just
annoying.

Have there been any recent changes to the way W7 updates operate, and
are the changes documented anywhere?

No.

I have my PC set to download updates and then a symbol that looks like
the explorer Icon appear next to the clock. When I click on it I get
the Windows Update page which shows all the downloaded updates, which
ones are optional and which are important, but I can still select the
ones I want installed.

every so often a cumulative update appears, but you can ignore that
if you wish.