Supermarket shelves have both in abundance.

I would have thought one or other would have an overall advantage and
led to the demise of its rival.

What factors are at work here?




--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 10-Sep-16 8:51 PM, Graham. wrote:
Supermarket shelves have both in abundance.

I would have thought one or other would have an overall advantage and
led to the demise of its rival.

What factors are at work here?

All right, I'll bite.

Glass is needed if the product is poured hot into the jar and then
allowed to cool, eg jam.

But, you can get mayonnaise in both glass and plastic jars/squeezy
bottles. Is that a cold pour, then?

I personally feel milk tastes wrong in plastic bottles and also seems to go
off if left in, say a porch quicker in plastic as glass holds cold better so
to speak.
I also wonder why soup comes in cans. After all you pour it out to use it.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Graham." wrote in message
...
Supermarket shelves have both in abundance.

I would have thought one or other would have an overall advantage and
led to the demise of its rival.

What factors are at work here?




--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Graham wrote

Supermarket shelves have both in abundance.

Yes.

I would have thought one or other would have an
overall advantage and led to the demise of its rival.

More fool you.

What factors are at work here?

Glass ones break when you drop them, but
are much better if you want to reuse them.

With stuff like beer, it stays viable in glass much longer.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 06:53:49 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Graham wrote

Supermarket shelves have both in abundance.

Yes.

I would have thought one or other would have an
overall advantage and led to the demise of its rival.

More fool you.

I was thinking more about market forces etc. rather than my own
preferences.

What factors are at work here?

Glass ones break when you drop them, but
are much better if you want to reuse them.

With stuff like beer, it stays viable in glass much longer.


Ok, here is another question.
Ring-pull cans are more convenient than those that require a
can-opener, so why haven't they taken over?
It doesn't seem to correlate to price, Lidl have lots of ring pull
lines.


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Graham wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Graham wrote

Supermarket shelves have both in abundance.

Yes.

I would have thought one or other would have an
overall advantage and led to the demise of its rival.

More fool you.

I was thinking more about market forces
etc. rather than my own preferences.

What factors are at work here?

Glass ones break when you drop them, but
are much better if you want to reuse them.

With stuff like beer, it stays viable in glass much longer.

And I don't buy the line that all stuff that is packaged
hot end up in glass containers either. Plenty doesn't.

Ok, here is another question.

Ring-pull cans are more convenient than those that
require a can-opener, so why haven't they taken over?

Because they don't work so well with the larger cans.

It doesn't seem to correlate to price,
Lidl have lots of ring pull lines.

On Saturday, 10 September 2016 21:16:05 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
I personally feel milk tastes wrong in plastic bottles and also seems to go
off if left in, say a porch quicker in plastic as glass holds cold better so
to speak.
I also wonder why soup comes in cans. After all you pour it out to use it.
Brian

Soup is cooked at 130degC or more after being sealed in the can.

In message , Graham.
writes

Ring-pull cans are more convenient than those that require a
can-opener, so why haven't they taken over?

Why do corned beef tins still have a separate key? Why are corned beef
tins not cylindrical?

Why is sugar still sold in paper bags? Why not plastic tubs, like most
flour?
--
Graeme

Graeme wrote
Graham wrote

Ring-pull cans are more convenient than those that
require a can-opener, so why haven't they taken over?

Why do corned beef tins still have a separate key?

Because you end up with a result that is easier
to get the corned beer out of that way.

Why are corned beef tins not cylindrical?

Likely because the cans are less easy to damage when
not cylindrical with that separate key approach.

Why is sugar still sold in paper bags?

Because that is significantly cheaper and works fine with sugar.

Why not plastic tubs, like most flour?

Most flour isnt in plastic tubs here, its mostly in paper bags.

On 11/09/2016 08:11, Graeme wrote:
In message , Graham.
writes

Ring-pull cans are more convenient than those that require a
can-opener, so why haven't they taken over?

Why do corned beef tins still have a separate key? Why are corned beef
tins not cylindrical?

Why is sugar still sold in paper bags? Why not plastic tubs, like most
flour?

Corned beef tins stack extremely well, are very stable, and fill a given
volume better than round tins. The modest taper enables relatively easy
removal of contents. And the contents can easily be cut into approximate
cubes by dividing the narrowest dimension into three (two cuts), the
middle dimension into four (three cuts) then the longest dimension into
five (four cuts).

Each near-cube will be just under six grams or a fifth of an ounce.

Separate key is useful in some circumstances but our current ordinary
opener is quite capable of opening the ends. Not all can openers are so
good at that.

--
Rod

On Sunday, 11 September 2016 08:34:29 UTC+1, polygonum wrote:


Corned beef tins stack extremely well, are very stable, and fill a given
volume better than round tins. The modest taper enables relatively easy
removal of contents. And the contents can easily be cut into approximate
cubes by dividing the narrowest dimension into three (two cuts), the
middle dimension into four (three cuts) then the longest dimension into
five (four cuts).

You can get special tools to open containers safely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GStnfARoA0w

In message , polygonum
writes
On 11/09/2016 08:11, Graeme wrote:

Why do corned beef tins still have a separate key? Why are corned beef
tins not cylindrical?

Corned beef tins stack extremely well, are very stable, and fill a
given volume better than round tins.

So why, of all the tinned meats, is only corned beef packed in that
particular tin?

The modest taper enables relatively easy removal of contents.

Hmm. Sometimes.

And the contents can easily be cut into approximate cubes by dividing
the narrowest dimension into three (two cuts), the middle dimension
into four (three cuts) then the longest dimension into five (four cuts).

An oblong would be easier, and I often eat CB sliced either as part of a
cold meat selection, or in a lunchtime sarnie.

Separate key is useful in some circumstances but our current ordinary
opener is quite capable of opening the ends. Not all can openers are so
good at that.

But redesigning the tin to match the vast majority of tins would mean it
could be opened with any tin opener. Replacing the key with a ring pull
would be cheaper to produce and easier to use.

There must be a good reason for the continuation of the separate key.
--
Graeme

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 06:53:49 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Graham wrote

Supermarket shelves have both in abundance.

Yes.

I would have thought one or other would have an
overall advantage and led to the demise of its rival.

More fool you.

I was thinking more about market forces etc. rather than my own
preferences.

What factors are at work here?

Glass ones break when you drop them, but
are much better if you want to reuse them.

With stuff like beer, it stays viable in glass much longer.


Ok, here is another question.
Ring-pull cans are more convenient than those that require a
can-opener, so why haven't they taken over?
It doesn't seem to correlate to price, Lidl have lots of ring pull
lines.

It probably means a large investment in new canning machinery, Corned beef
still comes in time with a un0wind strip.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 10-Sep-16 8:51 PM, Graham. wrote:
Supermarket shelves have both in abundance.

I would have thought one or other would have an overall advantage and
led to the demise of its rival.

What factors are at work here?

Neither is best for all products. Some of the things that are taken into
account a

Permeability: PET is permeable to oxygen. Glass is not. That is why
expensive salad and cooking oils come in glass bottles. Only cheaper
oils, which it is assumed will not be stored for extended periods, come
in plastic bottles.

Strength and weight: Glass is heavy. Glass capable of withstanding
pressure is particularly heavy. Heavy products require more fuel to move
about and may limit the quantity that can be carried in one vehicle.
Hence, many fizzy drinks come in PET bottles.

Shipping volume: Plastic bottles are thinner, so the same quantity of
product can be packed into a smaller space, or more product can be
packed into the same space. Smaller shipping volumes mean fewer lorries
are needed to move the huge amount of products travelling on our roads
every day.

Safety: Glass is brittle and is more likely to break if dropped. Plastic
is safer and suffers less loss due to accidental damage.

Image: Glass is seen by consumers as more up-market or more traditional,
so premium products and products trying to present a traditional image
are normally presented in glass bottles, rather than in plastic.


--
--

Colin Bignell

On 11/09/16 09:09, Graeme wrote:
In message , polygonum
writes
On 11/09/2016 08:11, Graeme wrote:

Why do corned beef tins still have a separate key? Why are corned beef
tins not cylindrical?

Corned beef tins stack extremely well, are very stable, and fill a
given volume better than round tins.

So why, of all the tinned meats, is only corned beef packed in that
particular tin?

The modest taper enables relatively easy removal of contents.

Hmm. Sometimes.

And the contents can easily be cut into approximate cubes by dividing
the narrowest dimension into three (two cuts), the middle dimension
into four (three cuts) then the longest dimension into five (four cuts).

An oblong would be easier, and I often eat CB sliced either as part of a
cold meat selection, or in a lunchtime sarnie.

Separate key is useful in some circumstances but our current ordinary
opener is quite capable of opening the ends. Not all can openers are
so good at that.

But redesigning the tin to match the vast majority of tins would mean it
could be opened with any tin opener. Replacing the key with a ring pull
would be cheaper to produce and easier to use.

There must be a good reason for the continuation of the separate key.

Any idea how much it costs to re-tool a canning factory?


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 09:09:37 +0100, Graeme
wrote:



But redesigning the tin to match the vast majority of tins would mean it
could be opened with any tin opener. Replacing the key with a ring pull
would be cheaper to produce and easier to use.

There must be a good reason for the continuation of the separate key.


FFS, if it bothers people that much choose a brand that uses a
ringpull.

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BGHGGH/tin-...eef-BGHGGH.jpg



G.Harman

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , polygonum
writes
On 11/09/2016 08:11, Graeme wrote:

Why do corned beef tins still have a separate key? Why are corned beef
tins not cylindrical?

Corned beef tins stack extremely well, are very stable, and fill a given
volume better than round tins.

So why, of all the tinned meats, is only corned beef packed in that
particular tin?

Because the contents are quite unusual. Not just corned beef, spam too.

The modest taper enables relatively easy removal of contents.

Hmm. Sometimes.

Always if you do it properly.

And the contents can easily be cut into approximate cubes by dividing the
narrowest dimension into three (two cuts), the middle dimension into four
(three cuts) then the longest dimension into five (four cuts).

An oblong would be easier, and I often eat CB sliced either as part of a
cold meat selection, or in a lunchtime sarnie.

Separate key is useful in some circumstances but our current ordinary
opener is quite capable of opening the ends. Not all can openers are so
good at that.

But redesigning the tin to match the vast majority of tins would mean it
could be opened with any tin opener. Replacing the key with a ring pull
would be cheaper to produce and easier to use.

But not as good for removing the contents.

There must be a good reason for the continuation of the separate key.

Because it makes removing the contents easier.

On 11-Sep-16 9:35 AM, Nightjar wrote:


Permeability: PET is permeable to oxygen. Glass is not. That is why
expensive salad and cooking oils come in glass bottles. Only cheaper
oils, which it is assumed will not be stored for extended periods, come
in plastic bottles.

Strength and weight: Glass is heavy. Glass capable of withstanding
pressure is particularly heavy. Heavy products require more fuel to move
about and may limit the quantity that can be carried in one vehicle.
Hence, many fizzy drinks come in PET bottles.

It's interesting that PET is permeable to oxygen, but not CO2.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 11/09/16 09:09, Graeme wrote:
There must be a good reason for the continuation of the separate key.

Any idea how much it costs to re-tool a canning factory?

No idea, but that doesn't really answer the question. Countless stuff
has been subject to package redesign over the years, but not corned
beef. I just wondered why.
--
Graeme

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 11-Sep-16 9:35 AM, Nightjar wrote:


Permeability: PET is permeable to oxygen. Glass is not. That is why
expensive salad and cooking oils come in glass bottles. Only cheaper
oils, which it is assumed will not be stored for extended periods, come
in plastic bottles.

Strength and weight: Glass is heavy. Glass capable of withstanding
pressure is particularly heavy. Heavy products require more fuel to move
about and may limit the quantity that can be carried in one vehicle.
Hence, many fizzy drinks come in PET bottles.

It's interesting that PET is permeable to oxygen, but not CO2.

It is actually. That's why beer doesn’t last as long in PET as it does in
glass.

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 11/09/16 09:09, Graeme wrote:
There must be a good reason for the continuation of the separate key.

Any idea how much it costs to re-tool a canning factory?

No idea, but that doesn't really answer the question. Countless stuff has
been subject to package redesign over the years, but not corned beef. I
just wondered why.

Because those cans work better with that sort of solid content.

In article ,
GB writes:
On 10-Sep-16 8:51 PM, Graham. wrote:
Supermarket shelves have both in abundance.

I would have thought one or other would have an overall advantage and
led to the demise of its rival.

What factors are at work here?

All right, I'll bite.

Glass is needed if the product is poured hot into the jar and then
allowed to cool, eg jam.

More specifically, it's boiled in the jars before the lids seal,
to generate the sterile sealed environment (and the vacuum).

But, you can get mayonnaise in both glass and plastic jars/squeezy
bottles. Is that a cold pour, then?

It may still be pasturised after bottling, but not at such a high
temperature.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
I also wonder why soup comes in cans. After all you pour it out to use
it

The canning process sterilises things. So they have a nearly indefinite
life.

Fresh soup usually comes in a container like other fresh liquids. Kept
chilled before sale.

--
*Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 11-Sep-16 11:14 AM, GB wrote:
On 11-Sep-16 9:35 AM, Nightjar wrote:


Permeability: PET is permeable to oxygen. Glass is not. That is why
expensive salad and cooking oils come in glass bottles. Only cheaper
oils, which it is assumed will not be stored for extended periods, come
in plastic bottles.

Strength and weight: Glass is heavy. Glass capable of withstanding
pressure is particularly heavy. Heavy products require more fuel to move
about and may limit the quantity that can be carried in one vehicle.
Hence, many fizzy drinks come in PET bottles.

It's interesting that PET is permeable to oxygen, but not CO2.

It is permeable to both, but CO2 loss is a slower process, so it does
not really matter for most fizzy drinks.


--
--

Colin Bignell

On 11/09/2016 11:44, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
GB writes:
On 10-Sep-16 8:51 PM, Graham. wrote:
Supermarket shelves have both in abundance.

I would have thought one or other would have an overall advantage and
led to the demise of its rival.

What factors are at work here?

All right, I'll bite.

Glass is needed if the product is poured hot into the jar and then
allowed to cool, eg jam.

More specifically, it's boiled in the jars before the lids seal,
to generate the sterile sealed environment (and the vacuum).

But, you can get mayonnaise in both glass and plastic jars/squeezy
bottles. Is that a cold pour, then?

It may still be pasturised after bottling, but not at such a high
temperature.

You can buy jam in a plastic squeezy bottle these days.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 11/09/2016 11:18, Graeme wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 11/09/16 09:09, Graeme wrote:
There must be a good reason for the continuation of the separate key.

Any idea how much it costs to re-tool a canning factory?

No idea, but that doesn't really answer the question. Countless stuff
has been subject to package redesign over the years, but not corned
beef. I just wondered why.

There's many more comments and suggestions he

https://www.theguardian.com/notesand...,-2642,00.html

--
Rod

In message , polygonum
writes

There's many more comments and suggestions he

https://www.theguardian.com/notesand...,-2642,00.html

Excellent!
--
Graeme

In article ,
Ash Burton writes:
On 11/09/2016 11:44, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
GB writes:
On 10-Sep-16 8:51 PM, Graham. wrote:
Supermarket shelves have both in abundance.

I would have thought one or other would have an overall advantage and
led to the demise of its rival.

What factors are at work here?

All right, I'll bite.

Glass is needed if the product is poured hot into the jar and then
allowed to cool, eg jam.

More specifically, it's boiled in the jars before the lids seal,
to generate the sterile sealed environment (and the vacuum).

But, you can get mayonnaise in both glass and plastic jars/squeezy
bottles. Is that a cold pour, then?

It may still be pasturised after bottling, but not at such a high
temperature.

You can buy jam in a plastic squeezy bottle these days.

That will require either extra preservatives, or a high
sugar content (lower fruit content) to act as a preservative
(or both). That would also make it cheaper to manufacture,
and most people would regard it as an inferior product due
to lower fruit content/taste.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


With stuff like beer, it stays viable in glass much longer.


Not once opened.

--
Adam

On Sunday, 11 September 2016 14:43:39 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


With stuff like beer, it stays viable in glass much longer.


All of my beer is in plastic.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrWq3jZWYAAKwoq.jpg

On 11-Sep-16 2:52 PM, Simon Mason wrote:
On Sunday, 11 September 2016 14:43:39 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


With stuff like beer, it stays viable in glass much longer.


All of my beer is in plastic.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrWq3jZWYAAKwoq.jpg


Since you've posted that picture again, can I ask what's in that row of
bags under the barrels?

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 11-Sep-16 2:52 PM, Simon Mason wrote:
On Sunday, 11 September 2016 14:43:39 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


With stuff like beer, it stays viable in glass much longer.


All of my beer is in plastic.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrWq3jZWYAAKwoq.jpg


Since you've posted that picture again, can I ask what's in that row of
bags under the barrels?

And maybe point out where the beer is?

--
Adam

On Sunday, 11 September 2016 16:35:17 UTC+1, GB wrote:
On 11-Sep-16 2:52 PM, Simon Mason wrote:
On Sunday, 11 September 2016 14:43:39 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


With stuff like beer, it stays viable in glass much longer.


All of my beer is in plastic.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrWq3jZWYAAKwoq.jpg


Since you've posted that picture again, can I ask what's in that row of
bags under the barrels?

Cat litter.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 12:04:45 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
I also wonder why soup comes in cans. After all you pour it out to use
it

The canning process sterilises things. So they have a nearly indefinite
life.

Fresh soup usually comes in a container like other fresh liquids. Kept
chilled before sale.

Rubbish.
Fresh soup comes from a pan on SWMBO's hob.




--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 11/09/2016 13:15, polygonum wrote:
On 11/09/2016 11:18, Graeme wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 11/09/16 09:09, Graeme wrote:
There must be a good reason for the continuation of the separate key.

Any idea how much it costs to re-tool a canning factory?

No idea, but that doesn't really answer the question. Countless stuff
has been subject to package redesign over the years, but not corned
beef. I just wondered why.

There's many more comments and suggestions he

https://www.theguardian.com/notesand...,-2642,00.html

Never mind corned beef tins, what about those Fray Bentos pies? You
need a bloody angle grinder!

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

On Sunday, 11 September 2016 18:03:55 UTC+1, Graham. wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 12:04:45 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
I also wonder why soup comes in cans. After all you pour it out to use
it

The canning process sterilises things. So they have a nearly indefinite
life.

Fresh soup usually comes in a container like other fresh liquids. Kept
chilled before sale.

Rubbish.
Fresh soup comes from a pan on SWMBO's hob.

We will be getting free electricity soon with British Gas every Saturday 0900-1700. Free saunas, washing machines and batch cooking a gogo.

In message , David Lang
writes

Never mind corned beef tins, what about those Fray Bentos pies? You
need a bloody angle grinder!

Haven't had one of those for a few years! Back in my single days, I
always had one at the back of the cupboard, for emergencies.
Surprisingly edible.
--
Graeme

"Simon Mason" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 11 September 2016 18:03:55 UTC+1, Graham. wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 12:04:45 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
I also wonder why soup comes in cans. After all you pour it out to
use
it

The canning process sterilises things. So they have a nearly indefinite
life.

Fresh soup usually comes in a container like other fresh liquids. Kept
chilled before sale.

Rubbish.
Fresh soup comes from a pan on SWMBO's hob.

We will be getting free electricity soon with British Gas every Saturday
0900-1700. Free saunas, washing machines and batch cooking a gogo.


I did wonder if a thick daft **** would fall for that one.

Free electricity my arse.



--
Adam

On 11/09/2016 18:05, David Lang wrote:

Never mind corned beef tins, what about those Fray Bentos pies? You
need a bloody angle grinder!

Back in the very early 1960s, my father used to take one of the Fray
Bentos pies to work (suspect when he was doing an overnight shift).
However, my memory is a quite an acceptable product - well raised puff
pastry, very savoury.

Is it my memory from all that time ago? Or have they become absolutely
dreadful? Last time I saw one, there is no way I would have eaten it.

--
Rod

On Sunday, 11 September 2016 18:34:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:


We will be getting free electricity soon with British Gas every Saturday
0900-1700. Free saunas, washing machines and batch cooking a gogo.


I did wonder if a thick daft **** would fall for that one.

Free electricity my arse.

Already signed up, pal.


https://www.britishgas.co.uk/product...ty-tariff.html