Went to a friends barbeque last night and they had two of these in the
garden, one pointing up at rear house wall (including windows), and
another up to a tree at the end of the garden. Looked amazing.

http://www.outdoordecordirect.com/artifact/2336252/

(American site, but available in UK via Amazon and others).

Are these safe and legal, eg. if you happen to look at one from a few
metres away, and what about aircraft if it pointing upwards, given all
the recent problems with handheld lasers around airports?

Well obviously I cannot see the pictures, but most lasers sold for home use
are safe, its often people pointing them at drivers and pilots that causes
issues. I can well recall in the 80s at a Cliff concert lots of lasers were
aimed just above the heads of the audience to make the dry Ice smoke look
more weird for devil Woman, and several of us stood up and got eyefulls of
blue green laser light and though it was obviously momentarily dazzling it
did no harm.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"Davidm" wrote in message
...
Went to a friends barbeque last night and they had two of these in the
garden, one pointing up at rear house wall (including windows), and
another up to a tree at the end of the garden. Looked amazing.

http://www.outdoordecordirect.com/artifact/2336252/

(American site, but available in UK via Amazon and others).

Are these safe and legal, eg. if you happen to look at one from a few
metres away, and what about aircraft if it pointing upwards, given all
the recent problems with handheld lasers around airports?

On Saturday, 13 August 2016 10:29:33 UTC+1, Davidm wrote:

Went to a friends barbeque last night and they had two of these in the
garden, one pointing up at rear house wall (including windows), and
another up to a tree at the end of the garden. Looked amazing.

http://www.outdoordecordirect.com/artifact/2336252/

(American site, but available in UK via Amazon and others).

Are these safe and legal, eg. if you happen to look at one from a few
metres away, and what about aircraft if it pointing upwards, given all
the recent problems with handheld lasers around airports?

There are specific rules & required procedures for laser show lighting, and 5 watts pointed where people can look into it is a definite no. I doubt it is 5w, but we have no easy way to know what power it is.


NT

On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 1:34:34 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, 13 August 2016 10:29:33 UTC+1, Davidm wrote:

Went to a friends barbeque last night and they had two of these in the
garden, one pointing up at rear house wall (including windows), and
another up to a tree at the end of the garden. Looked amazing.

http://www.outdoordecordirect.com/artifact/2336252/

(American site, but available in UK via Amazon and others).

Are these safe and legal, eg. if you happen to look at one from a few
metres away, and what about aircraft if it pointing upwards, given all
the recent problems with handheld lasers around airports?

There are specific rules & required procedures for laser show lighting, and 5 watts pointed where people can look into it is a definite no. I doubt it is 5w, but we have no easy way to know what power it is.


NT

There will be a small m missing, 5mW 0.005W rather than 5W, 5.00W which wouold be a hazard.

Power density is low, get considerably more exposure to harmful radiation on a sunny day.

On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 06:12:53 -0700, Adam Aglionby wrote:

There will be a small m missing, 5mW 0.005W rather than 5W, 5.00W which
wouold be a hazard.

Certainly would! They should also state the class (one of four) this
laser falls into.

On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 10:29:28 +0100, Davidm
wrote:

Went to a friends barbeque last night and they had two of these in the
garden, one pointing up at rear house wall (including windows), and
another up to a tree at the end of the garden. Looked amazing.

http://www.outdoordecordirect.com/artifact/2336252/

(American site, but available in UK via Amazon and others).

Are these safe and legal, eg. if you happen to look at one from a few
metres away,

I tend to distrust products which quote irrelevant alphabet soup such
as "Safe: With certificates of FDA, CE, FCC, ROHS and IP65 Test
Report, UL IP44 Power Supply, this laser light is safe and
environment-friendly." Of those "certificates" none are to do with
laser safety. I assume their "5W" should be 5mW but anything is
possible.

Of the two lasers the green is potentially the more harmful as the
green light is produced by a standard laser diode first generating
near infrared light with a wavelength of 808nm. This is focused onto a
neodymium crystal that converts the light into infrared with a
wavelength of 1064nm. In the final step, the light passes into a
frequency doubling crystal that emits green light at a wavelength of
532nm. The beam is reflected back and forward in this process and to
prevent any IR in the beam escaping the laser should incorporate an IR
filter. Many do not.

As IR is invisible the normal blink reflex which gives protection
against direct viewing at low power and visible frequencies doesn't
work. Moreover a green laser with no IR filter may well be below the
5mW limit for visible light but emitting far higher levels of IR.

There is no simple way of testing whether either laser is safe. (it is
possible using a CD as a diffraction grating and a web cam with the IR
filter removed but not easy). Given the number of Chinese lasers
which, when formally tested, fail to meet safety standards (often by a
factor of 10 times or more) the probability is that these are not
safe. There is a strong incentive for manufacturers and online
sellers to produce higher power lasers and label them as 5mW. The
labeling deceives the user into thinking they are safe, the higher
power produces brighter effects and gets them better user reviews.

and what about aircraft if it pointing upwards, given all
the recent problems with handheld lasers around airports?

The problems with lasers and aircraft is not only the potential for
direct eye damage but the potential for distraction during crucial
phases of flight. Any laser, no matter what colour or power, would be
a distraction shining into the cockpit so if you had one regularly
decorating flight paths around you you should expect a visit from the
constabulary sooner or later. (Article 222 of the Air Navigation
Order 2009 " A person must not in the United Kingdom direct or shine
any light at any aircraft in flight so as to dazzle or distract the
pilot of the aircraft. ").

In the advert you quote there are some other things that would point
to the lack of likelihood of the thing ever meeting any safety
standard. For example the use of Chinglish and technobabble :-

"Why your Laser Projector not come with a remote?

Compared to other similar items with remote controls, ours have better
quality and more stable.To use the remote control, you have to aim it
directly at the Infrared sensors or RF sensor, which is not healthy
for naked eye. Based on this, we decided to not include the remote
control for this item."

(Real answer - it would have cost us 50 cents more).

Brian-Gaff wrote:
Well obviously I cannot see the pictures, but most lasers sold for
home use are safe, its often people pointing them at drivers and
pilots that causes issues. I can well recall in the 80s at a Cliff
concert lots of lasers were aimed just above the heads of the
audience to make the dry Ice smoke look more weird for devil Woman,
and several of us stood up and got eyefulls of blue green laser light
and though it was obviously momentarily dazzling it did no harm.
Brian

I'm not nitpicking Brian, but you are now blind. :-p

On Saturday, 13 August 2016 23:33:03 UTC+1, Graham. wrote:
Peter Parry Wrote in message:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 10:29:28 +0100, Davidm
wrote:

Went to a friends barbeque last night and they had two of these in the
garden, one pointing up at rear house wall (including windows), and
another up to a tree at the end of the garden. Looked amazing.

http://www.outdoordecordirect.com/artifact/2336252/

(American site, but available in UK via Amazon and others).

Are these safe and legal, eg. if you happen to look at one from a few
metres away,

megasnip

Couldn't the excessive power be explained by a motor or other
actuators that move the optics?

Sure. It could also be PMPO laser watts. Or anything. Or more likely nothing. It's an unknown, does not appear to have ever seen any sort of standard testing, lacks the legal requirements for laser devices, and is therefore likely to be unsafe. It's a fairly typical 3rd world product, legal requirements and safety are more miss than hit, and produt claims mean next to nothing.


NT

Peter Parry Wrote in message:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 10:29:28 +0100, Davidm
wrote:

Went to a friends barbeque last night and they had two of these in the
garden, one pointing up at rear house wall (including windows), and
another up to a tree at the end of the garden. Looked amazing.

http://www.outdoordecordirect.com/artifact/2336252/

(American site, but available in UK via Amazon and others).

Are these safe and legal, eg. if you happen to look at one from a few
metres away,

I tend to distrust products which quote irrelevant alphabet soup such
as "Safe: With certificates of FDA, CE, FCC, ROHS and IP65 Test
Report, UL IP44 Power Supply, this laser light is safe and
environment-friendly." Of those "certificates" none are to do with
laser safety. I assume their "5W" should be 5mW but anything is
possible.

Of the two lasers the green is potentially the more harmful as the
green light is produced by a standard laser diode first generating
near infrared light with a wavelength of 808nm. This is focused onto a
neodymium crystal that converts the light into infrared with a
wavelength of 1064nm. In the final step, the light passes into a
frequency doubling crystal that emits green light at a wavelength of
532nm. The beam is reflected back and forward in this process and to
prevent any IR in the beam escaping the laser should incorporate an IR
filter. Many do not.

As IR is invisible the normal blink reflex which gives protection
against direct viewing at low power and visible frequencies doesn't
work. Moreover a green laser with no IR filter may well be below the
5mW limit for visible light but emitting far higher levels of IR.

There is no simple way of testing whether either laser is safe. (it is
possible using a CD as a diffraction grating and a web cam with the IR
filter removed but not easy). Given the number of Chinese lasers
which, when formally tested, fail to meet safety standards (often by a
factor of 10 times or more) the probability is that these are not
safe. There is a strong incentive for manufacturers and online
sellers to produce higher power lasers and label them as 5mW. The
labeling deceives the user into thinking they are safe, the higher
power produces brighter effects and gets them better user reviews.

and what about aircraft if it pointing upwards, given all
the recent problems with handheld lasers around airports?

The problems with lasers and aircraft is not only the potential for
direct eye damage but the potential for distraction during crucial
phases of flight. Any laser, no matter what colour or power, would be
a distraction shining into the cockpit so if you had one regularly
decorating flight paths around you you should expect a visit from the
constabulary sooner or later. (Article 222 of the Air Navigation
Order 2009 " A person must not in the United Kingdom direct or shine
any light at any aircraft in flight so as to dazzle or distract the
pilot of the aircraft. ").

In the advert you quote there are some other things that would point
to the lack of likelihood of the thing ever meeting any safety
standard. For example the use of Chinglish and technobabble :-

"Why your Laser Projector not come with a remote?

Compared to other similar items with remote controls, ours have better
quality and more stable.To use the remote control, you have to aim it
directly at the Infrared sensors or RF sensor, which is not healthy
for naked eye. Based on this, we decided to not include the remote
control for this item."

(Real answer - it would have cost us 50 cents more).
l
Couldn't the excessive power be explained by a motor or other
actuators that move the optics?
--

%Profound_observation%


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 13:30:19 -0000 (UTC)
Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 06:12:53 -0700, Adam Aglionby wrote:

There will be a small m missing, 5mW 0.005W rather than 5W, 5.00W
which wouold be a hazard.

Certainly would! They should also state the class (one of four) this
laser falls into.

IF the power is in fact 5mW, then the claim of 5W surely means it is
erroneously advertised. Strike one.
If it is really 5W, as clearly stated in the advert., then I don't want
to be anywhere near it.

--
Davey.

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 13 August 2016 23:33:03 UTC+1, Graham. wrote:
Peter Parry Wrote in message:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 10:29:28 +0100, Davidm
wrote:

Went to a friends barbeque last night and they had two of these in the
garden, one pointing up at rear house wall (including windows), and
another up to a tree at the end of the garden. Looked amazing.

http://www.outdoordecordirect.com/artifact/2336252/

(American site, but available in UK via Amazon and others).

Are these safe and legal, eg. if you happen to look at one from a few
metres away,

megasnip

Couldn't the excessive power be explained by a motor or other
actuators that move the optics?

Sure. It could also be PMPO laser watts. Or anything. Or more likely
nothing. It's an unknown, does not appear to have ever seen any sort of
standard testing, lacks the legal requirements for laser devices, and is
therefore likely to be unsafe. It's a fairly typical 3rd world product,
legal requirements and safety are more miss than hit, and produt claims mean
next to nothing.

NT

This website gives more details of what looks like the same product:
http://www.blistonetech.com/garden-s...r-lights-.html
The 5W is indeed for the motor. The red and green lasers are 100mW and 20mW
respectively.
The website says class 3A safety, but Wikipedia does not mention this class
(new system).
Those powers would be class III B (old system), which is a bit hazardous.
The picture on the following website has a blurry label, looking more like
class III B than III A.
http://www.lightinthebox.com/laser-l..._p4927329.html
The only watttage quoted on that site is "0.5W".
--
Dave W

On 13/08/2016 14:12, Adam Aglionby wrote:


There will be a small m missing, 5mW 0.005W rather than 5W, 5.00W which wouold be a hazard.

Power density is low, get considerably more exposure to harmful radiation on a sunny day.


Other adverts for the same/similar product have a Class IIIa label stuck
besides the optical output lens. This doesn't mean that it is limited
to 5mW on some Chinese made equipment. The optics after the laser are
obviously spreading the beam so it is probably safe. The more honest
adverts suggests that 3m from the source the beam is so de-focused that
the effect degrades.

However, none of the 6 adverts for the same/similar products, even from
UK sellers, suggest that the product is eye safe or give any meaningful
details about the laser power. One supplier only quotes the BS standard
for a UK 3 pin mains plug!

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Saturday, 13 August 2016 12:13:18 UTC+1, Brian-Gaff wrote:
Well obviously I cannot see the pictures, but most lasers sold for home use
are safe, its often people pointing them at drivers and pilots that causes
issues. I can well recall in the 80s at a Cliff concert lots of lasers were
aimed just above the heads of the audience to make the dry Ice smoke look
more weird for devil Woman, and several of us stood up and got eyefulls of
blue green laser light and though it was obviously momentarily dazzling it
did no harm.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"Davidm" wrote in message
...
Went to a friends barbeque last night and they had two of these in the
garden, one pointing up at rear house wall (including windows), and
another up to a tree at the end of the garden. Looked amazing.

http://www.outdoordecordirect.com/artifact/2336252/

(American site, but available in UK via Amazon and others).

Are these safe and legal, eg. if you happen to look at one from a few
metres away, and what about aircraft if it pointing upwards, given all
the recent problems with handheld lasers around airports?

It's a tiltable garden light of the peg it in the soil variety and costs 42 dollars (out of stock.) No idea how much they are when they have them in.

So how much does the jewellery involved cost or have they managed to refine quartz crystals to do them with?

On 14/08/2016 21:59, Weatherlawyer wrote:


It's a tiltable garden light of the peg it in the soil variety and costs 42 dollars (out of stock.) No idea how much they are when they have them in.

Around the same cost when in stock, they are not the only place selling
them.


So how much does the jewellery involved cost or have they managed to refine quartz crystals to do them with?


You can buy the 5mW (red) laser diode modules for around 20 cents (US).
Chinese sellers can supply you with one each of red, blue and green 5mW
laser pointers for a total of around $7 US (including shipping) . These
will be the same type of component used in these projection lamps.


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Sunday, 14 August 2016 23:07:12 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 14/08/2016 21:59, Weatherlawyer wrote:


It's a tiltable garden light of the peg it in the soil variety and costs 42 dollars (out of stock.) No idea how much they are when they have them in.

Around the same cost when in stock, they are not the only place selling
them.

Wow what a surprise.

So how much does the jewellery involved cost or have they managed to refine quartz crystals to do them with?


You can buy the 5mW (red) laser diode modules for around 20 cents (US).
Chinese sellers can supply you with one each of red, blue and green 5mW
laser pointers for a total of around $7 US (including shipping) . These
will be the same type of component used in these projection lamps.

I looked up some stuff about the crystals. I have no idea what they dope them with but presume it is a relatively simple electrical process that can be mass produced. I gathered that the gems required for blinding people are some of the cheapest.

I dare say that most superpowers are already stocked with such things, the average US Marine squad seem to have one for fighting naughty Transformers with. I am surprised that they hadn't found out about such things before they came here having wiped out biological life forms on their home planet but what do you expect from sentient machines? Eh?